Damn! This game is fun. Finally got to play the remake SE. Love CGC quality!

Pyramid Scheme?

Proof in point on the shallow code. My pinball buddy came over today to play cactus, he’d only ever played it on location a few times. Now he is a pinball guy and plays a lot so yes he is a decent player. But I think on our 5th game he got to High Noon and beat it.

I had lowered the outlane posts all the way, which i do on all my games. Maybe that was just too much for this game.

Anyways, looking forward to beating it myself too. And looking forward to the revamped new code when it’s available.

Yeah it’s not very difficult to reach High Noon but I like that I have a game that I can beat every once in a while. Hopefully upgraded code will add some difficulty and more content from continued code.

They just added a CCr SE to The Arcade in Brighton. If you're trying to find the closest location to you.

I do agree it’s nice to have a game thats approachable and beatable. It’s a lot of fun so not really complaining.

Coin Slot Arcade in Traverse City.

https://pinside.com/pinball/map/mapbox#18.72/44.7637702/-85.6160511/0/26

My pinball club met there a few months ago. Glad to know they have one, I might drop in. I played it at Pyramid Scheme two weeks ago on an overnight, first one I've seen in public.

Great location, I played there on overnights last summer. I saw a few TVC layovers for next month, I hope to get one.

It's a classic Bally Williams title. That's par for the course code wise. BUT, that's what makes those old titles so fun. Occasionally you have an awesome game and get to the final wizard mode. If you beat it, so what, keep going, get there twice, thrice, 4x , there's no limit. I guarantee you'll never find a limit to your high score. I own a couple games with really deep, deep, deep code. They have their place. However, I hate that I'll never, EVER achieve everything the game has to offer. I'm not good enough. Period. Anyway, I like both old and new games, just don't knock an old game because it doesn't have enough code to require a stinking manual to understand it.

I’m sure they’ll have the instructions on their site in the next couple days.

I keep seeing posts about the game maybe not being deep or hard enough. Personally what do I know, I only have a couple older machines so I am excited for the day when my more modern LE will arrive. Out of curiosity, could someone give me an example of what some of these more deep titles are? I would think that just because a game is deeper it does not mean it is more fun so I would be interested in the games people are comparing this to.

I don't even care about getting to high noon, I enjoy getting there but honestly just give me (showdown multiball) over and over!!
A friend came over and beat my high new Champion score but didn't touch my (badguy) champ score of 73 so I didn't even care! haha.
This is a game that i just enjoy to play as my nearly 300 plays in a month would suggest

I really hope High Noon gets revamped. It’s too quick and easy as it is now. Showdown is way more fun.

The 2 deep games I own are Jurassic Park (stern) and JJP Guns n Roses. Crazy complex rules on both. Avengers Infinity quest is another. Honestly, to me, personally, it's too much. Non pinball friends ask "so what do I do?" And its got to the point where I just say, don't let the ball drain. There's no point in even attempting to explain. Classic Bally Williams titles hit that sweet spot of easy to understand, difficult to master. But, damn it, sometimes, I love myself some JP or GnR for totally different reasons.

Agree 100%. I had an AIQ and JP, the former was far too deep for guests. I'm sitting down for a moment after playing my 3 game wall. (I usually play one section of games on nights I get to play to keep it fresh and play them all regularly) On that set, I warm up on MMR. I understand all of the rules. I've blown up more castles, and smacked more trolls than I can count. But keeping a game going long enough to defeat all of the kings men is still a challenge that I rarely accomplish. It is always the favorite of non-pinball guests. CCR seems to have many of the same qualities, though I've only played about 10 games thus far.

20220428_230858 (resized).jpg

Even with more code the game ships from the factory with the outlane posts wide open for this reason. If you up the pitch and open them up it will be much more difficult. I think the slings on this game are what makes it more difficult, they are very sensitive and set powerful. For me the kickout from Bart is inconsistent that sometimes hits the slings or the top of the slings and makes the ball out of control. Considering how many times you hit that shot it makes it tough. I tried to look for adjustment but it seems the VUK may be the problem.

Thanks for the input. I've placed an order. Also ordered cables off of ebay and some spot lights from Comet that I will need to modify to accomodate the bulbs. I intend adding a couple of spots to the slingshots as well to better light the playfield center.

How long does it take to get a sticker for Richards game ?

WTH .......

Haha! I’ll go cross the border tonight, break in, bring it home!

Best idea so far ....

This conversation always gets convoluted because people confuse 'more' and 'varied'. Lack of depth is not necessarily the same as simple.

Games can either be shallow in that.. there is little to do
or games can be shallow in that there is little WORTH doing or much variation to it.
Games with 'depth' are really about having good variation in strategy or layers that also reward that variation.

Simply adding 20 more modes of the same thing isn't adding depth - that's breadth.

So the real conversation is really 'how much' and 'how varied'. For instance, a game may have a lot to do.. but if it's just a grind without much variation.. that's breadth, not depth. Contrast that with another game.. that may give a lot of variation to play through strategy or variation in a smaller number of objectives. Examples like opportunistic play mechanics like stacking, or boosters, or variable scoring opportunities that give players multiple paths to progress.. or reward players differently depending on their success.

So in a lot of ways, a more direct way to look at it is.. 'how much strategy/variation does the game offer to score big points?' TAF offers a ton of modes, but not necessarily a huge amount of strategy in how to play. Contrast with a complex game like Batman66.. where there are multiple layers people try to weave to unlock massive scoring. A game like Demolition Man has a decent number of modes.. but they are overshadowed by the potential of Multiball.. which is pretty basic to unlock and abuse over and over. So Demo Man is an example of 'shallow' because of scoring balance and lack of variation... large portions of the game become irrelevant. Contrast that with a game like Shadow... where it's not just one so obvious 'one way to play to win'.. because there are different paths that are still viable.

CC has a lot on it... but doesn't really offer a lot of strategy choices in your progression through the game. It's more of a grinder - just do everything.. when and how doesn't really matter. Your scoring doesn't really change based on other achievements, etc. In this regard.. the game is relatively flat.

WPC titles in general didn't have a lot of complexity in this area... some games suffer more than others in terms of lack of balancing or variation in what they offer. Ideas like score boosting, benefits, etc weren't really common play mechanics. Stacking modes, stacking mb+modes, extending or enhancing multiballs was pretty much the common mechanics at the time. A lot of strategy is more about 'what to avoid/ignore' vs 'what to do together' or 'what to do in what order'

CC also gets knocked on a bit because it's layout and basic mode qualification is essentially the same as it's siblings.. AFM, MM, MB, SS, etc. Contrast that with other titles that offered more geometry variation (Shadow, Congo, etc)

What all this means is.. in CC.. you basically just keep trying to do everything and stay alive. Scores are about success in hitting shots and staying alive.. and less about your strategic choices. That's why it's kind of boring to advanced players. There isn't as much 'payoff' for doing something challenging.

Contrast that with something like the triple MB stack in BSD... getting 30mil Jackpots is an objective that not only is challenging, but has a significant payoff for doing so.

So yes, at the 10ft level.. WPC in general were shallower than rulesets in the last decade.. but there are still ones that stand out more than others in terms of giving at least 2-3 different paths.. or 2-3 key objectives to unlock to make the game less of just 'shoot everything and stay alive'

CC doesn't excel based on it's depth or ruleset. It excelled with some fun mechanisms, unique play (quickdraw), and the good writing WMS/Bally had at the time. CCr builds on this by enhancing that physical game with nice quality.. and hopefully in the future extending that interesting game play.

Thanks to all that shared their thoughts on depth of game. After CCr I have room for about 2 maybe three machines so I am taking the time to evaluate how to fill it in over the next couple years. I started my collection with a couple of older machines that were near and dear growing up. Probably want to add a classic chime machine (Mata Hari SS maybe?) and then something deep for me so I appreciate all the comments. I am very excited for my CCr LE!

One more CGC remake. And one CGC original title.

LTG : )

The good thing about pinball is... they aren't like children

You can go and use other people's to see what you like... and getting one isn't a permanent commitment. As you tire of a game, you can sell it on and get something else. Focus on 'what will bring me entertainment now...' and less about the future. With stable or appreciating prices, owning a game has been a low commitment.

Wow, can’t we just agree that it’s a fun game to play whether it’s deep or shallow or whatever.

An original title is coming?

Yup.

I don't know the order of things. But that plan has been in the works for some time. With approximately two remakes left, it was inevitable with their investment in pinball, that they will continue.

And with the quality of their games. What ever they make will be a wonderful addition to pinball.

I don't know for a fact. But I long suspected an original title next. No idea if losing Lyman changed things up.

LTG : )

Wait, what?

TZ, TAF, ToM, CV, TOTAN

I count 5 remakes there!

Would like to see any of these, but CV would be my first pick. I owned one and sold it. It was my daughters favorite game and she never lets me forget it.

You left off a whole bunch. WH20, CFTBL, PTC, and EFL.

LTG : )

But not many left that wouldn't require expensive licensing, or whose original versions are expensive enough on the secondary market to warrant a rerun.

If they can maintain the 8k SE/9.25k LE price point, TAF, TZ, TOM, CV, TOTAN, IJ, SS, CFTBL and WH20 would all be profitable remakes (especially now that extended code is an option).

LTG - nice try on PukeyTheClown/EFL (whatever that is). I would hope Mystery Castle (with updated code/art) would come before those if we are picking random Alvin Gs. And BBB/PM if they do some Capcoms!

Ugh - same here. My daughter is 19 now and still gives me grief for selling CV - her favorite game. Now she loves my Ultraman and Pinball Magic. What a weirdo!

He said Ultraman there is a thread for Game#5 speculations

Check out Right Brain Brewery next time you're in town. 30 pins and climbing. That's where I play tournaments.

Pretty sure I watched in a video that Lyman’s untimely death will definitely impact future CGC titles as he was to rewrite code for them

He also noted that it was no coincidence that MM and AFM and MB were made as LFS had a huge contribution to their success

The limits were endless …

Truly Sad but what can you do but move forward

Anyone else have trouble getting responses back from tech support ? I've opened a ticket. Sent videos they requested etc . Been crickets . Tickets been open for two weeks with no suggestions. Bart registers hits when ball is plunged or drains or just at random . It also repeatedly trys to kick the ball out of the Bart trough when there is no ball in there.

I had to respond back on my ticket to get them to send my replacment part out. Might have gotten closed by mistake.

Give them a call tomorrow.

Please PM me the ticket number and I'll alert it.

LTG : )

Sounds like a simple switch adjustment. Are vibrations triggering the switches?

It seems to be at random . I've been looking for a stuck switch and just haven't seemed to find anything out of place . I suspect you are probably right, I just haven't figured it out yet

Start a game, let ball sit in the shooter lane and bang on cab in different spots and see if you can get it to register.

You do the same and ask them for your sticker

I cant believe it's almost Canada Day and Richard does not have his game! Dealers down here in the States have them in stock for instant purchase but they still cant get them certified in Canada? UGH!

Haha, I already bugged my dealer and Ryan enough! They have done all they can!

Haha, to think I shovelled my outdoor stairs leading down to the walk out basement all winter in case it showed up!

We are all pulling for you! The day your game is delivered will be a pinside holiday.

You need to be talking to Canadian customs to release the game. I doubt CGC or your distributor can do anything.