(Topic ID: 313545)

Cash transactions and the bank

By mbrave77

3 months ago


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  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by keeganhayes
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    #1 3 months ago

    Question for folks that have been in the pin game a while. Ive been in the hobby about 4 years now. Buy most my pins NiB from distrib but have traded and sold a bunch to fund other pins. So its a common occurance that ill buy a game nib and sell it 6 months to a year later to fund a nib game i have on order.

    Since im buying a nib game I just put the cash from the sale directly in the bank. Then ill pay for new game using a credit card and pay the bill with that cash. Common occurrence right?

    Last time i took a bunch of money out or deposited(i forget which) the bank took like 10 minutes and a manager to clear it. So im guessing that transaction got flagged for some reason.

    Today I sold a game and deposited the cash and the teller actually knew my name before i even got there. So now im wondering if im on some list! Heh.

    I havent made any profits over the years with selling games. Ive lost some(some big) so it all evens out. Im just worried now that my bank thinks im some kind of crime lord.

    Anyway around this without holding a bunch of cash in my house? Do i need to change how i do things?

    #2 3 months ago

    Send all your cash to me and I'll hold onto it until you need it. I promise.

    You're not a crime lord, but you may be a crypto king. I forget the specifics, but banks are now forced to report transactions over a certain $ amount which is lower than previous rules. If you're regularly dealing in muliple $K transactions, you're probably being reported and should keep good receipts. Also, consult with a CPA so you can plan taxes appropriately.

    As usual, it all comes down to taxes.

    #3 3 months ago

    Im not worried about taxes as I havent made any money on pinball. Just now understanding it may look weird to my bank.

    You are saying I should keep receipts when I sell a game to another pinsider? Just like type up one?

    I keep all my receipts from distributor purchases

    #4 3 months ago
    Quoted from mbrave77:

    Last time i took a bunch of money out or deposited(i forget which) the bank took like 10 minutes and a manager to clear it. So im guessing that transaction got flagged for some reason.

    Any large cash deposits/withdrawals require the bank to fill out paperwork and report it to the federal government & IRS.

    Attempts to work around that law to make multiple deposits under the reporting threshold can be considered "structuring", which is illegal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuring

    Quoted from mbrave77:

    Today I sold a game and deposited the cash and the teller actually knew my name before i even got there. So now im wondering if im on some list! Heh.

    Large cash deposits are probably quite unusual these days, so your transaction in the bank probably stood out to the staff there.

    #5 3 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Any large cash deposits/withdrawals require the bank to fill out paperwork and report it to the federal government & IRS.
    Attempts to work around that law to make multiple deposits under the reporting threshold can be considered "structuring", which is illegal.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuring

    Ok good point. I have nothing to hide so Im not too worried about it. I guess ill look into my past sales to pinsiders and make a reciept or something. Will have to remember all the details

    #6 3 months ago

    I also did similar stuff with crypto. I have a separate account for crypto. I would take out cash from one bank, deposit in other and then buy on coinbase. But thats all documented with coinbase and i reported all those gains/losses in 2021

    12
    #7 3 months ago

    Tell them the truth, that you collect pinballs. I told the bank same and they lit up and asked about it. Either that or they will judge you for being a weirdo and stop the conversation. Either way you win!

    #8 3 months ago

    I now keep track of purchases and sales on a spreadsheet with screen shots of my classified ads. When I refinanced my home in early 2021 I had to prove where alot of cash came from. I sold my corvette, my sxs and a few pins. It's crap but this is the new norm.

    #9 3 months ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Tell them the truth, that you collect pinballs. I told the bank same and they lit up and asked about it. Either that or they will judge you for being a weirdo and stop the conversation. Either way you win!

    Oh i did. They gave me a wierd look and i said its for pinball. They were like they cost that much! Yup. Ill ask them about it next time im in.

    #10 3 months ago

    You could get a safety deposit box if you're overly concerned about the tracking. A smaller safety deposit box should run under $75 for a year.

    #11 3 months ago
    Quoted from Bork:

    You could get a safety deposit box if you're overly concerned about the tracking. A smaller safety deposit box should run under $75 for a year.

    I have one. And im not concerned about it. Just made me think about it today. But i buy most my games through distrib. Not sending an envelope of cash there.

    #12 3 months ago

    My bank knows what i’m coming in for. I always tell them i’m buying another pinball machine. They give me a little grief being a small branch and claim not to be able to give the amount i want all at once. But in the end always do. When i sell i like to keep some emergency cash in one of my coin boxes for when the bank is closed and i find a deal i need to grab quick (not really a problem these days..).

    I am always prepared to do this when i go to the bank:

    #13 3 months ago
    Quoted from Completist:

    My bank knows what i’m coming in for. I always tell them i’m buying another pinball machine. They give me a little grief being a small branch and claim not to be able to give the amount i want all at once. But in the end always do. When i sell i like to keep some emergency cash in one of my coin boxes for when the bank is closed and i find a deal i need to grab quick (not really a problem these days..).
    I am always prepared to do this when i go to the bank:

    Ha I remember those commercials. Yea I guess its fine. Like I said I havent made any money in pinball or anything so it has nothing to do with taxes. And I guess the bank can see all my regular W2 income coming in every 2 weeks so they know Im not a full time mobster.

    #14 3 months ago

    It’s called a SAR, Suspicious activity report. The number changed to $3000 after the patriot act. Different banks have enforced it at different times.

    I’m in the cannabis industry and cash pinballs, lol for me. Banks… just did a wire. Made it easy, it’s tracked.

    #15 3 months ago
    Quoted from baltistyle:

    It’s called a SAR, Suspicious activity report. The number changed to $3000 after the patriot act. Different banks have enforced it at different times.

    Got it. Well they are welcome to ask me where the money goes.

    #16 3 months ago

    I had an issue depositing cash and I had to give them my social, drivers license and where the money came from. What happened to this country? This is what i found out at TD bank. If you deposit $10,000 or more in a 15 day period your bank will report it.

    28
    #17 3 months ago

    Start looking for a different bank.
    I was raised old school, it’s my money and it’s not their god damn business what I do with it!!
    The fed can kiss it.
    All that “oh it’s to stop criminals” is bullshit. They are greedy and want to squeeze every dime from you. The criminals know how to get around it and launder money easily.

    It’s a pain and an invasion of privacy, and I found credit unions are great. They have different reporting guidelines and never bat an eye if I take out 10g in a day.

    #18 3 months ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    Start looking for a different bank.
    ...

    Seriously

    #19 3 months ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    Start looking for a different bank.

    As far as I was aware, the SAR was a requirement for all financial institutions, not just limited to banks. Using a credit union isn't a loophole for that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_activity_report

    #20 3 months ago

    Bank teller: "We'll need to know where you obtained all this cash before you can open an account, sir."
    Customer: "I knocked off a heroin dealer and sold his stash. There, ya happy now?"

    #21 3 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    As far as I was aware, the SAR was a requirement for all financial institutions,....

    "...The criteria to decide when a report must be made varies from country to country, but generally is any financial transaction that does not make sense to the financial institution; is unusual for that particular client...."

    Doesn't really seem like they have to report anything by that wording.

    #22 3 months ago

    And they asked for an ID, right?
    My bank started requiring an gov ID to prove I'm the person who is making the deposit or some such bs.
    Even though; it's my account... I'm using my deposit slip... and probably used their bank card to "sign into" the account at the teller.

    I was quiet angry when the did that to me.. I actually made the bank manager come out to my car (in the drive thru) making it clear I wasn't happy that I was depositing cash (less than 600) - the currency of the united states into my account with my deposit slip. And they had the gall to require my id?
    When did it become "ok" for banks to require an ID to transact currency in the account you own?

    I think they made some bs comment about criminals laundering money or some such jazz. I'm sure someone here will point to a "law" which the government enacted that this policy is based upon... but honestly, I'm with the op and others that it's BS.

    #23 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    ...
    When did it become "ok" for banks to require an ID to transact currently in the account you own?

    Hmm...I'm the other way there and they used to ask me for ID. Can't remember if they do now that they make me use the bank card inside..
    I always use the ATM now beacuse...there's no diff'rence

    #24 3 months ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Tell them the truth, that you collect pinballs. I told the bank same and they lit up and asked about it. Either that or they will judge you for being a weirdo and stop the conversation. Either way you win!

    You are exactly right here. I keep no cash on hand but this year I keep selling and buying pinballs, and I’m building a road in my property so I’ve bought and sold 6 trucks and tractors - it is driving my bank crazy so they seem relieved when I tell them exactly what I’m doing. I think it makes their paperwork easier.

    #25 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    "...The criteria to decide when a report must be made varies from country to country, but generally is any financial transaction that does not make sense to the financial institution; is unusual for that particular client...."
    Doesn't really seem like they have to report anything by that wording.

    The key section of that statement is that each country has their own rules and laws. It's not specifically saying that's it's an optional thing in the US.

    https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bank-operations/financial-crime/suspicious-activity-reports/index-suspicious-activity-reports.html

    https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/examinations/supervisory/insights/siwin07/article03_connecting.html#:~:text=Dollar%20Amount%20Thresholds%20%E2%80%93%20Banks%20are,and%20transactions%20aggregating%20%245%2C000%20or

    https://www.ncua.gov/regulation-supervision/manuals-guides/suspicious-activity-report

    Either way, I've haven't really done a dive into banking regulations, hence my assumption.

    The main difference between banks & credit unions is that banks are for-profit institutions, while credit unions are non-profit. As far as I was aware, since they both handle banking activities, they both have to follow most of the same regulatory laws.

    #26 3 months ago
    Quoted from frenchmarky:

    Bank teller: "We'll need to know where you obtained all this cash before you can open an account, sir."
    Customer: "I knocked off a heroin dealer and sold his stash. There, ya happy now?"

    Have a friend that is a LA sherif told a similar story and the bank refused to take his money, even after he showed his badge band ID.

    #27 3 months ago

    As others, and I have said, it’s up to the bank. Being in cannabis with a federally backed banking ability in the US where it’s perceived as not legal or impossible, our company has lots of audits to prove we are following the rules. Here is the real kicker for those that know. Banks can basically do what they want if the create a compliant program of reporting. Our bank is one of the only cannabis banks. It took them having an interested board, wanting to make money and creating a compliant reporting program. It costs us 300k in service fees per year…criminals…If you have lazy bank managers or are dealing with a big company with no ability to treat you as an individual, they are likely the problem. They likely have been in trouble in their compliance….

    So in essence, find a bank person that likes a relationship and they won’t be willing to do the paperwork. Just note your account to include cash from pinballs. Leave any bank that does not trust you, as you are their customer and they work for YOU, not the Fed, as that’s where society got it backwards. ALL fed is to work for us, if not remove the obstruction.

    #28 3 months ago
    Quoted from Judoratt:

    Have a friend that is a LA sherif told a similar story and the bank refused to take his money, even after he showed his badge band ID.

    I would hope the sheriff took that to the local and National news. “Bank refuses law enforcement officers cash”. Probably didn’t cause they realized a law they indirectly supported effected them and the only way to get away from the conflict is to quit their job. Hopefully that sheriff realizes in their instance that they should get another job since many laws are just their to discriminate, not protect. They said their money was legal but why should we believe them? The bank should have called the feds, reported to irs, seized the cash and made them go to court. This person got caught in the system they promote, unfortunate on all sides as both sides believe they are properly government trained, and right, when both are to blame for being ignorant and perpetuating division. Perhaps your friend would have been reported and the teller was helping them out. Perhaps this LA sheriff has stolen drug money? Got to follow the law ya know….”let’s keep this post about pinballs and cash, not cash and banks and law enforcement. They can put that on their private forums. Sorry but it makes me extremely angry when any person enforcing a rule complains when it applies to them. Ultimate Hypocrites undeserving of any attention. They need to read the famous neimoller quote.

    #29 3 months ago

    My bank this week told me they didn't think they had the money I was looking to withdraw for a new pin. It was roughly 11k (two pins). I had no idea that was a thing. This isn't a little bank either. I was polite but was like "you don't have 11k here....at the bank?" LOL. They eventually did but it was like this big deal it was strange to me.

    #30 3 months ago
    Quoted from blastbeat:

    My bank this week told me they didn't think they had the money I was looking to withdraw for a new pin. It was roughly 11k (two pins). I had no idea that was a thing. This isn't a little bank either. I was polite but was like "you don't have 11k here....at the bank?" LOL. They eventually did but it was like this big deal it was strange to me.

    My credit union doesn’t keep large sums of cash on hand. They require 48 hour notice if I’m taking out more than $3k. I’ve never had an issue getting cash when following their guidelines though.

    #31 3 months ago

    Banks may not keep a lot of cash on hand these days and they may keep less up front for security reasons. If I need more than a few thousand, I usually call ahead. For deposits, anything over $5000 and you could be required to fill out some paperwork. I dont know what law it’s specifically covered under but I think has to do with anti-money laundering and terrorist financing.

    #32 3 months ago
    Quoted from mbrave77:

    Anyway around this without holding a bunch of cash in my house? Do i need to change how i do things?

    No you don’t need to change how you do things. Except maybe your tax return. Talk to your CPA about those transactions and see what they think.

    #33 3 months ago

    The banks also seem to punish last minute withdrawals by giving it to you in 20's. (After they try to discourage the withdrawal at all) They figure fuck you, you are inconveniencing us by not calling ahead. People are glad to get anything, so they take it. I look like a drug dealer then depositing those thousands in 20's..

    #34 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    And they asked for an ID, right?
    My bank started requiring an gov ID to prove I'm the person who is making the deposit or some such bs.
    Even though; it's my account... I'm using my deposit slip... and probably used their bank card to "sign into" the account at the teller.
    I was quiet angry when the did that to me.. I actually made the bank manager come out to my car (in the drive thru) making it clear I wasn't happy that I was depositing cash (less than 600) - the currency of the united states into my account with my deposit slip. And they had the gall to require my id?
    When did it become "ok" for banks to require an ID to transact currency in the account you own?
    I think they made some bs comment about criminals laundering money or some such jazz. I'm sure someone here will point to a "law" which the government enacted that this policy is based upon... but honestly, I'm with the op and others that it's BS.

    I've been asked to show ID if I want a balance printed.

    #35 3 months ago
    Quoted from chad:

    I've been asked to show ID if I want a balance printed.

    I always toss my bank my ID. Too much fraud and fat fingers. It takes 10 additional seconds for me to give them my ID.

    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Banks may not keep a lot of cash on hand these days and they may keep less up front for security reasons. If I need more than a few thousand, I usually call ahead. For deposits, anything over $5000 and you could be required to fill out some paperwork. I dont know what law it’s specifically covered under but I think has to do with anti-money laundering and terrorist financing.

    Yeah I just had no idea! Any other time I haven't had an issue but those may have been like 4k or so. I will for sure call ahead in the future. They tried to give all 20s and I said no thanks then they did all large and some 20s. They weren't mean and neither was I which helped.

    #37 3 months ago

    Interestingly, when I deposit very large checks - they always have to call a manager over to authorize the deposit
    Yet, the mobile app lets you deposit up to $100k a day with your phone

    #38 3 months ago

    I went into my local bank to get change of a $20 bill. It turned into a huge p.i.t.a.

    Needed to be a customer of the bank (which I was) and show ID. They blamed it on their "know the customer" rules.

    #39 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    And they asked for an ID, right?
    My bank started requiring an gov ID to prove I'm the person who is making the deposit or some such bs.
    Even though; it's my account... I'm using my deposit slip... and probably used their bank card to "sign into" the account at the teller.
    I was quiet angry when the did that to me.. I actually made the bank manager come out to my car (in the drive thru) making it clear I wasn't happy that I was depositing cash (less than 600) - the currency of the united states into my account with my deposit slip. And they had the gall to require my id?
    When did it become "ok" for banks to require an ID to transact currency in the account you own?
    I think they made some bs comment about criminals laundering money or some such jazz. I'm sure someone here will point to a "law" which the government enacted that this policy is based upon... but honestly, I'm with the op and others that it's BS.

    Sounds like big bank bs like bank of America or Santander.
    Smaller local banks don't do this crap. At least mine doesn't.

    #40 3 months ago

    Safe deposit box for the win. I give a massive percentage of my income to the government, what I do with the rest is my own business.

    #41 3 months ago

    Not sure about any recent changes, but this is how bank reporting actually works:

    The SAR is a Suspicious Activity Report. This is a voluntary reporting and is at the discretion of the teller and the bank you deal with. This can be filed for ANY reason or amount if they think your transactions seem irregular. This is where it may be bank and even bank employee dependent.

    The CTR is a Currency Transaction Report. This is where any cash transactions over $10k MUST be reported to the government. This is not optional, and all institutions must follow this rule. As ForceFlow stated, willful attempts to work around the reporting by making a series of smaller deposits is called 'structuring' and is a criminal offence.

    There are also lower thresholds for reporting the purchase of negotiable instruments with cash, such as cashiers checks. I believe the last I heard, this was $3k.

    #42 3 months ago

    Wells Fargo pulls this bullshit on me all the time. Holding up wires, asking me what i'm doing with the money etc. none of their business and it's bullshit. I always feel like telling them i'm going to buy drugs with it and would love to see their reaction. Still too afraid though. The best part? They always want me to fill out an online survey after a wire.

    #43 3 months ago
    Quoted from SNES:

    My credit union doesn’t keep large sums of cash on hand. They require 48 hour notice if I’m taking out more than $3k. I’ve never had an issue getting cash when following their guidelines though.

    This is standard practice in our Fractional Reserve banking world we find ourselves in.

    Fractional Reserve Banking simply allows the bank to lend the money in your checking and savings accounts to other customers.

    The bank must only keep a small fraction in reserves and the bank can (generally) lend up to 10 times the amount in your bank account. For example, the $1,000 in your savings account can be leveraged into $10,000 of debt. A $10,000 savings account can be leveraged into $100,000 of debt.

    The fact is Fractional Reserve Banking can be used to help your community–by lending money to start a business, or finance the purchase of a home. This is an example where your “saving” can actually help your community, when the savings is used to fund debt.

    Unfortunately, big banking has lost it’s way and “helping” your community will only come in the form of sending more credit card applications in the mail. Serving your community becomes second to profit on Wall Street.

    Fortunately, there are many books you can read to fully understand the devastating results of Fractional Reserve Banking–specifically to the poor and middle class. The good news is that you have the power to cause change, simply by moving your money away from big banking.

    I was asked the other day by an acquaintance who has lots of money in one of the Big Four (banks), “Why should I move my money to a credit union when my bank doesn’t charge me any fees?

    I think it is important to stop asking, “What is in it for me?” The better questions is, “What is the bank doing with my money when I give it to them?” If you support the destruction of the middle class with debt, then keep supporting your local big bank. But when the bank suddenly requires “7 Day written notice” before they will give you your money, you'll wish you had your money in a small local bank.

    #44 3 months ago

    A good video describing the how's and why's of fractional reserve banking:

    #45 3 months ago

    I'm going to take my chances they'll accuse me of structuring by depositing odd small amounts that won't raise eyebrows. Better than the IRS auditing you and asking to see receipts for what you paid and what you sold pins for for the last five years. A spreadsheet or pinside listing isn't going to cut it

    #46 3 months ago

    My local credit union is awesome. I gave up on big banks long ago.
    They are friendly. They always have the cash when I need it. They refinanced my home during the pandemic when rates plummeted and only charged me $1000 total to do the refinance. They are great!

    I always complete a bill of sale when I buy or sell a game. That way I can document how much I paid for a game and how much I sold it for so if the IRS ever does an audit and questions the big cash transactions I can prove if I did or did not make any profits in my hobby.

    The bank does ask some questions and fill out a form when I do anything over 10k in cash, they have to. I just tell them about my hobby and show the bill of sale. they think it’s a cool hobby and they just do what they have to do. It’s no big deal.

    I do highly recommend everyone do a bill of sale. You should document your transactions. If someone claims you stole a game, you have proof. If your house burns down you have proof. If the IRS questions a 12k cash deposit you have proof. Etc……

    #47 3 months ago
    Quoted from Bmanpin:

    Wells Fargo pulls this bullshit on me all the time. Holding up wires, asking me what i'm doing with the money etc. none of their business and it's bullshit. I always feel like telling them i'm going to buy drugs with it and would love to see their reaction. Still too afraid though. The best part? They always want me to fill out an online survey after a wire.

    I've worked in banking risk roles practically my whole career...the piece alot of people are overlooking here is FRAUD. You would be blow away, really, blown away, at the number of scams and frauds people fall for on a daily basis, it's honestly unreal even when I see the numbers. Most of these questions are in place as an attempt to protect the consumer (which is good), but come off as intrusive. I can't speak for every individual, but 99% of the time, the people asking these questions are trying to protect both you and the bank from taking out a large amount of cash that in the likelihood of a scam or fraud cannot be recovered.

    You would be floored at the money that walks out the door and then a client, family member, friend, etc. is back in the bank telling someone they were a victim of a fraud...and if that money is cash, it ain't coming back. I've got no problem admitting that stuff like this is a bit intrusive and awkward, but again, you'd be blown away at the number of people that will tell you they need to get cash for someone that they just met online that needs help, or they need to pay someone to unlock their laptop from a virus, etc.

    The second part of that is the regulatory oversight of banking. It's INCREDIBLY regulated, and INCREDIBLY consumer focused, which is good for you and me as customers. If a consumer makes a formal complaint to a regulatory agency (ESPECIALLY the CFPB) it's now on the bank to prove they took all possible measured to protect the consumer, which in cases like large cash transactions, means did they feel the transaction was legitimate, did they offer the consumer other options (can we wire the money for you instead, etc.).

    Anyway, it doesn't make it less annoying, but this is the modern banking world these days, and alot of it is the bank trying to protect both the customer and itself at the same time.

    #48 3 months ago

    Banks also have to be very careful about their deposit accounts and keeping those depositors. The US banking system runs on an approach known as fractional reserve banking. They are not required to maintain all their depositor funds in the vault, as far as physical cash is concerned.

    A portion, or the majority, of cash people deposit is used to fund the bank operations and used as credit to lend out to new borrowers. This is how banks make money. Any additional money needed is also borrowed from the Federal Reserve, which is not owned by the US government. This in my opinion is unethical, and countless banks have failed or been run on throughout history over this structure.

    This country operates on debt, and we have been happy to print money (debt) out of thin air for generations. Who is going to pay the debt? It is you and me with our ever increasingly worthless dollars.

    #49 3 months ago

    Wells Fargo requires you show ID when making a deposit as only the account holder is allowed to make a deposit.
    I asked my teller if I needed 40k would they have it available they just laughed and said of course.So I said go get it
    and bought another HotRod.

    #50 3 months ago

    Any US bank is required to fill out a form and report to the federal government any cash transaction over $10K as part of the 1970 Bank Secrecy Act in an effort to combat money laundering. Having been a commercial teller years ago, I personally filled out several of these on a weekly basis as standard operating procedure.

    If your cash transaction was less than $10K, then it is none of their business. However, I will say that if you use a major bank with several locations, only some of them will be equipped to handle large cash transactions (well, they will take your money but may not keep enough cash on hand to give you that much). In my case, I recently needed about $30K in cash for some home repairs and my local branch could not handle the transaction. They called a larger branch a few miles away and they handled it for me. They knew I was coming, and it took awhile since tellers don't keep that much cash in their drawers so they had to go through their vault access procedures, the count had to be authenticated by a manager, and I made them both watch as I counted the cash in front of them.

    Depending on your bank, tellers are encouraged/required to know/recognize large depositors for customer service purposes. When I was a teller, we received a couple of reports every morning to review. Once was an overdraft list so that we were aware if these customers visited, and the other was a large depositors and/or recent large transactions so we could be extra friendly/helpful to those customers.

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