Nah, I think we should slam them more. I say, they bought their NIB, they knew what they were getting into. Let em crash!

I think part of business and keeping costs lower is to allow some hiccups along the line and do your best to fix the problems as they crop up. Aim for and achieve A- at a significantly lower cost than A+.

If there's a simple fix and the manufacturer makes it right, it seems silly to me to be "pissed off" over a 10 minute and 5 dollar fix. If it's something major, then yeah, that kind of sucks.

if it weren't for NIB sales, there would not be any used sales.

You are correct, sir!

The less-than-perfect delivery of NIB pins is reflective of many American businesses. I recently purchased a new home and it had many "bugs"...6 months later, most of the issues are resolved. If people want to "vent", it's their right. It's therapy to some people. Like you, I don't understand why the buyers are slammed. Nevertheless, anyone who posts anything on a site with thousands of subscribers is apt to upset someone. Just try and sell a pin and watch the sparks fly as people debate your asking price!

I'm all for people buying NIB and if pin prices were like they were 5 or so years ago here I'd probably have bought a TWD pro NIB. Some people who slam posters seem jealous, some seem to hate stern but sometimes it's just people slamming them for over reacting to an issue. There's also the case of people arguing to defend their decision, it's like the ps4/xbox thing where people who wait to buy want to tell everyone how they are smarter for waiting.

Pinball machines aren't like buying a new TV with limited moving parts, one little thing loose can cause all sorts of issues and people buying NIB need to be aware that not everything will be caught by stern and not everything will be 100% after shipping. In my own experience I've had wires and plugs come loose just moving pins 30minutes in the back of a car, as long as stern help with the issue sure it's upsetting not being able to play day one but it's not the end of the world. The cases where there are problems is when stern take months to resolve something like the warped playfield.

Just like my women I always get games that are used. Some more than others. If somebody wants to pay extra for one that isn't broken in yet then more power to them!

Been asking for this for years

I say hang the rich.

Why should those fat cats get away with perfect games, while us working class slobs have to fix up junkers they passed over?

If they can't format a $5 SD card, smooth out a decal wrinkle with a hair dryer, or plug in a loose connector - I say fnck them and the foreign auto they rode in on.

Totally agree with this post.
Yes, there are gonna be hicups. But they way they are handled is what the problem is.

To an earlier post in this thread. There was problems with your new house correct. So did the builder drop off what was needed and say "here you go, fix our mistakes." No they came and fixed it.

The problem is not buying NIB machines. It is the fact that if you have a issue with cabinet decals or a playfield you will get replacements but are expected to install them youself.

Instead of being shipped a new machine. And the defective one picked up.
Maybe some distributors would do this for you. And hopefully bill Stern.
But since it is a manufacturing issue. Stern should be doing this on their dime.

But I have yet to hear of this happening.

To make an example. Buy a T.V. that doesnt work. And instead of being able to return it for a working one, the manufacturer sends you replacement boards you need to install yourself. Or you order a new car and the paint is peeling or chipped. So the manufacturer sends you a can of paint.

This is not acceptable. So why do some people on pinside think that because its pinball this way of dealing with defects is ok.
To them I say, I guess your standards on what you spend your money on are pretty low.

And when you are buying a pinball machine I guess the playfield condition, boards, and cabinet mean nothing.

Those NIB games have warped, chipped playfields, poorly routed cables, loose connectors, damaged decals, resetting CPUs, flakey light boards, and take 3 years to ship.

I've been told my used games play 100% when last checked, lights up when I plug it in, and if they have a problem it's probably just a fuse.

I'm in on Alien paid in full LE#110, and have bought many Stern LE's NIB plus a Tron pro, thats all they had. I'm out for now with Stern simply due to price and what is delivered but hope to be back soon, I was in with a Hobbit LE just lost interest, the theme isn't important enough to me to wait any longer and The Predator did its damage, I would never give someone else flak for buying anything, except maybe a man buying sandles but thats a whole other issue.

article-0-16BDC0A6000005DC-426_468x437.jpg

Levi, you forgot your sarcasm emoticon.

Let gay guys dress however they want.

Sandals and socks is part of their identity.

Anyone who knows Vid knows he's kidding. He's posted more self help stuff here than I can read.

Is there any help for socks and sandles? I don't think so.

Vids guide to socks and sandals... An interesting read.

The irony: the people who defend Stern on little issues because "that's just pinball", are the same ones who will hurt their business.

To grow, they need casual players, not die hard purists who insist someone should understand because that's just the way it is.

Good luck with that. If a casual fan buys a $8k Kiss machine because they love Kiss and it doesn't turn on, do they care "it's just pinball" or "hey, just switch out the SD card". That person will think long and hard before buying another NIB.

And not every die hard will accept that either, even if they could fix these " little issues".

You never gain customers by making mistakes (no matter how small). It's just a matter of how many you lose.

Im sure that's why Stern expanded their facilities - to limit their customer base on NIB. Stern doesn't make money on HUO purchases waiting for someone else to work out the kinks.

If I'm hosting an event and some poor soul shows up with sandles, socked or not then his feet are promptly bagged and tied off above the ankle to both hide the horror and for his own sake, the shame he must feel.

a2cca0b069ed5ce4adf82c42f0b4dd474a8cf76d.jpg

For those in the know about the video game industry, it's kinda a similar bag (although new games are 60 dollars, not thousands). Tons of AAA releases are coming out now which are incomplete or not working entirely because of the availability of patches and downloadable content. Online gamers often fall victim to unplayable games due to uneven stress testing of the servers. This falls on the developer's shoulders and they are to blame. I respect them (and Stern) for making interesting and good titles, but they should have enough pride and respect to make sure that people who support them directly by buying NIB are taken care of by finalizing all QA and software before shipping.

It's not going to happen.

Shipping is about $500 each way.

Jersey Jack made ~1000 WOZs. Most of those needed lighting boards replaced, some multiple times.

Do you think JJP would still be in business if they had to replace 1000 machines??

What would they do with the 1000 refurbished machines? By Federal law, they can not be sold as new.

Even if they picked up and returned 1000 machines after repair, do you think JJP had/has a spare $1,000,000 to pay for the shipping alone?

-

Let's say you bought a $6,000 Ural motorcycle and you had it shipped to Utah, because there is no local dealer (or you were trying to cheat your State out of the Sales Tax).

Now lets say that the speedometer breaks in the first day.

Do you you think Ural is going to send you a brand new bike, and pick up the old one?

Or do you think Ural is going to send you a new speedometer that you will have to install yourself, because you did not buy it from a local dealer?

I do not understand anybody thumbing down the the very first post on this subject, what is wrong with some of you people......... What the f..k.

The long distance purchase of a Pinball machine is always going to happen. For me to return my NIB to our only Official Stern Supplier in Canada is a 2181 mile trip. If your distributor is local then great service is what I would expect, and you are fortunate. When you live out of the area of the distributor then getting sent replacement parts is a fair process, not great, but fair.

You did not read what I wrote.

The context was that Stern was not going to pick up a machine, repair it, then return it to the customer.

I need to toe the Pinside line here, as I've caught a couple of (deserved) warnings and ejections recently and would like greatly to not repeat my mistakes. So I'm trying to speak my piece as gently as possible:

I don't know who the OP is talking to when they refer to as "we" in the thread title. I have certainly never begrudged anyone on Pinside for how they spend their money. Phrases such as "we" and "you people" tend to make me cringe.

It seems as though the OP creates quite a bit of posts that are disingenuous, and this strikes me as one of them. Thus, the need to neg the initial post. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, certainly not "what the f..k" levels of wrongness, at least.

So, yeah, "we" aren't slamming NIB buyers one bit, over here. In fact, i applaud you ladies and gentlemen, taking risks and living on the edge!

I agree small issuse yes. But they will also always tell you to go back to the closest dealer for warranty work first.

But if the engine on my Ural siezes the next day they are not going to send you the internal engine parts or a crated engine and say they solved the problem.
It will have to get fixed by the closest dealer under warranty. And they will do the work.

if the paint starts peeling off the next day they are not going to send you a can of paint.

Stern can send out boards, SD cards etc. For the easily replacable/fixed issues. But expecting a buyer to do a decal swap or full playfield swap on a new machine is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Those should be either picked up and replaced with another NIB by the distributor and billed to Stern. Or it should be replaced by Stern themselves.

Or picked up by the distributor and the work done. But I bet most distributors don't have the knowledge or means to do a cabinet redecal or playfield swap properly or at all.

Or would want to do it, on a NEW machine.
They are distributors not restoration.

Stop living in the 60s....

They're called mandals now .

Once you get past the used part, its fine

Ok, i get it now, kanedo has very few fans and posts a lot about everything. But he is right about this IMO.

HA! Kanedo.

Getting to acquire and play ANY pinball machine, NIB or otherwise, is a "glorious" experience.

The great thing about this hobby and the best aspect of Pinside is the willingness of others to help when something does go wrong with your purchase.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've gotten help fixing stuff, especially in the early years when I didn't know how to lift up the play field or change out a bulb or fuse!

It's all good, fun times.

I was agreeing with you just adding a similar perspective. Just did not quote your whole post.

My perspective is that people are whining about little and known issues. We have to stop that because we are crying wolf. "How could they ship it like that", "You pay 8k it should be perfect", "I broke a nail unboxing it, Stern should pay for my manicure!"

The issue that causes is that when people have what I consider to be real issues with their games it sounds like just more noise. Stuff like the decals that are a mess on a guys new game. Companies are selling these into homes now, and that kind of thing is expensive and should be fixed.

So I'm saying that we should give manufacturers the chance to fix issues by tucking an SD card into the mail, or whatever part is needed. Sure, post the issue so we all know, but give them that chance to fix it.

And the manufacturers should step up just a bit because they are selling into our houses. That means every KISS box anywhere gets an SD wrapped in cardboard taped to the box. And it means before you ship a pin to Hawaii (or anywhere) make sure the common issues of the door screws are tightened correctly. See that? Equal opportunity for game manufacturers to fix their known issues.

and Pinside would be unfortunately diminished.

haha, I'm one of the lucky ones I guess. Stern tucked no less than 12 new SD cards neatly into my Gene head for me to use. Unfortunately it's all version 1.02 and not 1.03 LOL!

IMG_09961.jpg

It's pretty much impossible to do anything on an internet forum "once and for all". People are going to post what they are going to post. You should just avoid posts you don't care to read.

Yeah, I don't like the "we" at all. I don't care what people do with their money. Buy old stuff, buy NIB stuff, I don't care and I've never said anything on the subject, so nice painting with the broad "we" brush there.

I agree. It's only a few buttheads screaming. Don't put me in that bunch. Old new I dont care. Like them all.
Problems here get blow out of proportion. I do get tired of the Stern bashing. They have the same problems the old guys did (Williams). Somehow these old builders are put on high...But Lloyd and Vid can tell you they were guilty of the same sh@t.

Mind you, nobody wants a bum new machine. I get it. They have every right to voice their concerns here. I dont like when a few take the thread too far, and it becomes less than constuctive.

They get slammed because they ask for full price when they go to sell their NIB machines

No matter what, people are people and that won't change.
People buy things, the vast majority will be pleased, the minority will have issues.

But I don't think anyone is "slamming" NIB buyers. I'm actually not even sure where that's coming from. People may make quips about "see what happens when you buy NIB" but I don't think that's ever been seriously directed at the buyer. It's pretty squarely targeted at the manufacturer and their QA.

This is one of the things I hate seeing here on the forum. It just seems there's a lot of jealousy. You can't win if you sell a game for more than what people think it's worth, you can't win if you bought a game super cheap, and you can't win if you bought an expensive game.

I don't know. I was raised to only worry about myself. It's not my business to judge what other people do with their money. People assume that if someone else has something, they deserve the same thing too. I've had friends say they were jealous over my 700+ DVD/BluRay collection, and wished "They had disposable income too." I have to remind them, that my movie collection is my "vacation fund," and that I'd love to take that island vacation that they always take every year too. But I don't.

It just drives me nuts. They see one thing, but don't consider what they're spending their money on. They just assume that just because one person has something they don't have, that just automatically makes you rich.

I find Pinside very entertaining. I enjoy reading new unboxing posts, and I enjoy reading what problems people have with their machines. But I never judge people on what they spend their money on, that's their own business, not mine. So I hate seeing others ripping people apart, just because of what others have decided to spend their money on.

And one day I hope to purchase a NIB game. There's just something about being the first one to own and play a machine. I'm sure that's a great feeling. And when or if that happens, I'm sure I'll be posting here to show it off.

You're right... I don't really remember seeing anyone getting beat up for buying new. For the most part, the strongest opinion is telling NIB buyers to wait a little before buying. That has been rock solid advice in every instance except for Tron LE (and I'm pretty sure Stern realized they goofed it afterwards by not offering Premium).

We are in this weird zone where games previously considered commercial equipment designed to make money have become things to be coveted in a home. If a game went on location and made $500 a month, an op didn't give a crap if it had decal wrinkles or other sketchy fit & finish issues. A guy that is going to bring it home, add hundreds of dollars in mods & polish it every 50 plays is a demographic pretty much 100% opposed to where the industry was at until about 10 years ago.

If there was ever a time to turn it around a little with some old school paint and stencils, the 70's look of Kiss would have been it. Would the home guys be bitching about that though? The home market is fickle, so its a tough call!

Man, I'd be totally good with that. Just a swirl design down the side of that cab. Or even the Evel Knievel kind of picture of the motorcycle. Bring back the paint sprayer!!!

Why is this the manufacturer's fault?

But this isn't?

It seems to me like this is a case of all or nothing. You can either argue that when you buy NIB and it has manufacturing defects and incomplete code, the manufacturer is not doing its job and that the buyer did not get what he/she should have been expecting.

Or you can argue "buyer beware". There's a large enough sample size of NIB buyers where it is known that there's a decent chance that there will be something wrong with your game and that code will be incomplete. If you want to buy NIB knowing all of this, don't complain!

People are allowed to have opinions

The End

why not just buy NIB and let it sit in the box for 10 years . . .

. . . then you would have no idea if there was anything wrong or not.

Doesn't bother me in the least, I could give a rats ass what people buy or sell a game for. I pay what "I" think is a fair price for a game "I'm" buying, what others pay is their business. Makes life on Pinside soooooo less stressful.

I do like your post though.