(Topic ID: 158344)

Ccm Moon Shot

By Crjfan

8 years ago


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  • 29 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Crjfan
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#1 8 years ago

Hi!

I need some help with a 69 Chicago Coin Moon Shot pinball. Can sombody add some pics of the wiring of the transformer or a diagram? I guess some of the wires attached to the wrong transformer lugs. I tried to plug in the machine, but it blows the main line fuse.

cheers

Niki

#2 8 years ago

Most likely you would have to buy a schematic for the machine, because I didn't see any free Moon Shot schematics on the Web... If you don't want to buy a schematic, another option is to find a similar machine with a schematic...

IPDB has a copy of a 1968 CCM Stage Coach, which is a 4-player machine. It might help you figure out the transformer wiring on a Moon Shot...

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2336/Chicago_Coin_1968_Stage_Coach_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf

#3 8 years ago

I'll check it out. Here are some pics of my problem

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#4 8 years ago

A simple thing to check is to see if the short is somewhere in the playfield, backbox or coin door. Just unplug all the Jones plugs and then power on the machine. If the fuse doesn't blow, then you know there's a problem somewhere in the playfield, backbox or coin door.

From your photos it shows one of the incoming power wires is attached to the 115 volt lug. If you're in Austria, you would be using 220-230 volts. Or are you attaching the power cord to a step down power adapter?

Also, it looks like someone added a wire to the transformer. That green and yellow wire with the plastic insulation doesn't look original.

Since we're kind of playing the guessing game here, please be extremely careful. I know 220-230 volts can be very nasty if you get shocked. Make sure the machine is unplugged from any power source when you are working on the transformer...

#5 8 years ago

I'm pretty sure I have schematics at my studio for this game. I'll try to remember to bring them home to scan tonight. I'm not 100% sure I'm going tonight but if I do I can send you a scan tomorrow.

#6 8 years ago

Thanks guys! I'll be careful!

#7 8 years ago

Another thing I just noticed from the photos is the transformer is not bolted down to the wood base. Not sure if that is related to the problem, but there are some nuts missing from the transformer hold down bolts...

#8 8 years ago

The yellow green wire is an added ground wire. You are right, the nuts are missing... The transformer seems to be build for use with different voltages (export outside US). On the primary winding side, were the wall power comes in, are diffent lugs for different voltages. So I guess I just need the 220V lug and a common for the high voltage side. I got confused about the 115V lug, because I though the pin needs 115V for the reset bank solenoid like the old Gottlieb reset banks.....

#9 8 years ago

The maximum output of the transformer should be 50 volts. I think these CCM machines had about 25 volts output. Illumination circuit should be around 6 volts. You can check the output voltage of the transformer by using a multi-meter...

#10 8 years ago

Hi Crjfan
I stronly advice: Wait for MrArt2u's schema. Pic-1 in post-1, on the bottom: probably yellow-green is good (true ground for safety reason) - I ask are "brown" (phase) and "blue (returning line) correct ? Unplug Your pin then follow the wires in the pin -> "phase" must lead to "Fuse" and "Main Power-Switch".
Look at my JPG - it is from the german forum - an Gtb Orbit - when the Adj-plug is set for "110 VAC" then there are TWO identical wirings (primary side) of 110 VAC mounted PARALLEL - when the Adj-plug is set for 220 VAC -> the (two) wirings are "in series" - and in the middle we can grab 110 VAC ...
Look in ipdb -> "Cinema": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=513 -> schema -> transformer --- maybe Your pin has the same stuff mounted (?).
Again - lets wait, if MrArt2u has a schema for Your pin. Greetings Rolf

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#11 8 years ago

Hi!

Okay, getting really interesting here! Ich compared the CCM transformer to my other pins. The hardware of the early 60s CCM machines are pretty much the same like Gottlieb. But the transformer does look differt compared to all my other pins.

Can sombody tell me what the "start" lug is for on the primary side on my photos above?

Hi Rolf, yes, brown is phase and I traced it down to the main line fuse. So far so good!

#12 8 years ago

Hi Crjfan
I refer to ipdb-schema "Cinema" -> at G-50, Lug-1 --- I believe this is Your "Start"-Lug.
a question (would be nice if you'd answer "Yes" --- Post-3, pic-3: Is there a connecting wire from Lug-115 to lug-220 ? If "Yes": Then You'd have the "Gottlieb-Orbit" solution.

220 VAc is dangerous - lets wait for MrArt2u's schema (?). Greetings Rolf

#13 8 years ago

It looks like you really need the schematics so here's a quick shot of the transformer area. I'll scan the rest tomorrow.

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#14 8 years ago

Wow, that really compressed the image. Let's see if this one looks better. If not it'll have to wait until tomorrow when I scan them. And theses schematics are HUGE!

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#15 8 years ago

Thx for the Scans! I guess the secondary winding is ok. I got the same colour like in the schematics, orange and green (depending On the selection of the playfield Action adj jack) blue (6v Lightshow) and
Green (common). On the primary winding side I got the 220v hot wire which comes from the wall and goes through the Main line fuse. I guess the "Start" Lug is the high voltage common. And I need also 115v for the bank reset.

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#16 8 years ago

Sorry, don't care about the cut yellow wire on the photo.... The yellow line is the neutral line comming from the power cord. That also shown in the schematics.

#17 8 years ago

Ok, got it running! Lights up, scoremotor is running, reels doing a reset to 0. Not bad for now! Now I need to figure out, were I can get 115V for the reset of the bank....

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from Crjfan:

Ok, got it running! Lights up, scoremotor is running, reels doing a reset to 0. Not bad for now! Now I need to figure out, were I can get 115V for the reset of the bank....

Is that what the "START" lug is for? Or do you mean where does that go within the machine?

#19 8 years ago

Hi Crjfan
in my post-12 I did ask a question: Post-3, pic-3: Is there a connecting wire from Lug-115 to Lug-220 ? If "Yes": Then You'd have the "Gottlieb-Orbit" solution.

In the german forum I learned: My "Mittel-Abgriff***" is a "Spannungs-Teiler***" widely used in Hobby-electronics (radios, amplifiers etc.)

American pinsiders: Here we have a "European problem" - the manufacturers made pins for domestic market - and wanted to sell also to europe using as many parts in both versions (110 VAC, domestic and 220 VAC, european) -> instead of using 110-VAC coils for Bank-resetting and using 220-VAC coils for Bank-resetting: They made transformers with "to grab current in the middle ov 220 VAC (therefore 110 VAC) - a Mittel-Abgriff***" - Voltage-Divider (here: split in halfs) means Spannungs-Teiler***.

Crjfan: be careful "not to put 220 VAC on a 110 VAC transformer. Greetings Rolf

#20 8 years ago

The main problem was that the wires they used for the european market have different colors. All the schematics showed a 115v Setup. In Austria you get 220v out of the wall. Old gottlieb pins and as I learned now, also pre 1970s ccm machines need 115v for the reset bank. So in the US that is 1 circuit. In Europe you need an additional 115v Output on your transformer. Anyway, with your help and the schematics I got it Running.

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#21 8 years ago

Hi Rolf!

I guess it is not "Mittelabgriff". I compared it to my Gottlieb and Bally transformer. It looks completely different. The transformer has also a different partnumber compared to the CCM Cinema (your link)...

#22 8 years ago

I guess I missed it in one of the post, but what did you do to stop the main fuse from blowing? Did you just cut the yellow wire from the 115 volt lug on the input side of the transformer?

#23 8 years ago

Glad to hear it's working! And very glad to hear I wont have to scan these huge schematics! It would have been at least a dozen tabloid sized scans pieced together. For some reason Chicago Coin went LARGE with their schematics.

#24 8 years ago

All wires on the primary winding seemed to be mixed up. Neutral line and hot wire were in some way soldered together onto the 115V lug. So I cut all wires from the transformer and from the schematics from MrArt2u I learned yellow=neutral. I traced my hot wire back through the main fuse and figured out that my 220V hot wire is red/blue... at the beginning there were wires soldered on all the lugs of the primary winding(post #15) and they were connected to a kind of voltage selector with jones plugs.

Anyway, now the solution seems to be simple: You supply the transformer with a hot wire and a common on the primary.

Thanks for all your help!

#25 8 years ago

Hey it looks pretty cool next to Sea Ray. it looks like the same lady on a different adventure.

#26 8 years ago

Christian Marche did the artwork on both pins!

#27 8 years ago

She's a babe. Pointy elbows and all!

#28 8 years ago

Hi pinsiders
funny - ipdb.org has some "German version" schemas, Bally-Hoo: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=151 -> schema, page-5: The wiring on the transformer - they did not draw a line to connect lug-3 and lug-5 - but on top of page-2: lug-3 and lug-5 and a jumper connecting and the text: "Verbinde (!)" means "connect". The text "orange" and 240 Volt and 220 Volt are unclear. This is pretty much the Gottlieb solution: TWO identical primary windings for 110 Volt - hooked-up "parallel" for 110 VAC <-> hooked-up "in series" for 220 VAC.
Too bad (for warming up the dicussion on "Mittelabgriff"): NO coils operate by 110 VAC ...

The same with "Capersville": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=431

And "Bazaar": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=201 -> schema -> plenty of stuff operated on 110 VAC - I am generous and let the line from the main power-plug end on Transformer-Lug-7 instead of transformer-lug-9 and (again sneaking-in a jumper drawn) Transformer-Lug3 connected with Lug-5 --- and I can satisfy the 110 VAC folks and the 220 VAC folks and I have my "Mittel-Abgriff" (in the 220 VAC-wiring). Greetings Rolf

#29 8 years ago

Hi Rolf!

Thanks for the info! I never went into detail concerning the transformer. Depending on the game I only change to high-tap. I learned a few new things with the Moon Shot!

Cheers!

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