RichieWrench or any other plumbing/heating experts out there willing to assist. I have a gas boiler for heat and hot water.
I have a leak from my 30psi pressure relief valve. Well i'm assuming since it's connected to the tube shown. see pics. Common sense tells me its hard water worn or failing for some other reason not known to me. When I contacted a plumber, who was very nice and told me to try to free the switch up by tapping with a hammer on top due to it likely being corroded or whatever. In the midst of our conversation he said something about having to drain the entire system prior to changing the relief valve and then refilling the whole house. This baffled me as there are shutoff levers literally everywhere. Of course he doesn't know that because we were on the phone but he did say it would be very expensive. So my questions (looking at photos attached) is/are Why can't i just shut off the levers and change these out. Is there some danger associated with not draining the system? Or will this introduce some unstoppable air in system and therefore render it useless until it is bled entirely?
It just seems I can just shut off the valves pictured and go to town and then turn them back on.
Please educate me.
My goal is wanting to change the expansion tank and the relief valve. The parts are under $73 shipped from supplyhouse vs I'm guessing $1000 from a plumber. He said very expensive and I live in the Boston area so everything is basically $1000 to start.
Thanks.
r/
Mike

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Thank you all for your responses so far. PinballAir thank you for the explanation but I don't comprehend any of the tech language you're speaking. I understand pressure but don't follow all the technical words... loop, fast fill etc... so I don't know how to check what you're talking about. Sorry I'm ignorant on all but the very recognizable (to me) basics of the system. I've never heard those words before.
The pressure never goes up really at all. I've turned the hot water on and sat there and watched it and the only thing that really rises is the temperature. Top needle floats in the 10-12 range, temp goes to around 120. I'm sure the pressure is coming from somewhere which leads me to GRUMPY 's response. I am onboard and understand everything he said as it is familiar to me. I'm eyeballing that damn expansion tank from the onset. It's snug to the plywood and when I've tapped on it I feel the water on top as a thud but below it's not exactly tinny sounding like it's hollow but not the same thud as on top. No water from the schrader valve below, just a quick piss of air. I did put my tire gauge on it after closing the valve on top and got 13. I know you're supposed to relieve pressure from the system so I figured it would be a higher reading but it literally read the precharge setting. Even if I closed the valve wouldn't there have been residual pressure? Since the expansion tank is pretty straight forward, I feel like throwing one at it to see if I get lucky.
r/
Mike

Copy All. Wilco.
I will wait until spring as long as it doesn't increase.
Thank you.
r/
Mike

One last question circling back. When I do go to change the relief valve in spring can I just shut levers that feed water and swap it out or is there some need to drain the entire system. Thats what stopped me cold a few days ago when the plumber said that on the phone. I have no doubt I can change valves and all that mechanical stuff, it's the operational I don't want to cause a problem if it's not as simple as shutting off valves.
Thanks again.
r/
Mike

PinballAir I'm in Boston. I don't know why it isn't showing location. Thank you all again for the good advice and the help.
I will wait until spring as advised unless something happens sooner and can't avoid.

I'll be changing both expansion tank and relief valve. We may be moving again soon and I don't want the next owner to have to worry.

This is my order. My intention is to thread the 3/4-3.5" Brass to the new relief valve then 90* FIP elbow off that. Attach 3/4-4" Brass off that to the sharkbite 90* fnpt. I'll use the existing 2 foot pipe to push in to the sharkbite after I cut and smooth the pipe end. The initial 90* will get it away from the autofill pipe the current pipe is almost in contact with. The fitting in to the relief valve is actually loose right now so the whole assembly moves back and forth.
That sharkbite is some cool stuff. I'm a huge fan of all this type of work. The whole process of welding, plumbing, pipework, fittings, stonework, brickwork, and all types of masonry and concrete work fascinates the hell out of me. I really appreciate the talent it takes to perform and master these professions.
Thanks again for the help.
r/
Mike

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Unfortunately, I do not possess the requisite knowledge or the tools to perform this function.

Shout out to supplyhouse and UPS. Ordered at 1100 on the 9th. 30 hours later it was on my back porch. This transaction is Bella approved.
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Update 2.0.

I'm trying to get a professional out here as I type this but wanted to update and possibly get smarter (via you all) so I can at least understand what the technician is explaining and or doing when they get here.
Today I noticed the heat wasn't keeping the house consistent.
I changed the expansion tank last week because it was pretty straight forward and the leak seemed to subside after a day or 2. Now if I screwed something up by changing this tank then so be it but the valve was right on top of it so it looked simple enough and went smoothly.
I made a change to the temps in the house where I keep it a consistent 67-68 at all times for now so there isn't a harder demand at any one time. It was going from 63 at night to 70 and back and forth at different times of day etc.... Once I changed the temps it hasn't dripped at all.
However, comma....
Like I said, today I noticed around 1430 that the thermostat said 66 and I have it set at 68. I went downstairs and the error codes were blinking (rinnai e75cp) so I reset it. I did see error code 02 and 04 at different times and once each. I ran the hot tap and received no hot water because the boiler wouldn't stay fired and the water would not heat up at all. Like I said, I reset it, it tried to go but did not. I held the reset button and started the de-aeration program mostly by mistake so I had to wait 17 minutes before I could do anything again. Once it was over it was flashing an error code again and I forgot to actually look at it. I hit the reset and it actually fired up and slowly for the last hour and a half it's been heating up and the heat is working and the hot water is functioning. I know it isn't fixed so I've reached out and am trying to get someone here.
When I went downstairs I recorded this.20210223_174425 (Medium) (resized).jpg20210223_174418 (Medium) (resized).jpg20210223_174326 (Medium) (resized).jpg
Now the other day when I switched to the tech screen for manual readouts, and prior to even changing the exp tank, I saw the temp go well above 166 but the pressure wasn't above the 26 threshold. But not the mechanical gauge. That has always remained pretty steady and never gone above 140 or 13 pounds. This has me a little nervous. But I look at the manual gauge and you see the picture. These are very different readings and I have no clue what's going on at this point. Airlock? Heat Exchanger blockage maybe?? Anyone got anything that can help me understand this and most of all feel a little less panicked until I can get a technician out here. I can't just call anyone because I don't really trust some of the skill sets around here but I have a professional painter I trust who has friends in his community that have the requisite knowledge and training so I'm waiting patiently to see if one of the professionals in the next town can make some room in their schedule. I'll take anything anyone has in the meantime for answers.
If I'm coming across as a little nervous it's because I am. Rest assured I'll be educating myself on all things heating/plumbing systems after this is over. It doesn't sit well with me when I can't figure something out to at least the point of a general understanding.
r/
Mike

Definitely please forgive my ignorance. I have tremendous respect for both and do not want to offend anyone. I'm simply ignorant in that world. I have a tentative for Thursday morning. My professional painter will be here because of course I'm having work done in the midst of a possible heating malfunction(murphy's law) and he's gonna connect me to him so I can explain everything I'm seeing before he comes out here. I'll find out if he has the training and I'm confident if not he'll point me in the right direction.
Thank you.
r/Mike

Thanks for the responses. 1400 sf. 3 story. plumbing and heating to 2 of the floors. 7 main radiators in the house, 1 smaller radiator in each bathroom. 1 shower far away so I understand the flow issue and lack of hot water for a while. But this is something different. I have a dive sink in the basement 7 feet away. no hot water when it was malfunctioning and the demand wouldn't even get the heater to work basically. Its when I cranked the heat to 70 in here that the system started slowly functioning again. It must've stayed at 90 forever until it started to climb. It was 40 today outside so it wasn't the cold that was the issue today.
I'm not changing the valve. I don't feel confident that I can properly service the system after the valve change and am almost certain at this point I'd make things worse. The idea for the valve change was I was going to wait til spring when I didn't need heat so I could mess with it. It started leaking a little more each day so I figured I had the expansion tank and was gonna install a new one anyway with the valve at some point so I thought maybe I'd get lucky. Well, I kind of did, until I didn't. All it did was expose a bigger problem that I want a professional to look at and diagnose at this point. I was just hoping to gain a little more education so I can at least speak intelligently to the technician and it will also help me with comprehension when he's trying to explain it to me.
The fact the electronic readout says the pressure is at 35 when I've never seen it that high tells me something is restricting something somewhere or malfunctioning. Maybe it's electronics and temp sensors. I don't know. This system is 6 years old and have a hard time believing its busted. We had it serviced prior to moving in 2 years ago. I don't know what was performed because we were still in Northern Virginia. Something tells me its never been flushed or cleaned. Water is hard here. That's my fault. Taking crap for granted like usual. Once again ignorance thinking this was basically maintenance free.
Seems I like to continuously learn hard lessons throughout my life.

You lost me on that one. Who is texting me at 3am?
I'm definitely not texting anyone.
I'm a light sleeper though and have 0 friends so I'm good with it.

Ohhhh. #12 Richie. I get it now. He texts his distributor at like 3am I think I remember reading. I'm slow these days.
He seems like a nice guy so no problem there. He's a Mopar guy so I know I'd get along with him.

The only valve I closed was the valve directly on top of the expansion tank. Basically there was no call for heat and no water being used in the house so I shut the valve and unscrewed the tank and replaced it. After I replaced it I turned the valve back on and waited. No leaks so I fired it up and let it build up pressure. No leaks at pressure. The next morning there was half the amount of water in the bucket. I adjusted the house temps to remain constant across 24 hours and it didn't leak a drop for 2 days straight. Everything seemed normal.
The manual isn't very helpful except for codes and what not. It doesn't spell out literally to turn this or shut that or do this. They make the assumption the operator knows what they are doing at some level.
I'm out of my depth and will pay for the remaining hands on training I'm about to receive. Looks like Thursday.
I'm just hoping to get a little smarter from you guys before he gets here. I want to make sure I have this to fall back on so I don't forget anything I've seen or done. He needs to know everything that's been going on so he can make the best troubleshooting choice.
Even if it's a simple fix like topping off or adjusting pressure or bleeding system, I don't even know where to do that. I have to see things done at least once before I can retain it. Reading something does me know good majority of the time unfortunately.
r/
Mike

I found these on the internet actually.
I'm pretty sure I saw E02 first but I definitely saw E04. E02 makes some sense to me if I did see it.
I went and checked and had gas flow to the system after reading this. Gas wasn't the issue.
Error code: E02
1. No temperature difference between supply (3) and return (4)
2. There is a temperature difference between supply (3) and return (4)
Solution for error code E02
Check the data in Error mode. Boiler data during error.
1 error = 02
2 operational status = 02
3 supply temp. = xx*
4 return temp. = xx*
5 kW burner = xx**
6 % pump = xx*
* = variable value
**= x 3451 = BTU/hr
1.Boiler has not been able to ignite any gas or has not received any gas. Boilertries to start 6 times with an increasing starting load after the safety time.
Check whether:
- the gas valve is open;
- there is power to the gas valve;
- that the gas valve opens
The minimum gas pre-pressure during the start must be a minimum of 7"W.C.(17 mbar), check the 24 Volts in the gas during ignition block’s open position.
2. Boiler has gone out after ignition. Due to insuf? cient ionization the burner has gone out after ignition.
Ionization ?ow, ionization cable or the O2 setting. The minimum ionization current should be 4 μA, the O2 should be a minimum of 4.4% for NG or 4.8% for LP

E04 looks to be like a 3 and clear code on your car. (maybe 02 caused 04)

Error code: E04
Cause of error code E04
The controller has detected a program error

Solution for error code E04
Reset the boiler. the boiler automatically indicates this message if during an error read-out the electrical power to the boiler is shut off. After the power has once again switched on, if the error causing the interference is no longer present, this message is given.

Rectify the preceding error, If Error 04 persists, and preceding errors do not occur, replace controller.

Will update for sure Thursday. I'll make sure I get it all out there even if I have to write it all out.
Thank you.
r/
Mike

It is definitely doing it's job. Loop pressure is most definitely exceeding 30 at the top of the heat demand. It relieves itself once the heat shuts off. Not as much as it was leaking though. I was able to get a professional to come tomorrow. I'll update with findings and hopefully get some closure on this tomorrow.
Hopefully nothing is blocked but that no firing issue and error codes yesterday was a little nerve wracking. I'm still hoping something big hasn't failed as well but I'm probably dreaming.
r/
Mike

Sorry didn't mean to ghost. My phone broke and there's more than a few challenges going on at the house right now.
He said expansion tank was a good job and fine.
Changed the filler valve and the 30 psi valve.
We bled the system and all the radiators.
Ended up bumping the fill too much and it weeped first night. I dumped some water and it seems to be holding now.
He said it may be the DHW leaking in to the heating plate itself in the actual boiler if it keeps up.
He is not a fan of gas boilers as I've seen a pattern here emerging. I'll take oil any day over this mess.
The life span on these isn't like i would've thought.

More later I'm late for something.
r/
Mike

ok, back at the house.
When we were bleeding actual radiators (there are 9 in the house) One of the 2nd floor radiators wouldn't give a steady stream and would just drip so he went downstairs and bumped the fill pressure up. The drip never really got any better but thinking it may be one of the many coats of paint maybe on the radiator bleed outlet itself? That radiator has always worked very well so can't imagine there's air left in there. Or maybe it's some blockage up at the top of the bleeder valve. Don't know but I'm not chasing that because it works fine.
Anyway we didn't really go back to discuss the bumped fill pressure and he had left long before the actual demand exceeded the 30 psi.
When it leaked and after the heat wasn't called for any more, I just opened the 30 psi valve and quickly relieved the pressure/water from 33 to like 28 and stopped. Now whether that is all that is needed to actually adjust the pressure on a permanent basis I have zero clue and guessing it isn't the correct way.
But over the last 2 days it has worked well and the system remains working without any water in the pan underneath. More likely the system corrected itself and not so much something I did. The other thing is I keep it pretty consistent at 67-69 so there's no super hard demand excessive heat possibly keeping the pressure in check.
It will drive me nuts until the end of time unfortunately because my brain will not allow me to let it go.
He was an oil guy and does not troubleshoot gas boilers beyond plumbing systems up to the box itself.
I was aware of this prior to him arriving but wanted the basics done to eliminate the easy stuff. The 30 psi valve was on the outs and corroded so at least we made one correct call.
r/
Mike

Yes, he said he always changes that as part of his service/troubleshooting.
That is what I meant when referring to the filler valve.
I wasn't familiar with the lingo on post 3 so the verbiage was all lost on me then. I understand a tiny bit more after Thursday. But not much more.
System could still have problems but the next call is to a boiler tech and/or replace the whole effin thing. Both may be synonymous.

Is this something I can do? It kicked off again this morning somewhere between 0900 and 1130. Took forever to fire back up and now its just stuck on 100 and trying to climb. Maybe I can get it working but this is gonna be a pattern every few days and will only get worse I'm sure. If I can clean the ignitor and flame sensor, I'm willing to do so but I need visuals if someone knows where to find them. If not I'll try and find an available boiler tech. I'd rather do easy stuff myself though if at all possible.

So the problem is definitely in the box at this point.

r/
Mike

My phone is broken so I can't take any photos at the moment. Hopefully fixed on Friday when the digitizer and lcd screen gets here.
I pulled the cover and the thing looks like its off the showroom floor. I know that means nothing but it looks like its brand new. Anyway, I think I see the ignitor and flame sensor package on the left but theres a big red george foreman grill looking thing blocking easy access.
It's winter and I can't afford to have zero heat. I can't let my dogs freeze. I need to make the sensible decision here and pay for the education.
I found this guy on youtube named Mike the Rinnai guy. His videos are extensive. I emailed him to ask if he knows a common problem with my model E75CN (discontinued, of course) so I don't get raked when I call a tech and 2 if he has a contact in the east boston area that he can recommend.
I'll throw that out here as well. I see PinballAir is here in Boston and seems like he may be in the business or at least have knowledge. Anyone you know or can recommend on the east end of boston that you would trust to do work. Addarios is not an option.
Thanks
r/
Mike

update to close this out. it's a long story but 2 different hvac companies wanted to sell me a boiler I refused to believe was bad.
during the service call I finally was able to get, the technicians verified the igniter needed replaced. he scrapes it, adjust gap and got it working while he went to order a new one. while it was firing up the other tech saw a small drip pattern at the very top of the heat exchanger and they decided immediately i needed a boiler and sent a salesman out the same day. I said it's the gasket, I can see it. They said nope its best to change the boiler cause it's probably bad. I got the same answer after explaining it to another hvac service.
My background doesn't accept these kind of answers. I could see the gasket allowing the leak and looked it up in the manual and found it to be part of a 4000 hr kit. The literal gasket is in the service kit as part of 3 gaskets and an igniter package.
Fast forward, salesman wants to sell me a boiler and push/pull install for $7900! So basically Mass kicks back a rebate for 2400 to a customer nowadays. Final price $5500.
It doesn't take a math wiz to realize they are ripping people off to the tune of about, well, at least $2400 for a swap. Coincidence?
I decline and continue to troubleshoot. I'm not buying a g*****m boiler to replace one that functions perfectly but has a small leak out of a gasket that I can visibly see.
Old Igniter goes bad after a week again because I still don't have a new igniter. I pulled it myself this time and scotchbrite and gap, put it back in and works again perfectly.
I finally stumble on HomeWorks Energy in Medford and they agree to my troubleshooting method and send a tech to verify a 4000 service is warranted and nothing else seems wrong etc....
Said it will cost $89 for the visit. No sweat, I'm prepared to lay it all out and not take anything less than someone agreeing to change that f***** gasket to prove me wrong. She says they'll have to order kit though so I'm thinking this is initial visit of at least 2.
They came in and I explained everything and the tech goes, no problem, I picked up the 4000 hour kit on the way in to work this morning.
I act like I just won the lottery when he tells me this.
Visit went great. He pulls off the top of the heat exchanger and I can see its a combustion chamber and there's no water in there at all. He says ya, its condensation that was dripping cause there's no water up there. He shows me the cracks in the gasket. BOOM!
2 hours later cause we're shooting the sh** about everything, the boiler works like it's brand new again. He agrees the Celtics should fire Brad Stevens, Samsung are the best phones and tv's, he eats too much cheese. We both hate the taste of water.
Bottom line. 1. HomeWorks Energy are actual technicians that actually aren't afraid to fix things/properly troubleshoot instead of replace. I plastered their name all over the heater so the next homeowner knows who to call. Great, honest company. Oh yeah, we are moving to Pittsburgh next month by the way.
2. Always get a second opinion.
3. Have your hvac systems serviced at least once every 18 months.
4. Call HomeWorks Energy if you live in Mass.

Thanks to all here who tried to assist me and got me going in the right direction. It still needed that 30 psi valve as that was a different issue all together.
So every post that was made by you all mattered in some way or another and is appreciated.
end.

Mike