The left flipper is always active. The left flipper is a double switch flipper. If it is not rotating the drop target lights check it for cleanliness and adjustment.

Thanks

Lots of testing to do.

I think there’s a little confusion going on. I’ve had 2 Catacombs including my current one which will never leave, and both worked the same. Every player gets at least one chance to flip the bagatelle ball after their playfield ball drains on every ball. The player continues shooting the bagatelle ball until either the ball goes through a lane that trips an already lit number, or the player takes too long to flip the bagatelle flipper (“shoot fast or lose shot”). However, the player can take as long as they want to flip the bagatelle flipper on their first attempt after every playfield ball drain. So using the left flipper to highlight a number to hopefully light up is easy before the first flip of the bagatelle flipper, but after that there’s an inherent timer that will time the player out. Also, the upper rollovers score the 6 and 1, not the 8.

This game is confusing for sure!

So, I tested. Upper rollovers on my game, spot 1 and spot 6, do not light numbers/letters in the grid.

Instead, one sets colors to red and the other orange.

This seems to be same as this video?

See above. My upper rollovers do not spot a number in the grid.

And watching this, I don't think they are meant to?

I believe that the numbers are freezed on the target bank. you have to complete the target bank in order to get the bonus lamp lit.

Remove the playfield glass and start a new game. Use your finger to trip the rollovers for “Spot 6” and “Spot 1”. Be aware the rollovers must be lit for the corresponding numbers in the grid to light. I say this because only one of those rollovers will be lit as they change along with the “Spot 2” target on the playfield via multiple switches such as the top star rollover and the switch in the back of the “B” drop target bank. What do your games do?

If all it was supposed to do was set the targets to certain colors, why would it be “Spot 6” or “Spot 1”? What does the “Spot 2” target do?

Bingo!

I didn't notice that the pop bumpers rotate spot 2, 6 and 1 and yes, when lit, they award number/letter in grid.

And the 2 rollovers set the drops at red or yellow.

Thanks.

I'm curious. With your Bonus section being the A-B-C-D type, do those 3 inserts still read as spot 1, spot 6, and spot 2? And they spot A, A, D. ?

And what are the inserts around all four drop targets read? Are they numbers or are they A-B-C-D, as well?

Drop inserts.

IMG_4194 (resized).jpg

These are the spotted letters.

Spot 2 is green D
Spot 1 is yellow A
Spot 6 is red A

IMG_4200 (resized).jpg

And now a question!

Oh, cleaned second flipper switch - I think it is working as it should now - thanks

The 4 bulbs inside the plastic either don't work or flicker.

In test they light so I am thinking maybe these have different bulbs?

I looked in manual but couldn't make sense of the schematics.

Are they flashers?

IMG_4192 (resized).jpg

Put them in the GI and see if they flash.

There were LED bulbs in initially. They didn't really work.

Tried 47's - no good either so unsure what is going on.

The 4 bulbs must be in those plastic boxes for a reason?

I just have to say, I love how active this club thread is these days! For a long time there was so little action in here, this game deserves this much attention as it is awesome.

I am going to post a 1981 review by Roger Sharpe in the next week or so as well - it's a good read.

It was a tough game on location as players could knock down the drops and get the wrong color. Great game to have a home though

Even in testing, I can see the skill needed to pick off the last drop as the color moves around.

Those are 44 or 47 bulbs. From top to bottom they are:
High Game
Tilt
Shoot Again
Game Over

You beat me to it.

Well, Tiger Law, why don't you come in and lay some Catacomb stuff on us. Tell us how yours is doing. You still like it? Are you ever going to sell it? You are a lawyer. You know how to talk. The more the merrier.

I wish mine was of the A-B-C-D Bonus style. So much easier to shoot for the column instead of trying to figure out which column you need to shoot for for a particular number.

I am still struggling to work out the bagatelle - if I had numbers, I would be even more lost!

It is clear though, contrary to some other opinions, that there is plenty of skill in the bagatelle feature.

Thanks for that.

Tried a few things. Weirdly led bulbs do not work very well for these. 47's were better.

Finally when I put GE 44's in, they are now working properly!

Shoot again and High Game flash, which is why I thought flashers might be indicated.

My Catacomb will be in the HAAG tourney in a few weeks. Looking forward to showing it off. Keith Holbrook will take it away from HAAg to clear coat the playfield.

Keith is going to be a busy man. Shortly, I will be delivering my Quicksilver play field to him for restoration.

Getting closer to a fully working game!

I noticed there are a few switch blades broken here - underneath the ball trough. Probably as a result of people pulling out playfield with nowhere to rest it.

Anyway I can't find silver switch blades like these anywhere.

Anyone had to buy these and know where?

Thanks
IMG_4202 (resized).jpg

IMG_4203 (resized).jpg

Get in line. My Cyclopes playfield is still awaiting his restoration.

I see the broken pieces you talk of. If all of your wring to the switches looks intact and nothing looks shorted you should be OK to play.

The blades themselves are common. And I have switches galore that use these blades. I just see any others that are stacked this way these ball management switches are stacked.

if you have some old switches laying around, you can pry them apart with a small screwdriver and use the salvage separators/wafers to rebuild your switches.

http://pbresource.com/buttswit.html

PBR also sells blades, fish paper, contacts, separators...everything you need to build your own switches. You will have to ask Steve for the small tubes that hold everything together. You will see all of this way down close to bottom of this link.

http://pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#oldstern

Preview of 1981 review.

Nice touch about getting back for 5 week old Zach.

Fast forward to 2018 and he was number 1 pinball player in the world!

IMG_4231 (resized).jpg

White-Blue wire/ Red wire do not look like they are hooked up correctly?
Is the Red wire supposed to go to the solder lug?

White-Blue goes to the solder lug.

Nice catch, vec-tor.

I took some pics of mine. THat Blue-White wire needs to with the diode. Where he has a red wire mine is a brown wire and is hard to see.

IMG_8609 (resized).JPG

IMG_8619 (resized).JPGIMG_8621 (resized).JPGIMG_8624 (resized).JPG

I just did that Cotton with The Robocop I have for the pop bumpers.
Had to add two contact leafs .
Glad your liking the Catacomb so much I could not have found a better buyer than you bud, Took this club up a notch . =)

Thanks guys. Amazing to spot wrong wiring.

I have re-done it correctly. I think the red wire is new - a previous owner must have put it in.

What would effects be of wrong wiring?

The fault I had when game arrived was that the ball trough coil had shorted and was super hot/smoking.

And in turn it had blown a transistor on the board.

I am now wondering if the wrong wiring had anything to do with it or just co-incidence?

IMG_4234 (resized).jpg

Quick question about the bagatelle.

Why 3 switches per letter?

And any tips as sometimes the bagatelle does not score a letter/number when it should do. Even in testing with my finger.

But most times it does?

Follow up question after more testing and I cleaned all 9 switches.

The top 4 of A,B, C, and D are for sounds.

Middle 4 score points.

Bottom 4 give the grid letters/numbers.

What I can't figure out is this. Do all 3 switches have to register for the bottom switch to give the letter/number?

It seems that way in testing in that if I just press bottom switch nothing happens?

If this is true, then it explains why sometimes a number/letter is not awarded as the plastic ball only needs to not trigger one of the 3 switches. So, all 12 switches needed to be cleaned and gapped perfectly?
IMG_4236 (resized).jpg

I wondered about this but never took it as far as you just have. I'm thinking that the color of light you select during bagatelle is probably the 4th switch somehow.

That sounds reasonable.

Bottom switches seem to trigger light color.

I could be wrong but in testing if one of the 3 switches isn't triggered by the ball, then nothing is awarded in the grid.

If this is the case and schematics would reveal, then I wonder how many Catacomb's miss awards in the bagatelle? I think without the letters, I would struggle to know if it was acting correctly or not!

Wish I understood schematics!

I was wondering the same. (Why 3 switches per column in bagatelle.) Thanks for that info! I have noticed the same...sometimes a grid letter is not awarded in the bagatelle game when it should. I JUST recently cleaned all 12 switches and adjusted any that needed it. I made sure that when using my finger to test the switch in switch test that I didn't have to push the switch down too far for it to register. I noticed one zeener diode was broken and that switch was not working so I replaced that and that switch now works.

Here is what I think is the answer to your question.... The caps on the switches likely need to be replaced. They get old and dry up and do not do their job as effectively. They help switches that are hit very fast to register. So far I replaced the 3 caps on the rightmost column switches as I know that column has not registered before occasionally. I may end up changing the caps on all 12 switches. Pretty easy to do. I just cut the legs of the old caps but left room to solder the new caps to the old legs. I did dremel the old caps legs a bit just to polish them up and give them a nice fresh soldering surface 1st though.

Very interesting!

What kind of caps are you putting on?

Any links?

Mine is working better with switches cleaned and gapped very tight.

Haven't tested it much yet though.

Btw, anyone who says the bagatelle isn't skill based, doesn't understand how it works! Need lightning reactions to change colors at last second!

You have to know how to nudge; I'm learning.

You need a feather touch on that flipper button; I suck at it but I'm getting better.

I'm not fast enough to change the colors at the last second and really need to work on that. And this is where your A-B-C-D play field will really give you an advantage, IMO.

You caught on fast. It is so much more than just shooting the ball.

Still only played a few test games!

I just want everything working 100% and then I can play it properly and start to work out how to score on this game.

Love the ball action on this game.

It really is a unique pin - nothing else like it out there.

And yes, the letters does give a playing advantage as more chance of that late left flip to change the colors.

Brain has to work fast but not as fast as with numbers!

0.047mfd 50v ceramic cap is what I use. Sorry I forget where I bought them but I bought 100 of them for super cheap. Great to have on hand.

Starting to get better at the bagatelle game as well. I usually pick a color that I have none of or the least of and keep flipping till i see that the ball is going to land in a column I already hit then hit the left flipper fast to change the color. Is that your guys strategy?

First round I get one of each color. That is a sure thing. After that the crap shoot starts. Column D can be easy sometimes if you have a light touch. A hard hit and some nudging gets Column A. Sometimes I will keep rotating the colors and other times I try to fill one color and move on. I have not shot to fill a specific column. Many times I keep the flipper activated for the next ball. With the flipper still up you can tap the flipper and bounce the ball and get D relatively easily. There is skill but a whole lotta luck involved. I need to improve my tap hitting on the flipper. I'm not fast enough to rotate the colors when the ball is moving; That would be a nice skill to have.

I concentrate on continued improvement on my game and try to keep knocking those drop targets. Drops are your big points. I'm getting better but still have such a long way to go.

Started to think about the bagatelle and it seems to be that you are always playing the odds.

After the initial 4 colors that is.

On later balls, there will always be a color or colors that you have better odds of hitting.

This is why this a skill based part of the game.

If you don't know the odds and what you need, you are more likely to end the bagatelle by scoring a number already obtained.

And there is a big risk/reward element.

If you have 3 colors, do you go for the 4th, even though the odds of hitting it are much lower, if say you have a color with only 1 obtained?

Getting 4 colors, lights 2x bonus, so it may be worth gambling and going for it.

Of course, all this happens super, super quickly, so you need cat like reflexes and thinking to even make the right choice.

It is complicated and I get why people have said the bagatelle is a random, luck based part of the game. It is if you really don't understand how it works.

One of the knocks against the bagatelle is that the worse you do on the playfield, the more chances you are likely to get to equalize your game progress via the bagatelle. This becomes a big equalizer in games (for better or for worse depending on what you like in a game). It would have been better, in my opinion, if you had to earn bagatelle flips on the playfield (for each set of drops completed perhaps).

Still though, it's a cool and unique game.

Yes, I can see that.

I don't know the game well enough to know how much difference this makes to scoring.

Seems a really big equalizer on ball 1 for sure.

I wasn't sure what you meant so googled..... and then looked at my game.

Found these - NOS.

Exactly the same as in my game.

Worth stocking up for anyone who owns this game. Always nice to find original parts.

ebay.com link: 100 PC 05uF 100V 20 Capacitor Z5U SERIES

Hey man. Those capacitors are likely 40 years old so I would not use them if I were you. You may not improve the situation at all. I would stick with new.