(Topic ID: 184428)

Captain Fantastic Single Player Moves to All 4

By KansasPinball

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

0Captn-Fantastic-Work-15 (resized).jpg
0Captn-Fantastic-Work-10 (resized).jpg
0Captn-Fantastic-Work-01 (resized).jpg
captain-fantastic-pinball_9966 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider rolf_martin_062.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#14 7 years ago

Hi KansasPinball +
I also believe the Coin-Unit and the Player-Unit do not communicate well. What happens when You start a FOUR-Player-Game ? Can You play it ? What ... THREE, What ... TWO ?

IF (if) You can play a 4,3,2 player-game: Your problems are only "along my red lines".
Want to cheat a bit - establishing a permanent Jumper*** "my green line" ? With this You should be able to play a ONE-Player-game - ONLY a one-Player-Game.
Jumper*** from wire-grey-red to wire-orange-white.

Look at You Player-Unit - wire-color-grey-red is soldered-on onto a solder-lug, inside the unit is a connection to a wiper - when "first-up": The wiper rides on a rivet "having no connection". When it is "second player is playing": The wiper rides on a rivet having connection to wire-color-white-brown. When it is "third player is playing": The wiper rides on a rivet having connection to wire-color-white-yellow. When it is "fourth player is playing": The wiper rides on a rivet having connection to wire-color-orange-white. Greetings Rolf

0Captn-Fantastic-Work-01 (resized).jpg0Captn-Fantastic-Work-01 (resized).jpg

#20 7 years ago

Hi Doug
I sometimes like to "sneak-in a fault" into the pin - just for me to learn about the pin and to check my "understanding".
See the JPG - want to try (?): Sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the switchblades of Number-1-Reset-Relay - the switch for to reset Player-1-Score-Drum-10-to-90. The stripe of paper makes this switch FAULTY always open - the Score-Drum does no longer reset. (((Maybe the pin comes into an endless loop "trying to reset"))).

OK - then pull the stripe of paper out - then try to sneak-in a stripe of paper into Switch on the Score-Drum in-between blade-with-wire-orange-black and blade-with-wire-red-black, the stripe of paper makes this switch FAULTY always open - the Score-Drum does no longer reset. (((Maybe the pin comes into an endless loop "trying to reset"))).

OK - then pull the stripe of paper out - You are familiar with the area - investigate on Your problematic 100's and 1000's Score-Drums. Greetings Rolf

0Captn-Fantastic-Work-10 (resized).jpg0Captn-Fantastic-Work-10 (resized).jpg

2 weeks later
#31 7 years ago

Hi Doug and Skippy2904
the manufacturers liked to have some action on the playfield - maybe changing bumpers lightet left-right-left-right- or turning a light on --- then off --- then on etc. See http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=438&picno=52054&zoom=1 now and then the middle lane is lighted and invitates You "HERE You can open the gate".
Many such features are operated by an "Change Relay" or "Alternate Relay" and in Your pin it is called "Alternator-Relay". It is made pulling and stays pulling for some seconds - then it is made non-pulling and stays non-pulling for some seconds. And the feeding electricity to the Alt.-Relay is done by a switch (sometimes open - sometimes closed) on the "00 to 90 Unit" - often called "Number-Match-Unit" - a Stepper with 10 different stable positions. On the axis there are some teeth actuating the switch --- or wipers on the bakelite handle it: Connection - no connection - connection - no connection etc so the Alt.-Relay is made pull-in / not pulling-in.

Skippy2904 - do the bumpers in You pin change "lit / unlit" ? Do You ever get the "invitation light": The ball rolling through HERE opens the Gate" ?

Lift the playfield (be cautios: 50 VOLTS AC can kill You) - look at the mechanics on the underside of the playfield - the "Gate" is actually a relay - has a coil and one (maybe 2,3,4) switch(es). A short wire runs from "one side of the COIL to 'Switch mounted on the relay' " --- this is the so-called "Self-Hold-Switch of the relay". Have the pin running (a ball is in play) - take a Screwdriver with INSULATED handle and hold the tip of the Screwdriver at the TWO Switchblades of this Self-Hold-Switch - You make connection - question: Does the Gate-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling ? Means: Does the Gate open and stays open ?

In the JPG You see: "1" is closed (accidentally), "2" does close as the ball rolls through the lane, "3" pulls and so closes "4 the Self-Hold-Switch" - the "3" stays pulling.
When You use the gate: "5" is opened through its pulling relay - the Score-Motor is made running so "7" also opens - no more Self-Hold-Connection - "3" let go and so "4" also opens - feature has finished.
When You do not use the gate: When You then loose the ball and the pin changes to next ball / next player: The Outhole-Relay is made pulling and the Score-Motor is made running --- the Gate closes. Greetings Rolf

0Captn-Fantastic-Work-15 (resized).jpg0Captn-Fantastic-Work-15 (resized).jpg

#34 7 years ago

Hi Skippy2904
here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm then http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#buzz --- per definition "what is a relay (?)" the "Gate-Goodie" is an Relay while the thing mounted on the Coin-Door (another noisy thing called Coin-Lockout-Coil) is "only" a coil.
The definition of "relay" is: An mechanical thing that has a coil and the coil (getting current) through magnetic force makes (at least) ONE or 2,3,4 ... electrical Switch(es) close or open. And the noisy Coin-Lockout-Coil moves a rod so coins thrown-in at a "not good moment" are reflected towards Coin-Back-department. NO SWITCH on the Coin-Lockout-Coil therefore it is NOT a Relay.

The Gate-Goodie does have at least ONE Switch - the Switch to "have Self-Hold-Current, Self-Hold-Circuitry" so it is called Gate-RELAY.
Pinrepair talks about the "Spring pulling back the armature" --- this spring and the fluttering AC-magnetic-field FIGHT on "possession of the armature". But a GATE-Relay has the mechanical stuff (we like it - the Gate-Function) --- so it is a tricky thing to "fumble on the retaining spring" on a Gate-Relay. Greetings Rolf

#35 7 years ago

Hi Doug
here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair then http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Bally_Score_Motor and nice http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:BallyScoreMotor3-4View.jpg (from left to right the Cams "SCM-1", 2,3,4,5 ...). Here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bally_Motor_Switch_Levels.JPG on a given cam: The levels - we see (cam 1) SCM-1A, SCM-1B, SCM-1C, SCM-1D.
Here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bally_score_motor_timing_1975.jpg there is the "timing chart" - the cams are shown top-down --- from left to the right is shown a FULL revolution. The definiton of on Bally and Williams "a TURN" is "HALF a revolution, turn of 180 degrees". Position "0" is "at home, Motor is not running" - then positions "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6", "7" comes one after the other as the Motor makes a turn (((of 180 degrees))) - and the end of a turn is: Reaches again "position 0" and stops.
Unfortunately the "timing chart in pinwiki" does NOT match the "picture of the Bally Score-Motor in pinwiki" --- they write: Picture shows the motor of Night Rider - we must look at ipdb-schematics: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1677/Bally_Night_Rider_Schematic.pdf - at ipdb-schematics-A/B-1/2 is the corresponding timing chart - TWELVE cams are shown.

Something rather seldom: Look in the schematics at "cam 12" --- see "actuated on left-0,1,2,3,4,5" then NOT actuated on "left-6,7,right-0,1,2,3,4,5" then "actuated on left-6,7".
Therefore on Nightrider the "cam 12" is NOT (180 degrees) symmetrical. ALL other cams are (180 degrees) symmetrical. The reason / purpose of the cam-12: It has the function of (other solution would be) "Alternating-Relay, Change-Relay".

Lets look in the ipdb-schematics of Capt. Fantastic at Schematics-A/B-35/36/37. ELEVEN cams - everything is (180 degrees) symmetrical. The "cam 2" does pulse all it switches (SCM-2A, SCM-2B, SCM-2C, SCM-2D, (maybe -E, maybe -F (?)) - "cam 2" pulses FIVE times per turn. "Cam 7" actuates its switchstack ONCE in a turn --- rather to the end of a turn - at positon-5.

Lets look again at post-31, JPG --- the "green-1,2" I call "Initial-Current, Initial-Circuitry" so the "green-3" starts pulling --- as it pulls: The switches are moved and the closing "green-4" enables "Self-Hold-Current, Self-Hold-Circuitry". AS SOON as "green-4" closes / is closed: "green-1,2" can open.

Let us let roll the ball through the open gate --- You will be rewarded with some points - the "Bottom Lane Gate 300 Relay" is made pulling (it establishes its own Self-Hold-Circuitry) - the "green-5" does open - NOW the "green-3" STILL pulls (Self-Hold-Circuitry through "green-4,7"). But the "Bottom Lane Gate 300 Relay" makes /made the Score-Motor do a turn --- so time comes when the Motor actuates "cam 7" - SCM-7B opens and the Gate-Relay (green-3) looses Self-Hold-Current and quits pulling so "green-4" opens.
Bally made this (SCM-7) to have a "delay / time elapses" - Ball rolls through the open gate --- after a short period of time the gaten then closes.
This "delay / time elapses" may not be needed when the pin simply changes to the next ball / next player (pulling Outhole-Relay - the Outhole-Relay also makes the Motor do a turn) --- but it is there - we must accept this as a fact. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: Do You have faults in the pin ? - Write.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 15,000.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
2,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Woodhaven, MI
9,500 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Homer Glen, IL
$ 12,000.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider rolf_martin_062.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/captain-fantastic-single-player-moves-to-all-4?tu=rolf_martin_062 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.