(Topic ID: 253208)

California power companies shut off power for thousands.


By cottonm4

6 months ago



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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by pinwiztom
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    #201 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I don't have any but solar panels are popping up all over the place. On days like today there is plenty of sunshine to run them. Year round there is plenty. My electric bill is so low I don't need them. I can do without power for some time if need be.
    In the fire areas a backup generator is all that is really needed or a wind driven generator in these conditions makes pretty good sense.

    The only reason it makes economic sense to buy solar is if you run your AC or have a pool you heat (electric pumps). The technology and cost isn't quite there yet to justify owning based on the payback scale. Especially considering how much people move. I'm an analyst, trust me, I've done the math. With that said, I bought solar because we use our AC. My electric bill for the year was about $400. My payback was about 5 years and factoring about 50 cents on the dollar return on investment when I sell the house as a feature....and I got a hell of a deal and subsidy on mine.

    #202 6 months ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    Pretty much this. We are trying to fight a natural occurrence. I'm not saying the fight isn't worth it, but fires are natural for the habitat here. I remember taking a tour in the redwoods and the guide mentioned they didn't understand how the seeds wouldn't drop from the trees. They learned that fire causes the seeds to drop so they scorch the bottom of the trees (something like that).
    One has to remember how vast and large CA is. So various areas have various natural issues (flooding, mud slides, fires, earthquakes, temperature). You could honestly break this state up into multiple states it is so large (I wish they would but will never happen for political reasons).
    I'm from WI, and although I don't agree with the politics out here, it would be hard to move back because I would rather deal with all those other natural issues than winter. Again, I'm in San Diego, which is THE best climate mainland (if you prefer 65-75 degrees and sunny year round). I live by the coast. Moving inland 15 miles will change that climate by 15 degrees in either direction. If I had to live anywhere else in CA I would move. It wouldn't be worth it. I firmly believe if it wasn't for the weather no one would live here. You pay the sunshine tax for a reason. No one would pay what they pay out here to live in the Midwest. This is a large reason why people of all political leanings tolerate what they do out here. It's basically the laffer curve theory. The government squeezes you just to the point of revolt (moving). They never say it, but that has been monarch/government philosophy since the beginning of time.

    In 1994, I went on a road trip and ended up going to Yosemite. I remember driving through one forest where the government boys were doing controlled burn of the forest floor. It was strange to see what essentially a grass fire burning between and around the bases of the trees.

    #203 6 months ago

    I hope all fellow pinsiders are doing well. I cant imagine the issues with having power out for that long...and doubling the problems when people's jobs have to shut down.

    I hope everyone is okay.

    #204 6 months ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    The only reason it makes economic sense to buy solar is if you run your AC or have a pool you heat (electric pumps). The technology and cost isn't quite there yet to justify owning based on the payback scale. Especially considering how much people move. I'm an analyst, trust me, I've done the math. With that said, I bought solar because we use our AC. My electric bill for the year was about $400. My payback was about 5 years and factoring about 50 cents on the dollar return on investment when I sell the house as a feature....and I got a hell of a deal and subsidy on mine.

    There are subsidies to go solar, but yeah, with my $20-$30 a month electric bill it makes no sense.

    Not that fire is not possible, but I live in an older, established neighborhood, not near much wide open brush.

    A generator is making sense though because when the next big earthquake hits, we could be without power indefinitely depending on how much damage happens.

    #205 6 months ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    The only reason it makes economic sense to buy solar is if you run your AC or have a pool you heat (electric pumps). The technology and cost isn't quite there yet to justify owning based on the payback scale. Especially considering how much people move. I'm an analyst, trust me, I've done the math. With that said, I bought solar because we use our AC. My electric bill for the year was about $400. My payback was about 5 years and factoring about 50 cents on the dollar return on investment when I sell the house as a feature....and I got a hell of a deal and subsidy on mine.

    Your electric bill was $33. per month? This must be after you installed solar. What was it prior to that?

    #206 6 months ago

    It's pretty funny watching a guy with a leafblower across the street with the winds blowing so hard. I will say, they are persistent.

    #207 6 months ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    No. In a power outage the ice melts. Quarter drops to the bottom. If power is restored the ice refreezes with the quarter at the bottom of the cup. Good indicator you have lost power for a long enough period that your food has thawed.

    Right. The temperature rose to allow the thawing.

    #208 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    So, how are you living? Do you have a generator in the back yard? Solar panels on your roof? Let us see some pictures of your abode and show us how it is done. If is is simple to generate for ourselves then surely you can show us how you are making your own electricity, yes?
    I'm all for anything that will save me money and make me self-reliant. I'll listen intently to any suggestions you would be willing to provide and pictures, as you know, are worth thousands of words. I check Pinside regularly.

    I, myself, have a gas generator in the garage if needed. Not a permanent solution. I was honestly hoping those freaking solar shingles would be out soon as I will need a roof in the next couple years.

    My inlaws however, who are very close, have a natural gas generator, well system with reverse osmosis, and a septic that gets filtered and dumped into their pond. That is my plan when the shit goes bad. Go to their house.

    I would love a NG generator, I may get one some day. I would rather get a solar roof and have a shed in the back with a battery array when I can store power.

    I really liked this idea for storing energy, although unrelated to what california is going through at this moment. Check it out.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11524958/energy-storage-rail

    #209 6 months ago
    Quoted from girloveswaffles:

    Right. The temperature rose to allow the thawing.

    I see. It all depends on what the definition of "it" is. Quarter drops but temp rises.

    #210 6 months ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    I, myself, have a gas generator in the garage if needed. Not a permanent solution. I was honestly hoping those freaking solar shingles would be out soon as I will need a roof in the next couple years.
    My inlaws however, who are very close, have a natural gas generator, well system with reverse osmosis, and a septic that gets filtered and dumped into their pond. That is my plan when the shit goes bad. Go to their house.
    I would love a NG generator, I may get one some day. I would rather get a solar roof and have a shed in the back with a battery array when I can store power.
    I really liked this idea for storing energy, although unrelated to what california is going through at this moment. Check it out.
    https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11524958/energy-storage-rail

    Natural gas or propane is not actually generating power yourself. In the event of an earthquake or perhaps flooding, fire or hurricane you may lose natural gas and propane can be hard to come by in a natural disaster. Was hoping that you were going to share with us how to actually generate power.

    I have a NG generator with auto transfer switch that hasn't been needed in 10 plus years but if you have ever gone several weeks without power, as I have, you will gladly pay the price for the peace of mind. AC is a beautiful thing and lights arejn't bad either.

    #211 6 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    There’s nothing progressive about the power situation. Enron lobbied for deregulation and privatization. PG&E tried to give it’s execs millions in bonuses after they went bankrupt. They squandered their emergency money on bonuses. The kleptocrat Rapeublicons always fill their pockets and leave the people to suffer.

    Wow dude,your state is run by Democrats.Why don't you just blame this on Trump?

    #212 6 months ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Wow dude,your state is run by Democrats.Why don't you just blame this on Trump?

    Who says it's his state? He certainly doesn't seem like he's from here.

    #213 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Who says it's his state? He certainly doesn't seem like he's from here.

    It says on his avatar he's from Tent City Ca.

    #214 6 months ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    It says on his avatar he's from Tent City Ca.

    Ca. has lots of hot air these days. Some blows in from out of state.

    #215 6 months ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    Free!?!?!???? Please do tell. I bought solar and after rebate it came to about $8k and I knew the owner of the company. I got it cheaper than anyone I know. This is utter bs. You can't even get it free on a lease and they keep your overage. My buddy installing now. Please tell were these free gibs for the masses are.
    Oh, and pertaining to your tax comment.
    [quoted image]

    Yup you lease them, we went with Sunrun around 8 years or so ago. 0$ down, all maintenance covered free for the entire lease, guaranteed electric monthly production, roof leak warranty and your electric bill instantly goes down saving you money on day one. Combine that with an electric car and between the gas and electric bill the savings are *huge*. Because they handle all maintenance free forever they are truly worry free, unlike if you buy them. We don't get overage because we use a lot of electric (two electric cars, I work from home so a/c runs all day, lots of tech gear, etc), but we went from our last big bill being around $620 in one month back 8 years ago to around a peak max of $320 today. The panels alone literally have saved us many thousands of dollars, and gas savings has been in the thousands as well.

    If you have electric over production then get a Tesla powerwall, that will save your overage and also power your home if the power goes out, it costs about the price of a pin but you get a tax credit for it. Side bonus, they are a local company and I always try and support local. There's lots of California incentives like this, we take advantage of all of them, has saved us a small fortune.

    Seriously, look into all this! That's what I mean when I say ignore what other people say and do your own research as to what your location offers. So while others just keep repeating "California bad" we in turn are both very much data and numbers people so we look at what's available, crunch some numbers and sign up if it saves us money.

    EDIT: Forgot to comment on taxes, here's a link for you: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/taxes/T006-S001-10-least-tax-friendly-states-in-the-u-s-2019/index.html

    Quoted from o-din:

    One clown said if there's a fire just drive away.
    Tell that to these guys.[quoted image]

    Wow you love to attack me and be obtuse in the process. Do you just like drama or what? They are there in that picture because, get this, they are fire fighters and that is their job, just like policemen get near the bad guys. My "walk away" comment is unbelievably simple to understand, I'm assuming you actually do get it but are being purposely silly just because you seem to love to attack me. But I'll spell it out for you. A fire starts what do you do? Do you sit there and get burned, or do you leave your home and drive away? That's what I mean, it's a natural disaster that is easy to avoid. Counter that to tornado's which can strike randomly anywhere even over your head. Have you ever been in one? I have. There is no escape for those unless you are lucky to be in a concrete garage, which is where we were when some struck when we lived in Texas. Get it now? Likewise if you look at the data just living in winter is more dangerous as all natural disasters. Been there and done that too.

    To the fires, yeah they suck but understand the media is in the business of making everything look as bad as possible. There's a fire burning right now near our house some miles away but if you go outside you'd never know it. However if you watch it on tv they make it look like the apocalypse because that keeps people watching and keeps ad revenue flowing. It's no different when we lived in Seattle years ago and they had a 7.8 earthquake. We'd go outside and you'd never know anything happened, but on tv they successfully made it look like armageddon. I can't tell you how many times I've had family and friends call from back in Canada asking if we are ok because tv made stuff look so bad, only for me to tell them that we didn't even notice.

    There is tons of wilderness here which is just vulnerable to being burned so yeah if you build your house in the middle of wilderness it will have a chance of being burned. For most people this isn't the case, you may get smoke sometimes but even that is relatively rare. We've had to deal with smoke maybe 3 times in 14 years that we've been here.

    #216 6 months ago

    I don't attack people, I just call it like I see it or hear it. Easy for those stuck in the fire zones to just drive away as well, when the roads are packed or closed. And then figure out where to go.

    I'm out. Too much drama here. I'm not one to try to match wits in a conversation no one is going to win.

    Hope the fire stays away from your estate.

    #217 6 months ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Your electric bill was $33. per month? This must be after you installed solar. What was it prior to that?

    Yes, AFTER solar.

    Keep in mind, we aren't necessarily comparing apples to apples pertaining to usage before and after solar. We limited our AC usage prior because we were footing the bill. During summer months your bill can get up to $400.

    I don't have my exact calcs so going off of memory.

    Prior usage: $2400 a year let's say factoring in summer months with limited AC

    Current: $400 annual with heavier AC usage

    Savings: $2K per year. My cost of solar after subsidies and heavy bro discount was about $8K. Figure it adds some value to the house when we sell but hard to quantify. At 50 cents on the dollar payback roughly two years. No brainer. Sorry, my figure above was off. However, no subsidy (I think tax write of ends this year?) and paying full freight you are looking about anywhere from $15-25K. Now consider some of the companies mark up during times of tax rebates. So let's say you get a unit owned for $15K. That's a seven year break-even if you don't plan on selling the house. I think eventually the technology will be better and the cost cheaper as with most things.

    #218 6 months ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    I was honestly hoping those freaking solar shingles would be out soon as I will need a roof in the next couple years.

    I talked to the Tesla folks about this and for my house they were going to be close to 94K. That was enough of a turnoff for me. Plus, the shingles were not hurricane rated and had not been tested for a saltwater environment. One day I think we will get there but these costs are extreme for now.

    #219 6 months ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    close to 94K. That was enough of a turnoff for me. Plus, the shingles were not hurricane rated and had not been tested for a saltwater environment.

    #220 6 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Yup you lease them, we went with Sunrun around 8 years or so ago. 0$ down, 0$ charge, all maintenance covered free for the entire lease, guaranteed electric monthly production and your electric bill instantly goes down saving you money on day one. Combine that with an electric car and between the gas and electric bill the savings are *huge*. Because they handle all maintenance free forever they are truly worry free, unlike if you buy them. We don't get overage because we use a lot of electric (two electric cars, I work from home so a/c runs all day, lots of tech gear, etc), but we went from our last big bill being around $620 in one month back 8 years ago to around a peak max of $320 today. The panels alone literally have saved us many thousands of dollars, and gas savings has been in the thousands as well.
    If you have electric over production then get a Tesla powerwall, that will save your overage and also power your home if the power goes out, it costs about the price of a pin but you get a tax credit for it. Side bonus, they are a local company and I always try and support local. There's lots of California incentives like this, we take advantage of all of them, has saved us a small fortune.
    Seriously, look into all this! That's what I mean when I say ignore what other people say and do your own research as to what your location offers. So while others just keep repeating "California bad" we in turn are both very much data and numbers people so we look at what's available, crunch some numbers and sign up if it saves us money.
    EDIT: Forgot to comment on taxes, here's a link for you: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/taxes/T006-S001-10-least-tax-friendly-states-in-the-u-s-2019/index.html

    Wow you love to attack me and be obtuse in the process. Do you just like drama or what? They are there in that picture because, get this, they are fire fighters and that is their job, just like policemen get near the bad guys. My "walk away" comment is unbelievably simple to understand, I'm assuming you actually do get it but are being purposely silly just because you seem to love to attack me. But I'll spell it out for you. A fire starts what do you do? Do you sit there and get burned, or do you leave your home and drive away? That's what I mean, it's a natural disaster that is easy to avoid. Counter that to tornado's which can strike randomly anywhere even over your head. Have you ever been in one? I have. There is no escape for those unless you are lucky to be in a concrete garage, which is where we were when some struck when we lived in Texas. Get it now? Likewise if you look at the data just living in winter is more dangerous as all natural disasters. Been there and done that too.
    To the fires, yeah they suck but understand the media is in the business of making everything look as bad as possible. There's a fire burning right now near our house some miles away but if you go outside you'd never know it. However if you watch it on tv they make it look like the apocalypse because that keeps people watching and keeps ad revenue flowing. It's no different when we lived in Seattle years ago and they had a 7.8 earthquake. We'd go outside and you'd never know anything happened, but on tv they successfully made it look like armageddon. I can't tell you how many times I've had family and friends call from back in Canada asking if we are ok because tv made stuff look so bad, only for me to tell them that we didn't even notice.
    There is tons of wilderness here which is just vulnerable to being burned so yeah if you build your house in the middle of wilderness it will have a chance of being burned. For most people this isn't the case, you may get smoke sometimes but even that is relatively rare. We've had to deal with smoke maybe 3 times in 14 years that we've been here.

    8 years ago is not today. You are not going to get these deals today and if they advertise as such it is a lie with hidden costs. The reason it was free before was because they could sell the overages, you don't own equipment, they do. They sell the overages back to the power companies. Since you installed many more people have installed solar. The overage payback price is next to nothing now. I don't even sell mine back because it is basically worthless. It is better to bank it in case you have overages in the upcoming year. You statement, although true a decade ago, isn't even remotely close to accurate in the current market.

    As for, just drive away. You are failing to realize how fast fires move. A majority of these fires happen in communities on the outskirts that have limited access, like O-din mentioned. There is a reason why the city tells you to have shit ready to move. Basically your family pictures, and anything you can fit in a trunk. Upon evacuation those two lane roads in and out clog fast. They are bottle necks. The fires spread so fast out here last year that the horses were being burned alive even after being released from their stables. They honestly almost move as fast as a tornado in some instances. The fires in Thousand Oaks aren't as bad. My in-laws lived there.

    I will agree with you that the media loves to sensationalize everything. Politics, natural disasters, civil unrest. They are in the business of entertaining now....sad to say.

    #221 6 months ago
    Quoted from Djshakes:

    8 years ago is not today. You are not going to get these deals today and if they advertise as such it is a lie with hidden costs. The reason it was free before was because they could sell the overages, you don't own equipment, they do. They sell the overages back to the power companies. Since you installed many more people have installed solar. The overage payback price is next to nothing now. I don't even sell mine back because it is basically worthless. It is better to bank it in case you have overages in the upcoming year. You statement, although true a decade ago, isn't even remotely close to accurate in the current market.

    They actually still do offer it: https://www.sunrun.com/solar-lease . We even negotiated with them at the time to where if we decide to replace our roof within 10 years they would re-install the system for free, got that in writing although admittedly I don't know if they would do that today. As for overage, just setup your electric account as net metering (NEM). It's not automatic, that's something you have to do. I don't know about other states but in California that works like this:

    "Under NEM, the customer's electric meter keeps track of how much electricity is consumed by the customer, and how much excess electricity is generated by the system and sent back into the electric utility grid. Over a 12-month period, the customer has to pay only for the net amount of electricity used from the utility over-and-above the amount of electricity generated by their solar system"

    If your state doesn't offer that then go for a Tesla Powerwall to bank the overage. NEM is kinda the reason some people say it's not worth getting a Tesla Powerwall in California because you get full credit for your overage if you are setup as NEM. We don't have one for that reason although I've considered getting one just because it would be cool to have backup power just in case.

    Quoted from Djshakes:

    As for, just drive away. You are failing to realize how fast fires move. A majority of these fires happen in communities on the outskirts that have limited access, like O-din mentioned. There is a reason why the city tells you to have shit ready to move. Basically your family pictures, and anything you can fit in a trunk. Upon evacuation those two lane roads in and out clog fast. They are bottle necks. The fires spread so fast out here last year that the horses were being burned alive even after being released from their stables. They honestly almost move as fast as a tornado in some instances. The fires in Thousand Oaks aren't as bad. My in-laws lived there.
    I will agree with you that the media loves to sensationalize everything. Politics, natural disasters, civil unrest. They are in the business of entertaining now....sad to say.

    Sure if you live in more outskirt areas you have to be ready to move because there is so much fire fuel out there, I even mentioned that but that doesn't really apply to most people. It's like those that live in the hills of Malibu, they realize their is risk but they do it anyways, but for most people it's a non issue because we live on typical blocks. You do have to heed evacuation notices though and not wait until the last minute. We actually do have first hand experience on how fast a fire moves during the Woolsey fire, got right up close and personal, but that was due to our own stupidity lol.

    Quoted from DBLM:

    I talked to the Tesla folks about this and for my house they were going to be close to 94K. That was enough of a turnoff for me. Plus, the shingles were not hurricane rated and had not been tested for a saltwater environment. One day I think we will get there but these costs are extreme for now.

    Everything I've read about those solar tiles seem to indicate them being both extremely difficult to get a hold of, and just not worth it. They sure look cool though.

    #222 6 months ago

    So now we have several major freeway closures including I-5, 405, 210, and 14.

    Not a good situation at all for those with a long daily commute or anybody else in that area. Just glad I'm not one of them.

    Stay as safe as you can people.

    #223 6 months ago

    Gas jumps over 5$ a gallon in LA

    #224 6 months ago
    Quoted from adol75:

    Good ! Water should never be too cheap, it's a precious resource.

    Yes, so that explains why you diverte millions of gallons of water from farmland use for a fish that was dying off anyway. Good thinking lol. https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-smelt-environment-20180105-story.html

    #225 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    So now we have several major freeway closures including I-5, 405, 210, and 14.

    Dear Lord!
    The hits just keep on coming.

    Quoted from chad:

    Gas jumps over 5$ a gallon in LA

    Price gouging laws? I know we have them here and they are enforced when hurricanes or tropical storms hit.

    o-din , my place may be small but I would make room if you ever had to get out! Should you be willing to come to TEXAS that is.

    #226 6 months ago

    I have the answer... Off The Grid Solar! Just build your own power system. I did and have done for many others for years. I have a home in an Off the Grid Community. I own my own water, sewer, electrical system no bills no outages. Prices for the equipment have been coming down for years now.

    #227 6 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    o-din , my place may be small but I would make room if you ever had to get out! Should you be willing to come to TEXAS that is.

    Thanks, but I plan on being like the Omega Man around here, living on delta smelt, and muddy water if I have to.

    #228 6 months ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    I talked to the Tesla folks about this and for my house they were going to be close to 94K. That was enough of a turnoff for me. Plus, the shingles were not hurricane rated and had not been tested for a saltwater environment. One day I think we will get there but these costs are extreme for now.

    Just plugged my house into the calculator and the price for the solar roof has come down to 57k, so at least that is movement. Still, too expensive and skeptical of it in my environment, even with their warranty. 9k for my roof, my ass. My hurricane rated roof was over 20k.
    EB07C58A-4808-4FBC-A0DE-840A01064D62 (resized).jpeg

    #229 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Thanks, but I plan on being like the Omega Man around here, living on delta smelt, and muddy water if I have to.

    They get lots of fresh water!!

    And I hope people dont think i hate Cali, quite the opposite! I love it. What, with sanctuary cities taking the criminals out of AZ and the abundance of homelesness encampments, we dont have to worry about stepping on needles or in fresh human feces. The beaches are nice too!! Keep up the good work!

    #230 6 months ago

    This isn't all that bad. Slow day so I've got my feet up on the desk and am watching the palm trees sway in the breeze.

    Where else in the country are they going to pay me to do that?

    #231 6 months ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Wow dude,your state is run by Democrats.Why don't you just blame this on Trump?

    Very true...I'm sure he'll try

    #232 6 months ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    They actually still do offer it: https://www.sunrun.com/solar-lease . We even negotiated with them at the time to where if we decide to replace our roof within 10 years they would re-install the system for free, got that in writing although admittedly I don't know if they would do that today. As for overage, just setup your electric account as net metering (NEM). It's not automatic, that's something you have to do. I don't know about other states but in California that works like this:
    "Under NEM, the customer's electric meter keeps track of how much electricity is consumed by the customer, and how much excess electricity is generated by the system and sent back into the electric utility grid. Over a 12-month period, the customer has to pay only for the net amount of electricity used from the utility over-and-above the amount of electricity generated by their solar system"
    If your state doesn't offer that then go for a Tesla Powerwall to bank the overage. NEM is kinda the reason some people say it's not worth getting a Tesla Powerwall in California because you get full credit for your overage if you are setup as NEM. We don't have one for that reason although I've considered getting one just because it would be cool to have backup power just in case.

    Sure if you live in more outskirt areas you have to be ready to move because there is so much fire fuel out there, I even mentioned that but that doesn't really apply to most people. It's like those that live in the hills of Malibu, they realize their is risk but they do it anyways, but for most people it's a non issue because we live on typical blocks. You do have to heed evacuation notices though and not wait until the last minute. We actually do have first hand experience on how fast a fire moves during the Woolsey fire, got right up close and personal, but that was due to our own stupidity lol.

    Everything I've read about those solar tiles seem to indicate them being both extremely difficult to get a hold of, and just not worth it. They sure look cool though.

    I think I would rather own then lease. Under a lease you are paying a monthly bill and maybe 20% less than previous bill. Owning is better for resale and I don't want to pay a monthly energy bill, even if it is less than before. When you own the system you pay once a year. Nothing is for free. If you lease they take your federal credit and lock you in at your current rate (or slightly discounted). Not even close to being free. You are not paying $0 monthly and $0 down. The company would make nothing.

    https://www.chooseenergy.com/news/article/pros-cons-solar-lease/

    #233 6 months ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Isnt the earth a closed system? Water gets used, evaporates, goes back into the atmosphere, falls as rain, gets used again....we cant run out of water, where would it go?

    The ocean? Thanks for noting the closed system. Suggests humans can’t just dump crap into the environment forever.

    #234 6 months ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Suggests humans can’t just dump crap into the environment forever.

    And they wonder why the west coast is attracting so many great white sharks these days when it is now one big chum bucket.

    #235 6 months ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:Yep, the firefighters in Cali earn their money.

    Firefighters everywhere earn their money. Except the volunteers. They’re exceptionally generous and brave. And earn our gratitude.

    #236 6 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Dear Lord!
    The hits just keep on coming.

    Price gouging laws? I know we have them here and they are enforced when hurricanes or tropical storms hit.
    o-din , my place may be small but I would make room if you ever had to get out! Should you be willing to come to TEXAS that is.

    Just in time for another Houston flood ?

    #237 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:Live coverage for those that aren't lucky enough to be here.

    Are some of these neighborhoods the “sprawl” where houses were built in places with fire hazards? I grew up in SoCal, and lived in Granada Hills, which was mentioned. But I’ve never heard of some of these places.

    #238 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Just in time for another Houston flood ?

    Had one this year already, we should be good until next spring!

    #239 6 months ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    I, myself, have a gas generator in the garage if needed. Not a permanent solution. I was honestly hoping those freaking solar shingles would be out soon as I will need a roof in the next couple years.
    My inlaws however, who are very close, have a natural gas generator, well system with reverse osmosis, and a septic that gets filtered and dumped into their pond. That is my plan when the shit goes bad. Go to their house.
    I would love a NG generator, I may get one some day. I would rather get a solar roof and have a shed in the back with a battery array when I can store power.
    I really liked this idea for storing energy, although unrelated to what california is going through at this moment. Check it out.
    https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11524958/energy-storage-rail

    This does not sound like the slam-duck you first made it out to be.

    I live in a small house. Sort of like o-din. My average electricity is about $50-$60 month and would be less if i did not keep the AC on COLD. The gas bill averages about $30.00/month. The payouts to step up to the later and latest technology are just too far out there. As far as for doing my part for the environment, The Prez., Airforce 1, and Secret Service burn more fuel in one hour than I will burn in a lifetime.

    #240 6 months ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    Yes, so that explains why you diverte millions of gallons of water from farmland use for a fish that was dying off anyway. Good thinking lol. https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-smelt-environment-20180105-story.html

    You didn’t read the article did you?

    #241 6 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    My average electricity is about $50-$60 month

    Quoted from o-din:

    with my $20-$30 a month electric bill it makes no sense.

    Damn guys, found something more expensive here in Texas... my elec bill from September! FYI simple small 3 bed 2 bath.
    pasted_image (resized).png

    #242 6 months ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Are some of these neighborhoods the “sprawl” where houses were built in places with fire hazards? I grew up in SoCal, and lived in Granada Hills, which was mentioned. But I’ve never heard of some of these places.

    If you left California in say 1980, the population was close to 24 million, and now it is close to 40 million. Most in So Cal I believe.

    In that time, building never stopped, so places you might have gone to or not out in the boonies, are today's housing projects.

    Take south Orange County for example where there wasn't much between Santa Ana and San Clemente. It is now fully built up the entire way.

    And on the north end the area around Magic Mountain which used to be way out in the sticks, is now a major metropolis.

    #243 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    If you left California in say 1980, the population was close to 24 million, and now it is close to 40 million. Most in So Cal I believe.

    So true. And people dont believe that Orange County (CA's 3 largest co., 6th largest co. in country) was the most conservative part of country-Nixon, San Clemente, home of the Western white house. A state Senator once joked he wanted to join the far right John Birch society to get the middle of the road vote in Orange county. Goodbye 70s, hello a hell of a lot more people and their cultures. Its impossible to change the beach culture where I live. Not so in the northern part of county where English isn't first language in some parts now.

    #244 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Live coverage for those that aren't lucky enough to be here.

    Damn. Thanks

    #245 6 months ago
    Quoted from jamesmc:

    Its impossible to change the beach culture where I live.

    Well some sure are and have been trying. When I was your neighbor in the 1980s, it was cheaper to live in San Clemente than inland where I live now, and the freeway in and out was barren on the weekends. It was like a perfect outpost away from everything.

    As time went on, I can't tell you how disheartening it was to watch each time one of those cute little beach bungalows from the 40s or 50s got mowed down or they took some of the last available lots so a stack of condos could be put in it's place.

    I could go on and I know you and many others down there are pretty well situated, but from what I have seen, it has not been totally immune from outside greed.

    #246 6 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    As time went on, I can't tell you how disheartening it was to watch each time one of those cute little beach bungalows from the 40s or 50s got mowed down so a stack of condos could be put in it's place.

    You mean all the way back to the 20's. Disgusting what they have done, but not as bad as most beach towns. I was kinda referring to I can still understand for the most part the 3 languages spoken here. English, Spanish, and Dude.

    #247 6 months ago
    Quoted from jamesmc:

    You mean all the way back to the 20's. Disgusting what they have done, but not as bad as most beach towns. I was kinda referring to I can still understand for the most part the 3 languages spoken here. English, Spanish, and Dude.

    Believe you me, I miss it. I miss all you characters and pier rats. It was the time of my life!

    I had to make a decision, and that was I was priced out of there, and I wasn't going to work my fingers to the bone to stay, just to get priced out later on. You've seen my spread, it's not so bad.

    #248 6 months ago

    I wonder how many actually lost power? They threatened to shut it off up here (Bay Area), but they never shut the power down in my City. The only thing they accomplished was causing a lot of school drama for the kids (they were hoping to stay home)....sounds like this might be the new norm?

    #249 6 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I wonder how many actually lost power? They threatened to shut it off up here (Bay Area), but they never shut the power down in my City. The only thing they accomplished was causing a lot of school drama for the kids (they were hoping to stay home)....sounds like this might be the new norm?

    You can bet that PG&E knows exactly how many lost power and how much revenue that they missed out on.
    They might not publish that information, but rest assured, they know exactly what the number is...
    They have plenty of accountants, computers and other cubicle related people that are creating reports on exactly what the damage is.
    They probably will meet in a big board room and do a presentation with graphs and charts on it.

    -2
    #250 6 months ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Isnt the earth a closed system? Water gets used, evaporates, goes back into the atmosphere, falls as rain, gets used again....we cant run out of water, where would it go?

    That's not quite right. The atmosphere can be lost to space over time. It's quite likely Venus and/or Mars were Earth-like billions of years ago before losing theirs. There's also far more water deep inside the planet than on the surface and in the Oceans.

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