(Topic ID: 157180)

Casino -- homebrew p-roc project

By rosh

8 years ago


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    Topic index (key posts)

    9 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

    Post #5 Roulette Wheel Detailed Info Posted by rosh (8 years ago)

    Post #7 Dice Popper Information Posted by rosh (8 years ago)

    Post #25 CAD of Playfield Posted by rosh (7 years ago)

    Post #52 Playfield populated with some inserts. Posted by rosh (7 years ago)

    Post #61 Wiring Progress Posted by rosh (7 years ago)

    Post #63 Playfield populated with some mechs and lights. Posted by rosh (7 years ago)

    Post #119 Adding a slot machine toy. Posted by rosh (7 years ago)

    Post #127 Fully populated playfield with LCD Screens and a short video. Posted by rosh (7 years ago)


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    There are 146 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    24
    #1 8 years ago

    At MGC I was talking to some folks about my custom games and was asked if there was a thread on pinside, so figure I should at least start one for the machine I am working on now. A lot of the content of the first few posts I will make are edited version of what was on the pinballcontrollers.com forum, so at first it will look like I am making rapid progress on this game, when in reality, not so much.

    Lets start with some background. After moving my first custom game “the Kugler family” to a larger full color display (it started with regular DMD, then color the same resolution and then to large screen full 24 bit color), I decided to start a new project.  My brother kept pushing on doing a gambling theme. While at first I was lukewarm to the idea, after I came up with some cool ideas for toys, I became more interested and decided to give it a try.

    The game was at expo in 2014, but believe it or not, not a single game was played on it before bringing it to expo. I had not put the playfield into the cabinet until about 3AM Thursday morning of expo. So late in the day on Thursday after I fixed some issues with it, it was played for the first time.  I was actually quite pleased with how it played as far as the number of shots, the feel of the shots, etc. but I was not happy with how the rules for the different casino games came together. After expo I was pretty burned out and did nothing on either game for months. Then I got back to work on adding artwork and some playfield changes (needed to do a new version of the playfield to get the inserts where I waned them to go with the art) for the Kugler’s and Casino sat idle and I did not even bring it to expo this past fall, since I had done nothing on it. But, a week or two ago, when I drove past the Westin, it struck me that expo is just six months away, and if Casino was going to make an appearance, it was time to get back to work on it.

    The game is running with a resolution of 450x900  (my other machine is running 96x192), which is then doubled when pushed to the LCD.  So the LCD is running at HD resolution. The actual screen size that is visible is 13”x6.5” so it still fits into a standard height speaker panel and between standard size speakers.   The game does not use a dot look, since the dots become just way too small and really just seems to darken the screen.  The game is currently running on a low end pentium processor, which appears to have no issue providing the necessary loop rate, even with the high resolution.

    The color support comes from using the pyprocgameHD version that MOcean and I have been working on for a while.  Our work on that evolved from the standard 16 shade dmd to an 8 bit, 256 indexed color approach and then to full 24bit color.  To be honest Michael did more of the heavy lifting than I did.

    The game features the five most popular games you will find in a casino (slots, craps, poker, blackjack and roulette) and then also has a set of 8 modes to capture other things that often occur in a trip to Las Vegas (bachelor party, all you can eat buffet, drunk and can’t find my room, etc). The original rules had all five of the casino games active at the same time, well, sort of, but I now have some playfield changes and rule changes to reduce that so it is not so confusing to the player as to what is going on. So while you still may be building towards multiple games at a time, the play of those gambling games is more clear. I’ll do posts on each of the casino games to explain how they are being implemented.

    I should comment, that I did a lot of work on this machine before I was aware of High Roller Casino despite knowing over a dozen guys with anywhere from 10 to 50+ machines, I had never seen or played one. From the couple of times played it at expo, there is not a lot of similarity, although both have a Roulette wheel, but as I told Keith Johnson, I think mine better (I’ll explain who it works in a later post).

    Here are a couple of photos of the playfield and cabinet. The first is after I finished routing (by hand) and then the inserts and the cabinet with playfield at expo.
    This is the playfield after being routed by hand using a 30 year old hand router, using templates for the square and triangle inserts and Forstner bits for the round ones.

    IMG_0839_(resized).JPGIMG_0839_(resized).JPG

    Here it is with the inserts added.

    IMG_0845_(resized).JPGIMG_0845_(resized).JPG

    and here is the machine at expo, funny thing is you can see the Kuglers machine, which was much, much further along in the background, without cabinet art (which it did have this past year at expo, this is from 2014), yet Casino has art . . . .

    IMG_0881_(resized).JPGIMG_0881_(resized).JPG

    I'll do some other posts shortly that will cover the features, rules and toys of a couple of the casino games.

    Happy to answer any questions.

    #2 8 years ago

    It's great to see this project finally has its own pinside thread, and I was sad it didn't make an appearance at expo last year.

    I can't wait until you start posting videos; the amount of stuff that you've done in this "unfinished" project is very impressive!

    #3 8 years ago

    Its about time we hear more about this game Josh. It has some great theme potential, fun interactive toys and you have the skillz to do it right. Looking forward to seeing more!!!

    #4 8 years ago

    Hey Josh. Let me know when you have that new ramp design ready so we can get it built.

    #5 8 years ago

    Since I already made a comment about Roulette, and MOcean wants to see some video, lets start there. I am going to assume you know how roulette works, if not http://bfy.tw/5EXO . You enable roulette by hitting a captive ball, located below the wheel, the required number of times (based on the skill level you choose when starting your game, and also based on how many times you have played roulette), once open you shoot the right orbit to feed the ball into a VUK which then throws the ball into the roulette wheel and a second ball is put into play.

    The roulette wheel uses a magnet to keep the ball moving on the upper rim of the roulette wheel. Meanwhile you use the second ball to place your bets. Each of the major shots maps to a number (and color) on the roulette wheel. After a certain amount of time the dealer/croupier will announce ‘no more bets’ and the magnet will stop pulsing and the ball will slow and then fall into the spinning disc on the inside of the roulette wheel. the spinning disc/wheel slows to a stop as the the machine determines what number/color the ball landed it. Once the results are announced, the ball in the wheel rotates to a trap door and is dropped back into play. A third ball is also put into play. Shooting shots of the same color as the number that came up score jackpots and the number that came up is the super jackpot. The value of the jackpots are based on how many times you made that shot during the “place your bets” timer period.

    A feature I think I will add is that while you still have three balls in play, you can re-open the roulette wheel and put one ball back into the wheel where it will remain until you drain a ball at which point it will be released. If that ball lands in the same number slot, some kind of a super, super jackpot or an extra ball would be awarded.

    Here are a couple of videos of the development of the roulette wheel. This first clip was the very first test I did when trying to figure out how to do it. I had just taken an old frisbee golf disc and cut out the middle so I could mount the opto. I was shocked it worked on the first attempt, but as you will see, the ball accelerated each time it past the magnet and got too fast and flew right off.

    Was then easy enough to add code to control the speed.

    I then experimented with out to actually make it work and even tried seeing what would appen with two balls . . .

    Not sure I will ever try to do that in the game, would be tricky to get the timing just right so they collide before the software can adjust the speed to keep them apart. But if I come up with a really good reason to try, you never know.

    This next video shows the wheel with a good chunk of the functionality implemented. You will see ball enter the wheel, spin for a bit, you can tell when the magnet stops pulsing, the ball slows, falls in the inner wheel slows to a stop as the software determines what number it is (not implemented at the time of this video) and then the trap door is opened and the wheel rotates to drop the ball out.

    Below is a photo of the wheel, after hydrographics were used to give it a wood tone look. Nelly, who is one of the guys doing Buffy the Vampire Slayer (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-pinball), had done this wood tone for that machine and was nice enough to do this for me. There is a little too much "lip" on the wheel and it needs to be trimmed, but I’ve been leery of doing it, since I don’t want to damage the wheel, which was vacuum formed in my kitchen, which my wife was not crazy about.

    IMG_0841_(resized).JPGIMG_0841_(resized).JPG

    I don’t have any photos or videos of the roulette wheel in the machine right now, and I’ve recently pulled it out to make some changes to how the optos that are used for the magnet, detecting the number and the home position are mounted. If all goes as planned (yeah, right), I will have those changed finished up in the next few days.

    #6 8 years ago

    More pics of the populated white wood!

    11
    #7 8 years ago

    As I mentioned earlier, it was some of the toy ideas that got me to move forward with Casino. One of the ideas was to use real craps dice in a ‘dice popper’. Many of us played the game Trouble, when we were kids that had the dice bubble in the middle that you would press down on to roll the dice (well in that case it was one die), so the idea was do that kind of a thing and then use a camera to read the dice.

    The first challenge is that webcams are not designed to focus on something that close, so it required a custom one. Then after I got it working, I found that changes in lighting could impact the accuracy of reading the dice, duh. So I recently added a ‘housing’ at the top that holds the camera and an LED ‘ring’ to provide more consistent lighting. PBL did the 3d Printing of the housing for me and I'll add a transparent label to it, so that when craps is open, the lighting in the housing will turn on and also illuminate the signage. Below is a video showing my recent testing of the popper with the new housing and light to test the accuracy of the reading of the dice. In the most recent test of 100 ‘throws’ it got the correct number 98 times, but on one of those the split between the dice was wrong and in two cases, it missed read a 6, due to how close the pips are to each other. I should be able to fix that issue with some tweaks to the software.

    #8 8 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    As I mentioned earlier, it was some of the toy ideas that got me to move forward with Casino. One of the ideas was to use real craps dice in a ‘dice popper’. Many of us played the game Trouble, when we were kids that had the dice bubble in the middle that you would press down on to roll the dice (well in that case it was one die), so the idea was do that kind of a thing and then use a camera to read the dice.
    The first challenge is that webcams are not designed to focus on something that close, so it required a custom one. Then after I got it working, I found that changes in lighting could impact the accuracy of reading the dice, duh. So I recently added a ‘housing’ at the top that holds the camera and an LED ‘ring’ to provide more consistent lighting. PBL did the 3d Printing of the housing for me and I'll add a transparent label to it, so that when craps is open, the lighting in the housing will turn on and also illuminate the signage. Below is a video showing my recent testing of the popper with the new housing and light to test the accuracy of the reading of the dice. In the most recent test of 100 ‘throws’ it got the correct number 98 times, but on one of those the split between the dice was wrong and in two cases, it missed read a 6, due to how close the pips are to each other. I should be able to fix that issue with some tweaks to the software.
    » YouTube video

    That is impressive.

    #9 8 years ago

    Indeed. There are large scale 4-6 player automated craps games in Vegas now, that do *EXACTLY* this on a much larger scale with huge rubber dice. The games we saw were about....10 feet wide? "Dice" the size of a large fist.

    #10 8 years ago

    recently heard about that, but have not seen it yet, wondering if they are using rfid or some other approach vs machine vision. In my game not too concerned if occasionally it gets the split of the dice wrong, which can occur if they are very close tougher that would be a much bigger issue in vegas. They also could be doing pattern matching for dice identification vs clustering analysis. I looked at pattern matching, but would require a lot more work to implement and the results I am getting are certainly good enough.

    #11 8 years ago

    Maybe use infrared paint on the dots, and use an infrared camera?

    Or, maybe an infrared barcode/qcode painted each side of the dice.

    RFID is directionless, so you wouldn't be able to tell which side was which. If there was an RFID chip inside each die, you could probably check that each one was actually there in the jar, but that's about it.

    #12 8 years ago

    detecting the dots themselves is not too hard it is the clustering that is the most challenging. After I capture the image, I convert to grey scale, and to black and white using a threshold that will clearly separate the white pips/contours and then using clustering on those contours to get to what is on each die, two things cause challenges, the pips on a six are so close together that the code that identifies the pips can lump them together and think they are a single pip, so I use some 'dilation' after thresholding to shrink the dots slightly to be sure there is spacing and I need to adjust that slightly to improve the six handling. The clustering can then occasionally cluster wrong and assign a pip to the wrong die. Recently changed the algorithm I was using for the clustering and it seems to be have a very high accuracy rate, as I indicated above.

    #13 8 years ago

    Or, maybe try using opaque dice instead of translucent dice.

    [edit]: nevermind, that probably won't have too much of an effect on the detection method you're using.

    #14 8 years ago

    I can't wait.

    Is-this-your-pen_(resized).jpgIs-this-your-pen_(resized).jpg

    #15 8 years ago

    no doubt opaque would be more legible, as far as not seeing pips from the other sides, and typically the pips are not as big as on vegas dice, but I wanted real vegas craps dice and once I got the lighting consistent, I've been able to get the needed accuracy. Did take time to tweak all of the parameters at each step of the process.

    Here are some images of the results of each step in the process . . .

    Original image taken by camera . .

    original_(resized).pngoriginal_(resized).png

    converted to greyscale

    grey_(resized).pnggrey_(resized).png

    Thresholded and inverted

    threshold_(resized).pngthreshold_(resized).png

    dilated to shrink dots and remove noise . . .

    dilated_(resized).pngdilated_(resized).png

    Original image with clustering results mapped on top of image for debugging.

    result_(resized).pngresult_(resized).png

    #16 8 years ago

    Awesome

    #17 8 years ago

    I have a great future.
    Why not make a hand like Adams family sort of and put a cardsize lcd screen in it.
    When the hand pops up the lcd shows you a card for a 21 game or something.

    #18 8 years ago

    very nice work, lots of creative ideas

    #19 8 years ago

    Wow! Amazing work so far.

    -1
    #20 8 years ago

    Wow, very clever Josh! You never sease to amaze! Looking forward to seeing it in gameplay, so cool!!!!

    #21 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinballwil:

    I have a great future.
    Why not make a hand like Adams family sort of and put a cardsize lcd screen in it.
    When the hand pops up the lcd shows you a card for a 21 game or something.

    I am working on a mini-playfield with five drop targets, with an LCD display mounted above it to show a card for each drop. I had looked at one small LCD per card/target, but the cost and complexity of that was greater and with the one display it will be easier to provide instructions, etc. It will be used for draw poker and black jack, and who knows what else. It will require me to do new ramps so it can fit where I want it, but I've got Matt lined up to help with that. I need MOcean to get me the code snippets he did for curbfeeler on pinbot2.0 for the support of a second display on the pyprocgameHD framework so I can start to play around with it, while I also build/modify the mech for the drop targets, which I want to have full up/down control but with a single solenoid to minimize the footprint.

    #22 8 years ago

    This stuff is so awesome Josh. You should use a player profile concept to let the user have Loyalty Points like they do in the real casinos. Where you can make a free bonus bet or get other comps, the more often you play.

    Casinos are such an awesome vehicle for pinball rules!

    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

    1 week later
    #23 7 years ago

    Made some progress over the weekend on the roulette wheel. I have changed the way the optos are set up. Originally I had a horizontal set for the upper ring/magnet, and then a verical set to detect where the ball was and then a U shape opto under the 'spoked wheel' to detect the home position. The U shape opto had not been implemented due to challenges with getting that postioned, wired, etc. So decided to also make that a vertical pair. When I was looking at that change it struck me that I could also make the magnets optos vertical, which would allow me to make the bracket that holds them much smaller and less obtrusive.

    IMG_1507-2.MOV.png_@_100%_(Layer_2,_RGB_8)_*-2_(resized).pngIMG_1507-2.MOV.png_@_100%_(Layer_2,_RGB_8)_*-2_(resized).png

    Now that I had the 'home position' opto implemented, I was able to finish up the number detection piece. The opto is looking down through the number cover, where there is just one opening which allows it to detect the home position. Once it finds that, it advances the wheel one section at time (36 or 37 pulses to the stepper) to determine where the ball is, it is timed such that it transparent that it is doing this a slot at a time since the wheel does not stop at each section. The timing is key so that a 'spoke' does not make it seem like a ball is in that slot.

    Here is a video with the changes, and a test of the number detection. I've tested it about a half dozen times so far, and it has gotten the correct number each time. I've added chunks of code to handle various failure scenarios (ball falls into lower portion early, ball does not exit correctly, home position not found, ball slot not found, etc.). I'm sure there are a few others that will come to light when I do testing during normal game play.

    #24 7 years ago

    Very cool Josh. Another fun toy working! Great job, watching in earnest at this development.

    2 months later
    #25 7 years ago

    well, about 90 days to Expo, figure I better getting cranking on the next version of Casino if it is going to be there. Have just finished up the CAD diagram and will hopefully have it routed in the next few days. Some big changes planned for this version, including moving to all RGB LEDs and a new mini-playfield with 5 drop targets and a mini-display. However, it will still be a whitewood with no art.

    For the gamblers out there, Vegas odds are 4 against it being playable for expo

    casino_45_V4.pdf_(1_page)_(resized).pngcasino_45_V4.pdf_(1_page)_(resized).png

    #26 7 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    well, about 90 days to Expo

    Oh wow. Now I am stressing! Rally time!

    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

    #27 7 years ago

    I can't wait to see it!

    #28 7 years ago

    Do you have a hole for the lower outermost post on the slings?

    #29 7 years ago

    Great, now I am counting days till. Thanks Josh. ?. Machine is looking great though. Looks nice having the roulette wheel skinned with numbers and colors

    #30 7 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Do you have a hole for the lower outermost post on the slings?

    No, I prefer to 'fit on site' for that, based on which type of post I end up using.

    #31 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bonnevil69:

    Looks nice having the roulette wheel skinned with numbers and colors

    Heck, now it even has a finial.

    #32 7 years ago

    Its about time you get back to this beauty Josh! What RGB LEDs are you going to use? The serial string ones and drive them with a teensy or something else? Very excited to see you back in the swing on Casino.

    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    What RGB LEDs are you going to use?

    I'm using pdb-led controller boards from Gerry (multimorphic) and then led boards that I designed that have a lot of flexibility to how you use them, which can also speed up wiring. I'll post more info on them when I start to install them.

    I am not a huge fan of the serial type for inserts.

    #34 7 years ago

    What is this?
    20160714_103336_(resized).jpg20160714_103336_(resized).jpg

    #35 7 years ago

    A really jankily cut vacuum system.

    Love it! Make sure to do a rail of sawdust for me.

    #36 7 years ago

    about 10 minutes into a 5 hour routing?

    #37 7 years ago

    Correct. The total run time for this playfield is about 4.5 hours since I am running slow. I choose quality of quickness. Unless I am running a test cut.
    20160714_114948_(resized).jpg20160714_114948_(resized).jpg

    #38 7 years ago

    I'm really glad to see that Josh has graduated from manually routing inserts The playfield is in good hands!

    @rosh: Did you do the CAD yourself? If so, very nicely done.

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from Compy:

    I'm really glad to see that Josh has graduated from manually routing inserts The playfield is in good hands!
    @rosh: Did you do the CAD yourself? If so, very nicely done.

    Yes I did it, with my limited self taught CAD skills. It is an updated version of the original cad done for the first white wood, which I used for the manual routing (printed to scale and spray adhesive to the wood). Big issue we ran into is the blocks for the inserts that someone else made and shared, were not the correct sizes and way off for the shape of the arrows (maybe Scott will post a photo of the wood from those test runs). Hopefully we now have them all correct (and properly updated in the CAD).

    For the manual routing I had created templates for the routing that were basically perfect, I had found a great method for creating templates for different inserts by using the actual insert and popsicle sticks to get the spacing right for the bushing on the router, and then a flush bit to cut the template -- it worked great. In two cases I used some tape to tweak the sizing. So the reality is, it sets a pretty high bar relative to quality and fit for the CNC routed one.

    I don't think you saw the manual one, it really was surprising good as far as fit and finish, the biggest drawback to the manual is there is less accuracy around positioning and alignment than with the CNC, since I have to position the template over the insert and hard to get that perfect. Other routes and cuts that were not the inserts, should be much better with the CNC, since I typically did not create templates when routing those and for various cuts, not like I am that perfect in cutting with a jigsaw. Also, a lot less stress relative to the routing, when doing it manually you know that any mistake of significance, could wipe our hours of hard work.

    #42 7 years ago

    I see you grouped the craps targets to all be on the second half to be sure the spacing between them stays precise, glad you remembered that. So, looks like it is about half way there.

    #43 7 years ago

    @rosh, this is awesome! Can't wait to see the finished machine.

    @thenotrashcougar - I love those process pics! Very cool!

    #44 7 years ago

    Here it is in all it's glory! This is by far the most accurate and nice looking playfield I have cut to date. Everything went as planned.
    20160714_143509_(resized).jpg20160714_143509_(resized).jpg
    20160714_145035_(resized).jpg20160714_145035_(resized).jpg

    #45 7 years ago

    from Josh's (Rosh's) little brother....

    Josh, you never cease to amaze...a long long way now from your first 'homebrew pin' made in the family basement during the Nixon administration with a Sears hand drill, finishing nails, and rubber bands!

    BIG PROPS TO THE CNC GUY !!!

    1 week later
    #46 7 years ago

    Update, update, update, update

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    For the manual routing I had created templates for the routing that were basically perfect, I had found a great method for creating templates for different inserts by using the actual insert and popsicle sticks to get the spacing right for the bushing on the router, and then a flush bit to cut the template -- it worked great. In two cases I used some tape to tweak the sizing. So the reality is, it sets a pretty high bar relative to quality and fit for the CNC routed one.
    I don't think you saw the manual one, it really was surprising good as far as fit and finish, the biggest drawback to the manual is there is less accuracy around positioning and alignment than with the CNC, since I have to position the template over the insert and hard to get that perfect. Other routes and cuts that were not the inserts, should be much better with the CNC, since I typically did not create templates when routing those and for various cuts, not like I am that perfect in cutting with a jigsaw. Also, a lot less stress relative to the routing, when doing it manually you know that any mistake of significance, could wipe our hours of hard work.

    Josh, your game looks great! I don't have CAD, so I'm in the process of making templates for manual routing. I've hit a bit of a roadblock, though. Would you be able to post step-by-step pics on how you made your manual templates? I'd like to see the process for making them, then routing the holes to fit flush with the inserts.

    I made a template from 1/8" hardboard with seven shapes, but each one has little misaligned gaps, despite a tight fit. The section on pinball makers is informative, but only has a few pictures. Hopefully you can show us. Good luck with the build!

    #48 7 years ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    Update, update, update, update

    Just got back from vacation today, things will be picking up pace quite quickly. Picking up the routed playfield later today, first run had an issue, but sounds like the latest one is good to go.

    Quoted from JoelOmatik:

    Would you be able to post step-by-step pics on how you made your manual templates?

    you will find some info here . . .
    http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=843.msg7492#msg7492

    For creating the templates, I take the insert and then use 'popsicle' sticks as a spacer between that and strips of wood to create the outline. This gives just the right spacing that matches up with the size of the router bit and the collar.

    IMG_1374_(resized).JPGIMG_1374_(resized).JPG

    Then I take the 1/4" hardboard and use a flush bit to create the template. I first drill a hole in the template material, then center that over the insert shape I created the wood strips to create the shape. I clamp the template to the scrap wood with the wood strip shape.

    IMG_1375_(resized).JPGIMG_1375_(resized).JPG

    I believe, that for most of the templates I use a 1/4 inch bit with a 7/16 collar. I use 3/16 for slots for switches. Somewhere I have some notes on the different combinations.

    IMG_1376_(resized).JPGIMG_1376_(resized).JPG

    If you read the above thread, you will see that I drill out the inside of the insert before routing so there is less material to route out, but then use the route of the outside of the insert to act as the template for then removing the rest of the 'hole' and leaving the necessary lip. It may be the same 7/16 + 1/4 combo, but not sure, I'll see if I can find my notes, It may be a smaller difference between collar and bit.

    IMG_1796_(resized).jpgIMG_1796_(resized).jpg

    I've used tape on one or two to refine the template to give a nice tight fit.

    Hope this helps, let me know what questions you have.

    #49 7 years ago

    Picked up the playfield last night, here is a photo of before I started to removing the waste material (well a few of the inserts have been removed). I finished that up last night, so will now start to get the inserts in. I am missing the small white opaque arrow insert, and pinballlife is out of them, so I'll either be switching that to a larger arrow or making the insert myself. Also have to make the insert for the 'vegas sign'.

    IMG_1798_(resized).JPGIMG_1798_(resized).JPG

    #50 7 years ago

    Thanks, those pictures help a lot! I just ordered some flush trim and other pertinent bits from Amazon to make things easier. Just a few more questions.

    When making the template, is it ok if I use 1/8" hardboard instead of 1/4"?

    Also, when creating the Popsicle/wood strip piece, did you add more strips around the insert area to balance it underneath the template piece? Just wondering how big the overall sizes were for each piece so I know how to stabilize it for routing.

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