Captain Fantastic wont stop resetting....from soon to be less newbie

0

#1 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Hey 4Max, (Now hey to everyone out there)

About a year ago you posted a picture of your captain fantastic machines game over interlock relay on this thread

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/captain-fantastic-need-hi-res-pic-of-game-over-interlock-relay

I recently bought a Captain Fantastic machine and I have had it about a month when all of a sudden the machine continuously resets itself and the score motor never stops and the drop targets keep resetting continuously.

I really do want to learn about this machine and I know it will take time. I opened up the machine, turned it on, then hit the start game button and noticed my GAME OVER INTERLOCK RELAY sparked when it first came on (only sparked once, does not continue to spark during each reset) Anyway intuition told me that just maybe that isn't right and it could be the heart of my problem. I took a picture and tried to compare it to yours but again I'm not terribly sure what I am looking at.

I have attached pictures of the GOIR when the power is off and when the machine endlessly cycles. The first picture is when it is off. Could you look at them and tell me if you think I might have a problem here? Any help would be soooooooooo appreciated. Also looking at them, do they look really dirty? They do to me, what is the best way to clean them?

Sooooooo Max was kind enough to reply and send me here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. What does "pull the plastic" mean? Yup.....newbie!

Bland in Atlanta

Hi Bland

Well first step is to create a new thread in the EM Tech section, you will get lots of help. Plus I've recently moved house so am still trying to find where all my schematics are. By the way, you will need a CF schematic sooner rather than later. And not sure hoe much help i can give with all the other stuff going on.

But, had a quick look, and your GOIR does not look in too bad shape, but yes I would start here. Manually (with the power off!) just pull the plastic as if the coil with white label is pulled in (the green label coil will keep it there) and then pull in the green one which releases the white one. The 7 switches must change state - meaning be obviously closed or open. You will need a flexstone to give them a simple clean. This place has everything you need http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html

So, start a new thread. copy in your questions and photos (they are good!) feel free to copy in my response, and then let the all the experts on the site guide you - initially it is a little overwhelming but I assure you over time it all falls into place.

Pinball off (resized).jpg

Pinball on2 (resized).jpg

0

#2 5 years ago

???

flipnout1

Pinside member

11y 72,050 940

I'm assuming by resetting you mean that when you push the start button the score motor and all the score reels continue to run without stopping. On EMs all units need to reset to zero before it will start a game. Sounds like one or more is not. Score motor should rotate three revolutions which gives all score reels and player, ball in play units time to get to zero. If not the score motor will continue trying. Most common problem is one of the score reels doesn't reset to zero

0

#3 5 years ago

DAN

4Max

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 53,900 471

FB03, good job starting the thread.

Flipnout1 makes a good point, which needs you to provide more details on the "continuous reset" - he is asking if all the score reels reset to 0? Maybe one is sticking on a number >0, and you can focus on that. If they all reset to 0, it rules them out partly, not completely as actually what happens when a reel hits zero a switch on the reel itself "opens" - when all the reels are 0 and therefore all those switches are open on all reels, then the score motor stops turning.

So one step at a time:

Do all reels reset to 0?

You can also check the GOIR. When I say pull the plastic let me explain better. See your photo below, press the metal "armature" towards the green coil (blue arrow) - the white plastic (my red line) will move down and the 7 switches (my yellow lines) will change, most will change from closed to open (like the upper top 2 that have bigger contact points), some are make/break switches where a "middle" leaf moves and opens from leaf above it and closes to the leaf below it (as you look from above).

Ok thats a lot to take in, but with the power off at least try moving the armatures of the green and white coils and see if all the switches "look" ok.

pb1 (resized).jpg

If you want to maintain this machine longer term, I'd suggest you read this - sooner rather than later

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

and this:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic

Good luck and keep posting the results. One step at a time...

0

#4 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from flipnout1:
I'm assuming by resetting you mean that when you push the start button the score motor and all the score reels continue to run without stopping. On EMs all units need to reset to zero before it will start a game. Sounds like one or more is not. Score motor should rotate three revolutions which gives all score reels and player, ball in play units time to get to zero. If not the score motor will continue trying. Most common problem is one of the score reels doesn't reset to zero

I put scores on all four players, turned off the power, turned on the power, hit the start button and all scores zeroed out. As the score motor continued to run and the drop targets kept restetting whi a ball was in play the machine moved to the next player with every reset while the same ball was in play (hope I explained that clearly, thought it might help.)

Quoted from 4Max:
FB03, good job starting the thread.
Flipnout1 makes a good point, which needs you to provide more details on the "continuous reset" - he is asking if all the score reels reset to 0? Maybe one is sticking on a number >0, and you can focus on that. If they all reset to 0, it rules them out partly, not completely as actually what happens when a reel hits zero a switch on the reel itself "opens" - when all the reels are 0 and therefore all those switches are open on all reels, then the score motor stops turning.
So one step at a time:
Do all reels reset to 0?
You can also check the GOIR. When I say pull the plastic let me explain better. See your photo below, press the metal "armature" towards the green coil (blue arrow) - the white plastic (my red line) will move down and the 7 switches (my yellow lines) will change, most will change from closed to open (like the upper top 2 that have bigger contact points), some are make/break switches where a "middle" leaf moves and opens from leaf above it and closes to the leaf below it (as you look from above).
Ok thats a lot to take in, but with the power off at least try moving the armatures of the green and white coils and see if all the switches "look" ok.

If you want to maintain this machine longer term, I'd suggest you read this - sooner rather than later
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
and this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic
Good luck and keep posting the results. One step at a time...

0

#5 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from 4Max:

You can also check the GOIR. When I say pull the plastic let me explain better. See your photo below, press the metal "armature" towards the green coil (blue arrow) - the white plastic (my red line) will move down and the 7 switches (my yellow lines) will change, most will change from closed to open (like the upper top 2 that have bigger contact points), some are make/break switches where a "middle" leaf moves and opens from leaf above it and closes to the leaf below it (as you look from above).
Ok thats a lot to take in, but with the power off at least try moving the armatures of the green and white coils and see if all the switches "look" ok.

Ok I moved the green and white armatures as you said, moved them a couple of times. When i pushed in the green armature it looks like all of the closed switches opened and the two make/break went from open to closed, at least thats what i see. The first picture is with the green pushed in and the second is with the white pushed in. As I see this there are 5 switches (in blue) and 2 make/breaks (red) from what I can tell when the green is pushed in 3 of the switches are closed as are both make/breaks, when I push in the white each switch and make break are opposite. Am I reading this right? Are these as they should be?

Again thanks for the help.

InkedGreen pushed in_LI (resized).jpg

InkedWhite pushed in_LI (resized).jpg

0

#6 5 years ago

STC

chas10e

Pinside member

Kittery, ME

8y 51,550 1,311 7

sounds like a stuck outhole switch ... it thinks the ball drained & resets to the next player (or ball for a 1 player game)

0

#7 5 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Boulder, CO

7y 78,050 6,260

OP
Quoted from FBO3:
I put scores on all four players, turned off the power, turned on the power, hit the start button and all scores zeroed out. As the score motor continued to run and the drop targets kept restetting whi a ball was in play the machine moved to the next player with every reset while the same ball was in play (hope I explained that clearly, thought it might help.)

Does the Game Over Interlock relay latch during startup? I'm referring to the white coil with the Brown&Yellow wire in your picture in post #5.

0

#8 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from HowardR:
Does the Game Over Interlock relay latch during startup? I'm referring to the white coil with the Brown&Yellow wire in your picture in post #5.

I hate to sound ignorant but i am trying to learn.. When you say "latch" is that the top picture of post 5 or the bottom?

0

#9 5 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Boulder, CO

7y 78,050 6,260

I wasn't born knowing this stuff either and good instinct to ask instead of guessing.

The bottom picture

0

#10 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from HowardR:
I wasn't born knowing this stuff either and good instinct to ask instead of guessing.
The bottom picture

Yes it does latch and stays latched...........

0

#11 5 years ago

???

flipnout1

Pinside member

11y 72,050 940

OP
Quoted from FBO3:
I put scores on all four players, turned off the power, turned on the power, hit the start button and all scores zeroed out. As the score motor continued to run and the drop targets kept restetting whi a ball was in play the machine moved to the next player with every reset while the same ball was in play (hope I explained that clearly, thought it might help.)

Everything needs to go back to the home or zero position not just the score reels. So if the drop targets are still going up and down and the next player keeps going sounds like both of them are not in the home position. Move the player up to home and check that the switch is actuating and with a meter check the resistance to see if its near zero. Cleaning contacts without checking with a meter doesn't ensure you that they have zero resistance. Same with the drop targets or anything else that keeps running. Sounds like all score reels reset to zero as they should so its not them. Check ball in play as well.

0

#12 5 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Boulder, CO

7y 78,050 6,260

If the Outhole relay energizes and the Outhole solenoid doesn't, inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Pinball (resized).png

0

#13 5 years ago

CJ

Chrisbee

Pinside member

11y 66,150 3,054 8

OP
Quoted from FBO3:
I put scores on all four players, turned off the power, turned on the power, hit the start button and all scores zeroed out. As the score motor continued to run and the drop targets kept restetting whi a ball was in play the machine moved to the next player with every reset while the same ball was in play (hope I explained that clearly, thought it might help.)

We need to clear this up.

Are you saying that you turn on the power and start a new game? The machine resets and kicks a ball out to the shooter lane? The scr motor keeps running, the drop targets reset and the player advance to the next player with each target reset?

0

#14 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from Chrisbee:
We need to clear this up.
Are you saying that you turn on the power and start a new game? The machine resets and kicks a ball out to the shooter lane? The scr motor keeps running, the drop targets reset and the player advance to the next player with each target reset?

Yes, if I play a ball while the machine keeps resetting and the score motor continues and the drop targets keep resetting, as the ball is playing each time the machine resets the scoring on the playing field moves to the next player. I hope I am clear on that.

0

#15 5 years ago

CJ

Chrisbee

Pinside member

11y 66,150 3,054 8

OP
Quoted from FBO3:
as the ball is playing each time the machine resets the scoring on the playing field moves to the next player.

Cool. To allow the player up to change during game play means that there must be a miss adjust SW on the Out hole RE or the Outhole RE is energised. The Outhole RE can also keep the scr motor running. Let’s start here. 1st thing, is the Outhole RE energised with the ball in the shooter lane?
The ball index RE will close as soon as any points are scored.

If the Outhole RE is not energised, then check the SW on it are correctly set. The SW with Yellow wire and Blue/Orange wire should be open when de-energised.

Help (resized).jpg

0

#16 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from Chrisbee:
Cool. To allow the player up to change during game play means that there must be a miss adjust SW on the Out hole RE or the Outhole RE is energised. The Outhole RE can also keep the scr motor running. Let’s start here. 1st thing, is the Outhole RE energised with the ball in the shooter lane?
The ball index RE will close as soon as any points are scored.
If the Outhole RE is not energised, then check the SW on it are correctly set. The SW with Yellow wire and Blue/Orange wire should be open when de-energised.

Chrisbee, thank you so much for your interest in helping me, I am dying to learn but this is pretty new and overwhelming to me.

I can't find the Outhole RE I have searched and searched and some of the relays have names on them (I can identify those!) but I have search for Outhole RE and Ball Index RE and Extra Ball RE and I'll be darned if I cant find any of them.

Can you give me a starting point as to where these relays might be?

Thanks agian for your help and the patience that no doubt I am counting on!

0

#17 5 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Boulder, CO

7y 78,050 6,260

OP
Quoted from FBO3:
I can't find the Outhole RE

Most likely all 3 of those relays are on the bottom board with the motor and transformer. Here are some clues to identifying the Outhole relay from the schematic. Also if the machine is pretty close to working, you can activate relays with your finger and see if that activates the Outhole Kicker solenoid.

Pinball (resized).png

0

#18 5 years ago

OP

???

FBO3

Inactive member

Unknown

5y 11,500 8

Quoted from HowardR:
Most likely all 3 of those relays are on the bottom board with the motor and transformer. Here are some clues to identifying the Outhole relay from the schematic. Also if the machine is pretty close to working, you can activate relays with your finger and see if that activates the Outhole Kicker solenoid.
[quoted image]

OK, sorry I have had a lot of work things come up and I have tried to read up on Schematics (that isn't going so well). Any way I think I have located the outhole relay. When I turn the machine on this relay opens and closes continuously. The picture is of the relay with the power turned off.

One other thing I noticed, the BONUS UNIT stepper kept firing to but it didn't look like any of the gears were moving. So then where the arm was slightly moving but not engaging the gear. So I then manually engaged the gear, turned it on and it stopped with the continuous resets!!!!!!! Then I put the playing field back down in excitement!!! Put the ball in, fired it up, hit start and i'll be darned if it didn't start resettig again. I turned if off, then turned it back on and.....wait for it......keep waiting for it.......stilll waiting for it........yep...nothing. No lights, no nothing, I can hear something hum, I'm guessing the transformer but nothing else comes on.

Please tell me I haven't screwed the pooch on this one.

20180802_203318 (resized).jpg

20180802_205530 (resized).jpg

0

#19 4 years ago

WOZ

woz

Pinside member

14y 77,050 1,866

FBO3 did you ever figure out what the problem was?

0

#20 3 months ago

CCO

pinballboy

Pinside+ Frequent

3y 56,400 359 6 18

OP
Quoted from FBO3:
OK, sorry I have had a lot of work things come up and I have tried to read up on Schematics (that isn't going so well). Any way I think I have located the outhole relay. When I turn the machine on this relay opens and closes continuously. The picture is of the relay with the power turned off.
One other thing I noticed, the BONUS UNIT stepper kept firing to but it didn't look like any of the gears were moving. So then where the arm was slightly moving but not engaging the gear. So I then manually engaged the gear, turned it on and it stopped with the continuous resets!!!!!!! Then I put the playing field back down in excitement!!! Put the ball in, fired it up, hit start and i'll be darned if it didn't start resettig again. I turned if off, then turned it back on and.....wait for it......keep waiting for it.......stilll waiting for it........yep...nothing. No lights, no nothing, I can hear something hum, I'm guessing the transformer but nothing else comes on.
Please tell me I haven't screwed the pooch on this one.[quoted image][quoted image]

Did you figure it out?

By FBO3

5 years ago

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