(Topic ID: 250015)

Can I remove / bypass the hold relay coil on a Gott Sky Jump [FIXED]

By beerorkid

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by jrpinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

I have a 1974 Gottleib Sky Jump that a friend brought back to life since I am not familiar with EMs. It plays great, but the hold relay coil gets really hot and stinks like a burnt coil. The R hold relay is the coil / mech (not sure of the proper name for the relay / switch stack). It had a a-9742 in there, but the manual says it should be a a-9738 coil. I bought a a-9738 coil and replaced it, but it does not hold and even when I move it to working state the machine squaks bad like it is shorting out and the game does not start.

With the coil out of the mech and activated with a zip tie the game works fine with the burning coil connected, but out of the mech.

With the manual suggested coil connected, but not in the mech with it activated with the zip tie it does not start a game.

I realize that the hold relay is important for tilt and power cycle reasons, but for home use I would like to be able to bypass it if I can by just removing / bypassing the coil all together. I did remove one of the wires from a terminal thinking that would just disconnect the coil.

#2 4 years ago

Maybe the coil listed in the manual is incorrect? Id fix the issue not try and rig it.

#3 4 years ago

yea tilt is an important part of game play

#4 4 years ago

The tilt should still work. The slam tilt which shuts off the game if abused won't work if the hold relay is bypassed. Never energize a coil without a load (no plunger or armature plate). It will cause the coil to draw excessive current, and will overheat it or even blow a fuse.

#5 4 years ago

How can I keep the game working without the coil connected?

I do have another coil on the way, but I am afraid it will just burn up as well since it is 35 ohms instead of the default 10 ohms.

#6 4 years ago

I had problems with the hold relay on my pioneer buzzing loud not working right, i put in a new coil in and a new spring not a sound ,working how it should,
Raff

#7 4 years ago

Working with the guy who brought it back to life he helped me read the schematics.

There has to be a short somewhere that is over energizing that coil

So going to try and find it

The coil / relay should be energized, but something is super charging it making it burn up

#8 4 years ago

still no idea how the relay coil that should be in there does not work though

#9 4 years ago

No "short" could be "supercharging" the coil. Put a voltmeter on the coil leads and check the voltage. Check to see if the game is high-tapped. If it is, unsolder the wire from the high-tap lug on the transformer, and resolder it to the normal tap lug. This is the only way that the coil is being overdriven.

#10 4 years ago

THe volts read 28.5

What does that mean?

#11 4 years ago

I am now working to fix this instead of bypassing the coil.

Have not traced the wires back to the relay yet, but will to see if there is a short.

Still bummed the proper relay coil will not hold the armature properly though.

#12 4 years ago

The voltage is good. There should be a brass washer installed between the base of the coil (the threaded hole, and the inside of the relay bracket. The screw should also be a brass screw. Don't ever apply power to the coil if it isn't installed in the relay properly. It will overheat.

#13 4 years ago

It also helps to have a reasonably smooth surface on the armature plate where it contacts the coil.
Often, the plate gets gouged up due to constantly whacking the face of the coil when it gets pulled in. This can also cause the relay to buzz or chatter excessively when energized. If you can figure out how to carefully remove the armature plate, dress it with a file, or use emery paper to smooth the surface.

#14 4 years ago

I don't know how many switches are on that relay. On some of the older games, there's only one.
Make sure all the switch blades are properly installed in the correct slots on the plastic piece. If not, there could be too much resistance that the magnetic force of the coil can't overcome. It should be reasonably easy to manually push the relay closed. It could also be that the return spring is wrong (too strong a spring).

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from beerorkid:

I am now working to fix this instead of bypassing the coil.
Have not traced the wires back to the relay yet, but will to see if there is a short.
Still bummed the proper relay coil will not hold the armature properly though.

How about a picture?

#16 4 years ago

A-9738 (32 ohms resistance) is what is supposed to be installed for the "R" relay.

If it's not pulling in, check the slam switch in the backbox and the slam switch on the coin door.

Also, be sure the coil is mounted correctly in the relay frame as has already been suggested and that the relay switches are adjusted correctly.

#17 4 years ago

Thanks jrpinball for the tips. The brass washer and screw are where they should be. I will check to see if the blades are where they should be,

Kenlayton the new A-9738 does not hold the armature when when I push it together. The old (wrong) coil will hold it just fine so I guess it is not the slam switches.

Going to keep chugging away at this.

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#18 4 years ago

I think your coil is installed upside down. Compare it to the others in the machine.

#19 4 years ago

Yeah, in that photo the coil is definitely upside down. How on earth did he put the screw in???

#20 4 years ago

I just took the pic in a way that makes it look upside down, but I assure you it is in there properly even with the brass washer and screw

#21 4 years ago
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#22 4 years ago

I tried to make each switch be happy before and after the àrmature gets engaged and it broke e everything. So need to check schematics

#23 4 years ago

Since it is no longer working I am going to solder in the proper coil and then try and set the blades to be set right via the schematics.

will report back

#24 4 years ago

Be aware that there is a height difference between the fiber bobbin relay coils and the plastic bobbin relay coils.

The plastic bobbin relay coils are about a 1/16" taller than the fiber bobbin ones, even with the same coil part number! The taller bobbin requires you to either adjust the relay switches (pain in the ass) or file the coil "poles" down a 1/16" (then you don't need to adjust the switches).

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Be aware that there is a height difference between the fiber bobbin relay coils and the plastic bobbin relay coils.
The plastic bobbin relay coils are about a 1/16" taller than the fiber bobbin ones, even with the same coil part number! The taller bobbin requires you to either adjust the relay switches (pain in the ass) or file the coil "poles" down a 1/16" (then you don't need to adjust the switches).

Omit the brass washer when installing the nylon type of coil. It isn't needed, and this should make up the size difference without any modification.

#26 4 years ago

It lives. With the proper relay. Started up right away since I had learned from the guy who worked on it how to read schematics.

Skipping the brass washer was the key. Thanks jrpinball and Kenlayton for the tip on the washer. And thanks to all who responded on this thread helping me get to a proper fix instead of trying to cheat.

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#27 4 years ago

So you used the nylon type coil and left out the washer? If so, that's correct.
If you look at the end of the core (where the threaded hole is) you'll see that the nylon type has plastic molded over the end of the core, which effectively insulates it, thus obviating the need for the brass washer. The washer is required on the fiber type coil, because there is no such nylon insulation.

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