You might be able to use the chrome bracket you have and redesign the wire and make something that would work. I think I could design a wire to work with this bracket that would work and it would get rid of that horrendous spring you have. I think.

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And, Catacomb is back home in the collection:

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Gorgeous!!!!!!!

Congrats, enjoy it!

Thanks! Catacomb plays incredible with a clear coated playfield. So much faster.

I'm gonna try to mess with it a little after I finish this shadow project. Where do you get that piano wire from? is it a certain gauge

I like the torch graphic on the pop caps, just might have to do that with mine.

I got lucky and found my wire at a local model aircraft hobby shop. Google " model airplane piano wire". Several options will pop up. Gauge .047" works good as you can bend it with needle nose pliers or some modified duck bill pliers. You will want to use pieces of wire that are long enough so that you have some leverage to help bend the wire.

Marco Specialities offers piano wire in various gauges.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=piano+wire

They also offer a tool for bending the wire if you need one:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-8593

Not sure what sizes you'll need though...

Note: I have found that you do not have to move any support brackets to the B.B. one way gate.
If you turn the wire gate to the extreme opposite position it will "unhook" from the top bracket.
Those, allowing one to remove wire gate from bottom support bracket.
Reverse the order to reattach the one-way wire gate.

I just tried that out. Works great. Nice discovery.

Do not buy that bender from Marco. The bending radius is far to big for wire guides. I made my own bending jig from a good piece of hardwood and some nails.

Big old shout out to eyeamred2u. He sent me the bagatelle gate, and when I opened it there were two!

Put it in my pin and def makes a big difference on play. I had it dialed in with no gate and was pretty damn good at hitting what I needed. This changes everything, def going to spend some time adjusting to it.

So, on another thread it was suggested my fault of an additional 20000 points, is actually just early code.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-1980-sterns-quicksilver-stargazer-seawitch/page/45#post-5201235

Does anyone remember this?

Maybe only the very early European versions had this code, which explains why no one remembers.

I also have letters on my grid, instead of numbers.

I need to change all my roms to score correctly I think.

Hi.

If you have the catacomb I I need to asking some photos.

I need to know where connect the unternal relay in backbos.

My catacomb miss wires.

Thank's

Need to be a bit more precise?

10nzEN4r3EZ0i-Hjl0xYycYhg-hhpTro_BkbNHUpbTQeJxFPc (resized).jpg

You are graet.

I have the relay in the back box.

I foun the cable to power the relay but I dont have the female conector.

Can you send me where the female connector goes.

Kind regards

Screenshot_20191121-233318_Facebook (resized).jpg

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Goes into another connector.

That connector goes to the middle of these wires.

IMG_6075 (resized).jpg

IMG_6076 (resized).jpg

I know is too much work to follow the wire.

But I need it. Because I need rebuild the wire.

Could you please Follow the wire and tell me where it ends or connects.

I read all the manual and it does not apear in it.

Please please I promess a video. And your photo in my playroom!

Kind regards

Martin

The blue-white wire is solenoid power. I guess it will come from the cabinet at the rectifier board on connector J3 pin 13.

Is the other wire color red-white? If yes, it probably comes from the solenoid driver board at connector J2 pin 15 which is the backbox playfield enable.

I tried but it's too difficult to follow, as all wires so tightly bunched together.

The colors of the wires on the other side of connector are black and other is red/yellow.

Schematic should answer question but I can't read them!

IMG_6077 (resized).jpg

IMG_6078 (resized).jpg

Unfortunately clear details on this are not listed in the schematics :-/

Any chance you or someone else can comment on what the wire colors are at the solenoid driver board connector J2 pin 15 (left bottom most wire), and also the wire color at the rectifier board in the cabinet at J3 pin 13?

i will be home later today and will be able to have a look on my Catacomb

OK.

Here is the short answer:

1) Rectifier J3-13 is a dark blue/white wire that travels to the flipper coil on the displays board. From the coil, the Blu/W wire and now also a Black wire travel up to the relay. (Dark Blue/W can also be Light Blue/ White wire instead).

2) From the right hand flipper (see more below about the confusion below) a Red/Yellow pairs up with the Blu/W wire at the rectifier board and travels to the relay. These two wires are joined into a connector (this is the connector the questioner cannot find the female on his Catacomb.)

2) At the relay, a Red/White wire travels to SDU J2-15.

That's it. That is your circuit.

===========================

Pin J3-13 is a dark blue wire with white stripe. See yellow tie wrap at the connector. While I did not do a continuity check, I am reasonably certain this Blu-W wire travels to the flipper coil on the displays/bagatelle board. From the coil this Blu/W wire travels up to the relay. There is also a black wire that travels from the coil to the relay.

IMG_2499 (resized).JPG

The relay has 4 wires attached. The four wire colors are:

1) The familiar Dark Blue/White wire from the flipper coil is located to the left side of the relay to the rear.

2) The black wire located at the flipper coil is located to the right side of the relay.

IMG_2514 (resized).JPG

2) A Red/white wire is positioned in front of dark blue wire. There is a diode between these two wires; The banded side of the diode faces the dark blue wire. This R/W wire travels to SDU J2-15. This has been verified with a continuity check.

3) There is also a red/yellow wire at the relay.

IMG_2502 (resized).JPG

The dark blue/white wire and red/yellow wire pair off and travels across the displays board to a 2-pin connector that I am holding between thumb and forefinger.

IMG_2504 (resized).JPG

The other side of the 2-pin connector carries the same Blu/W wire and Red/Y wire into the play field harness. Traveling down this harness, the Blu/W wire terminates at J3-13 on the rectifier board where we started out at.

IMG_2512 (resized).JPG

While the Blu/W wire terminates at J3-13, the Red/Y wire connects to a red wire that travels to the right flipper. This is as far as I can trace the Red/Y wire. I am going to have to cut some tie wraps so I can see what this action is because I see a Red/Y wire on the left flipper, as well.

IMG_2515 (resized).JPG

cottonm4 you are now my friend!

I can`t more happy! Tha catacomb now playyyyyy

you are a geniusss.

Thank`s.

I love pinballsssss!!!

If you came to visit Argentina let me know.

Kind regards

Matin

@cottonm4, thanks kindly for going into detail. You got hochiming up and running

Question, the red-yellow wire that connects to a red wire near the rectifier board, that red wire then goes to the right flipper button switch right? i.e. not back up to the playfield at the right flipper mech onto a second switch at the EOS switch stack?

One of these days I have to scan my Catacomb manual in high res and replace the poor quality one in IPDB. And maybe add clearer details on this to the schematics.

What’s a real
Nice unrestored catacomb worth ?

A ballpark

Thank you for letting me know you have resolution. But where was the connector that you could not find?

Quench, I could not have done this without your insights. Early on, I noticed that Catacomb had an extra wire at A2-J3-13 but I have never had time to properly trace it. And I do not think I would have ever found the R/W wire at SDU 2-15. So, my hat is off to you. But I am proud I was able to help another Catacomb come to life.

I am going to have to cut several tie wraps so I can physically trace the R/Y wire properly. I did not understand why the R/Y color was not maintained at that connector and why it turned to red. I hope to be able to check this tonight. All I can say at this time is the R/Y wire turns into a red wire and travels to the right flipper. At the right flipper, there is another red wire that travels back toward the left flipper, but the left flipper has a R/Y wire attached. The puzzle is hidden inside those tie wraps.

Matin, I will probably never travel outside of the US. But I have always wanted to see the countries in South America. But yours is a nice offer and you have a nice collection so I may have to do something about this

Not too long ago I passed on a rather rough example for 2k. Too much work I thought. Not long after that one pops up in my own backyard on ebay. That one also needed quite a bit of work and it broke 3k.
IF it's "nice" as you say
playfield is clean
backglass above average and cab has more paint than scratches...
3.5-4k should be in the ballpark.
I'm no expert, I only know what I saw.
-- Pinside estimated value of 2k is seriously outdated imo.

Crazy swings on this one. 900-2500

"Nice unrestored" of course can mean a lot with Classic Sterns. I would expect some missing paint and all horrible keylines which is average.

I spent a few years looking, always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

Ending up getting a decent for around 3.5k. If it's a title you want, get it.

This one sold on Pinside. Asking price was $5500.00. Final sales price was not listed but the ad went up on 12-20-18 and went down on 12-27-18.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/72768

my collection is in restoration process !

But I have to play some!

is de green line? or the stairs to heaven to my.

I prefer the 80`s!

You are welcome any time to visit my playroom.

thank`s again

That's ok, I don't want you cutting cable ties in your game.
The right flipper button has a red wire as Stern standard going to the solenoid driver board flipper relay - in Catacomb it likely also goes to the relay on the backbox playfiled via the thick red-yellow wire.

Looking at the left flipper button switch linked below, it's a double stack switch with a thin red-yellow wire that's used for advance in bagatelle mode.
https://images.pinside.com/9/b6/ed/9b6edcfa55a915accc90ff1310288a067f9ce684.jpg
The schematics lists the left flipper advance switch as being on the playfield instead of the cabinet flipper button.

He'll just put some new ones one

I have 3 sacks of small tie wraps at 1000 count per bag. I'm rich in tie wraps. I have to see it for myself. They are coming off. It might be a couple of days, but touchy-feely is always better than a drawing. With all doubts removed, I like your idea of making a new drawing for IPDB.org.

Progress is slow. I cut some cable ties and ran the red wire. It comes across from the right hand flipper and proceeds to travel back up toward the back box in the cabinet wire harness. I'll have to go back into the back box to see where it terminates. There are a lot of red wires in the back box I'll have to do a continuity check.

I have to leave the house for awhile. Will look later.

IMG_2557 (resized).JPG

IMG_2556 (resized).JPG

Recap: The Red/yellow wire at the bagatelle relay travels down into the play field harness. At a point near the rectifier board, the R/Y wire terminates into a connector with a Red wire on the other side. This red wire travels to the right flipper; From the right flipper, the Red wire goes back into the backbox and terminates at SDU J2-1. If I could draw this is would be >>>>bagatelle relay<<<<----Red/Yellow wire---connector---red wire---right flipper---red wire---SDU J2-1.

Still left to do is run the red/yellow wire from the left flipper. Somehow, I think this flipper R/Y wire has some way of connecting to the (previously referenced) R/Y wire at the bagatelle relay but I get no continuity from the left flipper to the relay.

Thankyou!

Is the right flipper button switch a single or double switch stack?

The red-yellow wire on the left flipper buttons second stacked switch should go to the tilt mech, start button and coin chute switches - ultimately it should come from the MPU board at J3 pin 2. What is the color of the other wire on that left flipper switch associated with the red-yelow wire? Is it just a yellow wire that goes to the MPU board at J3 pin 16?
That second stacked left flipper button switch should essentially be the advance switch for bagatelle mode and is part of the switch matrix.

Right flipper single stack, left double

Yes.

Yes, indeedy Boss ! The run to the tilt and start button confused me. That R/Y wire terminates at MPU J3-2.

The color of the other wire on the 2nd flipper stack is orange/red wire. The red hi-lights on this orange wire are of the small 1/4" inch "chunks" of red as opposed to an orange wire with one long red accent stripe. A continuity check confirms this wire terminates at MPU A4-J3-16. What I don't know is if this is a straight run from Point A to Point B of if something else is in the circuit for this wire.
==================================

This entire bagatelle circuit needs its own complete breakout drawing page to show where everything is at.
==================================================

NOTE: I am going to have to study the switch matrix. The color of my wiring does not seem to match what is on the drawing; The wiring on my pin does not match the drawing callouts. The coin door drawing calls for I-7 to be MPU A4-J3-16 to be (Y) yellow but mine is the O/R from 2nd stack from the left flipper wire. The other side of this circuit at A4-J3-2 is the correct R/Y wire we already have talked.

My Big Game has four wires that do not match drawing call outs. Where the drawing calls for a Purple wire, my wire is Orange/Green. Purple/Blue is actually Purple/White. Grey/Red is actually Tan-Orange. So anything is possible with Stern and its wiring.

Yes, this is the advance switch for bagatelle. I just have not been able to find it on the switch matrix. Can you point me to the correct matrix address, please? I see L. Flipper button at address STO A and I7 for an orange wire and a White /Red wire. I don't see any other Left flipper button addresses.

So my question is, can /should you use some clear on the backboard /bagatelle?

Had to touch up a bit and just wondering. My first thought is always yes.

Why? What did you have to touch up? All you have is a plastic ball floating by once in awhile. The color paint that is there is not fragile. I don't understand your thoughts for clear in this area.

The paint was missing so I touched it up.

Indeed.. Pity my Catacomb is deep in storage. If you're up for it, at some point pictures of the wire colors going to the bagatelle switches and lamps will help.
Will see if I can start scanning the manual/schematics this week.

TheLaw can you comment on the wire colors on your 2nd stacked left flipper button switch?

Yes, that "L. Flipper button" on the playfield switch matrix schematic is the bagatelle advance switch. It's either a schematic boo boo since the switch is in the cabinet not the playfield, or it was originally intended to be a 2nd stacked switch on the playfields left flipper mech EOS switch stack.

I have thought about drawing it up. It would not be hard. I'll have to include it in my "items up next" queue. Pinball is a great retirement hobby. I am bust all of the time

I'm sorry I spaced doing this Quench orange red and blue red

cat (resized).jpg

Thanks!
I think you might have them installed the wrong way. The blue flipper switch wire should be wall side, the red-yellow bagatelle advance switch wire should be screw side.
i.e. unscrew the switch stack, remove the two screws and install them through the other side of the stack, flip the stack around and screw back in (hope that makes sense). This way your flipper activates first.

I've been putting the entire thing back together late nights with the help of a lot of beer, so it's a possibility

I really need to buy some new plastics. Can someone help me with this one? Game is unplayable with this broken piece.

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