The only reason it makes economic sense to buy solar is if you run your AC or have a pool you heat (electric pumps). The technology and cost isn't quite there yet to justify owning based on the payback scale. Especially considering how much people move. I'm an analyst, trust me, I've done the math. With that said, I bought solar because we use our AC. My electric bill for the year was about $400. My payback was about 5 years and factoring about 50 cents on the dollar return on investment when I sell the house as a feature....and I got a hell of a deal and subsidy on mine.

I hope all fellow pinsiders are doing well. I cant imagine the issues with having power out for that long...and doubling the problems when people's jobs have to shut down.

I hope everyone is okay.

There are subsidies to go solar, but yeah, with my $20-$30 a month electric bill it makes no sense.

Not that fire is not possible, but I live in an older, established neighborhood, not near much wide open brush.

A generator is making sense though because when the next big earthquake hits, we could be without power indefinitely depending on how much damage happens.

Your electric bill was $33. per month? This must be after you installed solar. What was it prior to that?

It's pretty funny watching a guy with a leafblower across the street with the winds blowing so hard. I will say, they are persistent.

Right. The temperature rose to allow the thawing.

I, myself, have a gas generator in the garage if needed. Not a permanent solution. I was honestly hoping those freaking solar shingles would be out soon as I will need a roof in the next couple years.

My inlaws however, who are very close, have a natural gas generator, well system with reverse osmosis, and a septic that gets filtered and dumped into their pond. That is my plan when the shit goes bad. Go to their house.

I would love a NG generator, I may get one some day. I would rather get a solar roof and have a shed in the back with a battery array when I can store power.

I really liked this idea for storing energy, although unrelated to what california is going through at this moment. Check it out.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11524958/energy-storage-rail

I see. It all depends on what the definition of "it" is. Quarter drops but temp rises.

Natural gas or propane is not actually generating power yourself. In the event of an earthquake or perhaps flooding, fire or hurricane you may lose natural gas and propane can be hard to come by in a natural disaster. Was hoping that you were going to share with us how to actually generate power.

I have a NG generator with auto transfer switch that hasn't been needed in 10 plus years but if you have ever gone several weeks without power, as I have, you will gladly pay the price for the peace of mind. AC is a beautiful thing and lights arejn't bad either.

Wow dude,your state is run by Democrats.Why don't you just blame this on Trump?

Who says it's his state? He certainly doesn't seem like he's from here.

It says on his avatar he's from Tent City Ca.

Ca. has lots of hot air these days. Some blows in from out of state.

Yup you lease them, we went with Sunrun around 8 years or so ago. 0$ down, all maintenance covered free for the entire lease, guaranteed electric monthly production, roof leak warranty and your electric bill instantly goes down saving you money on day one. Combine that with an electric car and between the gas and electric bill the savings are *huge*. Because they handle all maintenance free forever they are truly worry free, unlike if you buy them. We don't get overage because we use a lot of electric (two electric cars, I work from home so a/c runs all day, lots of tech gear, etc), but we went from our last big bill being around $620 in one month back 8 years ago to around a peak max of $320 today. The panels alone literally have saved us many thousands of dollars, and gas savings has been in the thousands as well.

If you have electric over production then get a Tesla powerwall, that will save your overage and also power your home if the power goes out, it costs about the price of a pin but you get a tax credit for it. Side bonus, they are a local company and I always try and support local. There's lots of California incentives like this, we take advantage of all of them, has saved us a small fortune.

Seriously, look into all this! That's what I mean when I say ignore what other people say and do your own research as to what your location offers. So while others just keep repeating "California bad" we in turn are both very much data and numbers people so we look at what's available, crunch some numbers and sign up if it saves us money.

EDIT: Forgot to comment on taxes, here's a link for you: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/taxes/T006-S001-10-least-tax-friendly-states-in-the-u-s-2019/index.html

Wow you love to attack me and be obtuse in the process. Do you just like drama or what? They are there in that picture because, get this, they are fire fighters and that is their job, just like policemen get near the bad guys. My "walk away" comment is unbelievably simple to understand, I'm assuming you actually do get it but are being purposely silly just because you seem to love to attack me. But I'll spell it out for you. A fire starts what do you do? Do you sit there and get burned, or do you leave your home and drive away? That's what I mean, it's a natural disaster that is easy to avoid. Counter that to tornado's which can strike randomly anywhere even over your head. Have you ever been in one? I have. There is no escape for those unless you are lucky to be in a concrete garage, which is where we were when some struck when we lived in Texas. Get it now? Likewise if you look at the data just living in winter is more dangerous as all natural disasters. Been there and done that too.

To the fires, yeah they suck but understand the media is in the business of making everything look as bad as possible. There's a fire burning right now near our house some miles away but if you go outside you'd never know it. However if you watch it on tv they make it look like the apocalypse because that keeps people watching and keeps ad revenue flowing. It's no different when we lived in Seattle years ago and they had a 7.8 earthquake. We'd go outside and you'd never know anything happened, but on tv they successfully made it look like armageddon. I can't tell you how many times I've had family and friends call from back in Canada asking if we are ok because tv made stuff look so bad, only for me to tell them that we didn't even notice.

There is tons of wilderness here which is just vulnerable to being burned so yeah if you build your house in the middle of wilderness it will have a chance of being burned. For most people this isn't the case, you may get smoke sometimes but even that is relatively rare. We've had to deal with smoke maybe 3 times in 14 years that we've been here.

I don't attack people, I just call it like I see it or hear it. Easy for those stuck in the fire zones to just drive away as well, when the roads are packed or closed. And then figure out where to go.

I'm out. Too much drama here. I'm not one to try to match wits in a conversation no one is going to win.

Hope the fire stays away from your estate.

Yes, AFTER solar.

Keep in mind, we aren't necessarily comparing apples to apples pertaining to usage before and after solar. We limited our AC usage prior because we were footing the bill. During summer months your bill can get up to $400.

I don't have my exact calcs so going off of memory.

Prior usage: $2400 a year let's say factoring in summer months with limited AC

Current: $400 annual with heavier AC usage

Savings: $2K per year. My cost of solar after subsidies and heavy bro discount was about $8K. Figure it adds some value to the house when we sell but hard to quantify. At 50 cents on the dollar payback roughly two years. No brainer. Sorry, my figure above was off. However, no subsidy (I think tax write of ends this year?) and paying full freight you are looking about anywhere from $15-25K. Now consider some of the companies mark up during times of tax rebates. So let's say you get a unit owned for $15K. That's a seven year break-even if you don't plan on selling the house. I think eventually the technology will be better and the cost cheaper as with most things.

I talked to the Tesla folks about this and for my house they were going to be close to 94K. That was enough of a turnoff for me. Plus, the shingles were not hurricane rated and had not been tested for a saltwater environment. One day I think we will get there but these costs are extreme for now.

8 years ago is not today. You are not going to get these deals today and if they advertise as such it is a lie with hidden costs. The reason it was free before was because they could sell the overages, you don't own equipment, they do. They sell the overages back to the power companies. Since you installed many more people have installed solar. The overage payback price is next to nothing now. I don't even sell mine back because it is basically worthless. It is better to bank it in case you have overages in the upcoming year. You statement, although true a decade ago, isn't even remotely close to accurate in the current market.

As for, just drive away. You are failing to realize how fast fires move. A majority of these fires happen in communities on the outskirts that have limited access, like O-din mentioned. There is a reason why the city tells you to have shit ready to move. Basically your family pictures, and anything you can fit in a trunk. Upon evacuation those two lane roads in and out clog fast. They are bottle necks. The fires spread so fast out here last year that the horses were being burned alive even after being released from their stables. They honestly almost move as fast as a tornado in some instances. The fires in Thousand Oaks aren't as bad. My in-laws lived there.

I will agree with you that the media loves to sensationalize everything. Politics, natural disasters, civil unrest. They are in the business of entertaining now....sad to say.

They actually still do offer it: https://www.sunrun.com/solar-lease . We even negotiated with them at the time to where if we decide to replace our roof within 10 years they would re-install the system for free, got that in writing although admittedly I don't know if they would do that today. As for overage, just setup your electric account as net metering (NEM). It's not automatic, that's something you have to do. I don't know about other states but in California that works like this:

"Under NEM, the customer's electric meter keeps track of how much electricity is consumed by the customer, and how much excess electricity is generated by the system and sent back into the electric utility grid. Over a 12-month period, the customer has to pay only for the net amount of electricity used from the utility over-and-above the amount of electricity generated by their solar system"

If your state doesn't offer that then go for a Tesla Powerwall to bank the overage. NEM is kinda the reason some people say it's not worth getting a Tesla Powerwall in California because you get full credit for your overage if you are setup as NEM. We don't have one for that reason although I've considered getting one just because it would be cool to have backup power just in case.

Sure if you live in more outskirt areas you have to be ready to move because there is so much fire fuel out there, I even mentioned that but that doesn't really apply to most people. It's like those that live in the hills of Malibu, they realize their is risk but they do it anyways, but for most people it's a non issue because we live on typical blocks. You do have to heed evacuation notices though and not wait until the last minute. We actually do have first hand experience on how fast a fire moves during the Woolsey fire, got right up close and personal, but that was due to our own stupidity lol.

Everything I've read about those solar tiles seem to indicate them being both extremely difficult to get a hold of, and just not worth it. They sure look cool though.

So now we have several major freeway closures including I-5, 405, 210, and 14.

Not a good situation at all for those with a long daily commute or anybody else in that area. Just glad I'm not one of them.

Stay as safe as you can people.

Gas jumps over 5$ a gallon in LA

Yes, so that explains why you diverte millions of gallons of water from farmland use for a fish that was dying off anyway. Good thinking lol. https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-smelt-environment-20180105-story.html

Dear Lord!
The hits just keep on coming.

Price gouging laws? I know we have them here and they are enforced when hurricanes or tropical storms hit.

o-din , my place may be small but I would make room if you ever had to get out! Should you be willing to come to TEXAS that is.

I have the answer... Off The Grid Solar! Just build your own power system. I did and have done for many others for years. I have a home in an Off the Grid Community. I own my own water, sewer, electrical system no bills no outages. Prices for the equipment have been coming down for years now.

Thanks, but I plan on being like the Omega Man around here, living on delta smelt, and muddy water if I have to.

Just plugged my house into the calculator and the price for the solar roof has come down to 57k, so at least that is movement. Still, too expensive and skeptical of it in my environment, even with their warranty. 9k for my roof, my ass. My hurricane rated roof was over 20k.
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They get lots of fresh water!!

And I hope people dont think i hate Cali, quite the opposite! I love it. What, with sanctuary cities taking the criminals out of AZ and the abundance of homelesness encampments, we dont have to worry about stepping on needles or in fresh human feces. The beaches are nice too!! Keep up the good work!

This isn't all that bad. Slow day so I've got my feet up on the desk and am watching the palm trees sway in the breeze.

Where else in the country are they going to pay me to do that?

Very true...I'm sure he'll try

I think I would rather own then lease. Under a lease you are paying a monthly bill and maybe 20% less than previous bill. Owning is better for resale and I don't want to pay a monthly energy bill, even if it is less than before. When you own the system you pay once a year. Nothing is for free. If you lease they take your federal credit and lock you in at your current rate (or slightly discounted). Not even close to being free. You are not paying $0 monthly and $0 down. The company would make nothing.

https://www.chooseenergy.com/news/article/pros-cons-solar-lease/

The ocean? Thanks for noting the closed system. Suggests humans can’t just dump crap into the environment forever.

And they wonder why the west coast is attracting so many great white sharks these days when it is now one big chum bucket.

Firefighters everywhere earn their money. Except the volunteers. They’re exceptionally generous and brave. And earn our gratitude.

Are some of these neighborhoods the “sprawl” where houses were built in places with fire hazards? I grew up in SoCal, and lived in Granada Hills, which was mentioned. But I’ve never heard of some of these places.

Had one this year already, we should be good until next spring!

You didn’t read the article did you?

Damn guys, found something more expensive here in Texas... my elec bill from September! FYI simple small 3 bed 2 bath.
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If you left California in say 1980, the population was close to 24 million, and now it is close to 40 million. Most in So Cal I believe.

In that time, building never stopped, so places you might have gone to or not out in the boonies, are today's housing projects.

Take south Orange County for example where there wasn't much between Santa Ana and San Clemente. It is now fully built up the entire way.

And on the north end the area around Magic Mountain which used to be way out in the sticks, is now a major metropolis.

So true. And people dont believe that Orange County (CA's 3 largest co., 6th largest co. in country) was the most conservative part of country-Nixon, San Clemente, home of the Western white house. A state Senator once joked he wanted to join the far right John Birch society to get the middle of the road vote in Orange county. Goodbye 70s, hello a hell of a lot more people and their cultures. Its impossible to change the beach culture where I live. Not so in the northern part of county where English isn't first language in some parts now.

Damn. Thanks

Well some sure are and have been trying. When I was your neighbor in the 1980s, it was cheaper to live in San Clemente than inland where I live now, and the freeway in and out was barren on the weekends. It was like a perfect outpost away from everything.

As time went on, I can't tell you how disheartening it was to watch each time one of those cute little beach bungalows from the 40s or 50s got mowed down or they took some of the last available lots so a stack of condos could be put in it's place.

I could go on and I know you and many others down there are pretty well situated, but from what I have seen, it has not been totally immune from outside greed.

You mean all the way back to the 20's. Disgusting what they have done, but not as bad as most beach towns. I was kinda referring to I can still understand for the most part the 3 languages spoken here. English, Spanish, and Dude.

Believe you me, I miss it. I miss all you characters and pier rats. It was the time of my life!

I had to make a decision, and that was I was priced out of there, and I wasn't going to work my fingers to the bone to stay, just to get priced out later on. You've seen my spread, it's not so bad.

I wonder how many actually lost power? They threatened to shut it off up here (Bay Area), but they never shut the power down in my City. The only thing they accomplished was causing a lot of school drama for the kids (they were hoping to stay home)....sounds like this might be the new norm?

That's not quite right. The atmosphere can be lost to space over time. It's quite likely Venus and/or Mars were Earth-like billions of years ago before losing theirs. There's also far more water deep inside the planet than on the surface and in the Oceans.