MMR Royal Edition is a case in point. There was a market for another premium run and they took advantage.
Given how badly CGC apparently underestimated demand I suspect we'll see the Rootin' Tootin' Wild West Edition in another year or two.
MMR Royal Edition is a case in point. There was a market for another premium run and they took advantage.
Given how badly CGC apparently underestimated demand I suspect we'll see the Rootin' Tootin' Wild West Edition in another year or two.
Quoted from boustrophedonic:MMR Royal Edition is a case in point. There was a market for another premium run and they took advantage.
Given how badly CGC apparently underestimated demand I suspect we'll see the Rootin' Tootin' Wild West Edition in another year or two.
I think it’ll cause some Lootin’ & Shootin’ if you’ve already got a “CCR LE”.
Quoted from JohnTTwo:Fortunately the manufacturers understand LE buyers mentality and know the numbers would plummet if they made 3,000 LE’s
I would be out. Look at Halloween and how not limiting Collectors edition has hampered resale and buyers backing out.
Easy - make 1250 and charge $15k. Sprinkle in some additional bling. Or make 2000 and charge $10k. I'm not concerned about resale value. Pinballs are intended to generate fun and CGC makes an outstanding product that does just that. I don't have to worry about the clearcoat crinkling before my eyes or the cabinet splitting.
Quoted from mrclean:I think it’ll cause some Lootin’ & Shootin’ if you’ve already got a “CCR LE”.
LOL. Somehow I think the outrage will subside quickly... I've got an original MMR LE and the Royal Edition hasn't stopped me from lining up for other CGC games. Pretty sure folks that bought EHOH aren't boycotting Stern over the new run either. Just add a little bling and jack up the price.
Quoted from CGC-Ryan:Please be aware of fraudulent websites and scams.
Should you have any questions regarding if a dealer is legitimate, please feel free to contact me directly.
I will be more than happy to verify any dealer before you do business with them.
Thank you all for the responses on Cactus Canyon Remake.
Can you explain why there is a “limited” edition? Why not just produce a loaded model and a stripped down version?
I know that’s been the norm in the past, but it seems odd to a newbie that awesome features like an interactive topper are only available to a few lucky buyers.
Quoted from JohnTTwo:Fortunately the manufacturers understand LE buyers mentality and know the numbers would plummet if they made 3,000 LE’s
I would be out. Look at Halloween and how not limiting Collectors edition has hampered resale and buyers backing out.
First of all look at JJP’s GNR LE, they announced 5000 LE’s and have increased prices twice. Market is holding pretty strong on that title, I don’t see it “plummeting” anytime soon. Halloween buyers backed out for a few reasons the playfield debacle which Spooky later rectified, the code is improving literally daily. The flippers got scared because people had an opportunity to get one by basically showing a $40 support to Spooky which was a ticket to virtually guarantee you a spot. Also when it comes down to payment people get cold feet since Spooky is a smaller company and takes them 18 months to build. Within that timeframe you have choice of literally 10-12 other titles. The amount of the game title manufacturers make shouldn’t be perceived as value / increasing investment. If it’s a good playing machine it will ultimately increase in value or who cares you’ll own a great game that you can play. Look at when Bally / Williams made most titles back in the 90’s it wasn’t tons of different versions of the game, just one title some of which lets use Indiana Jones as an example. They produced 12,716 of them. That’s still a top 10 game, & drastically increased in value, do you know why, it’s simply a great game.
Quoted from Doug_Duba:Many people have made buying decisions based on the number of LEs being 1250; unfortunately, we cannot increase the number at this point.
Yep, can't change that now.
Sell the topper as an upgrade, let the LE owners have the wooden apron exclusive, and next time use the 24 hour order window idea, or make 5k LEs like JJP
Quoted from Pinless:Can you explain why there is a “limited” edition? Why not just produce a loaded model and a stripped down version?
I know that’s been the norm in the past, but it seems odd to a newbie that awesome features like an interactive topper are only available to a few lucky buyers.
FOMO sells games. If it was "endless" there is no FOMO.
Quoted from metallik:Yep, can't change that now.
Sell the topper as an upgrade, let the LE owners have the wooden apron exclusive, and next time use the 24 hour order window idea, or make 5k LEs like JJP
I hope it isn't the same topper... If they decide to sell the same topper I would be willing to drop to a SE, the apron and railroad isn't enough to warrant the LE then.
Quoted from metallik:What if the topper was $1K?
I'd buy the SE model, and spend the $1k for the topper!! As would many here I'm sure
Quoted from Matt1724:I thought the same thing when I felt I missed out on spooky. Now i see Halloween spots “for sale” daily.
CC might not be the same frequency, but it will happen.
Not even in the same league. I mean seriously you could get two games farther apart in every aspect.
People were dumping their spots minutes after the game play video came out.
If CGC sold the topper to SE owners, this CCr forum (and all it's issue with the distro's) would end now... the limited LE issues is all about the topper!!
Quoted from metallik:Yep, can't change that now.
Sell the topper as an upgrade, let the LE owners have the wooden apron exclusive, and next time use the 24 hour order window idea, or make 5k LEs like JJP
People keep saying this, JJP’s “CE” is the CGC “LE” apples and oranges here.
Quoted from kempsuk:If CGC sold the topper to SE owners, this CCr forum (and all it's issue with the distro's) would end now... the limited LE issues is all about the topper!!
Everyone wants a manufacturer to be successful and to make money, but I'm still scratching my head on some of the decisions here.
1250 sold out units @ $9250 = $11,562,500
Joe stated an overwhelming 500 inquires he couldn't appease. So possibly an additional $4,625,000 in sales left hanging out there. (could be much more or a bit less)
Are LE buyers more concerned about LE features or LE exclusivity? ( maybe a poll is needed)
The demand is very strong on this one and IMO, I'm not sure that more than 500 buyers would back out if production numbers jumped up.
Quoted from northvibe:FOMO sells games. If it was "endless" there is no FOMO.
FOMO is just a highly over used word. Pushed by flippers, those that are in the lock for getting an LE and those that got lucky to get one in hopes to keep there games value higher then what they paid. Sure there are probably a few people buying because of that but I would guess for every FOMO sale there are a dozen other people wanting one just to get that version of the game.
Quoted from Pinless:Can you explain why there is a “limited” edition? Why not just produce a loaded model and a stripped down version?
I know that’s been the norm in the past, but it seems odd to a newbie that awesome features like an interactive topper are only available to a few lucky buyers.
They don't seem to care much about flippers and price gouging with their approach, despite what they say. The whole LE business model is what creates those problems.
At least I wasn't really, really wanting this game. I wanted to buy it, but mainly because of the LE improvements. I can live without it, but I'm going to have a lower opinion of CGC going forward.
Quoted from seenev:They don't seem to care much about flippers and price gouging with their approach, despite what they say. The whole LE business model is what creates those problems.
At least I wasn't really, really wanting this game. I wanted to buy it, but mainly because of the LE improvements. I can live without it, but I'm going to have a lower opinion of CGC going forward.
I had a lower opinion of Stern after the video tape submission B.S., but few care enough to stop buying.
Quoted from boustrophedonic:LOL. Somehow I think the outrage will subside quickly... I've got an original MMR LE and the Royal Edition hasn't stopped me from lining up for other CGC games. Pretty sure folks that bought EHOH aren't boycotting Stern over the new run either. Just add a little bling and jack up the price.
I agree, and I wouldn't live my life in constant fear of missing out on a new edition of the game. MM is just flat out a great pin; the extra bling is nice to look at I guess but doesn't change the gameplay.
No games have been delivered yet, so it wouldn’t be totally outrageous to increase the number. If anybody gets upset, refund their deposit. For every person that backs out, there will be 3 more to take their place.
Personally, I like the timed order option. Allow orders of the LE for a certain period of time, then cut it off. The demand sets the quantity. It’s obviously too late for this release, but nobody would feel like they were cheated, and it’s still limited.
Quoted from boustrophedonic:MMR Royal Edition is a case in point. There was a market for another premium run and they took advantage.
Given how badly CGC apparently underestimated demand I suspect we'll see the Rootin' Tootin' Wild West Edition in another year or two.
That’s a bit different, though, since it was the first remake. The bigger display didn’t exist when MM was released. They could have only sold the displays separately, but it made sense to do a production run with the new display (and add the topper to bring it in line with AFM/MB). I expect any future runs of MM/AFM/MB to be special editions. Given the current market, CGC would be throwing money away producing the classic editions.
This isn't the have nots versus the haves over food, resources, or other scarcity... this is the haves and haves clamoring after an artificially limited (a good thing) luxury item with the best topper ever.
Again, this is a luxury item. You don't need it. Life will go on without it. You will be okay. Just look in the mirror and repeat after me "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!"
(Easy for me to say, we have an LE on order)
stuart-smalley-good-enough.gifQuoted from Vino:What is clear is Joe at Pinballstar was spot on regarding demand, manufacturers, and consumers.
Maybe, but the way he handled the “High Noon” free for all on Sunday with the known amount available that he knew he had was rather disappointing.
Quoted from mrclean:Maybe, but the way he handled the “High Noon” free for all on Sunday with the known amount available that he knew he had was rather disappointing.
I’m curious what you think would be a better way to handle. He played no favorites and gave everyone notice…I don’t think any other distributor did that. Do you think he should have favored repeat customers? Had an interest list? Send out a random email with no heads up? There was no solution that would appease the demand. People missing out in the LE isn’t in Joe, he didn’t set the number available and I’m sure he would have gladly taken a larger allocation.
Quoted from mrclean:Maybe, but the way he handled the “High Noon” free for all on Sunday with the known amount available that he knew he had was rather disappointing.
How so? I don't mind how other dealers handled it, but the transparency is nice when others have been opaque.
Quoted from arcademojo:FOMO is just a highly over used word. Pushed by flippers, those that are in the lock for getting an LE and those that got lucky to get one in hopes to keep there games value higher then what they paid. Sure there are probably a few people buying because of that but I would guess for every FOMO sale there are a dozen other people wanting one just to get that version of the game.
Eh, there will be people who knew jerk to buy, then won’t pony up when full payment is due, people that want the game and people that want to flip. Always will be. I however want the game and the topper is what I wanted….
Quoted from JSC:I’m curious what you think would be a better way to handle. He played no favorites and gave everyone notice…I don’t think any other distributor did that. Do you think he should have favored repeat customers? Had an interest list? There was no solution that would appease the demand.
He had a known two games (or presumably a very very low number according to this very thread) to sell which apparently people who clicked on it prior to 11:59am couldn’t get one. So yeah I’d say he led people on to believe they could get one, I’d say he disappointed more people during that email blast than he satisfied. Joe himself claimed (again within this thread) that he “received over 500 emails” for the game. I understand it was a “fair” way to handle his remaining allocation, he led too many people on.
Quoted from Hop721:“…they don’t like me BECAUSE I got an LE”[quoted image]
Everyone thumb this up because I can only do it once.
Pinball has exploded and as stated the # of LEs should be increased accordingly. The games are already stupid expensive so most are going to want all the features for a the extra $. This artificially low LE production is only helping the flippers. There are very few that on this one that are going to go with the lower model without the extra items like the topper.
Quoted from mrclean:He had a known two games to sell which apparently people who clicked on it prior to 11:59am couldn’t get one. So yeah I’d say he led people on to believe they could get one, I’d say he disappointed more people during that email blast than he satisfied.
His email said “BE READY ! THEY WILL SELL OUT EXTREMELY QUICKLY.” Not sure what else you wanted him to do. You say he disappointed people, but have no suggestion how he could do it better. There are things CGC could have done, but not sure what the distributors could change. I am pretty sure dealers aren’t allowed to disclose quantities they get from CGC. I haven’t seen any distributor scalping at over MSRP. If I had a suggestion for future, it would be to list on a website instead of email…people get email at different times depending on how their inbox refreshes. Although websites come with their own issues like bots and server crashes (the later hit Spooky hard with Halloween). This is a supply vs demand issue, not something a distributor can solve.
My two cents regarding the LE situation is this, make 1 game. Make it the best game you can offer to the market. Build as many as demand dictates, and sell the hell out of em. In this market, why bother with a lower trim level.
Says the guy who actually ordered an SE
Quoted from JSC:His email said “BE READY ! THEY WILL SELL OUT EXTREMELY QUICKLY.” Not sure what else you wanted him to do. You say he disappointed people, but have no suggestion how he could do it better. There are things CGC could have done, but not sure what the distributors could change. I haven’t seen any scalping at over MSRP. If I had a suggestion for future, it would be to list on a website instead of email…people get email at different times depending on how their inbox refreshes.
I know what the email said, I got it… I purchased from Joe in the past, and while he’s a great guy he didn’t handle it right IMO. I felt he simply gave the impression of you’ve got a chance… not you have virtually no chance. As many have stated within this thread loyalty didn’t matter with this one. The demand was simply way higher than what CGC anticipated, they left money on the table. Until or unless in the future they decide to and likely will release another version of the game which includes the topper or it will be some elements from the LE etc. I was one of the 500 disappointed customers from Joe’s email blast. We’re you one of the 2 that got lucky ?! Did you obtain an LE spot from Joe or elsewhere ? Either way I’m still seeking a CCR LE.
Link to comments by Doug on topper as an option and the additional code package:
===
Related to the conversation in the last few posts, I think manufacturers should different consider options moving forward for future games but once features and number of units are announced - don’t change them!
I don’t like when Stern messes around with number of LEs regardless of if I have/want the game or not. If you start doing 5000 LEs or whatever the “it’s not really limited any more” number is, don’t put on numbers and change the name of the trim line to something other than “limited”. And while there are still limited production games I’m for anything manufacturers and distributors can do to make flipping painful.
I like the timed release suggested above for new releases too but then you’ll have people bitching the window isn’t long enough.
Quoted from Medic:So if we got that email does it mean we are guaranteed a CC LE?
That is correct.
Quoted from AstonEnthusiast:So, I'm hearing there's a chance for another edition that includes the LE features?
Quoted from seenev:They don't seem to care much about flippers and price gouging with their approach, despite what they say. The whole LE business model is what creates those problems.
Not caring and not getting it right are two different things. We need to rethink the way we handle the next release.
I really do appreciate everyone’s suggestions today.
Quoted from Mike_J:I had a lower opinion of Stern after the video tape submission B.S., but few care enough to stop buying.
What's this about?
Quoted from pldubya43:What's this about?
You had to submit a video to Stern to be considered for the Batman SLE. Then Stern upset many by increasing the number of units.
Quoted from northvibe:FOMO sells games. If it was "endless" there is no FOMO.
I hope it isn't the same topper... If they decide to sell the same topper I would be willing to drop to a SE, the apron and railroad isn't enough to warrant the LE then.
I agree if the topper can be purchased separately the SE would definitely be the way to go on this game! I don’t think the wooden apron would justify stepping up to an LE. In a way I hope they do this, then the pressure is off all the LE guys throwing money down. Everyone can sit back and wait or see what Lyman has in store for the game with no fear of missing out.
Quoted from Doug_Duba:I really do appreciate everyone’s suggestions today.
Thanks for listening
The game shoots like butter and looks great. I think you'll have a big hit with the expanded code/feature release.
Quoted from Concretehardt:I agree if the topper can be purchased separately the SE would definitely be the way to go on this game! I don’t think the wooden apron would justify stepping up to an LE. In a way I hope they do this, then the pressure is off all the LE guys throwing money down. Everyone can sit back and wait or see what Lyman has in store for the game with no fear of missing out.
The topper is the primary reason for getting the LE. If everyone could get that version of the topper it wouldn’t be limited. (See also Stern Batman 66 LE. 240 units and only available if you bought an LE)
As for the future optional code and game upgrade package, there should be no FOMO. CGC said it would be available on both models.
Quoted from metallik:Thanks for listening
The game shoots like butter and looks great. I think you'll have a big hit with the expanded code/feature release.
I'd like to hear some info straight from CGC regarding this possible future release of extra new improved code for a fee. I'm not a fan of that idea. We're already paying near 10k for the machine. Code updates should be gratis.
What wer
Quoted from Doug_Duba:Not caring and not getting it right are two different things. We need to rethink the way we handle the next release.
I really do appreciate everyone’s suggestions today.
It is almost unsolvable. If you increase the # of LE's to the point that it is relatively "common" you lose a pretty big marketing kick. If you raise the prices significantly you price a bunch of people out of the market for the product. If you hold a lottery, you risk screwing over the people who were loyal and bought the previous LE's and are now unable to complete their collection. If you base it strictly off of loyalty it means that most newbies are out of luck in getting one. It seems like some sort of combination of all of them might work the best.
Also... at some point, you have to assume the market will slow down a bit.
Regardless, my hat is off to you... you made a fantastic looking game at a relatively reasonable price (although it did take a weeee bit longer than most of us expected )
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