(Topic ID: 282561)

Captain Fantastic help needed, player up unit

By TheWiz

3 years ago



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  • 6 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by TheWiz
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Captain Fantastic Player Reset relay (resized).jpg
5BD532DE-BB5B-438A-BB19-6E87D79B2C18 (resized).jpeg
#1 3 years ago

Machine starts up and resets properly. Insert coin and player 1 lights up, ball 1. Score points, ball goes to out hole, bonus added then player up goes to player 2. Score points, ball in out hole then it goes to player 3, this keeps up until it gets to player 4 then it stays there until ball count goes to 5 and game over.

If set for 3 balls per game it goes player 1, 2 ,3 then game over. If I start a 5 ball, 2 player game it goes player 1,2,3,4 then each drained ball the ball in play increments.

Problem is the player up stepper in the head increments every time a ball drains regardless of the number of players. I am not sure of how this is supposed to work. It seems it should have something to do with the player reset relay but I get lost in the schematics. Can someone explain the sequence of operation for a 1 player game?

All steppers have been cleaned and operate nicely, all relay switches have been cleaned and adjusted, all coils are good. There was some previous work done around the player reset relay and there was a broken wire there that I repaired.

Thanks for any help that can be provided.

#2 3 years ago

Check the advance ball count end of stroke switch.

#3 3 years ago

This circuit is described some in these topics:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ball-advance-and-player-count-not-working-bally-captain-fantastic
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-old-chicago-won-t-score-properly-for-2-4-players
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1-credit-playing-multi-player-game

Essentially the Ball Count should only advance after the appropriate number of players have played the current ball. Once the Ball Count advances it should fire the Player Reset relay which should reset the Player Up Unit back to player 1. It sounds like either the Player Reset relay isn't firing, or the switch on that relay isn't resetting the Player Up Unit.

/Mark

#4 3 years ago

Thanks for the replies. The EOS on the ball count is okay. I read through the links provided several times, 2 of which I had seen before.

Still don’t understand what is supposed to keep the player up step up coil from firing. I can put a piece of paper in 4B SCM and it doesn’t fire and I can play a 1 player game. So it seems like the player reset relay needs to be energized to keep the player up step up coil from stepping. It does fire but only very briefly. I will try decreasing the gap on the EOS ball count unit to see if that helps.

5BD532DE-BB5B-438A-BB19-6E87D79B2C18 (resized).jpeg5BD532DE-BB5B-438A-BB19-6E87D79B2C18 (resized).jpeg
#5 3 years ago
Quoted from TheWiz:

I can put a piece of paper in 4B SCM and it doesn’t fire and I can play a 1 player game. So it seems like the player reset relay needs to be energized to keep the player up step up coil from stepping.

Good observation. The Player Up unit should advance every time the ball drains, except when the ball count advances. When the Ball Count unit advances its EOS switch should fire the Player Reset relay which is intended to return the Player Up unit back to player 1.

The 4B switch you blocked generates a pulse when the ball drains. Normally that pulse goes up through the Make/Break switch on the Player Reset relay to the Player Up Unit S.U. (step up) solenoid which advances the unit to the next player. When the Ball Count advances however it fires the Player Reset relay which puts the Make/Break switch in the other position sending the pulse to the Player Up Unit reset solenoid instead. By blocking the 4B switch you're preventing both the advancing and resetting of the Player Up unit which keeps the unit at Player 1 which happens to work for a 1 player game.

Quoted from TheWiz:

So it seems like the player reset relay needs to be energized to keep the player up step up coil from stepping. It does fire but only very briefly.

That may ultimately be the problem.
Captain Fantastic Player Reset relay (resized).jpgCaptain Fantastic Player Reset relay (resized).jpg
Once activated the Player Reset relay should lock on using its own lock in switch and a Make/Break switch at 1C on the Score Motor and stay active through the end of the end of the Score Motor cycle which is a 180 degree turn of the motor. If it fires only briefly it's likely because it releases as soon as the Ball Count EOS switch opens.

The Motor 1C switch should be in the switch stack on the 1st cam counting out from the score motor, 3rd switch up from the bottom. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sky-kings-power-free-play-and-top-hole-issue#post-4457680

#6 3 years ago

Thank you MarkG , it was the motor 1C switch! I’m glad it was not the player reset relay that is clear in the back of the bottom board, lol. It only took the smallest amount of tweaking. I played a 3 ball 1 player game and a 2 player game and it worked fine. Now I need to continue to check out the rest of the functions.

Thanks again for clearly explaining how this circuit works. I may have gotten there myself but it would have taken a couple of days so thanks for saving me some work.

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