New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 141932)

Can you return a NIB??


By joekiss

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 89 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by xTheBlackKnightx
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    PA190101.jpg
    KISS_Mod.jpg
    Capture.jpg
    image_2.jpeg
    image_1.jpeg
    image.jpeg

    There are 89 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 5 years ago

    You should not need to "break in" a game for it to play well nor would a sdtm style kick out fix itself. This is something that needs to be solved by a person. This type of tweak is not generally difficult.

    #52 5 years ago

    I suggest to anyone knew to the hobby or that is not technical to buy from a dealer, not a distributor. Realistically tweaking a Vertical up kicker to not go straight down the middle should be easy for someone with a technical mind. I talked to my friend (who's game I was playing) and his was unplayable before he leveled it.
    STTNG is a fantastic game when properly working / setup. I would never suggest this to a non tech type person though. Mine takes double the "maintenance" to keep right than the next most demanding machine I have. I did not even watch the show before I bought one, it was purchased based on the pinball brilliance. I have watched a few shows since, they bored me horribly other than a couple borg based ones were exciting. I hope your issues are resolved as Kiss is also a fun game.
    Should you have to mess with a NIB to work right, probably not. Is it fun to mess with and "dial it in", heck yeah. Sometimes fixing is as much fun as playing to me!

    #53 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    The Gene head is just an awful awful feature that just completely ruins the game.

    Quoted from lordloss:

    Also, maybe the game needs to be broken in.

    All the breaking in in the world won't get rid of that hideous monstrosity.

    #54 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rob_G:

    I have had the vuk under the head get jammed on my Pro. It happens if you shoot 2 balls in there basically at the same time. There needs to be a change to the design so that cannot happen or this will be a huge detriment to having this game on route. The game has been out long enough though that you would think there would be a tech bulletin. Has anyone else contacted Stern about the ball jams and if so, what have they said?
    Rob

    I have a KISS Pro on route that was purchased at the beginning of the second run in August. It has had this same problem, as described above. The telescoping magnet was the only way to "fix" it.

    After this happened a few times, and was hurting my earnings due to the machine being turned off, I contacted Stern support. They are aware of the issue, and sent me a new VUK snubber bracket, which has a slightly different angle than the original. It seems to have resolved the issue. However, it did take me a couple hours to take a bunch of stuff apart (including the head and ramp and plastics) and put it back together. Not that easy/quick to do on location in a dimly lighted and crowded bar.

    -Mark

    #55 5 years ago

    Im pretty ok with doing pinball repairs. ive done a full playfield teardown on most of my mahines and fixed many problems. I learn as I go. Only adjustment I see on this is the six bolts under the ramps and there is not much wiggling to be done.
    Do I really have to explain myself why I expect a new machine to work 100%?? This was a $6400 machine. Should it not work 100% out of the box? What if you bought a new car and were told by the dealer you needed to make some adjustments??

    #56 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Do I really have to explain myself why I expect a new machine to work 100%?? This was a $6400 machine. Should it not work 100% out of the box? What if you bought a new car and were told by the dealer you needed to make some adjustments??

    There are minor things that can happen in shipping, but you may want to read through the thread below to see how a couple of well regarded pinsiders who have been around for a while think an NIB game with what I would consider more serious defects (such as peeling decals) is not unusual and not a big deal.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-quality-going-down-the-drain/page/6#post-2751017

    #57 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Should it not work 100% out of the box?

    After it gets banged about in shipping. No. You may have to tweak a thing or two, or push loose connectors back on.

    Quoted from joekiss:

    What if you bought a new car and were told by the dealer you needed to make some adjustments??

    Car dealers do this. Once you pick it up and if you find an issue. Take it back to the dealer to fix it.

    Things the size of a pinball machine or car, can have crap happen in assembly or shipping. Fix it, tweak it. Enjoy it.

    LTG : )™

    #58 5 years ago

    I played a kiss pro at the expo that shot the ball right down the middle every time. Once it was saved by the ball save all the rest i lost the ball.

    #59 5 years ago

    Mine was manufactured on 10/1 and doesn't seem to have this issue. Has your distributer given you any suggestions yet?

    #60 5 years ago

    Yes. Adjust the screws. I have 4 times now.

    #61 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Yes. Adjust the screws. I have 4 times now.

    The screws on the head? My ball launches straight out without even contacting the head I think...?

    #62 5 years ago

    The screws behind the head. take the cape piece off and you will see the 6 screws holding the whole thing in place.

    #63 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Im pretty ok with doing pinball repairs. ive done a full playfield teardown on most of my mahines and fixed many problems. I learn as I go. Only adjustment I see on this is the six bolts under the ramps and there is not much wiggling to be done.
    Do I really have to explain myself why I expect a new machine to work 100%?? This was a $6400 machine. Should it not work 100% out of the box? What if you bought a new car and were told by the dealer you needed to make some adjustments??

    Adding on to LTG's comments; "simply" take the machine back to the dealer/distributor that sold the game to you for them to adjust/repair it.

    #64 5 years ago

    I don't find it to be a drain monster..

    Walking Dead? Yes.
    They did a dirty little trick with TWD, which was to make high posts for the slingshots and lower inlane posts- old bally SS style, ball hits and goes right out.

    I've been enjoying my Pro, never had the ball hang up once and maybe 2 or 3 times down the middle out of 150 games played. I think your game needs to be tweaked by someone else, a second look.

    Edit: My game was manufactured in mid September.

    -1
    #65 5 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    I don't suppose you can buy a new car, put 2000 miles on it and say, I want to return it for a full refund. However, they should fix the issue for you, as will stern. Just need to work with them.

    ever heard of lemon laws???

    #66 5 years ago
    Quoted from robotron:

    ever heard of lemon laws???

    Not for pinball machines, no.

    #67 5 years ago

    op, stick it out. my kiss le was garbage nib. had many issues and I was as pissed off as you are. I wanted to put an ax to the pin (also after having walking dead le broken for 4 months). I walked away from the pins for 2 weeks and came back and took my time and fixed all the issues. the kiss pin is really good and was worth all the hassle. i play it before my daily commute of 2 hrs every day. really helps me start my day!

    #68 5 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Not for pinball machines, no.

    just saying don't compare new pins to new cars.
    cars have great warranties and for the most part very reliable nowadays. you also get free towing free maintenance.

    #69 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    The screws behind the head. take the cape piece off and you will see the 6 screws holding the whole thing in place.

    You generally do not fix VuK aiming issues by loosening the screws holding it and repointing it. It's just not what you do to fix this. So that's a complete dead end.

    What types of things you do:
    1) Bend the roof of the VuK so the ball hits it as it leaves and ends up in a different spot. I have fixed all my VuK problems that were not caused by wear divots this way.
    2) The divot based ones you just buy a new one, but in the meantime you can use some sticky back felt or fuzzy side of sticky back velcro and put that on the roof of the VuK to change how the ball comes out. This will definitely change the SDTM issue, but instead it may not come out exactly and consistently so it's not always the right fix.

    VuK should generally fire to a pleasant location. They should always fire to the same spot and not sometimes kick down the drain. They should not fire into slingshots. It is really unacceptable for you to have a game that does not exit the VuK correctly. I'm satisfied that you will get assistance from stern to resolve this but in the meantime work with the tweaks above so you can enjoy your game.

    Quoted from joekiss:

    Do I really have to explain myself why I expect a new machine to work 100%?? This was a $6400 machine. Should it not work 100% out of the box? What if you bought a new car and were told by the dealer you needed to make some adjustments??

    Who cares what you paid? Are you suggesting a $6400 machine should work 100% and a $4900 machine shoudnt? Its just a stupid argument. Drop what you paid. If you are sad about what you paid you shouldn't have bought in the first place. WHAT YOU PAID IS IRRELEVANT. All products purchased (regardless of price) should work as advertised.

    #70 5 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Not really an exact comparison - most states do have lemon laws in regards to cars. If your new car consistently has the same problem(s), the dealer only has so many chances to fix it before they must accept it back for a full refund, or exchange it for a brand new car. Buyers remorse is a lot different than having a defective product that doesn't function as it should.

    Maybe not, but a demon head that shoots the ball down the middle is not a lemon....that's like having a spark plug go out, or your cruise quits working...... I buy a new car every few year and every single one needs something repaired under warranty. I guess it still makes sense to me.

    I agree with the op, the game should work 100%. But reality is they don't, they almost always need some sort of adjustment out of the box. Many dealers offer set up and inspection for this reason. Of course those full service guys aren't the ones selling super cheap.

    Of course I am of the mind set games are constantly in need of adjustment, repair, or cleaning so I just fix the issue and move on. I have had transistors fail within the first 3 games, had fuses blowing on Ironman within the first 10 games due to an LED shorting, it's unfortunate but happens

    #71 5 years ago
    Quoted from robotron:

    ever heard of lemon laws???

    So you are saying this KISS is a lemon?

    #72 5 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    You should not need to "break in" a game for it to play well nor would a sdtm style kick out fix itself. This is something that needs to be solved by a person. This type of tweak is not generally difficult.

    Exactly.....

    #73 5 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    Maybe not, but a demon head that shoots the ball down the middle is not a lemon....that's like having a spark plug go out, or your cruise quits working...... I buy a new car every few year and every single one needs something repaired under warranty. I guess it still makes sense to me.
    I agree with the op, the game should work 100%. But reality is they don't, they almost always need some sort of adjustment out of the box. Many dealers offer set up and inspection for this reason. Of course those full service guys aren't the ones selling super cheap.
    Of course I am of the mind set games are constantly in need of adjustment, repair, or cleaning so I just fix the issue and move on. I have had transistors fail within the first 3 games, had fuses blowing on Ironman within the first 10 games due to an LED shorting, it's unfortunate but happens

    It's tough to do these comparisons to a car - you said it yourself, you buy a new car every few years and every single one needs something repaired. The difference is - when your cruise control went out, did the dealership just send you a part and expect you to then work on it on your own? If the paint starts to peel off after a month, do they send you out a can of paint? It'd be different if you could bring your pin somewhere local for warranty work, or if someone was dispatched. Pins are unique in that way - if you have a large appliance in your home and it's not working right in the beginning, you get a tech sent out. If you buy a car, you get to take it to the dealership and they fix it. For a pin - you are pretty much on your own for repairs. It's definitely a unique situation with pins.

    #74 5 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    You generally do not fix VuK aiming issues by loosening the screws holding it and repointing it. It's just not what you do to fix this. So that's a complete dead end.

    You are wrong - perhaps you don't understand what is being discussed here. Myself and others have adjusted the chute bracket slightly and eliminated the SDTM issues from the kickout. The VUK itself is not being adjusted, but the chute that the ball travels through does have its angle slightly changed. Out of the box mine sent the ball SDTM 90% of the time. After adjusting it always go to the left flipper now, never once SDTM.

    Rob

    #75 5 years ago

    I'm working on a mod that should direct the ball correctly but more important it looks much better visually then the current head.

    KISS_Mod.jpg

    #76 5 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    It's tough to do these comparisons to a car - you said it yourself, you buy a new car every few years and every single one needs something repaired. The difference is - when your cruise control went out, did the dealership just send you a part and expect you to then work on it on your own? If the paint starts to peel off after a month, do they send you out a can of paint? It'd be different if you could bring your pin somewhere local for warranty work, or if someone was dispatched. Pins are unique in that way - if you have a large appliance in your home and it's not working right in the beginning, you get a tech sent out. If you buy a car, you get to take it to the dealership and they fix it. For a pin - you are pretty much on your own for repairs. It's definitely a unique situation with pins.

    Maybe so, and good point. I still struggle with this because if people bought from a local dealer/service center, I suppose service wouldn't be an issue, and they could bring the game in for Repair just as you mention. If I am not willing or able to do repairs, I would most definately buy from a local authorized distributor/service center who can take care of me.

    So as in your examples of a small appliance or a car, a local pinball dealer can either send out a tech or it can be brought in for service, or warranty repairs. Seems no different.

    However....you can buy an appliance on Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, there is no service. My water heater (from my local menards) circuit board went out after 60 days, they didn't send anyone out, they just sent me the part. I could have paid more, and purchased my water heater from the local plumber and had full service as well, just opted not to. But I also know he doesn't repair Menards water heaters....

    So to me, as buyer you have options, mail order for less $ and fix yourself, or local dealer for support. A personal choice.

    #77 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Do I really have to explain myself why I expect a new machine to work 100%?? This was a $6400 machine. Should it not work 100% out of the box? What if you bought a new car and were told by the dealer you needed to make some adjustments??

    Well, if you're not willing to make adjustments, then you probably shouldn't be buying pinball machines. Regardless of how you think the world ought to work, reality is that it's perfectly normal for a NiB pin to require some adjustment and alignment right out of the box. I think anyone with experience buying NiB will tell you that.

    #79 5 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    So you are saying this KISS is a lemon?

    no I totally understand pinball now. stern basically puts out a 2 month shitty warranty. take it or leave it attitude. we take it cause we love pins. doesn't mean its fair. btw I fixed my kiss le that had many issues that were quality control and not from shipping. I stated in a post it was worth me fixing as its a great pin and to me a lot of fun.
    walking dead le broke for 5 months and a friend and fellow pinsider had to fix it. cost me 400.00 shipping to get it to him, now its gonna cost me to get it back. btw my friend did not charge me anything to fix it, very nice of him to do this!!

    I am gonna avoid stern pins for a while though. just saying you have to have some self respect.

    I own tron le, mop le, wd le, kiss le, woz rr. just got a centaur instead of a new pin, very happy with the purchase.

    #80 5 years ago

    Are people complaining visually about the head? Wow,

    The head is pretty cool imho. Can't please everyone I guess.

    #81 5 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Well, if you're not willing to make adjustments, then you probably shouldn't be buying pinball machines.

    But it sounds like he's contacted his distributor and made all of the adjustments they suggested...?

    #82 5 years ago

    I would either:
    Check with the Credit Card company or
    List it for sale. Someone else probably wouldn't mind working on it.

    #83 5 years ago

    If you struggle to tweak a game to your liking, you should probably buy one used from a fastidious collector who has worked through the start-up problems.

    #84 5 years ago

    PA190101.JPG

    #85 5 years ago

    Had a friend over. First game. Ive seen this so much I don't even flinch. Im open to suggestions on how to fix this.

    #86 5 years ago

    You might also want to review https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-stern-kiss-le-premium-demon-lock-troubleshooting-thread in case anyone found a fix.

    (Yes, there really is a thread for this problem already.)

    #87 5 years ago

    Isn't this your 3rd thread about SDTM and outlanes?

    #88 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Had a friend over. First game. Ive seen this so much I don't even flinch. Im open to suggestions on how to fix this.

    Call 1800kickers

    #89 5 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    You generally do not fix VuK aiming issues by loosening the screws holding it and repointing it. It's just not what you do to fix this. So that's a complete dead end.

    This discussion reminds me of the RGP "VUK discussion" over the lower to upper playfield kicker on Haunted House, WAY BACK IN TIME.
    Oh, how the fun times. Predominant cause of troubles? Worn ball holes, assemblies, alignment, coil burnouts, electrical shorts, etc.
    At least Black Hole was a *little* better.
    There sometimes ALL sorts of adjustments that need to be made in terms of alignment, the vertical wireform positioning with the screws, the alignment of the VUK itself, the functioning of the assembly and any potential "slop" or "tightness", the ability to center the ball on the VUK, and so on.

    How is this relevant here?
    "Fiddling with screws" on the ball VUK receiver is not a technical solution.
    You have to take a close look at what actually is going on.

    For example, when I was overhauling my WH20 recently, the ball was not getting up the shooter lane ramp smoothly via the plunger.
    The spring used had more than enough power to do the right job as per factory specs.
    This was being caused by THREE reasons, the alignment of the ball in respect to the plunger, the lane guide with the ball release into the shooter lane, AND the wire form itself that had a very slight misalignment.
    I guess my game is defective too...right?
    Small things DO count, A LOT.
    This is what you have to do to "dial in" your game, and in some case you have to modify your OWN GAME to actually work better than the way it left the factory as every machine can have its own nuances. Sometimes I have had to make my own rail guides or even protectors (before they were made), in order to do the job that the design engineers forgot.
    Just ask Cliffy, if he knows what I am talking about here.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 369.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 35.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 12.00
    Electronics
    Yorktown Arcade Supply
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 6,599.99
    Pinball Machine
    Pinball Pro
    $ 5.00
    $ 79.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    pinballmod
    $ 225.00
    Cabinet - Other
    FlyLand Designs
    $ 15.00
    Playfield - Other
    YouBentMyWookie
    $ 35.00
    Various Novelties
    Pinball Photos LLC
    $ 69.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 89.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    From: $ 17.95
    Playfield - Protection
    COINTAKER.COM
    $ 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 19.95
    Playfield - Protection
    SilverBall Designs
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 15.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 6.50
    Electronics
    Yorktown Arcade Supply
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 19.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Chrome Candy
    $ 29.95
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    From: $ 5,899.95
    Pinball Machine
    Pinball Pro
    From: $ 34.00
    Playfield - Other
    Pin Monk
    There are 89 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside