(Topic ID: 307415)

Can not leave feedback unless it's positive now?

By Jecco74

2 years ago


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  • 106 posts
  • 70 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by robin
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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    #1 2 years ago

    I recently had a poor experience purchasing a Rob Zombie LE from JAKETHESNAKE181. It's my fault for not calling him out on the poor pictures or doing a complete inspection of the machine when he delivered it. He did have 100% positive feedback and I assumed everything would go well. I prepaid for the machine($7,000). He delivered it for an additional $500(10 hr drive). When he showed up I was having a pingolf tournament. It was dark and busy in my game room. I didn't look over the machine in detail. The next day I took off the glass and started to clean the playfield. I then noticed that the clear coat was missing around the center Hell Bound insert. I reached out to the seller and he initially stated "i dont know what to expect on clearcoat issues with spooky, it may be common." then I offered to drive the machine back to him 10 hrs away for a refund. I asked if we could come up with a resolution. He has not responded to my request or DM. I would even split the cost of a playfield swap. Am I being unreasonable to ask for a refund or a resolution that works best for both of us now that the deal is done?
    What is our recourse here on pinside if you can't leave negative feedback other than creating a thread like this?

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    #2 2 years ago

    Yup, only sunshine and daisies now...only recourse is to start a thread and blast the seller, looks like you already did that. It would be nice to be able to warn others with a negative feedback

    #3 2 years ago

    I'm confused....why can't you leave negative feedback? Are you saying the pinside system wouldn't let you leave negative feedback?

    #4 2 years ago

    I noticed Pinside also deleted old negative feedback as well.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinHigh1:

    I'm confused....why can't you leave negative feedback? Are you saying the pinside system wouldn't let you leave negative feedback?

    Yes there is only an option to leave positive feedback now. It wasn't that way when I joined.

    #6 2 years ago

    Took a look at his ads for this game. First had no photos but said it was collector quality. Other one had bad blurry photos and said it was minty. Yeah that is pretty sleazy. He intentionally avoided taking a photo of that part of the game. What do you say jakethesnake181 ?

    #7 2 years ago

    Based on the questionable photos he posted and the fact the same machine was sold pending twice I would have questioned a purchase without a bit more detail.

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    #8 2 years ago

    damn dude and paid a premium for a RZ. roast him

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    damn dude and paid a premium for a RZ. roast him

    I sent him several DMs and waited 13 days to start this thread. I really just want to work this out with a fair compromise on both ends.

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    #11 2 years ago

    Yeah so far I agree with OP.
    However since the deal was made in person you really should have inspected better. But the game was also improperly advertised. There should be a way to add this in SnakeyJakes profile.

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    #12 2 years ago

    Advertised as “Minty Mint” no mention of the gouged-out clear coat in the middle of the playfield.

    Proceeds to ignore OP when he attempts to remedy the situation.

    Snake-type behavior indeed.

    I'm with the OP on this one.

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    #13 2 years ago

    You got scammed bro, fucking ballsy of the guy to drive the game knowing it had a major issue

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    #14 2 years ago

    Sorry to hear of your troubles.

    Even MORE sorry for the entire pinside community. How can any of us trust the seller ads now knowing there is no recourse or way to vet a seller?

    Doesn't make sense why negative reviews would be removed. What is even the point of leaving positive feedback now?

    Didn't think this site was going to be like Amazon and Rotten Tomatoes etc suppressing organic feedback/reviews.

    #15 2 years ago

    How does something like that happen to the clear coat ? Just wear from playing ?

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from Oneangrymo:

    How does something like that happen to the clear coat ? Just wear from playing ?

    It’s right on the edge of that insert so maybe the insert has shifted causing stress in that area then it’s just chipped away.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    You got scammed bro, fucking ballsy of the guy to drive the game knowing it had a major issue

    Yep and he pre-payed for the machine with delivery. What if he would have checked it out and saw the playfield and then ask for money back? I would be going jail if he said NO refund. I would have beat the hell out of him and tied his ass up in my garage until he got me the money.

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    #18 2 years ago

    Bring back negative feedback!!

    Or are people supposed to just create a negative thread each time?

    #19 2 years ago

    Wow...I didn't know that had changed... Skimmed the thread...it appears that negative feedback can only be left if the seller identifies the buyer when closing out the sales listing and specifically requests feedback be given? Odd system really....I'm not sure that achieves the system's intent.

    To the OP...sorry you were seemingly duped on purpose. Caveat Emptor on this one unfortunately. Seller should have identified that obvious issue in the listing.

    #20 2 years ago

    I would leave negative feedback ....oh but I cant !

    #21 2 years ago

    Dang! Didn’t know negative feedback got removed, although I’m not surprised it was, really. I had someone get testy in a thread and went in to my profile and leave BS bad Reviews on my profile as retaliation for perceived grievances. Still.. there should be someway to let Pinside know a transaction took place and which oartues were involved w/out having that duty sit with the seller and if they want to enter in the person they sold to.. for scammers there’s no reason they’d enter that info knowing their probably going to get a bad review.

    I’m thinking after an agreement to sell - buyer and seller both check a box on the sale somehow to let Pinside know who the buyer is. Just make it a normal part of the transaction — money not sent until Pinside knows both parties and sends them an email stating that with the feedback link. If it then falls thru or one person needs to leave bad feedback it could happen. However, you’d have to make it so you could not read a persons feedback about you until you also have feedback or you risk retaliation/ he said she said scenarios

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    #22 2 years ago

    Seller lives up to his pinside name it seems

    #23 2 years ago

    What can be done? Nothing. Transaction has already occurred and now you unfortunately own an overpriced RZ with playfield wear.

    Damn right the seller drove 10 hours to unload it.

    But if you were planning on keeping it anyway because you're a big RZ fan, time to break out a Sharpie.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jecco74:

    I recently had a poor experience purchasing a Rob Zombie LE from JAKETHESNAKE181. It's my fault for not calling him out on the poor pictures or doing a complete inspection of the machine when he delivered it. He did have 100% positive feedback and I assumed everything would go well. I prepaid for the machine($7,000). He delivered it for an additional $500(10 hr drive). When he showed up I was having a pingolf tournament. It was dark and busy in my game room. I didn't look over the machine in detail. The next day I took off the glass and started to clean the playfield. I then noticed that the clear coat was missing around the center Hell Bound insert. I reached out to the seller and he initially stated "i dont know what to expect on clearcoat issues with spooky, it may be common." then I offered to drive the machine back to him 10 hrs away for a refund. I asked if we could come up with a resolution. He has not responded to my request or DM. I would even split the cost of a playfield swap. Am I being unreasonable to ask for a refund or a resolution that works best for both of us now that the deal is done?
    What is our recourse here on pinside if you can't leave negative feedback other than creating a thread like this?[quoted image]

    you definitely should not have accepted without a better inspection but whether you deserve a refund I think depends on the descriptions of the machine you were initially given.

    Person to person sales are done as is so unless he said things like no playfield wear or in perfect condition I think this one falls on you for lack of inspection, as shitty as it is that he's ghosting you now. (which makes me think he knew and was happy you never looked)

    Minty mint is far from what you got though so I think you have recourse.

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    What can be done? Nothing. Transaction has already occurred and now you unfortunately own an overpriced RZ with playfield wear.
    Damn right the seller drove 10 hours to unload it.
    But if you were planning on keeping it anyway because you're a big RZ fan, time to break out a Sharpie.

    Sales like this are as-is, but putting minty mint in the description means something.

    I would take it to small claims court if the guy keeps ghosting.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    Dang! Didn’t know negative feedback got removed, although I’m not surprised it was, really. I had someone get testy in a thread and went in to my profile and leave BS bad Reviews on my profile as retaliation for perceived grievances. Still.. there should be someway to let Pinside know a transaction took place and which oartues were involved w/out having that duty sit with the seller and if they want to enter in the person they sold to.. for scammers there’s no reason they’d enter that info knowing their probably going to get a bad review.
    I’m thinking after an agreement to sell - buyer and seller both check a box on the sale somehow to let Pinside know who the buyer is. Just make it a normal part of the transaction — money not sent until Pinside knows both parties and sends them an email stating that with the feedback link. If it then falls thru or one person needs to leave bad feedback it could happen. However, you’d have to make it so you could not read a persons feedback about you until you also have feedback or you risk retaliation/ he said she said scenarios

    Retaliatory feedback unrelated to a transaction is why they removed it. But I think that was too extreme - they should have let people appeal negative feedback like eBay does and let a moderator determine if it gets removed on a case by case basis.

    Sorry to the OP - they seller needs to throw you back $1000 and be happy that he sold an RZ with issues for $6k!

    #27 2 years ago

    Sellers should be required to indicate which user bought the machine so that user can be authorized to leave feedback. I'm sure scammers like this would just game the system but they could be restricted from selling for constantly saying "someone off site bought it" when it's not true. It would be really easy for the OP to prove he bought the machine since he now has it in his possession and can take pics to prove it.

    I know several other marketplaces that ask you who you sold it to when you mark the item as sold and they usually use who you've been messaging as the list of options.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from Anony:

    Sellers should be required to indicate which user bought the machine so that user can be authorized to leave feedback. I'm sure scammers like this would just game the system but they could be restricted from selling for constantly saying "someone off site bought it" when it's not true. It would be really easy for the OP to prove he bought the machine since he now has it in his possession and can take pics to prove it.
    I know several other marketplaces that ask you who you sold it to when you mark the item as sold and they usually use who you've been messaging as the list of options.

    No need to put extra rules in place, I feel bad for the op but they didn't ask for better pictures in decent lighting or inspect it properly when dropped off. I have done some similar things when buying games but blamed myself for not being more diligent and just moved on.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from manadams:

    No need to put extra rules in place, I feel bad for the op but they didn't ask for better pictures in decent lighting or inspect it properly when dropped off. I have done some similar things when buying games but blamed myself for not being more diligent and just moved on.

    Their lack of inspection was partly based on the description saying it was minty though. Do you think they would have inspected it closer if the ad had said there was playfield wear? The answer is undoubtedly yes.

    As is sales still don't allow for deception by the seller, They have to be honest on the ad.

    It would allow them to bring back negative feedback in a way that avoids the issue it originally caused so I think it's worth looking into.
    Also makes it easier to catch if people are faking sales to push the market up.

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    #30 2 years ago

    Pretty ridiculous that negative feedback cant be left. It encourages scams like this. Pinside is not helping buyers or sellers for that matter.
    Maybe a moderator can chime in and provide an explanation.
    The possibility of negative feedback in a transaction encourages people to work out disputes before bad feedback is given.

    #31 2 years ago

    Is there any honest people left in pinball?

    #32 2 years ago

    Personally, I think Robin has gotten it right given all the pitfalls and administrative headaches of a negative feedback tool - and don’t want Pinside to turn primarily into a market site that tries to referee wide ranging expectations between members. The buying/selling aspect of the hobby while an important, fun part is already too dominant on the site IMO. The lack of positive feedback from respected, experienced Pinsiders should prompt further investigation (forum search, etc.) and “proceed with caution.” Having the ability to start a thread for truly bad, or good, experiences seems like the best option to me.

    #33 2 years ago

    Can't tell the truth anymore ..... All rainbows and unicorns people....... get with the times.........

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from luckymoey:

    Personally, I think Robin has gotten it right given all the pitfalls and administrative headaches of a negative feedback tool - and don’t want Pinside to turn into a market site that tries to referee wide ranging expectations between members.

    It's a delicate balance, can't please all the people all the time.

    #35 2 years ago

    I'm surprised you pre-paid the entire price of the machine when it was being delivered by the seller himself -

    i have a feeling if you ever DO hear from him again, it'll be "Sorry, you shoulda checked it out closer when I dropped it off".

    I'd try reaching out to Spooky for a replacement pf - if that goes nowhere, you either have to live with it and watch it get worse or repair it yourself - eyedropper some clear in there and airbrush/water decal (or send out to a pro restorer).

    Shitty situation - the guy knew he was dumping it on you, he was probably hoping all 10 hours of that drive that you didn't see it when he dropped it off.

    18
    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from Skatewake:

    Can't tell the truth anymore ..... All rainbows and unicorns people....... get with the times.........

    Yup. Same on YT. There’s no more dislike tally. They probably think it’s for “a more safe and welcoming user experience” but it really just allows for disinformation to look as credible as anything else.

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from Anony:

    Their lack of inspection was partly based on the description saying it was minty though.

    Everyone should learn pretty early in their pinball career that one persons definition of minty, and your definition of minty will always be totally different. Never pay for a game you have not inspected unless it is from a friend (and even then you should look at it to know what you are getting). If you don't know the person extremely well, just assume they are there to rip you off. It makes the transaction easier, and it is always nice when the game is as described. But never assume that will happen.

    As for this transaction, I'm sorry jakethesnake181 ripped you off. Because he obviously ripped you off.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    Maybe a moderator can chime in and provide an explanation.

    What site features get added/removed are @Robin's area.

    This was the explanation he offered for the change:

    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    It's possible we may have to make this a political thread to get their attention.

    Please don't.

    #39 2 years ago

    First off I completely agreed that negative feedback should be an available option should a transaction go sideways. For the most part I believe all Pinsider’s have good intentions. I have been buying, selling and dealing with all things pinball for over 25 years and have had a fair share of bad dealings. When looking back at it many could have been avoided with a little more due diligence on my behalf. Most of these dealings eventually reached a mutual agreement and worked out fine for both sides. This situation is tough because the buyer had ample opportunity to inspect the machine and given the fact that he did not is the tough part. In the end I hope the seller will step up and assist in some way. Unfortunately in this hobby it is becoming more and more buyer beware.

    #40 2 years ago

    Yikes.

    That's definitely something that should be mentioned, and "minty mint" was clearly misleading.

    I'm not aware of such issues with RZ playfields.

    Unfortunate, as it was his AMH that I bought last year and it went well.

    On a positive note, the mods there are sought after. Particularly the spine mod, as the inquiries for it have been about 3x what I produced before discontinuing them early (only about 30 spines out there [over 100 each of the mausoleum and gas set for comparison]). I've been offered double+ on some discontinued mods, but I always stick to my word once discontinued.

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from Medisinyl:

    I've been offered double+ on some discontinued mods, but I always stick to my word once discontinued.

    Call them vault editions and bring em back like stern has done with certain games due to popular demand.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Call them vault editions and bring em back like stern has done with certain games due to popular demand.

    Ha By the time I discontinue a mod, I'm glad to never make one again.

    Wish I had more time for new development, but I've been buried since Elvira (despite hiring help early this year to buy time to create the AMH set).

    #43 2 years ago

    Reading Robin's response it was just unsolicited negative feedback that was removed. Unless I'm reading what he said wrong. Can you not leave negative feedback since you've had a transaction with this person?

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from thirdedition:

    Reading Robin's response it was just unsolicited negative feedback that was removed. Unless I'm reading what he said wrong. Can you not leave negative feedback since you've had a transaction with this person?

    Even if you could leave negative feedback for a transaction, the seller is the party that specifies whether to solicit feedback or not on a given transaction.

    In this case, I’m guessing the seller won’t do that.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    Even if you could leave negative feedback for a transaction, the seller is the party that specifies whether to solicit feedback or not on a given transaction.
    In this case, I’m guessing the seller won’t do that.

    After giving it some thought I came to that conclusion as well. I'm feeling under the weather and not operating at 100%.

    #46 2 years ago

    I feel for the OP, but if the guy delivered it to your house - you had the option to inspect it there but then wait until he's gone (I'm a tournament player so I do understand). I guess the guy may think you're having buyers remorse but with a name like jakethesnake maybe you should have been more worried!

    I've always found most people on Pinside (and in pinball as a whole) to be awesome. and this really sucks for you. Personally, I would blame myself for not checking the game and take it on the chin. It's crap he hasn't responded to you though, like you say you have given him time.

    Have you reached out to Spooky to see if they have any spare PFs? Also it's not *that* bad as in the area is pretty dark, so someone with the right skill set could definitely touch that in and spot clear over it

    -1
    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from Skatewake:

    Can't tell the truth anymore
    //<![CDATA[
    window.__mirage2 = {petok:"aea742e3b3c0ed60b96efa6dc43d5fc10f20956a-1641490888-1800"};
    //]]>

    ..... All rainbows and unicorns people....... get with the times.........

    Quoted from Skatewake:

    Can't tell the truth anymore
    //<![CDATA[
    window.__mirage2 = {petok:"82ec77c3ac446103f029242e71beaf3e675eae62-1641491263-1800"};
    //]]>

    ..... All rainbows and unicorns people....... get with the times.........

    What a ridiculous take. What world do you live in?

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from Skatewake:

    Can't tell the truth anymore ..... All rainbows and unicorns people....... get with the times.........

    Imagine actually thinking this

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from theadicts77:

    What a ridiculous take. What world do you live in?

    I’m pretty sure his post was sarcasm - sometimes that doesn’t translate well in a post.

    #50 2 years ago

    Spooky's playfield durability and clearcoat is up there with the best in the world. My RZ playfield was flawless and I haven't heard of any issues with them. I call absolute bullshit on the sellers claim "i dont know what to expect on clearcoat issues with spooky, it may be common."

    I'm guessing he did something stupid to cause the damage, and he deliberately hid that when selling. Very shady.

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