(Topic ID: 292159)

Capcom Breakshot Upper Flipper Curiosity

By Var1AbL3

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

I got a Breakshot recently and it is a really fun game and played great for a while, but a couple of days ago the upper right flipper stopped working correctly. When I push the right flipper button the upper flipper will not fire at all about half the time and the other half the time it fires pretty far out of sync. I checked the diagnostics and saw the EOS for the upper flipper is dead.
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I opened the cabinet to look and am kind of confused by what I am seeing. The main flippers have the expected EOS switch with a diode that are touched by the underside of the flipper mech when it is fully extended. But, the one on the upper flipper make zero sense, it is very short, cannot touch the flipper at EOS and even looks like it is backwards (if the one side was long enough) . Here are a couple of pictures, but it is hard to see it. I am mostly curious how this flipper was ever working with that EOS in there. Or, because it am relatively new to pin repair am I missing something?

I ordered a new Capcom flipper Leaf Switch with a diode from Marco's that should be here Saturday. That will fix this, right?

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#2 3 years ago
Quoted from Var1AbL3:

looks like it is backwards

It is.

And has nothing to do with the flipper not firing.

LTG : )

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

It is.
And has nothing to do with the flipper not firing.
LTG : )

What do the other flipper mechs look like, you got a pic? I had a Breakshot for a couple of years but I never had to repair a thing on it so I don't think I ever even looked at them closely. Are you sure it's backwards? Looks to be a normally open switch and the long inner activated blade is broken off. There's pics of Capcoms out there where they were replaced with Williams mechs and the switch is N.O..

...I still have the NOS Breakshot playfield I bought way back then hanging at the end of the hall, only pinball 'decoration' I have in the house. I didn't even need it because my pf was absolutely beautiful but it was only 90 bucks on ebay.

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#4 3 years ago

Take a look at the switch stack on the flipper button. Start there and work your way towards the flipper.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

What do the other flipper mechs look like, you got a pic? I had a Breakshot for a couple of years but I never had to repair a thing on it so I don't think I ever even looked at them closely. Are you sure it's backwards? Looks to be a normally open switch and the long inner activated blade is broken off.

I have it closed up and this particular machine is pain to open the playfield, I have to fish out the balls with a magnet then unlatch it (which is not a great latch) so I will grab some pics when I open it back up to put in the new leaf switch. The other two mechs looks like one would expect and I am leaning toward your explanation that the longer leaf just broke off. But, do note that the one that would have been the longer one is on the outside even though this is a "normal open" switch, if the flipper mech were to hit the one that is now broken it would have opened the switch more.

Quoted from coniferpinball:

Take a look at the switch stack on the flipper button. Start there and work your way towards the flipper.

I did exactly this, I started with the double leaf switch at the flipper button, it was aligned fine, all connectors seem solid, and both contacts look clean. I actually have a few extras of these that came with the machines extra parts, but it looks pretty new. I am pretty sure the leaf switch pictured above has had the longer leaf broken off and that is the issue.

I will update the thread whenever the new switch comes in and let you know if that solved the problem. I will also be putting new bumper skirts on the pop bumpers since they are cracked and cracking more. This game has some powerful pop bumpers .

#6 3 years ago

I'll try to remember to look at mine when I get home tonight for you.

Chris

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Var1AbL3:

I have to fish out the balls with a magnet

Or stuff a rag in the end.

LTG : )

#8 3 years ago

On games with this style of balltrough (capcom, WMS before IJ), you can reach in the coin door and manually operate the ball eject mechanism to easily unload the balls into the shooter lane, no maget needed.

Capcom flippers are solid state so the EOS isn't necessary for operation. Check the coil solder joints and the coil wire itself to be sure it hasn't broken free of the joint.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

On games with this style of balltrough (capcom, WMS before IJ), you can reach in the coin door and manually operate the ball eject mechanism to easily unload the balls into the shooter lane, no maget needed.
Capcom flippers are solid state so the EOS isn't necessary for operation. Check the coil solder joints and the coil wire itself to be sure it hasn't broken free of the joint.

If I remember right from my days of Capcom ownership theres a function in the settings that will eject the balls for you as well.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

If I remember right from my days of Capcom ownership theres a function in the settings that will eject the balls for you as well.

Worst case scenario - Tests - Coils - ball trough eject 4 times.

LTG : )

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Capcom flippers are solid state so the EOS isn't necessary for operation. Check the coil solder joints and the coil wire itself to be sure it hasn't broken free of the joint.

This is an interesting comment and would explain how the upper flipper was working before with this short EOS. But, I have looked at all the relevant solder joints and don't see any cracks or cold joints. I will give it another look when I put in the new EOS. If these flippers don't need EOS then why would those be installed?

Looks like my new leaf switches won't be here till Monday so I will likely see if I can make it work without this EOS if that is really possible.

Quoted from Haymaker:

If I remember right from my days of Capcom ownership theres a function in the settings that will eject the balls for you as well.

Quoted from LTG:

Worst case scenario - Tests - Coils - ball trough eject 4 times

Yes, I have gotten them out via Test Coils and by hitting the ball eject from the underside. I have one of those magnetic grabbers and it works great to get the balls out pretty quickly. I am just neck deep in a Meteor restore and have been working on that today. I will pull open Breakshot and see if I can get it working this weekend.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Var1AbL3:

This is an interesting comment and would explain how the upper flipper was working before with this short EOS. But, I have looked at all the relevant solder joints and don't see any cracks or cold joints. I will give it another look when I put in the new EOS. If these flippers don't need EOS then why would those be installed?
Looks like my new leaf switches won't be here till Monday so I will likely see if I can make it work without this EOS if that is really possible.

Yes, I have gotten them out via Test Coils and by hitting the ball eject from the underside. I have one of those magnetic grabbers and it works great to get the balls out pretty quickly. I am just neck deep in a Meteor restore and have been working on that today. I will pull open Breakshot and see if I can get it working this weekend.

Capcoms are really weird to work on if you're used to the bigger brands, but once you kind of dig in and see what they have going on, a lot of it is really smartly designed. Its too bad they weren't more successful in the pinball market because it would have been nice to see some of their ideas rub off on other manufacturers, or at the very least, could have kept making cool games

#13 3 years ago

<<But, do note that the one that would have been the longer one is on the outside even though this is a "normal open" switch, if the flipper mech were to hit the one that is now broken it would have opened the switch more. >>

To me this is how it looks like what happened, normally open switch, inner long blade is broken off. The short blade has the contact facing in, not out.
I remember from my Breakshot that the flipper power could also be adjusted in the settings, from limp as a wet noodle to "let's start breaking stuff". But don't recall if the game could or did disable or change anything as per power or operation of a given flipper if it detects the EOS has a problem, the basic operational software in Capcoms had a lot of innovative new tricks.

<<If these flippers don't need EOS then why would those be installed?>

These flippers only have a single winding, no usual second 'hold' winding, so the software uses the switch to directly reduce power to hold level when flipper is up.

Not sure why your switch even has a diode on it, Capcom switch diodes are supposed to all be on a separate circuit board. Maybe this is a replacement switch that had the diode already on it and it is just redundant, or the flippers were an exception (?)

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#14 3 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

These flippers only have a single winding, no usual second 'hold' winding, so the software uses the switch to directly reduce power to hold level when flipper is up.

Not sure why your switch even has a diode on it, Capcom switch diodes are supposed to all be on a separate circuit board. Maybe this is a replacement switch that had the diode already on it and it is just redundant, or the flippers were an exception (?)

frenchmarky or anyone else here, one last question before I install the new leaf switch for the EOS on the upper flipper. I ordered both kinds of Capcom leaf switches that were available from Marcos. In the below picture you can see both. One is slightly shorter than the other and did not come with a diode. the longer one (which is the right size for the EOS) did come with a diode, but I am wondering if that is even necessary. Should I just leave the diode off and see if it works? Or am I better off erring on the side of caution and putting the Diode in there?

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Fast Marco's shipping for the win and I will get this installed today and see how it works.

#15 3 years ago

If the other two flippers don't have a diode you don't need the diode. Capcoms are supposed to have all the switch diodes mounted elsewhere on a board. Use the switch that fits there better or is same length as on the other flippers, the units all looked the same to me in pictures of the underside of the playfield on IPDB. Pic out there of Capcom flippers converted to use a Williams unit also do NOT have diodes on the EOS switches (in that case Williams coils are used but only the main winding is wired, the hold winding is left unused.)

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