Quoted from jfh:I’ll continue to be the best manager ever.
More like the worst corporate sympathizer on all of pinside. Congrats you earned it! 
Your mom would be proud! I know Doug sure is!
(Topic ID: 310125)
Linked Games
Cactus Canyon (Remake - LE)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021-
Cactus Canyon (Remake - Special Edition Plus)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
-
Cactus Canyon (Remake - Special Edition)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
Topic Gallery
Quoted from jfh:No. You still have that same opportunity until you’ve paid for the game. I’ve been doing exactly that thinking about Bond. At worst, waiting ties up deposit money and that’s debatable.
If we had a proper timeline of say 6 months out and I could set my watch to that (instead of a sliding scale of wait times and delays) I could grab the BK2K or OKT I’d like to park in the basement for awhile and give those a go until CCr is ready. Could I do that anyway? Yes, but sure would be more convenient to know the timeframe so I can plan on selling them in advance of final invoice. Don’t give me the BS about free cash flow JFH, I have money for all of the above and daily expenses. I only have space for so many pins. So opportunity cost is the enjoyment of another title until CCr is ready. Murphy’s law says as soon as I pull the trigger on one, my LE will be ready... so maybe I should, lol.
Quoted from jfh:No. You still have that same opportunity until you’ve paid for the game. I’ve been doing exactly that thinking about Bond. At worst, waiting ties up deposit money and that’s debatable.
Wrong. There is a $10k future expense hanging in the balance to consider which must be reserved if one wants to eventually acquire the game.
Monroe Township, NJ
Sorry I mistakenly thought this was the CCr owners thread where folks come together to exchange knowledge about the game, fixes, tips, pics (and sometimes a little frustration). I do hope you LE buyers get your games soon and I personally look forward to seeing what CGC games come out next as I am impressed with my SE (first ever CGC). I was really trying to liven it up with positive energy and posts, but not worth it as my blood pressure rises every time I check in. I am leaving the group but hope you guys realize from an objective POV this forum thread reads like a FB group with a bunch of angry Karen's.
Quoted from DaddyManD:Sorry I mistakenly thought this was the CCr owners thread where folks come together to exchange knowledge about the game, fixes, tips, pics (and sometimes a little frustration). I do hope you LE buyers get your games soon and I personally look forward to seeing what CGC games come out next as I am impressed with my SE (first ever CGC). I was really trying to liven it up with positive energy and posts, but not worth it as my blood pressure rises every time I check in. I am leaving the group but hope you guys realize from an objective POV this forum thread reads like a FB group with a bunch of angry Karen's.
I know how dare us ask these most basic business questions about our 10k purchase.
Quoted from jackd104:Wrong. There is a $10k future expense hanging in the balance to consider which must be reserved if one wants to eventually acquire the game.
Wrong. With the game being way past it’s original delivery date, you should already have that 10k ready to go if you pre-ordered. Why do ppl have such a problem with not spending money that’s set aside???? If you had the game already that money would be gone anyway. Just treat it that way.
Quoted from DaddyManD:Sorry I mistakenly thought this was the CCr owners thread where folks come together to exchange knowledge about the game, fixes, tips, pics (and sometimes a little frustration). I do hope you LE buyers get your games soon and I personally look forward to seeing what CGC games come out next as I am impressed with my SE (first ever CGC). I was really trying to liven it up with positive energy and posts, but not worth it as my blood pressure rises every time I check in. I am leaving the group but hope you guys realize from an objective POV this forum thread reads like a FB group with a bunch of angry Karen's.
It will still be a good thread, use the ignore feature to weed out the users that bug you. Personally, I laugh at all the posts, good and bad.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Wrong. With the game being way past it’s original delivery date, you should already have that 10k ready to go if you pre-ordered. Why do ppl have such a problem with not spending money that’s set aside???? If you had the game already that money would be gone anyway. Just treat it that way.
Thanks for the information. You can now be CFO for this thread. Hell CFO for all of pinside. You clearly know things we don't.
Doug your CFO is really a big step up from your manager.
Once games start pumping out again it will turn around. Go back in the thread a few weeks and see how positive it was when those first 50 games where shipping. Then when they stopped people got antsy, which is understandable.
Quoted from srmonte:Deleted post
Quoted from srmonte:Deleted post
Right back at ya dude! Go upstairs and ask your mom to make you a hot chocolate. It’ll calm you down.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Wrong. With the game being way past it’s original delivery date, you should already have that 10k ready to go if you pre-ordered. Why do ppl have such a problem with not spending money that’s set aside???? If you had the game already that money would be gone anyway. Just treat it that way.
Meh, check out concepts such as opportunity cost, time value of money, assets, liabilities.
Quoted from srmonte:Thanks for the information. You can now be CFO for this thread. Hell CFO for all of pinside. You clearly know things we don't.
Doug your CFO is really a big step up from your manager.
Sorry it offends you that I know how to manage my personal finances.
Quoted from jackd104:Meh, check out concepts such as opportunity cost, time value of money, assets, liabilities.
You should still be making interest on that money that isn’t spent yet, other than the deposit.
Quoted from jackd104:It’s costs the opportunity of using your time, money, and energy pursuing another game or entertainment option.
Exactly! It’s common knowledge now CGC had piss poor communication can’t make a deadline even in the same year, and makes their customers feel like it’s
Called a reputation and they’ve earned it. Didn’t have to be that way.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Right back at ya dude! Go upstairs and ask your mom to make you a hot chocolate. It’ll calm you down.
That's why I'm asking questions. To try to know something.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Sorry it offends you that I know how to manage my personal finances.
Nice lol, you really are an upgrade from JFH. You sure told me. 
Quoted from moonraker:Exactly! It’s common knowledge now CGC had piss poor communication can’t make a deadline even in the same year, and makes their customers feel like it’s
Called a reputation and they’ve earned it. Didn’t have to be that way.
Exactly! This is not new and no change from their prior behaviour. It’s a long established pattern at this point with CGC.
What’s shocking and surprising is that folks are still….. shocked and surprised by this.
Quoted from DaddyManD:Sorry I mistakenly thought this was the CCr owners thread where folks come together to exchange knowledge about the game, fixes, tips, pics (and sometimes a little frustration). I do hope you LE buyers get your games soon and I personally look forward to seeing what CGC games come out next as I am impressed with my SE (first ever CGC). I was really trying to liven it up with positive energy and posts, but not worth it as my blood pressure rises every time I check in. I am leaving the group but hope you guys realize from an objective POV this forum thread reads like a FB group with a bunch of angry Karen's.
Because you have a game nutty
Just ordered a SE NIB. Looking forward to it.
Quoted from jfh:===========
RELATED VIDEOS
===========
Chicago Gaming’s Ryan White talks about Cactus Canyon Remake at Pintastic. The video opens with the CCr teaser originally shown at the announcement.Ryan’s presentation at Southern Fried Gaming Expo in August 2021 also has some information on Cactus Canyon.
===========
Game play #1
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=898537470804041Added 10 months ago: I am no longer able to update this post. See the opening post for the most current information.
Quoted from srmonte:That's why I'm asking questions. To try to know something.
Nice lol, you really are an upgrade from JFH. You sure told me.
Dude it’s the blind leading the blind here, present company included. Why ask questions to a bunch a frustrated peeps that know nothing as well.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Dude it’s the blind leading the blind here, present company included. Why ask questions to a bunch a frustrated peeps that know nothing as well.
I haven't, I have been asking Doug and cgc. But all of the cgc sympathizers endorse their shotty communication. And yet we are all surprised knowing nothing.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Exactly! This is not new and no change from their prior behaviour. It’s a long established pattern at this point with CGC.
What’s shocking and surprising is that folks are still….. shocked and surprised by this.
Yes but you would hope and figure they would improve like all industry does when the same issues occur. The fact that it’s an established piss poor record on this is sad. The fact theirs apologists for it is worse.
Quoted from DaddyManD:Sorry I mistakenly thought this was the CCr owners thread where folks come together to exchange knowledge about the game, fixes, tips, pics (and sometimes a little frustration).
They have. What else would you like to know that hasn’t already been said? When the rest of us get our game the discussion will increase exponentially. I can’t help you with the pin I don’t have...
Quoted from thekaiser82:Once games start pumping out again it will turn around. Go back in the thread a few weeks and see how positive it was when those first 50 games where shipping. Then when they stopped people got antsy, which is understandable.
Correct.
Quoted from Hayfarmer:I laugh at all the posts, good and bad.
Indeed. Doesn’t need to be taken or directed so personally. All of my comments/memes are directed at CGC. This is pinball, don’t take it so seriously. The only ones with skin in the game are the buyer’s and the seller’s. The rest shouldn’t get so involved or worked up. If you don’t like what’s being said nobody is forcing you to be here or simply scan the posts and move on. Why let it affect you so much?
Quoted from moonraker:Yes but you would hope and figure they would improve like all industry does when the same issues occur. The fact that it’s an established piss poor record on this is sad. The fact theirs apologists for it is worse.
Dude mic drop!!! X1000!!!! This Dude gets it
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:THIS THREAD
Shut her down ... Best result for all !
Quoted from transprtr4u:Shut her down ... Best result for all !
Venkman: “Shut that thing down and we are not going to be held responsible for whatever happens. Don’t shut it off, I’m warning you...”
Peck: “I’m not interested in your opinion, just shut it off!”
LOL so perfect.
With pinball nowadays you must learn patience. I ordered an Elvira premium in July of 2021, still waiting, ordered a CCr LE last year when they came out. Still waiting. I will say Kudo’s to Stern on my Bond LE which I ordered release day and was told December and my game arrived last week, in December as promised, so Stern apparently can keep some of their promises some of the time. Although the code is a bit rough at the moment. I still think the CCr LE will be worth the wait, no sense complaining about something I can’t control. It’s only a pinball machine after all , not some life or death medicine or medical device.
Quoted from MachineGunGuy:With pinball nowadays you must learn patience. I ordered an Elvira premium in July of 2021, still waiting, ordered a CCr LE last year when they came out. Still waiting. I will say Kudo’s to Stern on my Bond LE which I ordered release day and was told December and my game arrived last week, in December as promised, so Stern apparently can keep some of their promises some of the time. Although the code is a bit rough at the moment. I still think the CCr LE will be worth the wait, no sense complaining about something I can’t control. It’s only a pinball machine after all , not some life or death medicine or medical device.
Some here seem to think it's life or death 
Wait so it’s a dumpster fire and close down the thread bec people want their games? We would all much rather be talking about game mods, tricks, gameplay ect if CGC did what they said and was and had a normal business model. So direct that toward CGC not buyers left twisting in the wind that’s crazy. All CGCs fault self inflicted end of story. We can and will say whatever we want to and they deserve it all.
Quoted from Pinbalz:Just ordered a SE NIB. Looking forward to it.
Congratulations. Please select SE in the poll in the first post if you haven’t done so already.
I was pissed at the 7 month wait for my MBrLE. Twice that wait time with nearly $4k more in cost, I think I would be apoplectic. I mean, at this point one starts calling in the dogs, because clearly someone at CGC knows what is wrong, and clearly they have "their" reason for not communicating it. BUT- I'm sure there is more than a handful of waiting LE buyers who would love to know the answer too, so not just the why is it late but why do you think NOT letting customers know is in CGC'S best interest?
Quoted from DaddyManD:for those waiting for LEs, you won’t be disappointed with waiting for a well built high quality and super fun game.
Agreed 100%. Unfortunately I am unable to bask in this glorious wait as I wasn’t able to secure an LE. But I will gladly take on the wait for ANY future LE owner. And I’ll pay you for it…at msrp. You may even be able to convince me to pay you $200 extra so that you dont have to wait so impatiently for a game to ship or cgc to give you an update. I will bask in the silence knowing I have one of the highest quality manufactured games coming at a crazy awesome price.
This was a main reason I went with CGC CCr. Stern and JJP cost have gone off the rocker. The funny thing is, the build of CGC games appear better to me as well. I look forward to my game arriving and supporting CGC in the future.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:I really appreciate that CGC has kept these affordable compared to competitors. There is more packed into this then a JJP Toy Story LE and the price is almost 3k apart for the SE+.
I am on the list for an SE+ and the upside that I see for me is that by the time they get to my machine they are going to have all the problems they have been finding over the months corrected. I will wait as long as it takes to get a perfect game over receiving a game with defects that have to be corrected later.
The waiting would be more tolerable with an end point in sight. Like thank you CGC LE customers for waiting we had some issues with parts or mech design. We are working as fast as we can and next batch should be shipping insert date. We appreciate your business and will keep you in the loop. Instead of insert tumble weed
Quoted from Bublehead:I'm sure there is more than a handful of waiting LE buyers who would love to know the answer too, so not just the why is it late but why do you think NOT letting customers know is in CGC'S best interest?
Of course. But we already know the answer to this. I’ve posted this before but when I asked about this is when he told me it simply wasn’t worth the time drain and extra work that resulted from doing so (before we got into the Pinside specific discussion). Look at what happened when we got the November date. I had the impression he really didn’t want to give that date. Everyone cheered at first. Then everyone wanted more and people were calling about their specific games. We see a small batch go out and then the current situation, whatever it is. So clearly a false start.
Would he have been better off not giving us the date? I don’t know but he gambled and lost and he’s now probably worse off than before. Everyone is always “Yeh, but it’s so easy to just tell us what’s going on”. I was there once too. But there’s always a small group that is never satisfied with what we do get that seems to turn off the spigot for everyone.
I’m now firmly in the camp that says “don’t do anything that will take time away from delivering the best game possible” despite, like everyone else here, wanting to know the details of what happened. Am I skeptical that it costs as much time to deal with the fallout as he said? Yes (again, the how hard can it be? argument). But he’s the only one that knows the impact so we pretty much have to assume he knows what he’s doing whether we like or agree with it.
Quoted from moonraker:The waiting would be more tolerable with an end point in sight. Like thank you CGC LE customers for waiting we had some issues with parts or mech design. We are working as fast as we can and next batch should be shipping insert date. We appreciate your business and will keep you in the loop. Instead of insert tumble weed
Totally agree. Too bad their communication fucking sucks!!
Quoted from jfh:I’m now firmly in the camp that says “don’t do anything that will take time away from delivering the best game possible” despite, like everyone else here, wanting to know the details of what happened. Am I skeptical that it costs as much time to deal with the fallout as he said? Yes (again, the how hard can it be? argument). But he’s the only one that knows the impact so we pretty much have to assume he knows what he’s doing whether we like or agree with it.
Am I reading this right? So you’re suggesting that pinside is causing CGC delays?
Quoted from jfh:I’m now firmly in the camp that says “don’t do anything that will take time away from delivering the best game possible
GIF so good used it twice .
200w.gifI've read every post on this thread after ordering my LE.
My first (and only) comment is this:
If I'm at a restaurant and the kitchen drops my steak on the floor JUST TELL ME. I'm happy to wait an extra half hour to get served. But if the response is to just keep the waiter (or waitress) from letting me know what's going on I'll surely get frustrated as I sit waiting... and waiting...
You can use the same analogy if you're waiting for your car to come out of service, sitting in a doctor's waiting room or at an airport terminal during a flight delay. Just communicate and I can decide if I want to come back later or wait "just one more minute". It's been said over and over on this thread - communication is 80% of customer service. And it's so easy! Am I happy to wait? Yes, I love my AFMr and its build quality is the best in pinball. Am I happy that I've passed on other games during the last year thinking that my game could ship at any time? No. I could have bought and sold several machines along the way while happily waiting.
But I was actually shocked to hear that the reason no one knows anything is because CGC doesn't like Pinside. How can you let your patrons know you dropped their steak if the kitchen staff doesn't like the dining area (where all its customers seem to be located)? If that's the case you should have at least one other means of communicating to your loyal customers. By all means, at least tell the waitress (or distributor in this case) so they can inform the customer.
And let the spinning start ... now.
I can't wait to hear how unreasonable I am.
Quoted from EStroh:I've read every post on this thread after ordering my LE.
My first (and only) comment is this:
If I'm at a restaurant and the kitchen drops my steak on the floor JUST TELL ME. I'm happy to wait an extra half hour to get served. But if the response is to just keep the waiter (or waitress) from letting me know what's going on I'll surely get frustrated as I sit waiting... and waiting...
You can use the same analogy if you're waiting for your car to come out of service, sitting in a doctor's waiting room or at an airport terminal during a flight delay. Just communicate and I can decide if I want to come back later or wait "just one more minute". It's been said over and over on this thread - communication is 80% of customer service. And it's so easy! Am I happy to wait? Yes, I love my AFMr and its build quality is the best in pinball. Am I happy that I've passed on other games during the last year thinking that my game could ship at any time? No. I could have bought and sold several machines along the way while happily waiting.
But I was actually shocked to hear that the reason no one knows anything is because CGC doesn't like Pinside. How can you let your patrons know you dropped their steak if the kitchen staff doesn't like the dining area (where all its customers seem to be located)? If that's the case you should have at least one other means of communicating to your loyal customers. By all means, at least tell the waitress (or distributor in this case) so they can inform the customer.
And let the spinning start ... now.
I can't wait to hear how unreasonable I am.
CGC doesn’t like Pinside … they must not like their distributors too much either then or they could just communicate with them and leave Pinside out of it.
Quoted from jfh:But we already know the answer to this.
No, “We” do not. Nobody , -NOT EVEN THE BEST MARKETEER- can spin the lack of communication from a vendor who is late on delivery as a positive. FULL STOP
Let’s look at this from a completely different perspective.
Hypothetically-
“I am a entertainment entrepreneur” trying to build my Barcade business. I put in an order for a brand new, right out of the box, retro as all get out, CCrLE to place in my establishment.
I commit the expense to my bottom line, call my distributor and place an order, giving my business credit card to cover the deposit. I now wait for what last time ended up being 7 months for delivery… or at least that is my expectation from my prior CGC purchase. Now I’m expecting to wait at least that long, maybe a little longer, but I have a tournament coming up next year so I advertised that we would have CCrLE at the event… this event is scheduled 12 months from now so I figure it will be far enough out that any delivery delay would be inconvenient but I should be ok.
Now when my event rolls around, 12 months later, I call up my distributor, “hey where is my machine? It’s been 12 months, I got a tournament this weekend and I have advertised that CCrLE would be in the lineup, and yet nothing from you or CGC for weeks?!? Months?!?
My distributor shrugs his shoulders so loud I can hear it across the phone line. “Well I asked them what the delay is but I’ve heard nothing from them”.
End Hypothetical
Ok, @jfh, Please spin this scenario so that, just exactly how was it in CGC’s best interest, if trying to keep my business going forward, how in any universe this is the “best plan of action” by CGC towards its customers and distributors?
I’ll wait….
Quoted from pch3727:It gets tough to know what you’re saying when you spin your narrative so many different ways.
Disingenuous.
My narrative has been pretty damn consistent.
Ryan told me that providing what we all think as simple details invariably and consistently leads him to spend more time dealing with calls and concerns from people who just want to know about the impact to THEIR game because for whatever reason the information is not good enough. It is disappointing that happens but isn’t that hard a concept to grasp.
And a key point that a small handful just don’t seem to get - because we get stuck in this loop - is that, no matter how easy you think it is, CGC has made a business decision that the cost (presumably time) outweighs the benefit. Many here emphatically disagree. And that’s fine. But nothing is going to change unless CGC perceives business value to changing.
Quoted from Bublehead:NOT EVEN THE BEST MARKETEER- can spin the lack of communication from a vendor who is late on delivery as a positive.
Agree 100%
But the key point is “who is late on delivery”. A number of people keep harping on “CGC has missed deadlines or multiple deadlines” yet they haven’t missed a single one. NO ONE who placed an order got a confirmed delivery date and CGC has NEVER said everyone will get their game by x date.
Quoted from Bublehead:Let’s look at this from a completely different perspective.
The Barcade owner in your hypothetical is not a very good businessman making such plans without a promised delivery date. As for his assumptions - Past performance does not guarantee future results.
As far as I know every CCr customer who got a delivery date after receiving full payment had their game delivered within the window (with one notable exception)
Oudelande
Quoted from Mrsiyufy:CGC doesn’t like Pinside … they must not like their distributors too much either then or they could just communicate with them and leave Pinside out of it.
Okay, but there are several other ways to communicate. Just a message on their website or Facebook to inform people what's going on. Try to keep your customers informed, I think that's one of the core tasks of a company.
Quoted from jfh:making such plans without a promised delivery
Ha ha ha… this is classic. Any business owner would probably agree with me, a 1 year lead time expectation is not UNREASONABLE and taking an order for a product with a year plus lead time WITHOUT ANY COMMUNICATION of the lead time being that long, that unpredictable, or that unprofessional is not what one expects from a reputable entertainment vendor. Because clearly, by every business standard I’ve worked under, it has always been in a company’s best interest to go silent when they are in trouble, no mater if the issue is just a delay in shipped parts or a complete technical rework of a component. 
I stand on my first statement-
Nobody , -NOT EVEN THE BEST MARKETEER- can spin the lack of communication from a vendor who is late on delivery as a positive. FULL STOP
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
