Can you put a monetary number on this damage?

(Topic ID: 219589)

Can you put a monetary number on this damage?


By UFO

8 months ago



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  • Latest reply 7 months ago by ypurchn
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 80 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 8 months ago

Picked up my iron maiden premium the box had fork lift holes in it.
We inspected it( made holes bigger in the box) everything looked fine.
I asked the guy at the shipping depot. "What of I get it home and it has damage"? Bye said nod problem they have a concealed damage policy.
Trying to file a claim has been a pia, they want to know what the damage is worth. All I know is I paid 7k and they fu.. It up.
It looks like it was dropped but the damage was concealed til I unboxed it completely. And no I was not going to inbox it on the dock.

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#2 8 months ago

UFF.

Sorry for the joke ahead of it but....

Problem is there's no way to prove the shippers did it and not just the usual Stern Cabinet.

#3 8 months ago

Im so sorry this happened!
I have learned, just like you, the hard way.

NEVER accept a shipped pinball machine with box damage unless you can cut the box all the way down and see exactly what you are getting. They can always tape it back up and send it back.

After you get it home its really difficult to get traction on a replacement as too many hands are in the fire now.

However, with patience and being firm, you will get a replacement.
You really have to get it back to the depot as fast a possible and make a claim.

As far as the value of the damage, its a total loss including the shipping price.

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#4 8 months ago

7k total loss

#5 8 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

UFF.
Sorry for the joke ahead of it but....
Problem is there's no way to prove the shippers did it and not just the usual Stern Cabinet.

I totally disagree. That is not a normal split seam. The front face is bulging and cracked. This is impact damage. This guy is going to need a new lower cabinet from Stern, plus a tech for a full day to swap everything to the new cabinet.

@ UFO
Step 1 is to contact your distributor to see about getting a new lower cabinet from Stern. Step 2 is to get a quote from your distributor on the replacement cost. Step 3 is to call a local tech for a labor quote for the cabinet swap.
Step 4 is to always at least open the top of the box and peek inside to inspect for damage b4 accwpting the shipment, especially if the box is damaged.

#6 8 months ago

Why are you guys saying total loss? If the game is otherwise okay and playing, this guy just needs a new lower cabinet.

Obviously ideal to have a new pin shipped out, but that might be more difficult to accomplish.

Curious to see what his distributor recommebds

#7 8 months ago

Call your distributor ASAP. They should help you work it out. Presumably Stern'll send a replacement cabinet out (tell Stern they can fight it out with the shipping company who pays). Be sure to inspect the game extremely carefully to make sure nothing else was damaged, you'll probably only get one shot at recompense based on shipping damage. And you'll have to swap cabs which sucks, but at least you'll have a new game when you're done.

#8 8 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Why are you guys saying total loss? If the game is otherwise okay and playing, this guy just needs a new lower cabinet.
Obviously ideal to have a new pin shipped out, but that might be more difficult to accomplish.
Curious to see what his distributor recommebds

Its not that it cant be fixed.

Its that the purchase price and shipping were for an undamaged game.
A damaged game was delivered therefore not worth the purchase price.

I the game needed repairs it would have been included and listed in the purchase price.

Its the principle of it all, and that the paid for contract was not met.

The simplest remedy is to get a complete replacement shipped out ASAP.

Its about the money, as always.

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Its not that it cant be fixed.
Its that the purchase price and shipping were for an undamaged game.
A damaged game was delivered therefore not worth the purchase price.
I the game needed repairs it would have been included and listed in the purchase price.
Its the principle of it all, and that the paid for contract was not met.
The simplest remedy is to get a complete replacement shipped out ASAP.
Its about the money, as always.

The shipping company is asking "What does this cost to fix it?" so they can get their insurance to pay that amount to the buyer. (or argue about it)
The difference between "Undamaged as promised" and "Damaged like it is" is the question.

OP, Man sorry to see this. Hope you get this worked out to your satisfaction. I would suggest that the cost of replacing the lower cabinet (whatever that is) is the correct answer.

#10 8 months ago

About $800 parts, $6500 labor.

And the box itself looks too far gone to repair.

#11 8 months ago

easy way to handle this would have been to simply refuse to accept the shipment and let the shipper deal with it, truck-lines specializes in not paying claims, dragging out the process as long as possible, making it difficult as possible because they know most people will eventually just give up and or settle for much less than actual damage value

heck, they cant make money if they actually paid all the claims against them

good luck and stick with it take and save all pictures document damage and proof that it happened during transit ... not after it left their dock

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from UFO:

I asked the guy at the shipping depot. "What of I get it home and it has damage"? Bye said nod problem they have a concealed damage policy.

This statement from the guy is closely related to the general statement, "Don't worry. We'll take care of you". Every time I have had someone say that they will take care of me I wind up getting FKed.

Nowdays, if I get the "we'll take of you" routine I am asking how are you going to take care of me? What do you mean when you say....? If your product is so good why do you only have a one year warranty? How much is it going to cost to fix this thing if it break?

WTF is a concealed damage policy? I'd like to see a paper copy of the policy, please. Who determines the amount of damages? Who pays for the damage? How do I get my money back? Too late one learns these are the kinds of questions to be asking. But that service rep had a nice smile and seemed genuinely concerned. As you get older you learn.

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

This statement from the guy is closely related to the general statement, "Don't worry. We'll take care of you". Every time I have had someone say that they will take care of me I wind up getting FKed.
Nowdays, if I get the "we'll take of you" routine I am asking how are you going to take care of me? What do you mean when you say....? If your product is so good why do you only have a one year warranty? How much is it going to cost to fix this thing if it break?
WTF is a concealed damage policy? I'd like to see a paper copy of the policy, please. Who determines the amount of damages? Who pays for the damage? How do I get my money back? Too late one learns these are the kinds of questions to be asking. But that service rep had a nice smile and seemed genuinely concerned. As you get older you learn.

Yep, sadly one has to live and learn.

And, trustno1

#14 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Its not that it cant be fixed.
Its that the purchase price and shipping were for an undamaged game.
A damaged game was delivered therefore not worth the purchase price.
I the game needed repairs it would have been included and listed in the purchase price.
Its the principle of it all, and that the paid for contract was not met.
The simplest remedy is to get a complete replacement shipped out ASAP.
Its about the money, as always.

I haven't been in the pinball hobby long, and thankfully my purchases have been problem-free.

But in this situation, I hate to say I think your comment about principle and complete replacement isn't realistic. The trucking company isn't looking at this like "OMG it's a NIB Iron Maiden pinball machine, and we've ruined it!!". They're looking at it like "it's a cabinet...what's the repair cost? Agnes, call the insurance company.".

Stern and the distributor may be able to put some pressure on the trucking company, but they can't force them to cover full replacement. I'd also be very surprised (happily surprised) if Stern and/or the distributor ponied up to cover the difference and sent a new one on their own.

I've seen this type of thing many times in the flooring industry. We put in a $10k wood floor, and the appliance company scratches it putting in the refrigerator. The homeowner goes ape-shit and wants Lowes to pay to replace their floor. In the end, Lowes pays for the replacement of the scratched boards.

To the trucking company, the simplest remedy isn't to take this one back and bring him another one. The simplest thing for the trucking company is to write a check for repair. Not ideal, but realistic.

#15 8 months ago

Why are people accepting these machines when they can clearly see the damage? There was a TNA delivered with damage and the buyer is going through a claims process also, granted the situation is slightly different.

Guys, refuse shipment if you can see holes in the box or if the box has been crushed!

#16 8 months ago

Who arranged shipping, buyer or seller?

#17 8 months ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Why are people accepting these machines when they can clearly see the damage?

It's like when you are hungry and you waited a half hour to get served. You find there is cheese on your burger that you didn't order.

Do you send it back, wait a half hour and hope they get it right the second time? Or do you just remove the cheese or eat it as is..

#18 8 months ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Why are people accepting these machines when they can clearly see the damage? There was a TNA delivered with damage and the buyer is going through a claims process also, granted the situation is slightly different.
Guys, refuse shipment if you can see holes in the box or if the box has been crushed!

Yeah, if I had been at home, I would have refused shipment. Thankfully in my situation the damage was documented by my wife AND by the driver, so it was acknowledged by FedEx before he even left my house.

I'm in a similar situation to the OP. My TNA was delivered, damaged by poor handling, and we accepted delivery. I can't blame my wife, she did the best she could with the situation, but refusing delivery probably would have been best. As it is now, my distributor is already on it and I'm working through claims.

What I hope happens is that I can get a cabinet replacement, but I sure am not looking forward to the amount of work it would take to make the swap. I know FedEx won't care to pay for my time, but it's better than being left with a busted up cabinet. Here are some pics of my situation. Look how badly the box was beat up.

Here's hoping we both get it sorted out without too much of a headache.

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#19 8 months ago

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#20 8 months ago

Somebody is supposed to come assess the damage tomorrow.
And yes it is a minor thing, I still play it I don't blame stern, or my distributor.
And letting sit on the dock was not an option .

#21 8 months ago

It's probably $2100 of damage.

$1300 for the replacement cab (including shipping).

$800 to get a qualified tech to come and do the swap.

Don't forget, whatever they **assess** as the damage cost, they will pay you 1/2 of that 6 months from now when you are so tired of the ordeal, you will accept anything...

#22 8 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I totally disagree. That is not a normal split seam.

#23 8 months ago

If you have a good distributor they can probably salvage this for you. But you may have needed to at least describe the damage on whatever you signed when you picked up the game, and got the depot’s acknowledgement as well.

I did this - accepting the game because the damage was clearly cosmetic, but still, you know pinsiders and their expectations - and JJ (Game Exchange) took care of everything with the shipper and got me a nice cash settlement. I think I also may have gotten a decal replacement from Stern, where the cabinet art got scuffed.

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's probably $2100 of damage.
$1300 for the replacement cab (including shipping).
$800 to get a qualified tech to come and do the swap.
Don't forget, whatever they **assess** as the damage cost, they will pay you 1/2 of that 6 months from now when you are so tired of the ordeal, you will accept anything...

I think you're dead nuts on there, now take the money and buy some wood glue and have yourself a nice PAID vacation!

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from sethi_i:

I haven't been in the pinball hobby long, and thankfully my purchases have been problem-free.
But in this situation, I hate to say I think your comment about principle and complete replacement isn't realistic. The trucking company isn't looking at this like "OMG it's a NIB Iron Maiden pinball machine, and we've ruined it!!". They're looking at it like "it's a cabinet...what's the repair cost? Agnes, call the insurance company.".
Stern and the distributor may be able to put some pressure on the trucking company, but they can't force them to cover full replacement. I'd also be very surprised (happily surprised) if Stern and/or the distributor ponied up to cover the difference and sent a new one on their own.
I've seen this type of thing many times in the flooring industry. We put in a $10k wood floor, and the appliance company scratches it putting in the refrigerator. The homeowner goes ape-shit and wants Lowes to pay to replace their floor. In the end, Lowes pays for the replacement of the scratched boards.
To the trucking company, the simplest remedy isn't to take this one back and bring him another one. The simplest thing for the trucking company is to write a check for repair. Not ideal, but realistic.

Its breach of contract, not damages by a 3rd party.

Never accept a pinball machine with box damage unless its unboxed and gone over with a fine tooth comb.

You have every right to inspect the shipment before accepting delivery.

If you accept damaged goods and paid for undamaged goods, its your decision.

Its dificult at best to get reparation. Along with time, money, lack of use and energy.
You will not get reinbursed for the effort it takes to make it right in any way shape or form.

Simpler to reject the shipment.

#26 7 months ago

Did you pay with a credit card? Call them and plead your case, maybe they could reverse the charges. That might evoke a more timely solution.

#27 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Simpler to reject the shipment.

I agree with that. If it had been rejected...definitely bring me a new one. But with it being accepted, I think they'll view at as a claim.

#28 7 months ago

...and I just spent five minutes laughing my ass off. Thankfully he gets up and walks it out, or I'd be feeling bad about myself. I forwarded this to my warehouse manager under the heading "safety video". I'm sure he knows someone that's done that, or worse!

#29 7 months ago
Quoted from sethi_i:

I haven't been in the pinball hobby long, and thankfully my purchases have been problem-free.
But in this situation, I hate to say I think your comment about principle and complete replacement isn't realistic. The trucking company isn't looking at this like "OMG it's a NIB Iron Maiden pinball machine, and we've ruined it!!". They're looking at it like "it's a cabinet...what's the repair cost? Agnes, call the insurance company.".
Stern and the distributor may be able to put some pressure on the trucking company, but they can't force them to cover full replacement. I'd also be very surprised (happily surprised) if Stern and/or the distributor ponied up to cover the difference and sent a new one on their own.
I've seen this type of thing many times in the flooring industry. We put in a $10k wood floor, and the appliance company scratches it putting in the refrigerator. The homeowner goes ape-shit and wants Lowes to pay to replace their floor. In the end, Lowes pays for the replacement of the scratched boards.
To the trucking company, the simplest remedy isn't to take this one back and bring him another one. The simplest thing for the trucking company is to write a check for repair. Not ideal, but realistic.

We got the lowes type company to resurface the wood flooring which cost a bit.

#30 7 months ago

Ive had horrible experiences dealing with a shipping company on damages on everything from pins to furniture. Best of luck to you.

#31 7 months ago

Not L E
7k give or take lol

#32 7 months ago

That's probably an old clip but I can't stop laughing at it.

#33 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

It's like when you are hungry and you waited a half hour to get served. You find there is cheese on your burger that you didn't order...

I’d eat the burger, but I’d refuse the pin in a heartbeat!

#34 7 months ago
Quoted from lordloss:

We got the lowes type company to resurface the wood flooring which cost a bit.

Wood refinishing is an art. Especially when you start talking about large square footages. I've used the same crews for 15 years.

#35 7 months ago

Are you kidding...ASS

#36 7 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Call your distributor ASAP. They should help you work it out. Presumably Stern'll send a replacement cabinet out (tell Stern they can fight it out with the shipping company who pays). Be sure to inspect the game extremely carefully to make sure nothing else was damaged, you'll probably only get one shot at recompense based on shipping damage. And you'll have to swap cabs which sucks, but at least you'll have a new game when you're done.

I don’t think this is stern’s responsibility. Nobody over there is dumb enough to think it’s their fault.

It’s between the buyer and the shipping company now.

#37 7 months ago

Yup

#38 7 months ago
Quoted from BoJo:

That's probably an old clip but I can't stop laughing at it.

Looks like a stunt scene out of Jackass to me.

14
#39 7 months ago

I’ve had enough run-Ins with freight companies that I am not shy to tell the guy to stand by while I open the box and inspect the contents. I open all sides, look for damage. If I see anything I say “sorry man but you’ll be loading this one back on your truck”. Recently happened to me with a dialed in, obvious they dropped it. As bad as I wanted it, I didn’t want a busted one. Back on the truck it went. Fuck these shit ass shipping companies who treat multi thousand dollar items like shit. Fuck em

#40 7 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I say “sorry man but you’ll be loading this one back on your truck”.

I had no idea that phrase was even in the pinside language.

#41 7 months ago

I would have refused delivery on the spot with no hesitation. You paid for a NIB pin, and that’s what you should get. I hope it works out for you. There is a reason every distributor I’ve purchased from sends out delivery instructions that basically say, “If there is any damage, refuse delivery. If you don’t, there is nothing we can do.”

#42 7 months ago
Quoted from andrewket:

I would have refused delivery on the spot with no hesitation. You paid for a NIB pin, and that’s what you should get. I hope it works out for you. There is a reason every distributor I’ve purchased from sends out delivery instructions that basically say, “If there is any damage, refuse delivery. If you don’t, there is nothing we can do.”

That is how it works because once the freight is accepted, the claim is much more difficult. Unless damage is noted on the freight form, it is nearly impossible to go back. Certainly not the dealers fault the freight company damaged it and once the customer signed the receipt, a freight claim is out the window.

As you say, you paid for NIB and that's what you should get. I absolutely agree. That's why a customer needs to make sure it is acceptable before signing to "accept it". I have had customers open it in front of the driver if we see any sign of damage. Never hurts to be sure, tear back the box and inspect! This is an expensive item, the truck company wants written proof it was accepted in proper condition so if damage was caused later maybe while moving the machine down the stairs etc no one can come back to the truck company (yes this happens). I had a customer claim freight damage but later admitted they dropped it themselves. Truck company needs to protect themselves against potential situations like this.

In this case, the claim is likely a new cabinet cost, plus a reasonable amount of labor. Shouldn't be too bad, and I am sure the distributor will help get it taken care of. We always work with customers to get them taken care of, but fortunately freight claims are not too often.

#43 7 months ago

Dude! That sucks your Maiden finally got there and this is the condition.
Hey, has anyone mentioned you should have inspected it better, lol?
I was questioned by a freight company once to appraise the damage if a game that had been speared by a forklift on the bottom. (Safecracker)
My monetary value to them wasn't what it would cost to fix the damage, it rather how much had the game been de-valued. In other words, how much could you sell your Maiden for with the new damage?
Just something to consider, when thinking like they will.
But I have a feeling you might get a new cab from Stern, you know anyone over there?
And the bottom cab swap isn't an 8 hour job, and you get some decent spare parts! Later

#44 7 months ago
Quoted from DNO:

Hey, has anyone mentioned you should have inspected it better, lol?

Not a one.

#45 7 months ago

Lol thanksDNO .

#46 7 months ago

Well, if it helps, I estimated my cost for materials and labor to be $871 (yes, I went exact as I could) to strip old decals, bondo/sanding/painting, and re-applying new decals. The biggest cost is the labor, mostly from removing the cabinet internals and reassembly. Given that your cabinet is more structurally damaged, you'll probably just do a cabinet swap, which would be faster, but more expensive on the materials side (cabs cost more than decals).

I would guess you're in the $1200-$1500 range when it's all said and done as far as claims go.

#47 7 months ago
Quoted from DNO:

Dude! That sucks your Maiden finally got there and this is the condition.
Hey, has anyone mentioned you should have inspected it better, lol?
I was questioned by a freight company once to appraise the damage if a game that had been speared by a forklift on the bottom. (Safecracker)
My monetary value to them wasn't what it would cost to fix the damage, it rather how much had the game been de-valued. In other words, how much could you sell your Maiden for with the new damage?
Just something to consider, when thinking like they will.
But I have a feeling you might get a new cab from Stern, you know anyone over there?
And the bottom cab swap isn't an 8 hour job, and you get some decent spare parts! Later

What spare parts? Are you speaking from experience? When I received a replacement lower cab from Stern it was completely bare. I had to disassemble the entire pin and swap over every single piece and nut.

Trust me. Make sure a substantial amount for labor is included in the payout. Like $1000.

#48 7 months ago

I don't understand not wanting to open the box there at the dock to inspect for likely damage.

#49 7 months ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I don't understand not wanting to open the box there at the dock to inspect for likely damage.

He said he did not want to unbox the game on the loading dock.

A freight terminal is super loud, with a greasy black floor, dim florescent flickering lighting, people yelling and HiLos wizzing past.

#50 7 months ago

Hate to say it but, you should have unboxed it on the dock. No way in hell I'm driving off with a box unopened that's been forked. I'd open it if it had so much as a crease in the cardboard.

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