CC - ramp lip curling - solenoids at mine and saloon not firing

I did a flipper rebuild yesterday and when tested the machine today, it seems that the solenoids at the mine and the saloon are not firing in gameplay. Also there is no ball search, the ball just seems to be sitting there in the mechanisms. When I go to a menu and exit, the solenoids fire and the ball gets back to the playfield.

Also I have some ramp lip curling. Is the fix to wax the clearcoated playfield in front of the ramp and put some mylar to cover the lip or should I buy a new ramp lip? What is the best way forward to fix the issue?

And finally:
a) that large round protector that is next to the bad guy - where to get it - it seems to be sold out
b) anyone with a NOS CC keep out sign for sale - please send me a PM.

Thank you for any help!

Ramp_Lip (resized).jpg

#2 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

Pinside member

Here's a picture of the backbox, if it helps to diagnose the solenoid problem. Its a CCC, with a p-roc board.

Backbox_ccc (resized).JPG

#3 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

First thing first... are you running Continued or factory software? I am running Continued but my factory software was 1.4 I am not sure that is the last version or not. If you are on factory software make sure you have the latest version. If your ball goes into a VUK and does not come out and the game does not search for it, then you must assume that the VUK switch or opto is made and the game sees it. Check that VUK solenoid and or solder connections. I would also put the game in switch edge test and check those VUK switches that the ball wont come out of. Then go to solenoid test and fire those VUKs with the test. It sounds to me that you caused an issue with the solenoid power string for those VUK solenoid. Go back and check your work (follow your footsteps)
The ramp flap issue can be resolved by removing the ramp and (Gently) bending the flap backward. Not sure on what you mean by "sold out" Broken perhaps? Post pics.

#4 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

OK gotcha Continued.

#5 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

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I would just retrace your steps on your repair and run those tests.

#6 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

Here is a pic of mine. I am using the Lepy amp for sound. Much better that the original sound board.

image (resized).jpg

#7 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

Pinside member

Quoted from whthrs166:
First thing first... are you running Continued or factory software? I am running Continued but my factory software was 1.4 I am not sure that is the last version or not. If you are on factory software make sure you have the latest version. If your ball goes into a VUK and does not come out and the game does not search for it, then you must assume that the VUK switch or opto is made and the game sees it. Check that VUK solenoid and or solder connections. I would also put the game in switch edge test and check those VUK switches that the ball wont come out of. Then go to solenoid test and fire those VUKs with the test. It sounds to me that you caused an issue with the solenoid power string for those VUK solenoid. Go back and check your work (follow your footsteps)
The ramp flap issue can be resolved by removing the ramp and (Gently) bending the flap backward. Not sure on what you mean by "sold out" Broken perhaps? Post pics.

I tested and the optos at mine and saloon do not seem to be working. Solenoids fire ok in test mode.
I also noticed that the beer mug switch is not registering for some reason now.

I went back the steps I did, but I noticed nothing unusual. But then I remembered that I dropped the metal coil holder from the left flipper onto this board - the electricity was off, but could it have had a hit there (?) I removed and reconnected the connectors onto this board, but it did not help.

With the round protector I am referring to this round plastic next to the bad guy. It is larger than usual and I have only this tiny round protector there now.

Thank you for the tip on ramp flap. I will have to do it, once I get the pin in order.

Opto_board (resized).JPG

Round_protector (resized).JPG

#8 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

Pinside member

Quoted from whthrs166:
Here is a pic of mine. I am using the Lepy amp for sound. Much better that the original sound board.

Yes, I have a Lepy in use as well, but I put mine into the cabinet.

#9 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

OK based on your latest post I suspect the opto board. That is a 10 switch opto board. The reason I suspect it is that you have more than one opto/switch issue all at once. It seems really remote that you could have damaged it with the drop with the game powered down but I suppose there could have been power still in the caps. Those boards are sensitive. I have seen them damage with power surges. I had a power surge effect mine and cause the flipper coils to stick on and almost fry the coils. Make sure you reseat all of those plugs on that board.

#10 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

10 swich opto board. They are available now if you determine its this board. If you happen to have a MM, it has one of these. You could swap it out to test.

EBD28CF6-0A76-478E-9586-25528A5680F5 (resized).jpeg

#11 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

Pinside member

Quoted from whthrs166:
10 swich opto board. They are available now if you determine its this board. If you happen to have a MM, it has one of these. You could swap it out to test.

Oh, great, I have a MM, so I can try it out!

#12 6 years ago

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whthrs166

Pinside member

$70 at pinballreplacementparts.com Nice fellow that runs that operation. He is trying to reproduce pinball boards of all kinds. I bought a spare for my games. I like having spare boards for my W/B games.

#13 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

Be careful, make sure you don't have any ESD especially if your walkin around on carpet. Touch a ground once awhile to unload that ESD. Make sure your connections are correct before you power up.

#14 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

Also if the board from MM works and fixes the issues take the CC board and put it into MM. I have found that it will work just fine and it turns out it was just bad connections or vodo electronic weirdness (for lack of a better term). This happened to me with those two games.

#15 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

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Today I exchanged the opto 10 card, but sadly, it seems to have been ok, since the situation did not get any better with the other opto card.

#16 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

OK so now it sounds like you might have a string of switches that are not working. Enter switch edge test. Look at the diagram for the switches. (pay particular attention to the switches for the VUKs that don't work) Look to see where they are in the diagram. Is it a row or column. If you see two or more switches that are not working together, then it is most like something wrong with those switches. (diodes, wires, bad solder joint) The switch matrix diagram will show what color wires are for the string of switches in each row and column. Be particularly suspect to the first switch in a row or column (with the problem). Find that switch and look for broke wire, pinched wire, bent diode to ground, short, ect... I am now thinking that you must have disturbed something when you were in there.

#17 6 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,268

OP
Quoted from Nepi23:
I tested and the optos at mine and saloon do not seem to be working. Solenoids fire ok in test mode.
I also noticed that the beer mug switch is not registering for some reason now.

CC swmx.jpg

Check switches #44, #47, #48 as they are in the same column.
Could be a broken wire under playfield or blown column driver on the p-roc

#18 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

check your green and white wire.

#19 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

Pinside member

Thank you!

These errors are reported by CCC now:
16 L outlane
57 r bonus lane
44 top r quickdraw
46 beer mug
48 jet exit
85 l ramp enter

But I think CCC reports switches also based that they have not been used for a while, so I do not know how accurate this list is.

On p-roc there is now a group of 4-5 leds burning where 2 seem to switching places and another group of 3 leds burning. I have to
check would this indicate a burned p-roc. Otherwise it seems that green and white wire is not doing ok somewhere...

#20 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member

I would not get too carried away. Start with that green and white wire. follow it from the mine vuk. Can't believe the PRoc would have an issue this early in the game.

#21 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

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Thanks, I'll check the wire and get back to you! In the morning I tested the fuses in the backbox and reseated all the connectors there, but it did not help.

#22 6 years ago

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Nepi23

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Just to check, since there are many wires with white and green - this is the correct one to follow? It is a real jungle of wires under there. I guess it is best to break the cable ties to try to follow the wire.

Also I found a red lead that seems almost broken, but I guess it is not related to this problem?

White_green (resized).JPG

BrokenWire (resized).JPG

#23 6 years ago

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whthrs166

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Yes that looks like it. Remember that the wire is a string and the switch diagram shows where the wire goes to (each switch) . It looks like the problem should be at the mine popper somewhere. The next stop is the Saloon popper. Also look at any and all diodes in that string for broken lead, bad solder, bent to short ect.

#24 6 years ago

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Nepi23

Pinside member

Hmm - I found the broken wire at the bad guy/saloon opto, but its not the correct color wire... I will solder this in and see, does it make any difference to the other reported switch-problems.

Opto_broken_wire (resized).JPG

#25 6 years ago

MKV

Nepi23

Pinside member

That was it! It seems that even though I had inspected earlier, I did not notice that the orange wire is loose.
Thank you very much again for your help whthrs166 and zaza!!

I noticed that I had for some reason lost vision for depth - made soldering a bit more tricky!

#26 6 years ago

SDS

whthrs166

Pinside member