(Topic ID: 185432)

Captain F starts out at 4000 bonus?

By mrbanjo

6 years ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by mrbanjo
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#1 6 years ago

Instead of constantly starting with 1000 points on the bonus, when ball is kicked to shooter lane, occasionally it jumps to 4000.....
Its Always 4000 too.
Maybe 3 out of 5 times it does this.
Either 1000 or 4000
The switches on the bonus unit look good, the stepper gear looks good and the solenoids were cleaned and look good
Could this be score motor issue?

#2 6 years ago

Your bonus unit is not resetting all of the way. Either it is gummed up, or if it resets one position at a time (similar to when the ball drains) then the score motor could be involved as an issue but unlikely especially with that kind of consistency. Surely this only happens when you end the game with a bonus above or at 4,000?

#3 6 years ago

It does count completely down, then you hear and see it advance 4 times instead of stepping up once
about 3 out of 4 times it does this

#4 6 years ago

Hi mrbanjo
in a running pin should happen "encircled green". When it comes to stepping on player / ball - the Outhole-Relay is activated - it pulls-in, makes the Score-Motor do ONE turn (of 180 degrees) - stepping on ball / player - the Kicker to kick the ball over is activated & fires --- SCM-6C and pulling Outhole-Relay means closed switch: ONE Bonus is stepped-up - THEN the Score-Motor stops.

ONE turn of the Score-Motor is wanted / needed - question - when Your pin acts faulty: Does the Score-Motor makes three more (unwanted) turns ?

To start troubleshooting: Locate this "Switch on Outhole-Relay" - and sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the contact-points - MAKE this switch faulty always open. Then play a couple of games --- Do You get sometimes "bonus stepped-up" ? Then the fault is somewhere in "other marked switches" --- You never get "bonus stepped-up" ? Then we must ask about "faulty to meany turns" of the Score-Motor. Greetings Rolf

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#5 6 years ago

Still working on the issue.............tried some of the switches above nothing changed

#6 6 years ago

Hi mrbanjo
The "Switch on Outhole-Relay" is an Normally-Open-Switch (open when the relay is not pulling) . It has wire-color-84-Black-Green soldered-on, it has wire-color-21-Blue-Red soldered-on. You sneak-in a stripe of paper (for insulation) in-between the two contact-points on the two blades - HERE IS OPEN. You have inspected the other side (where short studs come out of the bakelite holding of this switch, where the wires are soldered-on) - NO DROP of solder fallen there making faulty connection --- NO DOG-HAIR crap of wire there making faulty connection --- THIS Switch is TRUELY ALWAYS OPEN.

You wrote: "One out of three is good - one bonus given --- two out of three faulty 4 bonus given".
WITH this switch kept always open do play --- what do You have ?
AAA1 means "One out of three is good - one bonus given --- two out of three faulty 4 bonus given".
BBB1 means "One out of three is zero bonus given --- two out of three faulty 3 bonus given".
CCC1 means "ALWAYS zero bonus given".
DDD1 means other situation --- please write about.

The AAA1 would be an "non pleasing miracle" - the best explanation I'd have to this would be "You are at another OutholeRelay-Switch.
CCC1 means: The fault must be "Outhole-Relay" - sometimes it is made pulling to long which makes the Score-Motor to do to many turns --- the "kept-open Switch" successfully hinders the stepping-up on the bonus-ladder (but of course: does not fix the fault).

I assume (?) You have BBB1 means: The fault is NOT on the Outhole-Relay - the fault must be other place. So look at the JPG, post-4, "encircled red" the Switch on "300 and 3 adv. Relay", wire-color-36-Yellow-Brown, wire-color-21-Blue-Red. Do the same on this switch as You did on "Switch on Outhole-Relay" - inspect the switch and sneak-in a stripe of paper for insulation --- then play - what do You have ?
AAA2 means same situation as AAA1.
BBB2 means same situation as BBB1.
CCC2 means same situation as CCC1.
DDD2 means other --- please write about.

Have the Coin-Door open when playing - so You can hear the Score-Motor turning --- get acquainted to the sound "pin is nice and behaves" - then the question: How does it sound "when faulty". Greetings Rolf

#7 6 years ago

Ok Rolf.......here is what I have:

Paper strip in between contacts on the outhole relay between blk/G and blu/R cures the bonus problem
ALWAYS steps up to one thousand out of 10 games I played scores perfectly.
Pulled out strip of paper and its acts up again.

With the paper strip in between contacts however, the solenoid that resets the drop targets is inactive, solenoid works fine when paper strip is removed so must be part of that circuit

So what is this contact doing? Holding too Long?

#8 6 years ago

Oh and when the bonus steps up 2000-4000 yes the score motor is taking xtra turns

#9 6 years ago

Hi mrbanjo
GREAT - You mention "when the fault is happening - then the Score-Motor does Extra-Turns".
So we can put away the JPG in post-4 as the "stuff in the JPG" works correct - the fault is "WHAT makes the Score-Motor do some faulty Extra-Turns --- WHY does the Outhole-Relay faulty pulls-in several times or: Why does the Outhole-Relay not quit pulling after that one, needed turn ?".

In another topic I showed in its post-11, https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/captain-fantastic-need-help-with-startup#post-3548454 a JPG - I show it here again.
Please look at the JPG in https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/captain-fantastic-need-help-with-startup#post-3548454 --- ONLY have a look and see in the upper left corner an ordinary Edison-type-Bedroom-lamp - I will come to "Edison-type-lamp" in my writing in here.

The Capt. Fantastic has a feature I do not really like - it makes the pin more complicated. The feature is "Every new ball given starts with ONE Bonus given --- The Bonus-Ladder to be on Position ONE (Bonus lighted)".

The Numbers "1,2,3,4,5,6" are for "starting a new game - resetting". When playing and loosen a ball the "11 to 20, A to D" stuff happens. You loose a ball - You do have some bonus on the Bonus-Counter --- there is connection (downwards in the JPG) "12 to 13", so "11,12,13,14,15,16" the Bonus-Score-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling through "4 and 5" - and makes the Bonus-Ladder counted down.
The Bonus-Unit counted down finally reaches Position-Zero - this "opens '5' " and let the Bonus-Score-Relay quit pulling which makes "Switch 6,18" close. Also the Bonus-Unit reaching Position-Zero makes the "12, 17 switch" move - so "through the green wiring" the Outhole-Relay (20,B) starts pulling. The Outhole-Relay closes its Self-Hold-Switch "C" and stays pulling until the "D" opens this Self-Hold-Circuitry of Outhole-Relay.

So on Your problem the question is: SMSF or INITF
SMSF - Does "rosa, pink 'D' the Score-Motor-Switch 8C" sometimes not open --- keeping the Outhole-Relay being PULLING nonstop (and the Outhole-Relay pulling asks for another Score-Motor-Turn) ?
INITF - Stays "Switch 12,17" faulty in "position-green" and at the same time the "switch 6,18" is faulty closed --- means: Does the Outhole-Relay nicely let go - BUT gets FAULTY feeded (through green A, B) again and again and again ? (Initial-Feeding electricity)

You may investigate in these "Score-Motor-Switch-8C - truely opening ???", "Make-and-Brake-Zero-Position-Switch on Bonus-Unit", "Switch on Bonus-Score-Relay".

Another way is / would be: "Edison-type-lamp". Bally has 50VAC in the pins - I believe / I guess (want to try ?) an ordinary cheap bedroom-light of 110VAC can be used as a "Test-Light".
Connect "one Side/Wire of Test-Light" with "one Side/Solder-Lug of Coil on Outhole-Relay".
Connect "other Side/Wire of Test-Light" with "other Side/Solder-Lug of Coil on Outhole-Relay".
With this setup the Bedroom-Light-Test-Light lights-up and stays lit when the Coil of the Relay is feeded with current.

Have the Bedroom-Test-Light so You can watch it - is there a little "flicker means fault-INITF" - or does the Bedroom-Test-Light ABSOLUTELY stay lit (no flicker) means fault-SMSF ? Greetings Rolf

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#10 6 years ago

Ok Rolf, I found the issue, this is crazy too!
The lower right lane leaf switch for the 300/3000 bonus advance bonus was almost closed and here's what was happening:

Whenever a game was started and when the ball drained and kicked out, the drop target reset solenoid would activate ( which is rather large) the playfield vibration would sometimes make this switch contact therefore add 3000 points to the games normal 1000 point start bonus.
When I put the strip of paper as you suggested in the contacts (above schematic) on the out hole relay, that killed the drop target solenoid at ball drain/kick out and the bonus always started at 1000....every time. That got me searching
Adjusted that switch and it works 100% as it should.
Thanks for leading me in the right direction!
I truly appreciate it!!!!

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