(Topic ID: 220482)

Can someone put a value on this please?


By Tomass

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 53 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by oldtowner
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 53 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 1 year ago

    Just curious what this machine is worth. No estimated value given on pinside. Someone replied to my ad with this Big Brave. Any input is appreciated, thanks guys.

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    #2 1 year ago

    pf looks nice, no major paint loss. backglass about a 7, has flaking in some areas. Overpainted cab, big negative. If its working 400-500, non working 300. Does it have the lockdown bar, that would cost $100 etc. I see this is Alaska where games are scarce... add $150...

    #3 1 year ago

    No cabinet artwork is going to devalue it. I'd say $350.

    #4 1 year ago

    Stated as working but need to hit something to add a credit. Not sure if he meant the switch or a relay or some wires but not a big deal I imagine.

    #5 1 year ago

    Yes, lockdown and pf glass.

    #7 1 year ago

    $350 to $400 I do wonder about it being in Alaska though. I would imagine getting pins up there would be pretty difficult. Perhaps that adds something?

    #8 1 year ago

    $400 max. If you're lucky cabinet was repainted with latex paint which can be removed.

    #9 1 year ago

    I wouldn't want it. Maybe $250. No drop targets. It's not a wedgehead and the cabinet has been repainted.

    #10 1 year ago

    I think this has drop targets.

    #11 1 year ago

    I really appreciate everyone's input.

    #12 1 year ago

    Wow, is that what under EMs are going for now ?

    Those days in the 80s where some sellers would give you a EM game, just to get out of the house, are gone.

    #13 1 year ago

    Big Brave is the 2 player version of Big Indian -pinside says $600.

    Did anyone notice he is in Alaska? All bets are off on prices up there. If you find a machine you pay the price. A $100 either way isn't going to make a difference in the long run.

    Big Brave/Indian is actually a great game. I found a very nice one in ATL and offered $1000 but they weren't ready to sell at the time.

    In ATL, as I'm sure in AK, the pinside EM prices are way under estimated. Beaters in ATL go for 600-850.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from darcangeloel:

    $350 to $400 I do wonder about it being in Alaska though. I would imagine getting pins up there would be pretty difficult. Perhaps that adds something?

    "Ice Road Truckers"

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from poppapin:

    "Ice Road Truckers"

    Hahaha my thoughts exactly. I can't imagine getting something big and heavy shipped up there would be cheap so it makes me wonder.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from darcangeloel:

    Hahaha my thoughts exactly. I can't imagine getting something big and heavy shipped up there would be cheap so it makes me wonder.

    There are quite a few already up here. The market is certainly not like the lower 48, but if you are persistent and not afraid to work on a pin, it's not bad. Talking to other collectors, it seems that it is harder to get full value out of higher end stuff, but that seems to be changing too.

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from bonzo71:

    I think this has drop targets.

    You're right. It's worth more than $250 and is worth restoring. Still not a wedgehead.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Still not a wedgehead.

    I don’t get the wedgehead fetish. There’s only a couple that are even decent to play... I’ve found I enjoy the Williams and Bally machine far better.

    #19 1 year ago

    Alaska...location,location,location has to set the price higher. How scarce are pins over there? I doubt you're flooded with machines like over here in the northeast.
    Even as pictured and assuming it's not playing 100% it's gotta be worth $700 over there? Heck over here I'd pay $500 if I really
    wanted it.
    -Mike

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    I don’t get the wedgehead fetish. There’s only a couple that are even decent to play... I’ve found I enjoy the Williams and Bally machine far better.

    Which ones are decent?

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    I don’t get the wedgehead fetish. There’s only a couple that are even decent to play... I’ve found I enjoy the Williams and Bally machine far better.

    I think the point he is making is that almost any wedgehead would at least be better than this turd.

    #22 1 year ago

    Pluses are a pretty nice playfield and it’s a decent game. Minuses are repainted cabinet, lots of flaking on the backglass and needs tuning up. I’d say $300 to $400 depending on location/market in your area.

    #23 1 year ago

    Honesty pays off. I was truthful with him and let him know he could get more listing it on CL than I could spend. I would have tons of time and lots of money needed to do a proper resto. I even shared this thread since he is not a pinhead. He would rather it go to me for less so it gets restored. I will have better pics in a resto thread down the road. Once again thanks to everyone.

    #24 1 year ago

    Was not sure I was ready for another project but I could not pass up this deal. I also found 2 complete tune up kits inside the cabinet. Someone paid $43 a piece for those so it almost evened out to sale price. It seems like someone had started to restore it. Overall very happy with it.

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    #25 1 year ago

    Nice! Machine looks nice and if it is working you did great!

    #26 1 year ago

    It gets better! Quick wipe with laquer thinner and I can see the original stencil work is there and looks to be in tact possibly.

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    #27 1 year ago

    Even better.

    #28 1 year ago

    lacquer thinner will ruin the original paint. Use a latex paint remover (or try it first).

    #29 1 year ago

    Alcohol works well too. But test first.

    #30 1 year ago

    Ok. I will start with alcohol. Just set it up. Had to add credit manually in backbox and it started a game! Needs a flipper coil for sure. Few reels don't reset or add score but everything works. The scores that do not count do not chime either so some tweaking to do but it works. Automatically went to player 2 ball 1 also but all just some hunting now.

    #31 1 year ago

    Alcohol is working. I assume it must be latex then? Gonna go slow and test the back to see how it affects the original paint.

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    #32 1 year ago

    Alcohol shouldn't hurt the factory paint. I don't think lacquer thinner would either if used sparingly, but the fumes from that stuff will shorten your lifespan.
    Use 92% alcohol and at least 80 proof for yourself as you're working at it.

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    Needs a flipper coil for sure.

    Why do you think it needs this? Is it missing?

    #34 1 year ago

    Thought the right flipper was weaker than the other but they are both weak. Still working on a bonus issue in a help thread then I will look into this.

    #35 1 year ago

    Flippers probably need to be rebuilt...

    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    Thought the right flipper was weaker than the other but they are both weak.

    Coils don't get weak, they either work or they don't. Now typically what causes flippers to appear weak is not the coil (unless it has physical damage or signs of melting) are extraneous electrical issues or mechanical binding.

    I'd check to make sure you have the correct voltages at the coils, through the end of stroke switches and cabinet switches. Make sure the EOS and cabinet switches are cleaned and adjusted. An EOS that opens too soon will make a flipper weak.

    After that, make sure the coil sleeves are clean, bushings aren't cracked, coil stops and plungers aren't mushroomed and that there is slight up/down play between the bat and bushing. Sometimes the pawl and crank can be gummed up from someone trying to 'lube' them in the past with oil or WD40.

    If you get all that sorted out and it just doesn't seem as snappy (EMs aren't as snappy as modern games) there are a couple things you can try. The first is set the game on high tap at the transformer. This involves desoldering a wire from the normal tap lug and soldering to the high tap lug. Or you can try orange dot or yellow dot coils, but be warned on either of these that you can start to break drop targets and plastics if the flippers are too 'hot'.

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ozone:

    Those days in the 80s where some sellers would give you a EM game, just to get out of the house, are gone.

    $350-400 for this Big Brave.

    Acquiring free games happen.
    I picked up a German export Firecracker (Bally, 1971) for free a little over a month ago.
    People need to work harder.
    Games don't come to you, a person goes to the games.

    The one difference is it might not be the game a person wants, so use them as trade fodder for what person does want.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Coils don't get weak, they either work or they don't. Now typically what causes flippers to appear weak is not the coil (unless it has physical damage or signs of melting) are extraneous electrical issues or mechanical binding.
    I'd check to make sure you have the correct voltages at the coils, through the end of stroke switches and cabinet switches. Make sure the EOS and cabinet switches are cleaned and adjusted. An EOS that opens too soon will make a flipper weak.
    After that, make sure the coil sleeves are clean, bushings aren't cracked, coil stops and plungers aren't mushroomed and that there is slight up/down play between the bat and bushing. Sometimes the pawl and crank can be gummed up from someone trying to 'lube' them in the past with oil or WD40.
    If you get all that sorted out and it just doesn't seem as snappy (EMs aren't as snappy as modern games) there are a couple things you can try. The first is set the game on high tap at the transformer. This involves desoldering a wire from the normal tap lug and soldering to the high tap lug. Or you can try orange dot or yellow dot coils, but be warned on either of these that you can start to break drop targets and plastics if the flippers are too 'hot'.

    It's cheap enough to replace the EOS and cabinet switches with new ones.
    Also, the return springs shouldn't be wound tightly. They only need enough torsion to gently return the flippers to the home position.

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from schudel5:Coils don't get weak, they either work or they don't.

    Is that right? We check for coil resistance. If the resistance of a coil changes (reduces), doesn't that mean that the power of the coil is changing?

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from oldtowner:

    Is that right? We check for coil resistance. If the resistance of a coil changes (reduces), doesn't that mean that the power of the coil is changing?

    I agree that in 99.9% of cases, a coil either works, or it does not. However, I imagine it's possible that a coil could partially overheat, and develop a partial internal short circuit which would effectively lower it's resistance and would probably make it stronger than it originally was. I think this would be a rare occurrence, but possible nonetheless.

    #41 1 year ago

    Thanks JR (and Schudel5) - it's starting to make sense to me now. I've read that removing some windings from a coil makes it stronger, which would be the same as a partial internal short circuit? My problem is that this seems counter-intuitive, since removing (say) all but one winding would make the coil very strong? I ought to get this, as I first made an electromagnet in 1963! (Never too late to learn......)

    #42 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    It gets better! Quick wipe with laquer thinner and I can see the original stencil work is there and looks to be in tact possibly.

    Score! Anxious to see how this turns out

    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from oldtowner:

    Thanks JR (and Schudel5) - it's starting to make sense to me now. I've read that removing some windings from a coil makes it stronger, which would be the same as a partial internal short circuit? My problem is that this seems counter-intuitive, since removing (say) all but one winding would make the coil very strong? I ought to get this, as I first made an electromagnet in 1963! (Never too late to learn......)

    If you remove too many windings, the resistance will drop to the point where it is no longer a coil, but a dead short.

    #44 1 year ago

    Before you make any changes from the original setup you should be sure everything is refreshed and set up properly.

    On this era Gottlieb I put in new flipper stops, plunger/link assembly, and coil sleeves at a minimum. I often do new bushing also. Hard file the flipper and EOS switches and make sure the EOS switches are opening as late as possible. You should have more than adequate power to hit the drops with this approach. If not maybe make the playfield a bit shallower. Make sure the flipper bat is not binding or sitting too low or too high in orientation.

    It never had the power that rectified flippers from the late EM and SS eras have.

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from jrpinball:

    Alcohol shouldn't hurt the factory paint. I don't think lacquer thinner would either if used sparingly, but the fumes from that stuff will shorten your lifespan.
    Use 92% alcohol and at least 80 proof for yourself as you're working at it.

    Isn't the original paint lacquer? I use lacquer thinner to amalgamate lacquer guitar finishes and used incorrectly can strip the finish.

    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    $350-400 for this Big Brave.
    Acquiring free games happen.
    I picked up a German export Firecracker (Bally, 1971) for free a little over a month ago.
    People need to work harder.
    Games don't come to you, a person goes to the games.
    The one difference is it might not be the game a person wants, so use them as trade fodder for what person does want.

    I was referring to how it was back in the 80’s when you could look at the daily newspaper classifieds and see new multiple listings for EM’s for sale every day. It wasn’t hard at all to find them at all back then, now it takes a little more work.

    #47 1 year ago
    Quoted from jrpinball:If you remove too many windings, the resistance will drop to the point where it is no longer a coil, but a dead short.

    Thanks JR. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll start my questions elsewhere when I've done some homework. I'm still confused because of this (typical) explanation:

    "The magnetic fields generated by the separate turns of wire all pass through the center of the coil and add (superpose) to produce a strong field there. The more turns of wire, the stronger the field produced." (Wikipedia, electromagnetic coils).

    4 weeks later
    #48 1 year ago

    Get a product called "GOOF OFF". stuff will remove the latex paint quickly and will not touch the original paint. Ive used this stuff and its great. get the liquid and not the spray can. you brush it on a section , wait a few minutes and remove with a putty knife. You will be surprised at how it lifts off the whole area. Keep a wet sponge or rag handy and wipe over the area , this helps pick up any of the stuff that got thru the latex,
    good luck!

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from weeze:

    Get a product called "GOOF OFF". stuff will remove the latex paint quickly and will not touch the original paint. Ive used this stuff and its great. get the liquid and not the spray can. you brush it on a section , wait a few minutes and remove with a putty knife. You will be surprised at how it lifts off the whole area. Keep a wet sponge or rag handy and wipe over the area , this helps pick up any of the stuff that got thru the latex,
    good luck!

    Goof-Off is a nasty chemical. Use it outdoors only! I stripped a cabinet with it once, and I think it took three years off my life. It was outdoors too.

    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from oldtowner:

    I've read that removing some windings from a coil makes it stronger, which would be the same as a partial internal short circuit? My problem is that this seems counter-intuitive, since removing (say) all but one winding would make the coil very strong?

    It is somewhat counter-intuitive, so you're correct there. Coil strength increases with the number of turns and with the current through the coil. Taking off some windings decreases the resistance of the coil, which increases the current through the coil. The increased current has a larger impact on strength than the slight decrease in the number of turns, so the net impact is a stronger coil.

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