Detroit, MI
Quoted from jake35:I got it at tpf and he showed me the list where I was #41.
Are peeps selling their place in-line yet, or is it too soon?
(Topic ID: 212355)
Linked Games
Kingpin
Capcom, 1996-
Kingpin (Remake)
Circus Maximus, 2018
Topic Gallery
Quoted from jwilson:That's good, you usually are. What happens is you get some half-truth or small nugget of info, then blow that up into a frothy rant how something is the worst thing ever. You've done this in threads for Hobbit, for DI and now you're doing it in a Kingpin thread.
Examples?
Quoted from jwilson:How about instead of going on frothy rants, you wait for them to deliver an engineering sample instead of the prototype, which is never how the final game is.
That'd be great, except that once it's to engineering sample IT'S TOO LATE and we're stuck with it. Speaking up when it's early enough to change is a much better course of action. It's called feedback, and it does result in better outcomes.
So it was it already addressed on if Rick at PPS has any rights to anything KingPin related? In the stream they just said they bought the Capcom archives.
Quoted from PinMonk:Examples?
That'd be great, except that once it's to engineering sample IT'S TOO LATE and we're stuck with it. Speaking up when it's early enough to change is a much better course of action. It's called feedback, and it does result in better outcomes.
God lord dude... its a simple speaker plastic... thats it. All the lcd screens are oversized and just masked appropriately.
They've said this was done for speed and still gives them one format that works either way... unlike a masked plastic.
Quoted from Concretehardt:So it was it already addressed on if Rick at PPS has any rights to anything KingPin related? In the stream they just said they bought the Capcom archives.
So is this mean they will be doing bbb also?
Quoted from Concretehardt:So it was it already addressed on if Rick at PPS has any rights to anything KingPin related? In the stream they just said they bought the Capcom archives.
No thats not what was said. James' comment was about the physical assets he bought (as rick did) when they bought out ipb. Im unsure if he had buying opportunities earlier... like when pecack and others did the big buyouts when the comapnies shutdown
These guys sound legit! “We don’t believe in building games with other people’s money” not exactly word for word but that was the message... So no Pre order/Pre pay.. when he games are ready that’s when you pay.
Quoted from flynnibus:God lord dude... its a simple speaker plastic... thats it. All the lcd screens are oversized and just masked appropriately.
ALL of them? I wasn't aware that AfMr LE had an LCD that was "masked appropriately."
Quoted from flynnibus:They've said this was done for speed and still gives them one format that works either way... unlike a masked plastic.
That's the problem. If they're going with the small square LCD for production (and it sounds like they are), it DOES NOT WORK for the original DMD animations. The DMD becomes a tiny, narrow band in the middle of the screen. So, I'm hoping they go the CGC oversized DMD aspect ratio or the ColorDMD route. What they have now is terrible for a display. If the reason is rushing for the show, I'm completely cool with that - hats off for getting it done in a short time. But if that's the plan for the final with the "new version" of the software using the square aspect ratio and the "original version" being shown in the center of the square screen, that's not cool.
EDIT: On the stream, they just said the screen they're showing is the one they're thinking of using. BUT, they said that can change, so FEEDBACK is important to get a better outcome.
Does this look like a solution you want for the DMD display?
I played one in LA and loved the ramps, flow, and dots. Didn't play it long enough to critique the rules, but my initial impressions were very positive. Surprised at how polished it felt. Excited that it's being remade...
snaroff
Quoted from PinMonk:ALL of them? I wasn't aware that AfMr LE had an LCD that was "masked appropriately."
That's the problem. If they're going with the small square LCD for production (and it sounds like they are), it DOES NOT WORK for the original DMD animations. The DMD becomes a tiny, narrow band in the middle of the screen. So, I'm hoping they go the CGC oversized DMD aspect ratio or the ColorDMD route. What they have now is terrible for a display. If the reason is rushing for the show, I'm completely cool with that - hats off for getting it done in a short time. But if that's the plan for the final with the "new version" of the software using the square aspect ratio and the "original version" being shown in the center of the square screen, that's not cool.
You are not listening... its a rapid prototype.
They are discussing changing all parts based on cost as lomg as its plays true to the original. This includes assemblies like the trough, jets, etc.
You are harping on shit as if its a deadend decision... when they are saying just the opposite
Quoted from flynnibus:You are not listening... its a rapid prototype.
They are discussing changing all parts based on cost as lomg as its plays true to the original. This includes assemblies like the trough, jets, etc.
You are harping on shit as if its a deadend decision... when they are saying just the opposite
Not listening? On the stream at TPF they literally JUST said that was the screen they were looking at using. Literally.
THEN they backed off and said things can change because they're iterating rapidly.
Which confirms that FEEDBACK is important to get the best outcome for the screen, because what they're "looking at using" is TERRIBLE.
Adelaide
Quoted from tonyoz:I wonder if PPS will stop this, got the impression that they hadn't spoken to Rick as yet. Doesn't seem that the game at TPF has any Capcom logos
It sounds more like 'a work in progress' - not that they havent spoken to rick at all.
Quoted from tonyoz:I wonder if PPS will stop this, got the impression that they hadn't spoken to Rick as yet. Doesn't seem that the game at TPF has any Capcom logos
For what it's worth, they said in the stream they don't anticipate any problems with licensing.
Quoted from tonyoz:I wonder if PPS will stop this, got the impression that they hadn't spoken to Rick as yet. Doesn't seem that the game at TPF has any Capcom logos
James and Rick are great friends no issues there
Quoted from musketd:James and Rick are great friends no issues there
Great to hear, really want this game to happen.
I hope they release a run of LE's based on the original with say a mirrored backglass and a few other extras. Not a fan of the updated art for the LE, not Kingpin to me
Quoted from PinMonk:That'd be great, except that once it's to engineering sample IT'S TOO LATE and we're stuck with it.
FYI: About 200 engineering samples of Cirqus Voltaire were made before changes were applied and regular production began.
Quoted from Mr68:FYI: About 200 engineering samples of Cirqus Voltaire were made before changes were applied and production began.
On Bally/Williams scale with almost 3000 for full production, okay. I think they said they'd make 30 of these Kingpin a month if they do it themselves and don't use a manufacturer. Somehow I don't think they'll be changing something as major as the screen and its aspect ratio by the time they get to engineering samples, especially if they're going "dual mode" (old and new "HD" game with new dots).
Quoted from tonyoz:Great to hear, really want this game to happen.
I hope they release a run of LE's based on the original with say a mirrored backglass and a few other extras. Not a fan of the updated art for the LE, not Kingpin to me
Also they were talking about the art being too dark and "fixing" it, but with LED backlighting, I think it could be illuminated better without too much change. The existing art is GREAT. Very dynamic.
Quoted from PinMonk:Also they were talking about the art being too dark and "fixing" it, but with LED backlighting, I think it could be illuminated better without too much change. The existing art is GREAT. Very dynamic.
We did not say we were fixing the art with LED Backlighting. Both the game designer Mark Ritchie and the game artist Stan Fukuoka said back in 1996, they both thought the backglass was too "dark". They say it still to this day. They did not mean the lighting method was too dark. They meant the artwork itself. If you ever get to see the original paining, which Stan Fukuoka still has, it's much more defined, brighter, and easier to see instead of the sample ones that were made for the ones that did get built.
The original artist is tweaking the artwork to make it the way that they would have done it at Capcom if it went to production. They would have corrected that for the production games. But it never got to that point. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum. Several original team members have offered their feedback and get kept in the loop.
The way they worked on games when it got to prototype/samples stage was they would usually order 25 "samples" from their suppliers of the parts. Cabinets, Playfields, all sorts of the custom game parts. They'd use those samples to verify they matched their engineering specs, and also used a small number of those to build some "sample" games. That's why there are 8-9 Kinpins. Those were built from those small batch of sample parts and modifications would be made before production, especially if the parts were out of spec, etc.
Quoted from pkiefert:We did not say we were fixing the art with LED Backlighting.
I didn't mean to imply that you did - bad comma placement. You were talking about dark art, I was suggesting LED lighting might fix it. Re-reading, that's obviously bad sentence construction. I was just saying that the incandescent lighting in an original does a poor job of lighting the backglass, and perhaps using LED lighting for the backglass in the remake would be enough to bring out the detail that's in the shadows of the original.
It would be AWESOME if Stan (or someone adjacent) would take a picture of the original painting so we can see what you're talking about.
Quoted from pkiefert:We did not say we were fixing the art with LED Backlighting. Both the game designer Mark Ritchie and the game artist Stan Fukuoka said back in 1996, they both thought the backglass was too "dark". They say it still to this day. They did not mean the lighting method was too dark. They meant the artwork itself. If you ever get to see the original paining, which Stan Fukuoka still has, it's much more defined, brighter, and easier to see instead of the sample ones that were made for the ones that did get built.
The original artist is tweaking the artwork to make it the way that they would have done it at Capcom if it went to production. They would have corrected that for the production games. But it never got to that point. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum. Several original team members have offered their feedback and get kept in the loop.
The way they worked on games when it got to prototype/samples stage was they would usually order 25 "samples" from their suppliers of the parts. Cabinets, Playfields, all sorts of the custom game parts. They'd use those samples to verify they matched their engineering specs, and also used a small number of those to build some "sample" games. That's why there are 8-9 Kinpins. Those were built from those small batch of sample parts and modifications would be made before production, especially if the parts were out of spec, etc.
So cool. One thing that exictes me about this project is that it's not just another remake. You guys are finally finishing one of my favorite pinball games of all time... some 20+ years after the project was shelved!
Quoted from PinMonk:ALL of them? I wasn't aware that AfMr LE had an LCD that was "masked appropriately."
AFMrLE's screen is masked some. The bally logo is part of the screen and is customizable. There is an image you can change.
example
Quoted from pickleric:AFMrLE's screen is masked some. The bally logo is part of the screen and is customizable. There is an image you can change.
example
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attack-from-mars-remake-afmr-owners-club/page/13#post-3959522
Yes, but that's a sliver of like 2" at the bottom of the otherwise appropriately-sized and aspect-ratio LCD.
Quoted from DMC:I trust your expertise in this field. I’m just going off my experience with WPC flippers. I hope I get to play one of these one day. Nick are you on AA?
No mate, not on there.
Quoted from musketd:Being one of the original owners of a kingpin how do you like the game and how does it hold up long term?
I built one, I do not have one of the 8, that's how I got to know it so well.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-big-city-kid
The original rules need some polish, but as CM is proposing to have two sets - original and updated - available, this is ideal.
Paris
Quoted from rattmuscle:I like the original art much better. I'm going to keep a eye on this for signing up for one. Would look good next to my PM.
Same for me. The pin looks great like it was and this remake looks great ! Look forward for news about this project
Quoted from pkiefert:Last day of TPF. Come out and play Kingpin before we lug it back to Atlanta. The next show we will be at will be the Southern Fried Gameroom Expo in June.
Still tons of interest.
Dang was hoping to c it in Allentown pa.....
Not trying to Monday Morning quarterback or anything, but I had an idea. Before building the "enhanced" version of the game with new rules, videos, etc, why not build the original game first (with suggested enhancements from Mark, Stan and other insiders) and get it into production? Then offer the "enhanced" game later as an add-on. Kinda like BOP 2.0. Just saying that because I was sitting here wondering if the "enhanced" version might open a can of worms that adds months or years to the development (and drives up overall cost). Also seems like it wouldn't hurt to get a revenue stream going sooner rather than later.
Vancouver, BC
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:Not trying to Monday Morning quarterback or anything, but I had an idea. Before building the "enhanced" version of the game with new rules, videos, etc, why not build the original game first (with suggested enhancements from Mark, Stan and other insiders) and get it into production?
This has already been discussed and we haven't decided one way or another yet on it. If we do it, it won't be a kit, but just a software upgrade. But it's way too early to determine one way or another yet. We've got at least probably 9 months before production would begin and affect the timeline, and a lot of progress can be made on the new software side during that time.
The connections and ideas we've gotten from other vendors here at TPF have been awesome. I think everyone... well, mostly everyone, will be amazed when they see what we have in store for this project.
Paul
Love the theme and art on this title and can't wait to have the opportunity to put one in my game room. Congrats to everyone involved and hope you guys have smooth sailing from here to production.
Quoted from bigd1979:Dang was hoping to c it in Allentown pa.....
I was told every show they do puts them about a week behind in production. They seem focused on getting them made.
Game played very well, felt like a Capcom. Decals were put on Thursday morning I was told.
I bought one of the translites. Not sure if I'll be in on the game or not but it was cool & helped support the project. I'll reserve judgment until the production models start rolling out and I can play again.
I like they way they operate with no pre-order money. Kind of reminds me when spooky said he quit his day job to do pinball full time. Betting on themselves, I like that..
Here's some pictures from the show.
Quoted from Butch2099:I was told every show they do puts them about a week behind in production. They seem focused on getting them made.
Game played very well, felt like a Capcom. Decals were put on Thursday morning I was told.
I bought one of the translites. Not sure if I'll be in on the game or not but it was cool & helped support the project. I'll reserve judgment until the production models start rolling out and I can play again.
I like they way they operate with no pre-order money. Kind of reminds me when spooky said he quit his day job to do pinball full time. Betting on themselves, I like that..
Here's some pictures from the show.
May put them back but it will help them sell more since most people havent played the game.... i won't purchase till i play it. I did buy a translight to help support the company.
Quoted from bigd1979:May put them back but it will help them sell more since most people havent played the game.... i won't purchase till i play it. I did buy a translight to help support the company.
"Most people haven't played the game" applies to just about every game before production, and Stern seems to still sell their stuff.
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:Not trying to Monday Morning quarterback or anything, but I had an idea. Before building the "enhanced" version of the game with new rules, videos, etc, why not build the original game first (with suggested enhancements from Mark, Stan and other insiders) and get it into production? Then offer the "enhanced" game later as an add-on. Kinda like BOP 2.0. Just saying that because I was sitting here wondering if the "enhanced" version might open a can of worms that adds months or years to the development (and drives up overall cost). Also seems like it wouldn't hurt to get a revenue stream going sooner rather than later.
Not trying to Monday Morning quarterback but I'm going to do it anyway. Lol.
Quoted from vegemite_nick:"Most people haven't played the game" applies to just about every game before production, and Stern seems to still sell their stuff.
+1
With a title as rare as KingPin, they won't have any trouble selling tons of these, with or without support.
Missing a show here and there will not affect sales whatsoever.
Quoted from vegemite_nick:"Most people haven't played the game" applies to just about every game before production, and Stern seems to still sell their stuff.
Quoted from Magic_Mike:+1
With a title as rare as KingPin, they won't have any trouble selling tons of these, with or without support.
Missing a show here and there will not affect sales whatsoever.
With so many new pins coming out with new tech, rgb lighting and deeper code for around the sane pricepoint its getting harder for me to purchase old remakes ... especially if i haven't played them . If i had unlimited room it wldnt matter as much but i dont and i know plenty of people that feel the same . So getting it to different shows can definitely help in some cases.
Quoted from bigd1979:With so many new pins coming out with new tech, rgb lighting and deeper code for around the sane pricepoint its getting harder for me to purchase old remakes ... especially if i haven't played them . If i had unlimited room it wldnt matter as much but i dont and i know plenty of people that feel the same . So getting it to different shows can definitely help in some cases.
Fair point. Hopefully you and all those others get a chance to play one locally. For me (and I won't presume to suggest plenty of others) a game as iconic as this, with such a rich history, has more going for it than just code and lighting (although wait until you see the lighting on this beauty!)
Quoted from TomT:I played an original that was next to a Big Bang Bar and I loved it thought it was a great game especially compared to the Big Bang that just seemed ok to me.
Played both games side by side when they originally came out and felt the same way. Didn't know they were on test or soon to be rare, just two new games to try out.
Quoted from bigd1979:With so many new pins coming out with new tech, rgb lighting and deeper code for around the sane pricepoint its getting harder for me to purchase old remakes ... especially if i haven't played them . If i had unlimited room it wldnt matter as much but i dont and i know plenty of people that feel the same . So getting it to different shows can definitely help in some cases.
And yet some people are drooling over a game like TNA with a simple layout, simple ruleset, basic audio, basic display effects and $6k price point.
One thing Kingpin has that is missing in most games today is humor, which is a big plus to me. In my opinion Kingpin hits a good sweet spot in theme integration (ie, sound, art, display effects), fun to shoot playfield design and rule complexity. Similar to AFM. Price will be the deciding factor.
A big thanks to everyone who came out and checked out Kingpin at TPF. The response was overwhelming positive to both the game and our translite offer.
We had relatively few hiccups for a project with such a short timeline. Now it's time to clean up a few things and keep marching forward towards production.
We will be at SFGE with the game, so that is the next chance to check it out and see how we've progressed since TPF.
Thanks again! And here is a photo that Martin took from Pinball News of us with game designer Mark Ritchie checking on our progress. As we mentioned in our seminar and here, original team members Mark Ritchie and Stan Fukuoka are involved with the project as advisors.
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