Catacomb
Stern Electronics, 1981You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Quench.
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Quoted from Shapeshifter:Thanks - fuse looks blown! Strange in a way as confirms that the guy who sold me the game can't have even played the game - his loss I think.
I can't see exactly what type of fuse it is?
The under playfield fuse is a 1 amp Slow Blow fuse.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Where is the serial number?
Front of the cabinet on the lower left side. See here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/5#post-3577714
Quoted from Shapeshifter:However if I open coin door power automatically shuts off, so I can't do anything with the door open. Any ideas?
Is your game a European reimport that has a power switch on the door?
Quoted from Shapeshifter:My issue was a blown transistor......
Any idea where I get one of these?? Or a few really.
SE9302 transistors are long unobtainable - we now use TIP102 transistors for the solenoid driver board as cottonm4 suggested.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:So is it an off/on switch?
Yes. Those coin door power switches are annoying so they're one of the first things I remove if a game I buy has them.
You could probably cable tie something flat over it to keep the switch on if you want.
Quoted from cottonm4:Some European safety thing?
Yeah it started around 1980 from what I can tell.
The Stern Orbitor 1 and Bally Skateball schematics onwards list it as an Interlock Safety switch.
A Flash Gordon from South Africa I saw also had one.
Interlock_Stern (resized).jpg
Interlock_Black (resized).jpg
Quoted from Shapeshifter:I forget why it stops switch from working but useful stuff to know.
These Sterns/Ballys are designed to ignore stuck switches, otherwise they'd score endlessly and/or activate solenoids repeatedly.
Quoted from WarLokBlackOut:Does anyone of you guys know what the exact diameter of the ball in the back box is supposed to be?
See here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club#post-2401108
Quoted from vec-tor:I watched a Cyclopes sell at auction to a telephone bidder for $5200.00 not much surprises me.
Quoted from cottonm4:Vec-tor, how did you take what I said in post #691 about watching a Cyclopes sell for $5200.00 and make it look like Pinphila said it instead of me?
vec-tor quoted @Pinphila's quote of yours.
Quoted from hochiming:Could you please Follow the wire and tell me where it ends or connects.
The blue-white wire is solenoid power. I guess it will come from the cabinet at the rectifier board on connector J3 pin 13.
Is the other wire color red-white? If yes, it probably comes from the solenoid driver board at connector J2 pin 15 which is the backbox playfield enable.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Schematic should answer question but I can't read them!
Unfortunately clear details on this are not listed in the schematics :-/
Any chance you or someone else can comment on what the wire colors are at the solenoid driver board connector J2 pin 15 (left bottom most wire), and also the wire color at the rectifier board in the cabinet at J3 pin 13?
@cottonm4, thanks kindly for going into detail. You got hochiming up and running
Question, the red-yellow wire that connects to a red wire near the rectifier board, that red wire then goes to the right flipper button switch right? i.e. not back up to the playfield at the right flipper mech onto a second switch at the EOS switch stack?
One of these days I have to scan my Catacomb manual in high res and replace the poor quality one in IPDB. And maybe add clearer details on this to the schematics.
Quoted from cottonm4:I am going to have to cut several tie wraps so I can physically trace the R/Y wire properly. I did not understand why the R/Y color was not maintained at that connector and why it turned to red. I hope to be able to check this tonight. All I can say at this time is the R/Y wire turns into a red wire and travels to the right flipper. At the right flipper, there is another red wire that travels back toward the left flipper, but the left flipper has a R/Y wire attached. The puzzle is hidden inside those tie wraps.
That's ok, I don't want you cutting cable ties in your game.
The right flipper button has a red wire as Stern standard going to the solenoid driver board flipper relay - in Catacomb it likely also goes to the relay on the backbox playfiled via the thick red-yellow wire.
Looking at the left flipper button switch linked below, it's a double stack switch with a thin red-yellow wire that's used for advance in bagatelle mode.
https://images.pinside.com/9/b6/ed/9b6edcfa55a915accc90ff1310288a067f9ce684.jpg
The schematics lists the left flipper advance switch as being on the playfield instead of the cabinet flipper button.
Quoted from cottonm4:Recap: The Red/yellow wire at the bagatelle relay travels down into the play field harness. At a point near the rectifier board, the R/Y wire terminates into a connector with a Red wire on the other side. This red wire travels to the right flipper; From the right flipper, the Red wire goes back into the backbox and terminates at SDU J2-1. If I could draw this is would be >>>>bagatelle relay<<<<----Red/Yellow wire---connector---red wire---right flipper---red wire---SDU J2-1.
Still left to do is run the red/yellow wire from the left flipper. Somehow, I think this flipper R/Y wire has some way of connecting to the (previously referenced) R/Y wire at the bagatelle relay but I get no continuity from the left flipper to the relay.
Thankyou!
Is the right flipper button switch a single or double switch stack?
The red-yellow wire on the left flipper buttons second stacked switch should go to the tilt mech, start button and coin chute switches - ultimately it should come from the MPU board at J3 pin 2. What is the color of the other wire on that left flipper switch associated with the red-yelow wire? Is it just a yellow wire that goes to the MPU board at J3 pin 16?
That second stacked left flipper button switch should essentially be the advance switch for bagatelle mode and is part of the switch matrix.
Quoted from cottonm4:This entire bagatelle circuit needs its own complete breakout drawing page to show where everything is at.
Indeed.. Pity my Catacomb is deep in storage. If you're up for it, at some point pictures of the wire colors going to the bagatelle switches and lamps will help.
Will see if I can start scanning the manual/schematics this week.
Quoted from cottonm4:The coin door drawing calls for I-7 to be MPU A4-J3-16 to be (Y) yellow but mine is the O/R from 2nd stack from the left flipper wire.
TheLaw can you comment on the wire colors on your 2nd stacked left flipper button switch?
Quoted from cottonm4:Yes, this is the advance switch for bagatelle. I just have not been able to find it on the switch matrix. Can you point me to the correct matrix address, please? I see L. Flipper button at address STO A and I7 for an orange wire and a White /Red wire. I don't see any other Left flipper button addresses.
Yes, that "L. Flipper button" on the playfield switch matrix schematic is the bagatelle advance switch. It's either a schematic boo boo since the switch is in the cabinet not the playfield, or it was originally intended to be a 2nd stacked switch on the playfields left flipper mech EOS switch stack.
Quoted from TheLaw:I'm sorry I spaced doing this Quench orange red and blue red
Thanks!
I think you might have them installed the wrong way. The blue flipper switch wire should be wall side, the red-yellow bagatelle advance switch wire should be screw side.
i.e. unscrew the switch stack, remove the two screws and install them through the other side of the stack, flip the stack around and screw back in (hope that makes sense). This way your flipper activates first.
Anyone experiencing the background sounds changing volume on their Catacomb?
Working on someones Catacomb, the background volume changes during game play when any switch is hit. i.e. the background volume could be the same level as any switch sound effect. Hit any switch on the playfield and the scoring effect will play at normal volume but then when the background sound returns it could either be the same level as the scoring sound or half the volume level. Scoring sounds are always the same 'normal' volume level. Only the background sound level will sometimes play at half volume.
Have installed all factory boards and problem occurs.
Replace factory boards with new aftermarket boards one at a time and the problem persists - this includes Alltek solenoid driver board, Alltek MPU board, Weebly SB300 sound board, Alltek lamp driver board.
Have tried disconnecting the speech board, the lamp driver board, and the displays. Replaced the ribbon cable from the MPU to SB300, replaced the volume control. Problem persists.
Interestingly the problem with half volume is worse with the Alltek MPU board. Have tried a memory clear with no difference.
It is better with my factory MPU board using four EPROMs (background volume level is mostly at the higher 'normal' level).
Have tried a factory MPU board with RA22 and another factory MPU board with RA23 ROMs - doesn't resolve it.
Have tried some of the suggestions others have used with Meteor sound issues, i.e. using identical 5101 RAM chips (Philips) at U8 and U13 on the factory MPU board, replacing the four 2716 EPROMs with two 2732 EPROMs. No difference.
The background volume difference happens on the first two or three switch hits, at worst will take a dozen switch hits.
Anyone seen (heard) this?
Quoted from cottonm4:Only one last long shot item i could suggest is maybe something is wrong with the speaker. ???
Cheers, I think the owner also tried the speaker and volume control from another Stern with no luck.
It's only the background sounds that sometimes go to half volume. Weird..
Quoted from vec-tor:Should it be the sound board itself?
Happens with the original factory SB300 sound board and two aftermarket Weebly SB300 sound boards.
Quoted from Jr99svt:has the VSU been swapped out?
VSU-100 has been disconnected. No difference.
Quoted from Jr99svt:volume pot bad?
Tried a brand new 25k logarithmic pot and I think the owner also tried one from another Stern. No luck.
Thanks for the suggestions so far.
Only significant things not changed are transformer/rectifier board and wiring harness.
Quoted from Xtraball:Mine does the same as yours. This is the second Catacomb I’ve had and the first also did this. Could it be normal?
Thanks, that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of.
It's just like what happens in this video. We first noticed it with the game just sitting idle in game mode that the background sounds would intermittently drop volume - the owner noticed he could trigger it by hitting switches and scoring:
Quoted from bluespin:Did you install a new ribbon cable between the mpu and sound board?
It does have a new ribbon cable, but we did try an old one from another Stern.
Quoted from bluespin:Maybe it is part of the sound package like the wave in Seawitch and the sound in Quicksilver.
That's the question. cottonm4 has a Catacomb and in his reply he didn't hint at having seen this.
Quoted from Jr99svt:what are the voltages on the soundboard? do they hold steady when watched for a minute?
To be honest I only briefly checked the voltages but did so with my oscilloscope and didn't see any changes. Owner also said he measured them with no change.
Quoted from Jr99svt:have the MPU and driver board small harnesses been repinned? has the rectifier board be repinned and checked for cold solders?
I suspect those connectors in the head have not been repinned. I haven't looked at the rectifier board.
It smells of some sort of software timing issue not helped with the bad design of that J5 ribbon cable sitting on the CPU bus with no signal termination on the SB300 side. I wish I understood Sterns PIGS programming so I could experiment with the sound engine.
Quoted from vec-tor:????????? what does PIGS mean??????????
It's Sterns software interpreter language: "Pinball Interpreted Game System".
When my Catacomb comes out of storage next year it's something I'll look into because I want/hope to make the background sounds sound more like it does in PinMAME which is random vintage computer tones rather than random clicking noises. i.e. stopping the tones from being filtered.
Quoted from cottonm4:I have listened on the better set of speakers. I am not hearing anything different from mine. I don't know. May be I have been thinking it is a feature.
The background volume changes are very obvious in person - if you haven't noticed it on your game I guess it's not doing it.
Quoted from Jr99svt:it almost has to be a connection/wire issue.
That was the initial thought, but when all game and scoring sounds are normal volume level and only the background sounds sometimes drop in volume and can be manually triggered, typical connections issues seem unlikely.
Quoted from cottonm4:I know I wish I could make that "growling" sound go away.
Which effect is the growling sound?
Thanks all!
When I got my Catacomb, I couldn't stop repeating the monotone "Prisoner one escaping from Catacomb" voice. The historical significance that these early Sterns used the first speech processor chip manufactured isn't lost on me. I might be oldskool but I couldn't imagine having modern speech on these old games.
Quoted from cottonm4:I'm just trying to figure out why Drop D did not make the drawing.
One of many Stern errors on their schematics. Did you also notice the flipper coil at the right kickout hole on that diagram?
Solenoid Driver Board schematic has what you need.
Quoted from cottonm4:I tried the switch test. Nothing showed up.
Can you elaborate?
Did the number '0' show up in the ball in play display?
Or did another number came up on the player displays that didn't change when you pressed any of your non functioning switches?
Did any other switches respond with their switch number?
Quoted from cottonm4:I could press the self test switch and get the numbers running across showing the display lights all worked. But down in player #3 and the credit display I was getting garbage. I'll hook back up tomorrow and take a pic of the garbage I had. With the W/Y run disconnected the self test switch and the memory clear switch are working properly.
Sounds like you only ran burn-in-test mode, not switch test mode??
When you only disconnect that white-yellow wire from MPU J2, do the displays work correctly in test mode? If yes, the white-yellow wire has a short circuit (not open circuit) somewhere on the playfield/bagatelle.
Quoted from cottonm4:When I disconnected the W/Y wire from everything but the "C" drop target assembly, the "C" DT works perfectly, as does everything else. I think you are right with the short circuit. Now I have to find it.
I hooked everything back up so you can see what I get with pressing the self test switch. With the W/Y wire eliminated , all of this goes away.
The player 4 display is selected/activated by the exact same signal as the switch strobe #3 signal.
When a player display shows the same as the "credit/ball in play" display, it means that display select signal ala respective switch strobe signal is shorted to ground. So it's likely that switch strobe signal is shorted to one of the G.I lamps on the ground side.
Quoted from cottonm4:How do I trouble shoot this? Do I remove all of my GI bulbs one at a time until the issue goes away?
Nah, just look at all the switches with the white-yellow ST3 wire for anything shorting to it.
BTW have you confirmed if the issue is on the playfield or the bagatelle? i.e. the three bagatelle column "C" switches are also connected to that white-yellow wire signal *somewhere*. Maybe one of those bagatelle switches is the cause of the issue.
"Switch Strobe #3" is the expanded name of the "ST3" white-yellow switch wire you're working on. See the diagram below.
.
Quoted from cottonm4:While trying to figure out what was going on, I dropped screwdriver. Unfortunately the screwdriver made contact with a lug on the speaker and shorted out.
Can you guess/comment on what the screw driver shorted to what? A screw driver touching one speaker lug isn't shorting anything unless the screw driver also touched something else at the same time.
First, measure the voltage at TP2 on the SB-300 sound board. It should be 12 volts. If not suspect resistor R1 which is a 2 ohm, 1 watt resistor which you can test with your multi-meter.
If you get 12 volts at TP2, then the amp chip might be blown. It's the device at U1 which is a "TDA2002". It looks like a 5 legged transistor screwed to the heatsink. Measure the voltage on the output of the amplifier - easiest access point to the amplifier output is the + (positive) leg of capacitor C5.
The speech board gets complicated, you don't want to have damaged the speech processor chip since they are hard to get and expensive. Need to know more about what shorted.
Quoted from cottonm4:I thought I saw it hit the speaker lug and the edge of the magnet
Is ground connected to the speaker frame? If not, the magnet is connected to nothing so won't cause any short.
Quoted from cottonm4:I swapped out my sound board and got my sounds back.
Does your replacement SB-300 sound board support the speech board input? The SB-300 boards made before Flight 2000 don't and need to be modified with a wire on the back of the board.
Quoted from cottonm4:The best way I can answer that is there are two lugs on the speaker frame. Both look to be insulated from the frame.
You mean the normal two speaker wires connected to lugs? Every speaker will have those two lugs isolated from the frame.
I can't tell from your picture if there's a ground connection on the 4th speaker screw mount behind your playfield prop pipe. I don't see any ground wire connected to the other three speaker mount screws. Bally does ground the speaker frame, I don't have a Stern handy to look at.
Anyway, I'd find it a little odd that a very brief short across the two speaker lugs would blow the amplifier chip but I guess it depends if sound was playing at the time.
Quoted from cottonm4:But there were no notes as to why the wire needed to be there.
When the VSU-100 speech board was designed, Stern needed a way to connect its speech audio to the SB-300 sound boards audio mixer so you could hear speech. That jumper wire on the back of the SB-300 provides that interface.
Quoted from cottonm4:Stern also left Drop Target assembly "D" off of the blue print. I have added it back in red ink. All I can say is that I wish I were an artist.
Call me crazy but I just use good old Windows Paint Brush to copy'n'paste bits to reconstruct what's needed, and while I'm there clean up all the dirt spots:
Also fixed the right kickout coil that was shown as a flipper coil.
Quoted from vec-tor:O.K. Somebody needs to do some more "schematic cosmetics".
This should do for now:
Scanned my playfield schematic page in high res B&W.
Added numerous missing diodes in the switch matrix.
Added capacitors to the playfield switches listed with them in the manual.
Removed the Left Flipper Button switch and Tilt switches - these belong in the cabinet switch schematic.
Redrew most of the coil section and fixed the right kickout hole coil wire (thanks vec-tor and @cottonm4).
Changed the wire color for the "Drop Target Reset Bank A" coil from "R-B" to "R-BLU". The manual and SDB schematic show it this way. Correct me if it's actually wrong.
The playfield schematic has been updated in post #1055. See here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/22#post-5657141
Quoted from cottonm4:Should the diode high lighted in blue be removed as well?
All other schematics include the switch matrix diode even when there's no switch. You could argue the switch itself should also be removed from the diagram but I'll leave it for consistency.
Quoted from cottonm4:And what is this monster hi lighted in green that is not labeled?
That's the tilt switch and ball roll tilt mechanism, I forgot to remove it because they stopped installing the tilt switch on the playfield (somewhere around Flight 2000, maybe a game or three earlier). Those belong on the cabinet switch matrix. I'll remove them once you confirm that drop target coil wire color.
BTW, any chance if you can confirm whether the pop bumper switches have capacitors?
Quoted from cottonm4:The only reason I asked is because I see what looks like 3 unused switch positions at top of column "A".
Those are the coin chute positions in the switch matrix, they actually don't have diodes installed. See the diodes remark below from the manual.
I've updated the schematic in post #1040 above with the special tilt switches removed.
BTW if it's not obvious, switch number #1 is top left in the matrix and counts downwards to switch #8 then moves to the top of the adjacent column and counts down again. Switch #40 ends up being at the bottom of the right most column.
Quoted from cottonm4:My other question: Did Stern put a newly graduated electronics engineer on the Catacomb drawings?
Whoever it was, made many manual mistakes even back to the MPU-100 games.
Quoted from cottonm4:My pop bumper switches do NOT have capacitors installed.
Thankyou.
Last mod I hope, I've removed the coil marked "Backbox Playfield" from the playfield schematic - it's actually the bagatelle playfield enable relay which is behind the bagatelle and it's on your bagatelle schematic.
Unfortunately I can no longer change the work in progress playfield schematic in post #1040 so here it is.
Quoted from cottonm4:EDIT: So I do not sound ungrateful, thank you! for all you have done to clean this drawing up.
Cheers, I'll have to scan and update the lower cabinet schematic with the items that are missing (left flipper bagatelle switch, and speaker/volume control). Maybe next week. Then there's the power/transformer diagram to include the bagatelle power wire, and the backbox wiring diagram.. it doesn't end
Quoted from Agent_Hero:Where does that wire go if the Tilt bulb isn't correct?
The other tab on the tilt lamp socket should hook up to the 5.4VDC feature lamp power wire (thick blue wire from memory). That's where the Siegecraft wire needs to be connected.
Quoted from Agent_Hero:Am I now chasing a ground issue in the A, B, and C area?
Post a picture showing the back of the door in the head showing the wiring to the lamps.
Quoted from Agent_Hero:[quoted image]
I can't clearly see where you've hooked up to because the area is shaded but if it's the double blue wire on the tilt lamp socket, that's correct.
Quoted from Agent_Hero:I don’t see anything that looks iffy to that extent.
Can you pinpoint specifically which lamps aren't illuminating so I can look for a pattern.
Quoted from Agent_Hero:Bank A: 1, 6, 9, 14
Bank B: 3, 8, 11, 16
Bank C: 4, 7, 12, 15The corresponding numbers in the toast section are also not lighting. Other lights not lighting in attract mode are Spot 2, 500 at the spinner, Spot 1, and Spot 6 at the top lanes.
Ok, looks like you have a bad connection to the lamp driver board at pin 17 of the J4 connector. This signal comes from the MPU board at J1 pin 12 and goes via the speech board at pin 17 on both connectors.
The spinner lamp not working is a separate issue.
Quoted from Agent_Hero:I think I saw in Clay's guides that a bit of solder between the base and the lamp socket can usually get them going. It's worked so far a few times in other games, but is that frowned upon as being hackish?
Glad you got it going.
With respect to soldering the socket receptor to the base bracket, I don't consider this a hack at all. It solidifies the connection and helps improves reliability.
Quoted from Agent_Hero:On to a general question about the game: Just below the star rollover at the top center of the playfield there is a switch facing that rollover. It isn't listed in the manual as having its own number in switch diagnostics. What does it do?
What wire colors are on that switch? Or which unique number comes up in switch test mode when you press it?
I can't wait to pull my Catacomb out of storage in a few months. First on the agenda will be removing the Gottlieb flipper mechs some genius installed in it..
Quoted from TheLaw:Alright, got an interesting one here.
Which bank of drop targets?
Quoted from TheLaw:Drop target bank does not reset in start of game or coil test but does fire when shorted.
Where are you shorting to test activate the coil?
Quoted from cottonm4:What is missing is the "smoke" on the glass
Hmm 
Picture is 10 years old:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/4#post-3097124
Quoted from SMP14:but how should I wire this J2-1 W-R since the other switches in that daisy chain column are on the playfield? Thanks
That part of the switch wiring diagram makes no sense. The cabinet switch matrix wiring diagram shows it correctly. Below is what it should look like modified in red:
Red-Yellow wire is the strobe #0 wire with the diode. Yellow wire is the I7 return wire.
cottonm4 and I actually discussed this a few years ago over PM. Per his diagram above his game uses an Orange-Red wire in place of the Yellow wire. There are pictures of the left flipper switches in this thread at:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/17#post-5338662
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club/page/4#post-2648876
Quoted from SMP14:The switches for the bagatelle are very finicky and need to be cleaned and adjusted...
How do these switches work exactly, im moving my finger over them and not all of these switches are working usually only through C and D I've heard noise and the ball ends.
The bagatelle switches are a replica of the drop target switches. If you're trying to test the bagatelle switches, make sure all the drop targets are raised so there's no closed switches.
Quoted from FantasticPinball:I am concerned about this area. IS the original black like this, or was this a damaged glass that was scanned?
If you look through the image gallery of this thread you'll see most backglass pictures don't have that lower black area of missing artwork.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club?gallery#g
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