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(Topic ID: 141932)

Can you return a NIB??


By joekiss

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 89 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by xTheBlackKnightx
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 89 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 5 years ago

    Im through with the KISS premium. The Gene head is just an awful awful feature that just completely ruins the game. I bought mine NIB from a distributor and Im done with it. I don't want to call stern anymore and play phone tag with a tech I don't want to keep adjusting my $6000+ new machine. Im through. Maybe I should have waited but this is a loser. Anybody ever return a NIB?? And yes I cant recommend a KISS. The Gene head shoots STDM EVERY TIME and also gets hung up. Awesome having friends and family over and keep having to take the glass off and use a magnet to get the ball out when it gets hung up in the awful Gene head. I started just leaving the glass off. Also the drain lanes are tied with STTNG as most active. Ill go back to Judge Dredd...

    #2 5 years ago

    Wouldn't NIB mean never played? Anyway have you considered asking your dist for an exchange?

    #3 5 years ago

    You should be talking to your distributor for both the return policy and the issues with the game, not calling Stern directly.

    #4 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Im through with the KISS premium. The Gene head is just an awful awful feature that just completely ruins the game. I bought mine NIB from a distributor and Im done with it. I don't want to call stern anymore and play phone tag with a tech I don't want to keep adjusting my $6000+ new machine. Im through. Maybe I should have waited but this is a loser. Anybody ever return a NIB?? And yes I cant recommend a KISS. The Gene head shoots STDM EVERY TIME and also gets hung up. Awesome having friends and family over and keep having to take the glass off and use a magnet to get the ball out when it gets hung up in the awful Gene head. I started just leaving the glass off. Also the drain lanes are tied with STTNG as most active. Ill go back to Judge Dredd...

    I understand that sometimes if you get so frustrated with a game, for whatever reason, there's just no going back. Your distributor may give you a trade in, but you would probably get better value selling it privately. Either way you won't get all your money back. There maybe should have been more adjustability designed into the kickout (other than the kickout power). The right lane is quite open so I moved the post to the middle spot, just like the left side.

    Rob

    #5 5 years ago

    I doubt you can just return a game. You can probably get close to what you have in it on the secondary market.

    #6 5 years ago

    Sorry but I'm liking my kiss premium. Ed

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    #7 5 years ago

    I don't suppose you can buy a new car, put 2000 miles on it and say, I want to return it for a full refund. However, they should fix the issue for you, as will stern. Just need to work with them.

    #8 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    Im through with the KISS premium. The Gene head is just an awful awful feature that just completely ruins the game. I bought mine NIB from a distributor and Im done with it. I don't want to call stern anymore and play phone tag with a tech I don't want to keep adjusting my $6000+ new machine. Im through. Maybe I should have waited but this is a loser. Anybody ever return a NIB?? And yes I cant recommend a KISS. The Gene head shoots STDM EVERY TIME and also gets hung up. Awesome having friends and family over and keep having to take the glass off and use a magnet to get the ball out when it gets hung up in the awful Gene head. I started just leaving the glass off. Also the drain lanes are tied with STTNG as most active. Ill go back to Judge Dredd...

    I'm not recommending or not recommending this. But if you paid via a credit card, you may want to check with your credit card company. In most cases when paying with a credit card, the merchant must accept the return of defective merchandise within a certain time period. If you paid with AmEx, you are more than covered. Now, technically you would have to pay for the return shipping. But if you go the chargeback route, that may be an option for you to get most of your money back.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    I don't suppose you can buy a new car, put 2000 miles on it and say, I want to return it for a full refund. However, they should fix the issue for you, as will stern. Just need to work with them.

    Not really an exact comparison - most states do have lemon laws in regards to cars. If your new car consistently has the same problem(s), the dealer only has so many chances to fix it before they must accept it back for a full refund, or exchange it for a brand new car. Buyers remorse is a lot different than having a defective product that doesn't function as it should.

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    I'm not recommending or not recommending this. But if you paid via a credit card, you may want to check with your credit card company. In most cases when paying with a credit card, the merchant must accept the return of defective merchandise within a certain time period. If you paid with AmEx, you are more than covered. Now, technically you would have to pay for the return shipping. But if you go the chargeback route, that may be an option for you to get most of your money back.

    Amex will always take care of you.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Buyers remorse is a lot different than having a defective product that doesn't function as it should.

    Yeah, but genes head is a complete pile of shit. You know it too, you probably just wish you weren't sticking a magnetic stick down his throat. :-p. If stern can't fix it, it is kinda b.s. Not like jpop or skitb b.s. but b.s. Nonetheless. I still love you Gary. But the head don't work right on your Kiss machine.

    -2
    #12 5 years ago

    SDTM from demon is not a huge problem now with the ball save that was added in the next code release. It goes down the middle, you should get it back. Now the balls getting stuck in Gene's head...that does suck. Game can't clear them, and they are not coming out without a telescopic magnet. You can't play the game with them in there cause you can't lock a ball. We have had this happen to the one on route near me several times. It happens when you do two quick shots to the demon head during a MB and it's a pain in the ass.

    #13 5 years ago

    I have had the vuk under the head get jammed on my Pro. It happens if you shoot 2 balls in there basically at the same time. There needs to be a change to the design so that cannot happen or this will be a huge detriment to having this game on route. The game has been out long enough though that you would think there would be a tech bulletin. Has anyone else contacted Stern about the ball jams and if so, what have they said?

    Rob

    #14 5 years ago

    The ball save doesn't work in multiball. Hit genes head and wham lose the ball. Im sorry this game should have been designed better. Mine plays just awful.

    #15 5 years ago

    There is not one bone in my body that would sell this game to another person. Im not that guy. this game is awful and I would never pass the buck to someone else.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    There is not one bone in my body that would sell this game to another person. Im not that guy. this game is awful and I would never pass the buck to someone else.

    One man's trash is another man's treasure.

    #17 5 years ago

    I put a bunch of games on a pro tonight and had no issue.........maybe yours is dimpled differently. Sorry for your problems.

    -8
    #18 5 years ago

    On a positive note I just played my STTNG for the first time in a long time. its still the absolute worst playing game ever...

    25
    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    On a positive note I just played my STTNG for the first time in a long time. its still the absolute worst playing game ever...

    You should try buying a game you like for the next one and see how it goes.

    #20 5 years ago

    I really hoped I would like KISS.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    I really hoped I would like KISS.

    It sounds like you enjoy the game, but it is broken, correct?

    #22 5 years ago

    This thread reminded me of your great love for your Black Rose!
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-rose-is-a-tough-game

    #23 5 years ago

    The distributor who sold you the game is the only one who can answer you.
    Call him and try to be friendly. I don't think he's legally required to take it back but depending on demand for the title and if you bought more games from him already (or are maybe interested in trading it towards a GOT ?), he may take it back from you.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    There is not one bone in my body that would sell this game to another person. Im not that guy. this game is awful and I would never pass the buck to someone else.

    So someone that buys this might have the ability to tweak it until it plays really well.

    #25 5 years ago

    Install a center post on all your games.

    #26 5 years ago

    My demon head never throws it down the middle. I can see a guide thing in the mouth that's off to one side. I'd check yours has this.

    #27 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    On a positive note I just played my STTNG for the first time in a long time. its still the absolute worst playing game ever...

    Do you play these games before you buy them?

    10
    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    On a positive note I just played my STTNG for the first time in a long time. its still the absolute worst playing game ever...

    You don't like STTNG??? Sorry but now you lost me, are you sure this hobby is for you?

    #29 5 years ago
    Quoted from SilverBallz:

    Do you play these games before you buy them?

    Now that's not right to say.

    How many people pre-order games here on Pinside before release.

    13
    #30 5 years ago

    My buddy has a a wife that will complain no matter what the waiter brings. I used to think that she had really bad luck at restaurants. Now we just don't ask them out to dinner.

    #31 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    On a positive note I just played my STTNG for the first time in a long time. its still the absolute worst playing game ever...

    Ok, I laughed my ass off on this post.

    Joe, don't give up on the KISS. Demand that an entire new Gene assembly be sent to you. I have the LE and I must be lucky because the only issue I have had with mine was my spinner not registering properly. Stern and/or your distributor will fix this.

    #32 5 years ago
    Quoted from yzfguy:

    My buddy has a a wife that will complain no matter what the waiter brings. I used to think that she had really bad luck at restaurants. Now we just don't ask them out to dinner.

    And I bet she wonders why no one asks them to dinner anymore.

    #33 5 years ago

    I know this post was not a complete joke, just frustration, but he is the "real deal" for collectors that embark in the NIB experience.

    Unless special provisions via purchase contract were made, no.

    Why?

    1) Most machines from a distributor are generally special orders as they no longer order many in advance due to overhead costs (unlike the OLD days) unless they are a HUGE distributor like Betson's, and ABSOLUTELY NOT if they premium or LE
    2) The game has been PLAYED, therefore it no longer is NIB, even only played 20X, and the distributor would take a loss in resale, it is just like when you buy a new car and drive it off the lot. I get a real kick out of owner's selling machines that they "played 100X" and then expect to turn right around and sell it for the purchase price, when they get bored. This always has steamed me. Nobody does that, because if the owner wants a machine, they will buy one themselves if it a new title. This is just being "pintarded".
    3) Many distributors have a no refund policy for the above reasons, particularly due to "buyer's remorse" with first time owners or for tech reasons.

    Basically, you bought it, you keep it.
    However, hopefully your seller (if not a pure distributor), gave tech support for free on a limited warranty.
    Keep in mind, Stern may be providing upgrade kits in the future for corrections if their are design achilles heels with the game. YOU can help identify the problems and get the kit made! (I did this with LOTR)
    WMS/BLY machine had the same types of problems.

    Did you even do a proper BURN IN by letting the game run for a couple of hours with testing?
    For some reason, I do not think so, as game adjustments are fairly common requirements.
    What I think happened is you set it up, dropped the balls in, and started playing.
    Then you go, its not working right!
    That is not the order of how to proper set up a NIB machine whether on a route or in a home.
    I know because I have done both as a pinball technician, and a home owner.

    In this case, if you do choose to sell it at the present time, expect to sell it for a loss.
    Perhaps down the road, it may be different.

    #34 5 years ago

    I got a chance to play this game at EXPO and thought it was an absolute blast. And I cant stand KISS (the band)

    Sorry to hear you guys are having issues with the head assembly. The ones at EXPO seemed pretty solid so maybe there's a fix.

    #35 5 years ago

    If a game has a defect that can't be fixed after 3 attempts then he should be able to return it just like the lemon laws for new cars. Either they fix it or he should get a new one or a refund.

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from Richthofen:

    I doubt you can just return a game. You can probably get close to what you have in it on the secondary market.

    What?

    This is plainly false.

    If someone can buy a brand new game shipped to his door, why would that someone pay close to what OP has in it?

    Do you pay the same price for a used car as a brand new car? Do you pay as much for a lemon law recalled car as a brand new car?

    Also here's a biggie, what's more convenient having a game delivered to your house for free in a box with a warranty or having to wrap a game and transport it from another house? I mean come on that's a minimum of 2 hrs driving round trip disassembling and wrapping and loading it into your car. By far the convenience of home delivery is worth at least a couple hundred bucks.

    First he has to sell it, any buyer will want a discount (they're for sale new for crying out loud no one will pay close if they can get new for close to the same money). I'd want a discount for crying out loud. What's better a new game or a game someone wants to sell? It's the old deal anyone wanting to sell has to be willing to discount the pin (when they are still for sale new). I'd expect at least $600 discount (or 10% for a pro) to make me even think of buying a used pin over a NIB.

    Then the new buyer has to accept a broken machine. I can just hear the selling / buying conversation. "The pin is mint, but you need to play with the glass off in case you need to magnet the balls out of the head. That's not a big deal,is it?"

    I think the dealer and Stern need to fix this pin. If it means the dealer pays for a tech to come in and fix it, that's part of why the dealer exists, why he makes money for selling pins when 95% are trouble free, if they sell a lemon the dealer should repair or replace the machine IMO.

    I've had machines like XMLE and AcDc pre that needed new boards and the dealer or Stern just sent them out. Stern has sent me new parts on several occasions to make it right, I have no problem with Stern service, but there is something not right with a game that needs the glass taken off that much.

    #37 5 years ago
    Quoted from JosephT:

    I got a chance to play this game at EXPO and thought it was an absolute blast. And I cant stand KISS (the band)
    Sorry to hear you guys are having issues with the head assembly. The ones at EXPO seemed pretty solid so maybe there's a fix.

    Same here....I still have "Lick it up" in my head from Pintastic!

    #38 5 years ago

    If the game is defective you should be able to return it. I agree with taking it up with the CC co but talk to the distributor first.

    That said a VUK going down the middle should be an easy fix. Has anyone else had this problem? My afm used to do this from the SOL but I tweeked it. That was a used game though. You really should not have to fix it on a brand new game. You are 100% right to be upset and deserve a refund if you want it. Sterns QC just keeps getting worse.

    #39 5 years ago

    Always, always, always pay with a credit card.

    The 3% discount isn't worth it.

    #40 5 years ago

    My understanding (might be wrong) but if there is a major issue like the PF was warped (just an example) the dealer should pay for a tech to come and fix it. it's not reasonable for a dealer or Stern to send a new PF and expect an owner to repopulate it. The kick out issue on OP machine is not universal for other people not normal to go STM 100% of the time, not everyone needs to use a magnet to retrieve stuck balls. So there should be a fix, the answer does not mean the dealer takes the machine back, and returns all the money, the dealer should fix the pin.

    #41 5 years ago

    Before you give up try (politely) demanding that Stern send you a new vuk/lock mech. My issues fortunately were easily solved with menu adjustments. Yours on the other hand scream for new parts. KISS (when working properly) is one hell of a great game. Keep us posted on what you ultimately decide. Good luck!

    #42 5 years ago

    Given the expense, I don't think it will be easy to return for full refund. I would expect the distributor and Stern to work on keeping customers happy. Everything that's not working as designed should be fixable. Give your distributor a call and let them know you are not happy with it.

    #43 5 years ago

    Have you had anyone besides yourself look at this VUK to try and troubleshoot it? A 2nd pair of eyes never hurts, and they may see something or have ideas that you haven't tried yet.

    #44 5 years ago

    Add a piece of adhesive backed felt, or other, at the top underneath of the VUK,
    It is invisible, removable, costs little, and can alter the path of a ball depending on placement.
    Might help?

    #45 5 years ago
    Quoted from joekiss:

    On a positive note I just played my STTNG for the first time in a long time. its still the absolute worst playing game ever...

    If I could only keep one pin it would be STTNG.

    #46 5 years ago

    how steep do you have your game set? Are you sure it's level?

    #47 5 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Add a piece of .....

    Or just swap out the songs with some good music like what was done to this AC/DC

    Capture.jpg

    #48 5 years ago
    Quoted from sepins:

    Now that's not right to say.
    How many people pre-order games here on Pinside before release.

    None of those people should be expecting to *return* a game after delivery though.

    #49 5 years ago
    Quoted from nate1981s:

    If a game has a defect that can't be fixed after 3 attempts then he should be able to return it just like the lemon laws for new cars. Either they fix it or he should get a new one or a refund.

    3 attempts by a newb may not mean much. The problems he listed are rather simple to fix for an experienced pinball person.

    #50 5 years ago

    Also, maybe the game needs to be broken in. Put 150 games on it, add a bit of wear and it should even out.

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