(Topic ID: 282952)

Capt. Fantastic Wont Complete Startup

By CaptFantastic

3 years ago


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    #1 3 years ago

    Ive just cleaned my Capt Fantastic and upon reassembly it will not complete the startup sequence to the point where the ball is ejected to the trough through the outhole. Upon pressing thr start button The ball count, player up, and coin steppers all reset, drop targets reset the score reels reset, credit coubt drops by one, total play goes up by 1 however the outhole solenoid wont kick the ball out and the playfield/flippers wont be live. I've tried and tried to diagnose! Any help is appreciated.

    #2 3 years ago

    Check the bonus unit stepper mounted on the underside of the playfield. It needs to step down to the zero position in order for the ball to be kicked out to the shooter runway.

    - TimMe

    #3 3 years ago

    Thanks @TimMe, I checked that the bonus stepper was in the zero position, it is. I also manually advanced that stepper all the way up, then powered on the game and it immediately stepped all the way down to reset itself. Still trying!

    #5 3 years ago

    If the flippers don't energize at the end of reset, either the game over relay is tripping as soon as reset is completed, or the switch on the game over relay that supplies power to the playfield is not making good contact. Either of these issues will keep the ball from being delivered to the shooter lane.

    If the game over relay is tripping immediately, check for a mis-adjusted switch on the lock relay. There is a switch on the lock relay that should be open when the lock relay is energized. If that switch is always making contact, the game will immediately go into game over mode.

    - TimMe

    #6 3 years ago

    Oh, and there is also a switch on the reset relay that needs to close when the reset relay is not energized. This switch also supplies power to the playfield. If this switch isn't making good contact, it would cause the symptoms you are seeing.

    - TimMe

    #7 3 years ago

    Thanks very much, I will investigate that switch on the game over relay. What's odd is that the game over relay is not automatically delatching when the game is powered off and on again? Any thoughts on that? If I manually delatch it and press start button it will latch but it won't delatch with power toggle and I assume if I ever get power to the playfield it wont delatch after a true gameover via play

    #8 3 years ago

    Your game has a lock relay. This relay is essentially wired directly to the coil power output of the transformer. Whenever the power to the transformer is on, this relay will be pulled in and will stay energized all the time. The only exception to this is when the delay relay is activated, but that should never happen under normal home usage since the delay relay is an anti-cheat device.

    On the lock relay, there is a switch that is normally closed when the relay is off, and this switch opens when the relay is energized. This switch is wired directly to the trip coil of the game over relay. When you first turn on the game, the lock relay will immediately pull in. However, before the lock relay fully energizes, the closed switch on the lock relay should also cause the game over trip coil to fire before the switch points open. The timing of this is somewhat critical - the NC switch on the lock relay needs to reliably open when the lock relay is fully energized, but it needs to stay closed long enough on game power-up to allow the game over trip coil to fire.

    When a machine won't go into game over mode on power up, it's almost always because either the NC switch on the lock relay is opening too early, or the game over relay is mechanically sticking in a way that is preventing the very short pulse on the game over trip coil from actually tripping the relay. So you'll want to clean and adjust the NC switch on the lock relay, and also confirm that the mechanical latch/trip action of the game over relay is working smoothly.

    - TimMe

    #9 3 years ago

    Well put by TimMe. Bally lock relays usually have 4 sets of contacts and the coils are usually toasty looking because they are on all of the time when the game is powered on. Plus, the playfield and backbox lights go through 2 of 4 sets of contacts. Carefully clean and check switch action and gap adjustment.

    #10 3 years ago

    Hi CaptFantastic +
    what about the switches I have encircled orange in my JPG ? You start a game - as the fault shows up - when You (wear rubber gloves - electricity can kill people !) now manually activate the "Ball-Index-Relay" - does it stays pulling ? Greetings Rolf

    0Captn-Fantastic-Work-31 (resized).jpg0Captn-Fantastic-Work-31 (resized).jpg
    #11 3 years ago

    Thanks TimMe I will check that the lock relay is properly gapped! My lock relay only have one switch and Ive gapped to to where it just barely is open upon power on, hm, the game over relay does not unlatch, still investigating your other points!

    #12 3 years ago

    Hi Rolf, absolutely nothing happens when I manually activate the ball index relay!

    #13 3 years ago

    Ok so all your advice above has allowed me to make some serious progress! I made sure the far left top switch on the game over relay was making proper contact and voila, the playfield was alive, flippers worked etc not only that but the game is now automatically going into game over with the power toggle! Now for the bad news, as soon as I press start the game starts scoring over and over endlessly and the chimes ring over and over

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi CaptFantastic +
    what about the switches I have encircled orange in my JPG ?

    Yep, those are the two switches I mentioned in posts 5 and 6 that need to be checked. Rolf, thanks very much for providing an image of that part of the schematic diagram, as it helps to make it clear where the problem could be.

    Since the game over trip coil isn't firing, the outhole relay isn't firing, and the ball index relay isn't energizing, I strongly suspect one or both of these switches is not making good contact.

    - TimMe

    #15 3 years ago

    You have a scoring switch stuck. What point is incrementing? Look at all the switches for that point value.

    #16 3 years ago

    Ok will do, so when I press start, it will score/chime, but it will also advance to the next ball, and repeat the sequence until game over

    #17 3 years ago

    Push it in the river. It's a bastard anyway!

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptFantastic:

    Ok will do, so when I press start, it will score/chime, but it will also advance to the next ball, and repeat the sequence until game over

    Well, you may have more issues than a scoring switch. Patience and slips of paper to block switches and relay contacts for troubleshooting are what you need.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from CaptFantastic:

    Ok will do, so when I press start, it will score/chime, but it will also advance to the next ball, and repeat the sequence until game over

    Yes, this is what happens when a playfield score switch gets stuck. It's because the constant scoring is causing the ball index relay to energize right away, so if the ball is sitting in the outhole, the game will often run through all the ball-in-play steps and go to game over.

    If you take the ball out of the outhole, that should stop this from happening while you track down your stuck playfield switch.

    - TimMe

    #20 3 years ago

    Thank you all! Shoutout to you TimMe!!!! 4th drop target had a closed switch that needed to be gapped. SOLVED. thanks again!

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