(Topic ID: 298998)

CCr ~ Cactus Canyon Remake Hype Thread ~ Lock is lit.. and so am I!

By Concretehardt

2 years ago


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  • 6,647 posts
  • 619 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Pizza-Bob
  • Topic is favorited by 210 Pinsiders

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“Are you in on CCr”

  • Yes I’m in on a classic edition 52 votes
    8%
  • Yes I’m in on a special edition 117 votes
    18%
  • Yes I’m in on a limited edition 308 votes
    46%
  • Not interested.. I’m out on this one! 187 votes
    28%

(664 votes)

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#2701 2 years ago
Quoted from P1nhead:

That is truly awesome. No wonder they have great playfields!

CGC has the the best build all round. LOVE my GNR CE but playfield issues are keeping me away from future releases for now. My MBr LE has been flawless, I have done NOTHING to it out of the box since day one, for about 3 years now. A huge factor in deciding about this new title - since there’s not much help or parts availability where I’m from and every little problem can take weeks to sort out especially during COVID with shipping times and prices.

11
#2702 2 years ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

What about American? They announced a 300 run LE for Legends of Valhalla, when that sold too quickly they decided to almost double the number.

I had my deposit in an a LOV Deluxe within 30 minutes of the launch. I was super excited to get the game and support the project/company. After they flip flopped, and increased the numbers, I dropped my order. Now there are deluxe editions available for purchase all over the place. AP played that one wrong.

I’ll never say never, because a game may come along I just have to have, but I’ll most likely never order an AP Deluxe edition now. Why would I? Half the reason to order it, is because it’s exclusive and rare. If they can just change something after announcement, I can’t trust them.

The same holds true here with CGC. If they end up offering up the toppers to SE owners, that’s totally their choice and they have every right to do it. Will I scramble to buy the next LE though? Most likely not. Why would I?

After pulling this card, they may sell out of the next LE, sure. But most likely just if they launch in the next year or so. Once the pinball supply picks back up, and you can go buy all sorts of different NIB games because they’re finally in stock, people may rethink their CGC LE purchase if there isn’t anything really exclusive about it. I certainly will.

People are looking at things right now in this little crazy window of time where everything sells out instantly. This isn’t normal. This will change. As a company, you need to keep this in mind. A customer’s perception or your company and perception of the exclusiveness of an LE is incredibly important.

#2703 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Going by the posts on here, I'm not alone in my understanding that the topper was exclusive to the LE. My comments about integrity were based on that understanding. If it's not exclusive, I'll just pick up an se on the used market later as the LE isn't different in almost any way without the topper. If anything, it appears that the marketing was confusing for many.

And the rest of us still haven't seen that """ EXCLUSIVE""" word used. There is only a had full of LE buyers complaining.

10
#2704 2 years ago
Quoted from seenev:

It doesn't really matter what the next CGC game is. I know I won't be interested, because the two times I've tried buying a CGC game before have been incredibly frustrating, and never for a good reason. If you want to play the LE game, then best of luck. You'll get a lot of interest that way, but you lose those of us who don't care about numbers and just want the features. I'm not just talking about a topper but the entire package.

I don't understand this as getting an LE was SUPER EASY by just contacting PPS when game was announced.

#2705 2 years ago

Some feedback for CGC:
I put a deposit down on an SE because the LE was sold out. (I’m in Australia and all SE are also sold out).
I may buy a topper if they’re sold separately but my main concern would be that the new upcoming code would still be playable on the SE.

-2
#2706 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

This is not true for 99% of ppl. If you keep things rare, people want them more. That's why this is a blessing for cgc. If they keep doing this, they keep making stupid money.

This is just silly stupid. Why would people who love pinball be bothered by others beeing able to enjoy it on the same terms.

Dont let rich and egoistic assholes ruin the hobby.

The companies who has a great product and want to see pinball prosper, shouldn´t limit the availability of their products, just to cater to speculators wanting to make money.
Parasites makes people sick, and that goes for pinball too.

10
#2707 2 years ago

I think most people are missing the point with their arguments regarding the topper. The marketing materials clearly said it was included with the “Limited Edition only”. If they change their mind, it’s because hindsight is 20-20. It has nothing to do with flippers or value or excluding SE buyers. It has to do with what they said they would do.

Think about it in other industries. If I quoted a fee for a work project and found out after the fact I could have charged more, do I go back to the client and say - Forget my original fee quote, I’m now expecting to get paid some greater dollar amount based on facts I learned after the fact? No. You live with it and stay true to your word and make adjustments next time. It’s just good business. I think the real question here is just the difference between right and wrong and nothing else.

#2708 2 years ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

The companies who has a great product and want to see pinball prosper, shouldn´t limit the availability of their products, just to cater to speculators wanting to make money.
Parasites makes people sick, and that goes for pinball too.

Then they shouldn’t have designated it as “Limited” ( look that word up ) . That’s the only reason people pony up months in advance for a game they’ve never played . If it was unlimited production people would hold their money until game is ready to ship and can actually be purchased . I’m fine either way but when a company sets the terms they need to stick by it as this is information used by consumers to part with their dollars .

#2709 2 years ago

Double post

20
#2710 2 years ago

What a bunch of whiny self entitled babies.

Unless your looking to flip an LE, what is the problem? If you wanted the LE and got an LE because that is the model you wanted awesome!

Same thing was argued for years over a possible TRON vault with lighted ramps, I had 2 TRON LEs and I was all for a vault with lighted ramps. It wouldn’t make me enjoy my LEs any less.

First world problems regarding an inessential toy we should all remember we are lucky enough to be to afford.

#2711 2 years ago
Quoted from mkintaiwan:

Some feedback for CGC:
I put a deposit down on an SE because the LE was sold out. (I’m in Australia and all SE are also sold out).
I may buy a topper if they’re sold separately but my main concern would be that the new upcoming code would still be playable on the SE.

No still a few SE lift but we had to buy the same amount to get the LE, I am sure Toppers will come as an extra, as there isn't enough LE in todays market

#2712 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

No still a few SE lift but we had to buy the same amount to get the LE, I am sure Toppers will come as an extra, as there isn't enough LE in todays market

In Aus did you also have to buy 1 x SE for every LE you wanted? Same rule here in the U.K.

#2713 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I don’t disagree. I just don’t think they deliberately worded the text to be misleading. Someone probably cut and pasted from the AFM page as a template and didn’t clean things up. A mistake, not a deliberate intent to deceive.
As for Day 1, I’m sure CGC wants a do-over on the reveal more than anyone. Maybe Ryan was exhausted or wasn’t prepared or was flustered by the projection glitches, or a last-minute decision was responsible (though I hope the video wasn’t supposed to be the entire presentation).

There is no ambiguity here, the wording is exactly the same for CCr LE as it was for AFMr LE. To say their intent was to sell the topper separately on either machine is simply false.

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12
#2714 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

What a bunch of whiny self entitled babies.
Unless your looking to flip an LE, what is the problem? If you wanted the LE and got an LE because that is the model you wanted awesome!
Same thing was argued for years over a possible TRON vault with lighted ramps, I had 2 TRON LEs and I was all for a vault with lighted ramps. It wouldn’t make me enjoy my LEs any less.
First world problems regarding an inessential toy we should all remember we are lucky enough to be to afford.

Your logic applies to those that are getting an SE and whining about not getting a topper in exactly the same way.

#2715 2 years ago

im out Prices have risen too much now - decided to go for a Deadpool Pro

#2716 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

What a bunch of whiny self entitled babies.

Are you referring to the LE or SE buyers?

#2717 2 years ago
Quoted from P1nhead:

So they have their own mill? Amazing!

https://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

Old but some good pics.

17
#2718 2 years ago

First comment: I have no stake in this game.

Do I think toppergate is ridiculous and blown out of proportion - yes.

Are the babies who are crying relentlessly about how unfair it is that they may sell the topper for SE buyers sad and pathetic - yes. I still feel the main motivation is how much profit they can flip the game for in the future versus the love of the game. There will still be some "limited" features to the LE. Price the topper at $1000, and the value proposition is still there (since you get powder coat, apron, shaker, warranty, etc. with the LE)

Does CGC have a loophole based on the wording on the website - yes. It doesn't say anything about the topper being exclusive to LEs only, just that it is only included with the LE.

Should CGC offer the topper to SE buyers - no. As much as the whiners are annoying me, I think based on past business practices (with the topper not being offered for AFM or MB), there is a precedent that it is only meant for LEs. CGC should stick with that logic for this release and re-evaluate for future releases.

I will probably get some downvotes for this post, but I don't care since it is rare for me, lol.

#2719 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

What a bunch of whiny self entitled babies.
Unless your looking to flip an LE, what is the problem? If you wanted the LE and got an LE because that is the model you wanted awesome!
Same thing was argued for years over a possible TRON vault with lighted ramps, I had 2 TRON LEs and I was all for a vault with lighted ramps. It wouldn’t make me enjoy my LEs any less.
First world problems regarding an inessential toy we should all remember we are lucky enough to be to afford.

Lucky? How about I busted my ass through two decades to be in a position to toss around money like this. I'm not lucky. I'm not fortunate. I'm a hard worker. I keep the economy flowing and pump the velocity of money. I keep many, many people in gainful employment. I pay nearly half of my personal income in taxes and nearly vomit seeing how much the businesses are taxed. Not lucky by any stretch (unless you define luck as the intersection of preparation and opportunity, you might have me on that one).

#2720 2 years ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

Then they shouldn’t have designated it as “Limited” ( look that word up ) . That’s the only reason people pony up months in advance for a game they’ve never played . If it was unlimited production people would hold their money until game is ready to ship and can actually be purchased . I’m fine either way but when a company sets the terms they need to stick by it as this is information used by consumers to part with their dollars .

1. Totally agree. Having the best version of something people want and a good product at that limited, is stupid and was part of my point. I´ve never argued they should back out of a crap buisness model, just pointed out that it is crap.

2. Having a customer/company model where you require people to pay before they know the product and then limit the numbers made, is only a good strategy if you have a crap product. If you have a great product the only ones benefiting are a few who take part of the money, without contributing to pinball in any way. It´s stupid.

#2721 2 years ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

Then they shouldn’t have designated it as “Limited” ( look that word up ) .

What makes it a limited edition is more than just the topper. It is numbered 1-1250. Plus:

POWDER COATING LEGS/RAILS/LD BAR
BIGGER WARRANTY
INTERIOR ART BLADES
WOOD ARCH
TRAIN TRACKS
MINE CART
SHAKER MOTOR
LE SERIAL NUMBER

Even if you take a SE and add the topper, powder coated the legs/rails/lockdown bar, add the art blades plus some of the playfield stuff, you still have a SE that might look like a LE but it is not a numbered limited edition.

Stern premiums have the same playfield and plays just like a LE but the artwork, the glass backglass and being a numbered edition is what makes it a LE.

#2722 2 years ago
Quoted from P1nhead:

Lucky? How about I busted my ass through two decades to be in a position to toss around money like this. I'm not lucky. I'm not fortunate. I'm a hard worker. I keep the economy flowing and pump the velocity of money. I keep many, many people in gainful employment. I pay nearly half of my personal income in taxes and nearly vomit seeing how much the businesses are taxed. Not lucky by any stretch (unless you define luck as the intersection of preparation and opportunity, you might have me on that one).

Your still lucky to be in the position your in, life throws many people curve balls, I agree hard work puts a lot of us in this position, I’ve worked 3 jobs when I have had to now just the 2. But we are still lucky and should be greatful we haven’t kicked the bucket yet or had some other life altering curve ball thrown our way that we can bitch about 10k pinball purchases.

#2723 2 years ago
Quoted from jchristian11:

Your logic applies to those that are getting an SE and whining about not getting a topper in exactly the same way.

Correct, which is why I gave your post a thumbs up! Anyone bitching about a 8-9k purchase missing or needing an exclusive piece of plastic to sit on it needs to get their shit together.

Quoted from Krupps4:

Are you referring to the LE or SE buyers?

Both! There’s really no need for all the continued and repetitive bitching over a topper of all things!

-8
#2724 2 years ago

CGC are dirtbags for changing the topper from limited edition only to now everyone can get it

#2725 2 years ago
Quoted from Myles32:

CGC are dirtbags for changing the topper from limited edition only to now everyone can get it

Has it been officially confirmed now? Source?

-3
#2726 2 years ago

I dont see the problem with this if its true. Why would not you offer it to everyone? seems ludicrous not too. Your LE might have other features unique to it, a topper has never been one of these features, specially when talking Bally/Williams class of pins - back in the day toppers were standard - and should not be unique to a LE model.

#2727 2 years ago

Toppergate Plot twist?
F4E23881-DC77-4F76-B659-73207FBCB24A (resized).jpegF4E23881-DC77-4F76-B659-73207FBCB24A (resized).jpeg

#2728 2 years ago

In my WTB thread:

Machine - Wanted
Wanted! - “WTB: Cactus Canyon Remake Limited Edition aka “CCR LE” At MSRP $9250. If you have one for sale as a distributor or a spot available please contact me via PM, Thanks!”
2021-11-01
Long Island, NY
Wanted
Archived after: 250 days
Viewed: 3347 times
Status: Not sold

Quoted from foxtj24:

I paid over msrp at a dealer on the day of the release.

Isn’t going over MSRP from a distributor frowned upon by CGC Doug Duba ?

#2729 2 years ago

Ultimately why does one of us disapprove of another getting the game/features they want?

Genuine question to LE owners how will a SE topper effect your enjoyment of your LE? It certainly won’t effect long term value as there will always be those who simply want the LE version.

jake35 Gotfrogs I assume your LE buyers? would be interested to hear your takes on it fellas.

#2730 2 years ago

“your” = indicates possession
“you’re” = you are

Go ahead - call me a “Grammar Nazi”, but some of you idiots are KILLING me.

11
#2731 2 years ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

This is just silly stupid. Why would people who love pinball be bothered by others beeing able to enjoy it on the same terms.
Dont let rich and egoistic assholes ruin the hobby.
The companies who has a great product and want to see pinball prosper, shouldn´t limit the availability of their products, just to cater to speculators wanting to make money.
Parasites makes people sick, and that goes for pinball too.

I’m sorry but you are coming off a tad sanctimonious.

Not everyone who is drawn to an LE is a speculator/flipper. Why do you think these pinball manufacturers offer LE versions? They are marketed directly to those collector types who value a product that is special/unique/exclusive. They are profiting from those buyers. Is every person who values exclusivity an egoistic asshole? Maybe a little bit but the manufacturers count on them.

It sounds like your argument should be with the manufacturers to outlaw the LE model, just sell unlimited premiums and standards.

Full disclosure: I am in on an LE. I think it is a fantastic overall package and I would purchase it again even if they offer the topper to everyone. Yet I do have a little bit of collector in me and will be mildly disappointed if such is the case. And yet when CVrLe is revealed I will probably try to get on the list anyway.

#2732 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Your LE might have other features unique to it, a topper has never been one of these features

It has been and continues to be on CGC's AFMr and MBr.

#2733 2 years ago

Me So Horny

#2734 2 years ago
Quoted from Only_Pinball:

It has been and continues to be on CGC's AFMr and MBr.

Not on the MMr. You could buy the topper for $599.

#2735 2 years ago
Quoted from Tommy-dog:

Not on the MMr. You could buy the topper for $599.

Thats why I didnt put MMr in my comment. As been mentioned, like a million times here, MMr is different as the topper was not available when the game first came out. The toppers were with AFMr and MBr and thats why they cant be bought separately.

-3
#2736 2 years ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

I think most people are missing the point with their arguments regarding the topper. The marketing materials clearly said it was included with the “Limited Edition only”. If they change their mind, it’s because hindsight is 20-20. It has nothing to do with flippers or value or excluding SE buyers. It has to do with what they said they would do.
Think about it in other industries. If I quoted a fee for a work project and found out after the fact I could have charged more, do I go back to the client and say - Forget my original fee quote, I’m now expecting to get paid some greater dollar amount based on facts I learned after the fact? No. You live with it and stay true to your word and make adjustments next time. It’s just good business. I think the real question here is just the difference between right and wrong and nothing else.

Then you have never had a contractor come in and fix ANYTHING in your house. They ALWAYS change the bid after ripping open the wall and finding out its more then they expected. You have never taken you car to the mechanic either then. Just got mine back with an extra $300 on the bill. Bad tie rod end to go along with the bad ball joint. Things change as new information comes to light. A new mode or code exclusive to the topper is what is causing the "players" trouble. Collectors don't get it because they have their pretty toy sitting and never even turn it on.

All of the collectors are right. CGC has never put a topper up for sale (MMr excluded as they tied it to the original print runs of MMr). They have also never added a game play feature to said topper/game. That is what this entire grumble is coming down to. No one except flippers and investors want to keep this exclusive, players and pinball fans just want the game. The SAME game no matter what CCr they play!

#2737 2 years ago
Quoted from Tallon:

Then you have never had a contractor come in and fix ANYTHING in your house. They ALWAYS change the bid after ripping open the wall and finding out its more then they expected. You have never taken you car to the mechanic either then

Your examples are poor and really not applicable. There is a difference between an estimate and final bid. Plus, I’m sure there is language in any contract with a contractor that says if they find mold in the walls or something the price will change. Anyway, what you are referring to are estimates, which are subject to change. So, for example, if CGC said they estimates the price of a pin to be $8,000 then that price is subject to change. The only language I saw from CGC was - Limited Edition only. It didn’t say subject to change or anything like that. If it did, that would be more along the lines of an estimate.

10
#2738 2 years ago

Hey, here's an idea. Let's all argue about it some more. That will fix everything.

Has anyone here ever heard the phrase "agree to disagree"? Well, that's where we are now. No one here is going to change anyone's mind. In a day or so, CGC will make their decision and everyone can decide how they want to deal with that decision. Until then, there's really nothing to say that hasn't been repeated 10x over already.

#2739 2 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

I’m sorry but you are coming off a tad sanctimonious.
Not everyone who is drawn to an LE is a speculator/flipper. Why do you think these pinball manufacturers offer LE versions? They are marketed directly to those collector types who value a product that is special/unique/exclusive. They are profiting from those buyers. Is every person who values exclusivity an egoistic asshole? Maybe a little bit but the manufacturers count on them.
It sounds like your argument should be with the manufacturers to outlaw the LE model, just sell unlimited premiums and standards.
Full disclosure: I am in on an LE. I think it is a fantastic overall package and I would purchase it again even if they offer the topper to everyone. Yet I do have a little bit of collector in me and will be mildly disappointed if such is the case. And yet when CVrLe is revealed I will probably try to get on the list anyway.

1. No most are drawn to the LE, cause for cgc they consider it the best deal. It´s definately so for AFMRLE for example. i cant see the reason thoose who love and collect games, would mind others having them aswell, that is unless you want to feel better or make money of them.

2. As i´ve said before the LE-buisness model is only good for the company if the game is crap. If it´s a great game The LE model is only good for the people seeking to make money beeing the lucky few.

3. Call it the complete model or whatever, the better the game, the more they sell, the more people get to play and own the best version of a great game. Pinball wins.

Also to broaden the discussion. For how long will a "limited" number beyond 1000 copies in the long run be collectable due to scarcity?
That´s a lot of games.
I think the current choice of LE´s will mostly financially benfit fomo early bird flippers.

#2740 2 years ago
Quoted from Gribbs:

“your” = indicates possession
“you’re” = you are
Go ahead - call me a “Grammar Nazi”, but some of you idiots are KILLING me.

“Your” a grammar Nazi

#2741 2 years ago
Quoted from mkintaiwan:

Some feedback for CGC:
I put a deposit down on an SE because the LE was sold out. (I’m in Australia and all SE are also sold out).
I may buy a topper if they’re sold separately but my main concern would be that the new upcoming code would still be playable on the SE.

If you're talking about the Lyman code. Yes, it'll work on both versions but it is not free and will likely include new hardware to install with it. Probably as a DRM measure.

If you're talking about the topper mode, which is essential a glorified video mode, that depends on if they release the topper for SE owners.

If you're talking about the 'fixed' code that is built around the original code but includes modes that were never implemented by Bally as the game was left unfinished, that is included with the game when you get it. The game will also include the original code if you want to switch to it.

-3
#2742 2 years ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

Your examples are poor and really not applicable. There is a difference between an estimate and final bid. Plus, I’m sure there is language in any contract with a contractor that says if they find mold in the walls or something the price will change. Anyway, what you are referring to are estimates, which are subject to change. So, for example, if CGC said they estimates the price of a pin to be $8,000 then that price is subject to change. The only language I saw from CGC was - Limited Edition only. It didn’t say subject to change or anything like that. If it did, that would be more along the lines of an estimate.

OOOOO this will be fun. Then what does MSRP stand for? Its and estimated price you should be paying from the distributor. Did you pay in full for your game or did you put a deposit down like say $1000 to a contractor to get them to come in?

The argument works if your not taking a myopic look at the pinball world. You know, in a vacuum like "he who shall not be named" keep reiterating. If/when something changes, I'm sure you will turn back you game and never do business again with CGC as they are evil right? No chance if you do actually get mad that you turn around and flip for a profit?

I don't really care either way, I more pissed ab out not having a Classic edition that I can pit on route. Some of us actually use our games for what they are intended and route them. 8k or 9.25k are a bit much to try and recoup over the life of the game. The people I deal with couldn't care less if its a LE, SE, or CE. they just want a good game experience at a $1 at a time

#2743 2 years ago

Seeing pics of that AFM topper in this thread…..alot of people are saying the CCR topper is best ever, but I’d go with AFM. I wish CGC would come up with some approach where all their toppers were available, even as some king of lesser variant. I’d take non mechanical version of the AFM.

#2744 2 years ago
Quoted from JSC:

Seeing pics of that AFM topper in this thread…..alot of people are saying the CCR topper is best ever, but I’d go with AFM. I wish CGC would come up with some approach where all their toppers were available, even as some king of lesser variant. I’d take non mechanical version of the AFM.

I had a AFMRLE....and turned off the topper movement after a day (and then owned it for 3 more years). The motor on it was way too loud.

#2745 2 years ago
Quoted from Tallon:

Then what does MSRP stand for?

My example using price is merely an example to illustrate the concept of an estimate. We are talking about toppers. With that being said, if you look at the thread, Doug from CGC said he will be policing distributors pricing practices, so I believe he intends the price to be the price. Besides, take a look at the attached pic. Where does it say MSRP?

3C5524AF-9450-407B-A71F-4091CA0825F1 (resized).png3C5524AF-9450-407B-A71F-4091CA0825F1 (resized).png
#2746 2 years ago
Quoted from Tallon:

The people I deal with could care less if its a LE, SE, or CE.

Couldn't. Saying they could care less implies they do, in fact, care to some degree.

#2747 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I do not see that at all. I feel it is clear that making the topper available for other editions was undecided. I have watched all the streams, reveals etc,etc. When I read the stuff I think it reads that you get the topper with the LE (only). If you want it for other versions you have to pay for it. Some people are making confusion because they want the topper only available for their LE as it makes their LE worth more money. (in their view)
It does not bother me either way. I think toppers should be available for every version.

Than clearly u like the Stern model. Its very simple .... CGC wasn't transparent at launch, and in the past releases they've never sold LE upgrades to SE buyers (MMR doesn't count)....if they decide to do so (we should know in 24 hours now) than so be it, but I guarantee u it will change how people look at their next release. My guess is they already know they will sell the topper yet haven't revealed it yet (my guess is it will retail for $999+)....I'm all about profit and there is no doubt selling a piece of plastic that they've already designed and engineered and probably cost them less than $100 for a grand is good business.

#2748 2 years ago
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:

Couldn't. Saying they could care less implies they do, in fact, care to some degree.

Thank you....Couldn't

#2749 2 years ago

when are SEs being released if ordered now

#2750 2 years ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

My example using price is merely an example to illustrate the concept of an estimate. We are talking about toppers. With that being said, if you look at the thread, Doug from CGC said he will be policing distributors pricing practices, so I believe he intends the price to be the price. Besides, take a look at the attached pic. Where does it say MSRP?
[quoted image]

Ok, then let me cut and paste then other listing for the other games as proof they have to make a CE edition.

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