(Topic ID: 34641)

CCM Sound Stage Double Bonus Problems

By bigbadford91

11 years ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Pin-it
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2012_619.jpg
relays.png
out_hole_relay.png
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#1 11 years ago

I am having trouble with my double bonus. It works when it wants to. Once you hit targets E & F and the ball lands in the kick out hole it lights the double bonus on the playing field and energizes the relay for double bonus. When it does work the relay stays energized the entire time the score is added to the player and then is de-energized when the ball is ejected for the next player or ball. What would cause the double bonus relay to de-energize before the ball is ejected?

Post edited by bigbadford91 : tm

#2 11 years ago

I have uploaded a complete schematic.

#3 11 years ago

ok so i would check the hold switch on the double bonus relay.

It also looks like there is a switch on the outhole relay that are in the circuit

--Jeff

#4 11 years ago

I am having a tough time understanding the schematics. Are the hold switches on the relay themselves? On the double bonus and outhole relay there is a switch that if I manually break the contact the relay de-energizes the double bonus. If I jump the hold switch it still de-energizes when the ball drains. Could I be losing power to the relay? Could the score motor cause the problem?
// Error: Image 62341 not found //

#5 11 years ago

This is the way i read it.

To close the double bonus relay

Either E F and hole are closed (we know this works)
or
outhole switch and double bounus switch are closed Make sure both of these switches are cleaned and gapped correctly

The hold switches are on the relay itself

CCM.jpgCCM.jpg

#6 11 years ago

This is what I found. The double bonus relay is energized when e & f are closed and the kick-out switch is closed. The double bonus relay can be de-energized by breaking the hold switches (grey-blue wire) on either the double bonus or outhole relay. It appears that the outhole relay is energizing to early and breaking the hold switch. Unless the grey-blue wire from the a-f targets are supposed to complete the circuit to keep the double bonus relay energized.

out_hole_relay.pngout_hole_relay.png

#7 11 years ago

Ok so i dont think it is the grey blue as theres no power in that circuit from the Green main wire.

In my mind that means it either outhole or Double Bonus. I doubt its that double bonus as thats holding itself in unless its dirty and breaking on some kind of vibration

That brings me to the outhole realy. I dont think it would be circuit one as the outhole switch itself is in it. Altho the only way circuit two happens is if it gets energized by 1.

Is the outhole switch somehow closing on vibration (too close gapping)?

I would try to manually recreate the problem now that we have the parts identified.

so if you take the glass off hit A-F energize the double bonus. Can you hit the slings and make it happen or A B C D E etc?

interesting problem

--Jeff

#8 11 years ago

Yeah its an interesting problem. I have been banned from working on it till after New Years eve. We are having company over tomorrow and the wife is afraid that I will break it. I agree that its a problem with the outhole relay. Finding it should be fun. I think I'm going to video tape it and try to identify what the differences are from when it works from when it doesn't.

#9 11 years ago

Looking at the the contact switch code for the outhole relay it mentions open and closed when the relay is not energized. What I don't understand is the triple contact it mentions. Does that mean when the relay is not energized it is making triple contact and when it is energized it is making contact only on one?

relays.pngrelays.png

#10 11 years ago

Im pretty sure it means a make break switch.

check the actual outhole switch on the playfield also as it has to close for the outhole relay to energize

#11 11 years ago

I will report my findings tomorrow. I need to pull the relay assembly off the board because one on the screws holding the leaf stack has backed off totally. Maybe tightening that will fix problem?

#12 11 years ago

As per your request... Hope this helps.

- jeff

2012_619.jpg2012_619.jpg

#13 11 years ago

Thanks Jeff! Looking at yours it seems the triple switch in the top of the pic is adjusted wrong. It looks like it will never make contact with the very top switch. I went through and cleaned the outhole relay switches. I also found on the tilt relay that a normally closed switch wasn't making good contact. So now the machine is counting bonus and double bonus as it should!!! Is there anyone that sells the screws needed for the leaf switches? I have two that are lose but are too short to grab the tinnerman nut.

#14 11 years ago

Cool. Glad your machine works proper now.

#16 11 years ago

Yes it is. Thanks for your help!

#17 11 years ago
Quoted from bigbadford91:

I have two that are lose but are too short to grab the tinnerman nut.

Call PBR I believe they carry them or if possible remove some of the bakelite spacers if close enough to catch the threads but not more than 2 or if it throws it way outta whack for it to operate properly.

Cool it works properly now

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