(Topic ID: 145174)

CC Beatniks Alternating relay problem

By DropTarget

8 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by DropTarget
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#1 8 years ago

Hi,

My CC (CDI) Beatniks has an alternating relay that, well doesn't alternate.

It is not being activated. yes, I know that I should get the schematic, but in the mean time, does anyone know how that circuit MAY work on a CC. I'm not sure what is supposed to trigger the relay, is it the 1 point, 10 pt, relay? Something else?

any thoughts?

TIA

#2 8 years ago

Maybe manually activate different things on pf and you might then see the relay moving?

#3 8 years ago

Hi Droptarget
often there is a little stepper inside the Number-Match-Unit. Sometimes The No-Match-Unit turns a wiper for the Numbers to match - AND another wiper giving alternating (on / off) current to the Alternate-Relay (pulling / not pulling).

Great, ipdb.org has a schema "Stage Coach", http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2336 -> I must make a "righthandside Mouseclick" onto Schematic Diagram (continuous), then choose "Save Target as ..." -> make a Copy down onto my computer.

The schema says "Bottom Lane Alternate Relay" is shown at schema-A-17. And there I see: The Player-Unit and the "10-Point-Score-Reel of Player in Play" gives current to the Alternate-Relay (on / off).
Check for "broken-off" wire at Player-Unit, at Alternate-Relay. Maybe You must look at the Score-Reels (10 Points) on all players (?).
Greetings Rolf

#4 8 years ago

Thanks guys,

I already tried all pf switches...no luck.

It's funny that you mention the Match unit, I'm guessing that like GTB's it should step with each hit of the one's relay, and also energize the alternate relay.m however, mine does not move or light the match numbers either. Also (reading further down your message) the 10's score reel is missing a coil.

I'll look closer.

THX

#5 8 years ago

Update.

There was a wiper not making contact on the 10's score reel, now to get a coil for that sucker. However the 0-9 stepper still doesn't move or light the match numbers. One step at a time. Someone really messed this game up. Burnt coils, switches bent way out of whack, missing parts grease on all of the steppers......arggg

#6 8 years ago

Hi Droptarget
Your posts 4 and 5 make me ask:
Did You find the fault (Alternate Relay) ?
I do not see a connectedness between a "wiper not making contact" and a missing coil (?).
"No Match Unit not working" - a new (not mentioned) problem ?
Have You considered buying a schema ? (burnt coils, switches bent, missing parts, units not working -> for basic "Start-up problems" we can use a "CC-Schema of that time (Stage Coach)", When its getting into "specific playfield features": A schema would be veryvery helpful, time saving).

I had a look in the schema "Stage Coach" - didn't find a Match-Feature.
The flyer in ipdb.org says "Beatnik has a No Match Unit". In the schema "Cinema" I see: 3 Playfield Rollover Buttons make the unit step -> Beatniks schema ?

The way the No-Match-Unit is stepped ? - worth a discussion in EM-Hang-Out (?).

So far: "Cinema uses playfield switches = Type AAA" (Do I not see it correct ?)

In "Schema Bally Flip-Flop" I have seen: ON SCORE MOTOR: Cam 12 is NOT built "180 degree identical". A Turn of the Score-Motor (WMS and Bally) is 180 degree -> On Flip-Flop: Every second turn a switch is closed ...TYP BBB"

Looking at the schema Gtb "Surf Champ": I believe: "The Match Unit is stepped ONLY at Start-up through pulses of the Z1-Reset-Relay (thats also random) Typ CCC".

We are used to have a "Switch mounted on lowest-digit-Relay (1 Point, more moden pins: 10 Points) Typ DDD"

I believe: "I have seen pins with "a Switch on lowest-digit-Relay AND on secondlowest Relay, Typ EEE".

More Types ? Wiring in Beatniks ? Buying a schema ?

Greetings Rolf

#7 8 years ago

Hi Droptarget
in my post-6 there is a error / fault: No Match Type BBB does NOT exist. I mixed up " activating No Match unit" <-> "activating Alternate Relay". Truth is: "Bally Flip-Flop Cam-12" does activate the Alternate Relay. Greetings Rolf

#8 8 years ago

Rolf,

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I'm guessing two issues. 1) the alternate relay not working. There was a wiper not making contact on the 10's score reel, which is also missing a coil. As soon as I adjusted the wiper, the alternate relay started working, although I have to rotate the reel manually. (I've since replaced it and it now works, ok worked...I've been adjusting the 9's switch so that the 100's does keep rolling over, I've got that working, but in the process the alternate relay stopped working. Have I mentioned that I hate working on CC's (beggar's can't be choosers....got the game at a good price, I think it's going to be a descent player to.)

2) What I thought is the match unit, it's labeled 0-9 Unit does not rotate, The coil is good. There are 10 lights on the BG, numbered 0-9, I'm guessing that the game does indeed match, but I could be incorrect. Either way, that stepper isn't being activated.

#9 8 years ago

Hi Droptarget
You got it cheap, You are not loaded with bread - as long as we are on "basic stuff": We can use information from ipdb.org. When You have problems with game-specific playfield-features: A schema would be helpful.

Great, the Alternate Relay worked - not so great: again "not working". I must ask - when adjusting the 9's switches: did You bend something (other) has a wire broken-off somewhere ? (DID YOU ADJUST SWITCHES ?)

No-Match Unit: The Flyer in ipdb says : YES.
It does not work. I never had a look into a Chicago-Coin pin. I do not know, if CC-Pins let the No-Match Unit turn - EVEN when the feature is "toggled-off" ? Anyway, look and adjust to "On": The Jones plug, see Dolphin: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=699&picno=18684&zoom=1 - on the picture it is set "In/On". Wires soldered on ? plugs and sockets clean ?
By the way: Do You have it on 5 balls per play (I prefer) - or on 3 balls per play ?

When The No-Match-Adj-Switch is not in the Cabinet: look in the Backbox. Williams used on my Shangri-La a "switch to turn". If the switch is in the cabinet: There must BE wires from the switch up into the Backbox (for Score-Reels / Replay-Counter) - therefore: check ALL Jones Plugs connecting in-between Cabinet / Backbox (/ advised: Playfield).

ipdb has schema / manual for Dolphin - (almost) good for nothing. Lets look at Juke Box: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1324 -> look at "Parts Manual" -> page-30 -> Number "6" is the only switch I see, I suppose it is the "End-of-Stroke-Switch (to open the circuitry of the related Points-Relay). I do not see other switches. Number "1" is the Wiper Finger Assembly, on PAGE-36 I see a drawing of "Scoring Drum Assembly". I believe: I see 6 wiper fingers. YOU MUST BE the detectiv: When You sneak a thin piece of paper in between "Board" and wiperfinger (insulation): The finger can move / turn - BUT there is never a connection. Try on several / all fingers - Can You say "finger-alpha is for "9-pos-carry-over"" ? Other fingers are for ???
Are some "copper traces" on the board connected ? 1 and 3 and 5 and 7 and 9 (all together) ? This would give a hint for "used for Alternate Relay" ?

We might have to use Jumper-Wires for testing. We must KNOW the "color of (I believe) 30 Volt Power-Wire". Look at the bottom of ipdb-schema Stage Coach, the transformer: Transformer-Power-side -> wire-color-white-Green -> FUSE -> wire-WHITE IS THE POWER-WIRE WE WANT TO IDENTIFY. Does Your pin also have Wire-WHITE for "POWER". Look at "coils on relays" - most have on "one lug" at the coil a wire-color-WHITE soldered-on --- the other lug(s) have many different colors (wires soldered-on).
Can You find out and GARANTEE "POWER-WIRE HAS COLOR-???" (I hope for "White") ?

Please look for Color (Power-Wire) , Adj. switch(es), Jones Plugs, Score-Reel Wipers - and write about. Next steps depending on Your answers.
Greetings Rolf

#10 8 years ago

Rolf,

Thanks for all the leg work.

It turns out that there is a small Jones plug for the match unit in/out. It's in a fairly obscure location, next to the fuse holders by the tilt plumb bob.

There is another switch assembly on the Beatniks score reels that isn't shown on that diagram. It attaches to the top of the coil housing and has three switches on it they are either all open or all closed depending on the score reel position. CC must have used different types of reels.

Anyway, those issues are now fixed.....let's see what's next.

Thank you,
-W

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