So many posts I thought maybe the new DLC software update was available.

I thought Richard finally got his game !

I expect cgc will offer you new decals and legs, Even though you did tell them that you didn't consider that an acceptable offer. Why? Because if they absorb the cost of complete restoration on your machine, or replace your machine with a new one, they're opening up pandoras box. They'll be forced to extend that courtesy to every person out there that has the issue, or any other cosmetic issue for that matter. Then, pinsiders will start complaining that cgc should make good with this same offer on previous titles and future titles. Before you know it, half of CGCs business will be swapping machines and restoring small cosmetic imperfections. Some Pinsiders are never satisfied. They never stop. Give an inch, they'll expect a mile. For these reasons, the offer you get will most likely be new legs and new decals, not installed. My opinion.

Nope, still discussing the great Leg scandal of 2022. This is starting to rival TopperGate.....

I also completely agree. Times have changed. Even if they haven’t, I think a commercial operator shouldn’t have to agree to lesser standards. They are paying the same price for the product as everyone else. With that being said, I do think CGC will figure out an acceptable solution.

Hi all CGC game owners. I wanted to make a quick post here to get the word out about my new Mod's for the Flippers and flipper shaft bushing upgrades that will fit all CGC games. I've posted the links below if you're interested in learning more about them. Thanks for looking

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1341-precision-pinball-prod/06654-precision-flip-flipper-system

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1341-precision-pinball-prod/06993-precision-flipper-shaft-bushing

Flipper Bushings 4 (resized).jpg

Flipper Kit_Std (resized).jpg

These look great. I saw Jordan and Rebecca from Fliptronic streaming them.

PM_Jeremy Thank you! Do you have a link to the stream?

I was that person but you totally_ misunderstood my argument. *LOL*

I gave examples how defective products are repaired. Some products are repaired in your house, for example a leaking AC.

I didn’t say GCG should send LTG over to sand off the decal in your living room and glue on a new one.

The *point* was that companies figure out a way to make the customer whole. This is called professionalism.

You may think a low quality approach of “here is a decal, slap it on and be happy” is the way to go but others aren’t that accommodating.

I see the Jersey Jack mindset infested people here.

No wonder they tell customers to get lost when their GnR blisters like it has herpes because it’s a commercial product and who cares about cosmetics, right?

Some of you gals and guys really accept everything. Especially when it happens to other people.

Here you go https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1517056316

If an automaker sent out new vehicles with scratches on them, is that acceptable? I mean it doesn’t effect how the car drives, so just suck it up?

CGC should refund $100 bucks and call it a day. That's about what this will cost him when he decides to sell it. We all know this has nothing to do with the look, the gameplay, the quest for something perfect because they spent $8k..... its about "how much money will I lose when I sell it."

I love the tv and car comparisons..... a tv with a broken screen can't be used... a pinball with scratched sideart can. A car with scratches can be easily brought to the shop to be fixed, a pinball machine can't. However drive the car around for a week and BOOM .... dings and scratches so that's even more of a bad example.

I also love the soapbox committee coming on here to shame people that are not holding up the pitchforks against CGC. No one I have seen yet has not agreed that this still sucks and hopes something gets done.

Again lets stop with the drama and move on to what cool things CCr has to offer, mods, updates, etc. When CGC addresses the issue, then post the results and it can be discussed from there.

PM_Jeremy Thanks for posting that link.
I took a quick watch and felt I needed to comment on what was stated about the replacement flipper shaft bushings. He got it wrong when he stated that the interface between the flipper shaft and bushings is aluminum. The flipper shafts supplied with my flipper mod are Stainless Steel, not aluminum. I assume he was using his analogy of metal friction in a dry condition? not sure. However, they are not installed dry, a small amount of light weight oil or lithum grease is applied which will last a very long time in this application as rotational speeds are low as well as torsional loads. In all fareness I cannot fault him for not knowing this as he did not order and install the bushings. In addition, I think he may not have picked up on the real benefits of installing the bushings, it's about recovering lost energy due to the slop in the plastic bushings and improving the flipper/ball control. To that end perhaps going into a little more about how the system works together I would add the following as others may find this helpful.

About a year ago when I was experimenting with different flipper angles on AIQ I started taking a critical look at the components that make up the flipper mechanism. I kept thinking there’s got to be a better way. I became obsessed with wanting to improve what I felt was undoubtedly the most interactive part of playing pinball.

From my perspective some game layouts, ramps, and shot making challenges have evolved to a point where having a more refined/precise flipper system would improve the playability of the game. When you really think about that for a minute I think one could agree.

I’m pretty confident as to why all the game manufacturers keep using these same flipper parts, they’re very low cost, they’ve been the norm for years, and they work OK. As pinball enthusiasts should we just settle for OK? Maybe OK is fine, but I wanted to raise the bar.

My goal was three-fold, design a system that would make it super easy to adjust the flipper angle (from above the playfield), improve the flipper responsiveness/control, and potentially improve the overall ability for the flipper to deliver more energy to the ball.

The logical way to do this IMO was to design a system that utilized materials that transfer energy more efficiently (plastic absorbs energy and flexes), incorporate tighter tolerances into the parts to improve shot making accuracy while at the same time recovering lost energy in the mechanism, and lastly make it easy to install.

It took several different iterations to get there, but after seven months I was on track with what's now the production version. If you really want to find out just how much slop is in the factory set up, grab hold of your flipper and rock it around its rotational axis, you'll see and feel it. The number one question everyone has been asking me in PM’s is does this system increase the performance of the flippers, the answer is YES.

This system isn’t just about experienced players either. Everyone who enters into this hobby has to learn the art of ball control, having the ability to easily install a longer flipper bat gives those new players a better opportunity to perhaps shorten the learning curve. I think of the longer flipper bats as being training wheels for pinball! Then on the opposite end is the ability to easily install shortened flipper bats for those players who want a bigger challenge playing the game. The ‘Long and Short’ of it is this system brings it all together.

This mod may not be for everyone, and that’s fine, I’m not trying to convince everyone to ditch their factory flipper set up. But for those players looking for a high-quality product that rewards the player with enhanced playability and opens the door for more options (now and in the future) then this system is for you!

I’ve been playing pinball going on sixty years now, it all started for me at my local bowling alley arcade. A lot has changed in pinball over the years and that’s a good thing, we’ve all benefited from those advancements. Developing this mod is my way of helping to move the hobby and industry forward in an area that in my opinion has been overlooked by the manufacturers for too long. Players now have more options to mod their games, as I see it that’s a good thing.

Happy Flippen!

If an automobile was delivered with a small cosmetic blemish the size of a pea on the lower corner of the front bumper, yeah. Suck it up buttercup. Show me a new car, and ill find an imperfection on it somewhere.

I'm done posting anything else about legs. I'm the type of guy that if I can fix it myself without too much trouble, I will. It's more hassle than it's worth to pursue some futile effort to get a manufacturer to replace decals. Chances are, something else will get fucked up in the process anyway. I guess others would rather bang their heads against a wall than fix the issue and move on. A number of solutions have been offered by myself and others. But if that's too simple for ya, more power to you. You're wasting your time if you think CGC is going to come repair your decals or send you a new machine. End of story. Like i said earlier, lifes too short. That's my final comment on the matter.

And many require the customer to return the product to the company... at their own expense.
AC - most have parts only warranty, which mean you get to pay someone to come install the part.
Most large consumer items, at best you get a freight company that comes and picks up the product... and is usually something handled by the distributor/retailer - not the manufacturer.

Your examples really don't mean much because you are comparing apples, oranges, and watermelons.

At the end of the day, it's a cosmetic issue. Sucks, but *&% happens when you own games too. I think CGC should just offer people cabinet decals or an offer of CGC credit towards a future purchase for those who can't fix their stuff. Besides pepper's game.. most of this decal damage is so trivially minor.

Sometimes you get a bad draw... its up to you how much energy you want to spend on it. When we get games damaged in shipping, we don't aim for perfection, we aim for balance. For this kind of decal cuts... I'd flatten the decal out, try to minimize it's look, and just fix the leg and hope for some credit for my inconvenience.

Don't worry - people buy less than flawless games.

Don't worry - people buy less than flawless games.

They do, but they also negotiate a disproportionate amount with respect to even the smallest flaws.

People like that in my experience tend to not be truly into pinball, usually they are speculators who wipe their possessions with diapers and simply exist to drive up the costs in a hobby, all so they can make a few bucks.

It's subjective, but if I want a game I'm willing to overlook cosmetic issues for the most part because I want to play it.
Anyways, it does suck for those that are having it happen, obviously no one wants this to be happening, but CGC should be given the benefit of the doubt for now that a resolution will be reached.

Worse case as already mentioned the decals can be cut to prevent further spread and protectors placed over that, anyone putting up a stink during a potential negotiation over this is probably not even worth dealing with.

Hope those affected can still enjoy their games, life is too short.

I wonder if CGC could design a decal overlay which would cover up the damaged area and blend with or even enhance the cabinet artwork?

I know. It depends on the quality and attitude of the manufacturer.

JJP tells you to take a hike if your GnR CE playfield bubbles up.

CGC hopefully will do more than ship a decal for DIY.

Tesla tells you to take a hike, if the paint has a flaw.

Porsche will fix it, if their car has a paint flaw (well, they won’t even deliver it to you, if it has a flaw).

You (aren’t you an operator) don’t GAF because your use case is different from someone who puts it in their home.

Yeah, I do understand that some people just don’t care about quality but others do.

We’ll see, if GCG is a quality company or one of those “take it or leave it, we have your cash and in any case, there are tons of Flynnibuses in line to throw money at us, regardless of what we do” companies.

Everyone is getting way bent out shape on this leg issue

Great suggestion !

I see what you did there.... Bravo good sir, Bravo!

I've been debating getting a Cactus Canyon as my first "new" machine, but I'm wondering if its value will hold up over time or increase in a similar fashion to Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness, etc. after CGC no longer makes them.

Only reason why I'm asking that is because down the road I'd like to use my Cactus Canyon as leverage to get an AoM or MM or other modern machine.

Speculation is just that…speculation. You probably know as much as anyone else about whether CC will hold or increase in value in the future. The best advice I’ve heard from anyone on this subject is when a fellow Pinsider said “don’t buy these games as investments. Buy the games you want to play and use them for that purpose.” If your game goes up in value in the future, great. If not, who cares? You bought it because you enjoy it. That should be all that matters.

Thank you Amazon Now to find a nice 5 pointed badge.

20220707_173643 (resized).jpg

Will these also fit W/B IJ? JD? DM?

Just bought CCr Radcal Mirror decals. Perfect reason to convert my LE whenever it’s here.

Can you put the new radcal decals right over the old ones or do you need to take off the old ones first?

underlord Thanks for asking. On the W/B games yes, but you would need to order the bushings specific to that game series listed in the ordering options, the flipper system will drop in as well using the original factory plastic bushings if you want to leave them as is.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any other specific questions you would like me to answer.

Thanks!

That's pretty cool. Which color is yours?

Old brass color

The antique gold?

Technically yes, but I’ll get rid of the factory stuff and do minor prep before installing Radcals. Cakewalk. 3-5 hour job if I loaf it.

Thank you.

When applying RadCals, you just need to make sure the surface is smooth, level, and clean. Sand down / fill in damaged areas as needed. Removing the decals isn't really necessary. Radcals are about as thick as poster board and rigid clear plastic with graphics printed on the back side. The entire back side is adhesive just like normal decals.

CGC could even offer a discount to the upcoming "software & saloon doors" package for those affected. Just about all of us owners on Pinside are going to spring for it (as long as it's not absurdly priced), so they could also make a good faith effort with a discount for the package while using it as a tool to keep additional revenues coming in.

Was just wondering what you think an absurd price would be for the upgrade. I expect it to be $700 but think an absurd price would be $1,500.

Wait What is this software and saloon door thing? Has this been announced? I must have missed it among all the leg gate crap….

Read the FAQ's at the beginning of this thread, look for "Optional upgrade kit [not available yet]"

LTG : )

I’m callin bs

I’m aware of that FAQ but that FAQ is not a fact it is speculation, I was asking if the new hardware is in fact saloon doors.