Prescott, WI
Quoted from flynnibus:Look how fast PPS appears when it’s a topic they want to face…
Or have information on. LOL nice try though.
(Topic ID: 310125)
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Cactus Canyon (Remake - LE)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021-
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Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
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Quoted from flynnibus:I call bullshit on that story. Not only is PPS their customer… they are the gatekeeper for all their future remake deals. Do you really believe doug would not even take Rick’s call? No way
Now not give them a date they don’t want to repeat… i can see… or non commital… i can buy. Rick can’t even get a call back?? I don’t buy it
I think they were feeding you a tale
You are way, way off. Just saying. I mean way more than off. Not even close to accurate. Just want you to know that. I sent the email, so I know you are wrong.
[email protected]
Quoted from jchristian11:It’s amazing how much water you attempt to carry for them.
When they are victims of over the top reckless speculation thrown out without thought just trying to get people pissed, I’ll carry a bucket or two. 
I was on the fence and passed on an LE no regrets after seeing what you’re all going through, that said I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on an SE.
Quoted from Xfilelover:You are way, way off. Just saying. I mean way more than off. Not even close to accurate. Just want you to know that. I sent the email, so I know you are wrong.
[email protected]
Funny… both doug and rick love throwing their cell phone numbers around daring those who want the direct answer to call them. You’re saying your boss can’t get through to CGC leadership?
Or are you telling customers a retelling after not getting an email response without actually escalating beyond an email?
Quoted from JohnTTwo:Or have information on. LOL nice try though.
Buhaha… this isn’t the first rodeo.
Quoted from Jeffster:Email received today from PPS said no update on tracking. And they reported that their messages to CGC go unanswered. WTF? PPS is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to be CGC's largest customer and they don't even respond to them? Not even sure I want this now.....what's going to happen if/when we need repairs if we ever do get the game? Strange behavior indeed and has me concerned about their corporate viability. Something is not right here....
This email that was sent, also stated that we at PPS are 100% confident in CGC and that you will get your game really soon and we were just waiting on tracking, so I just want to clarify as it wasn't a super accurate description of the email I sent earlier. It was close though . Since we didn't have a direct update from CGC, I couldn't put one in the email and I was honest and told everyone to please be patient and wait and you will get your game really soon, as we are absolutely confident in CGC. Thank you all,
Sara
Enjoying my SE...I suggest pushing the 'cool jets' button on one of your other machines; let what happens, happen, and continue to enjoy the hobby..otherwise, what's the point. At least the LE/SE+ owners aren't tied into a private sale. IT WILL HAPPEN BOYZZZ. LIFE IS SHORT.
Appreciate both Sara and Rick hopping in and engaging in the chat, we all know you don’t need to. At this point it’s frustrating for all of us, but so glad to hear there’s still a high level of confidence in CGC delivering (hopefully sooner rather than later!). Most of us are pretty excited about the machine still, just disappointed CGC has been so quiet. Which has led to pretty regular reminders of just how long it’s been, and how much better it would be if CGC would just communicate openly. Thanks again for commenting.
Quoted from Sluggo39:I was on the fence and passed on an LE no regrets after seeing what you’re all going through, that said I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on an SE.
I personally haven't "gone through" anything. I placed my deposit, because I want the game. I paid for the rest of the sale price when asked for it, because I want the game. Now I am patiently waiting for my game to ship while going on with the rest of my life, you guessed it, because I want the game. I have quite a few cares in the world, pinball ship times just isn't one of them.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:I personally haven't "gone through" anything. I placed my deposit, because I want the game. I paid for the rest of the sale price when asked for it, because I want the game. Now I am patiently waiting for my game to ship while going on with the rest of my life, you guessed it, because I want the game. I have quite a few cares in the world, pinball ship times just isn't one of them.
I agree with you 100%. Have bigger issues to deal with than when our game ships, happier if it's sooner, but I have no control on that.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:I personally haven't "gone through" anything. I placed my deposit, because I want the game. I paid for the rest of the sale price when asked for it, because I want the game. Now I am patiently waiting for my game to ship while going on with the rest of my life, you guessed it, because I want the game. I have quite a few cares in the world, pinball ship times just isn't one of them.
Waiting for a year or more is what I’m referring too, the hype dies down and the patience runs thin. I wish the manufacturers would be ready to ship when the announcement of the title is released.
Quoted from kse001:On the topic of the mirrored backglass, mine arrived on Saturday. Can anyone tell me what the rather large circular mirrored area to the left of the Youssi signature is I’m having trouble figuring out why it’s there - it looks really out of place to me.
I think it looks like the moon reflection in the puddle ? If that’s what your talking about
Saskatoon, SK
This thread has just turned soooo negative. We all expect CGC to have delays (yah this is a long one) but we know they will deliver top quality stuff.
We are buying non essential TOYS, and in theory are all grown adults. The anger and frustration blows my mind! Not happy on your LE purchase back out, someone will step in.
Just stop, open one of your EM coin doors and take a deep breath!! Thats why we are here!
Quoted from toasterman04:This thread has just turned soooo negative. We all expect CGC to have delays (yah this is a long one) but we know they will deliver top quality stuff.
We are buying non essential TOYS, and in theory are all grown adults. The anger and frustration blows my mind! Not happy on your LE purchase back out, someone will step in.
Just stop, open one of your EM coin doors and take a deep breath!! Thats why we are here!
Honestly, I’m confused. Since when did asking questions or having an expectation for an established company become negative? 
It has been a year…there has been no communication…we’re all asking questions and disappointed. The ‘we all expect delays’ messaging is wearing thin. It’s like the relative or friend who’s a jerk, but ‘that’s just the way they are’. That doesn’t make it ok. Just communicate openly, let us know what to expect, and we won’t be left to try and come to conclusions on our own and more importantly, we won’t be left wondering and disappointed. It’s not asking for much, and I definitely don’t see it as negative. We’re only anxious, because we all are excited to add the machine to our collections. 
Quoted from ClassicHornet:Man, you guys kill me. I hope CGC takes as long as they like bc I don’t give a fuck, I have a life outside of pinball; my kids didn’t act as bad as some of you turds ( you know who you are ) oh where’s my game, breaking rules, violations, they said she said he said, red flags blah fucken blah; you whingers just ruin everyone else’s excitement, I’ve never experienced so many fucken know it alls in one place.
Some just venting, some trying to stir up trouble, most are meh.
Thread is average for any product rollout delay. Nothing else to it.
Quoted from Sluggo39:Waiting for a year or more is what I’m referring too, the hype dies down and the patience runs thin. I wish the manufacturers would be ready to ship when the announcement of the title is released.
I bought an LE because I just want a really nice CC. I can wait. Ive managed to avoid playing the CC remakes at shows, friends, and at locations, so the game will still be a brand new experience for me. I believe I’m pretty much at the very end of the LE list, so I most likely won’t see mine until well into 2023.
Im not sure how it matters that ‘the hype has died down’. I guess this means that I won’t be able to stir up quite as much jealousy in other pinsiders by showing-off the unboxing of my LE. Darn….guess I didn’t think it through. Now maybe I will consider selling my spot.
Quoted from ClassicHornet:I think it looks like the moon reflection in the puddle ? If that’s what your talking about
Yes that is what I was talking about. I guess I’m put off by there being nothing corresponding to that on the original art and the fact that it is just SO round when compared to the other puddles. I think it looks very “off” and really detracts from the product for me, but I guess maybe it’s just my issue. I’ll wait and see how it looks when installed when the games finally ship.
Quoted from flynnibus:Funny… both doug and rick love throwing their cell phone numbers around daring those who want the direct answer to call them. You’re saying your boss can’t get through to CGC leadership?
Or are you telling customers a retelling after not getting an email response without actually escalating beyond an email?
It’s glaring you have a ax to grind LOL
Look at the big picture the games they bring at the price. No other manufacturer is close.
Bond LE verses CC LE pricewise.
I am actually happy they took my order a year ago.
Are they raising prices like the others?
Is your TS still killing it on location?
Quoted from Sluggo39:Waiting for a year or more is what I’m referring too, the hype dies down and the patience runs thin. I wish the manufacturers would be ready to ship when the announcement of the title is released.
I just waited 11-1/2 months to get my GZ Premium. This is now the norm so everyone better get used to it.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:I personally haven't "gone through" anything. I placed my deposit, because I want the game. I paid for the rest of the sale price when asked for it, because I want the game. Now I am patiently waiting for my game to ship while going on with the rest of my life, you guessed it, because I want the game. I have quite a few cares in the world, pinball ship times just isn't one of them.
I agree!
I could see this being much more of an issue for a first time machine buyer who has nothing else to play while waiting.
Quoted from jfh:When they are victims of over the top reckless speculation thrown out without thought just trying to get people pissed, I’ll carry a bucket or two.
LOL, reckless speculation...
everything has been delayed !
the problem here is the deafening silence from CGC , compounding the the problem saying the are getting games out and then not shipping has furthered and fueled the frustration .
they should be more transparent as we are going by what they are telling us! which is pretty well nothing !
all mute because nothing will change !
we should all pity Ben Heck as he has the third pin to be released after the next 2 from CGC (rumours) so guessing 2035?
Quoted from jfh:When they are victims of over the top reckless speculation thrown out without thought just trying to get people pissed, I’ll carry a bucket or two.
They've missed every deadline they gave themselves, including telling dealers to invoice for the LEs and then not shipping within 2 weeks, that's all on CGC. Just to be clear, what "reckless speculation thrown out without thought" are you referring to?
Quoted from chillme:I heard CGC ran out of balls.
for the pin or updating customers ?
Quoted from jchristian11:Just to be clear, what "reckless speculation thrown out without thought" are you referring to?
The most recent example was the implication that CGC was having liquidity issues/going out of business.
(And, I’m not sure it was “dealers” plural. It seems to have been one batch of games. It’s not like hundreds of people were asked to pay their invoices. And there were no “deadlines”. That you took them as such is exactly why CGC doesn’t want to post here).
If Rick and Sara at PPS aren’t worried, neither am I. My game is paid in full (my choice). I don’t have it yet. I don’t know if it’s been built yet. I don’t have a ship date yet. I just checked - my house is still standing, my family is fine and I have some awesome pins I can play while I’m waiting for my LE.
Quoted from jfh:I don’t have it yet. I don’t know if it’s been built yet. I don’t have a ship date yet. I just checked - my house is still standing, my family is fine and I have some awesome pins I can play while I’m waiting for my LE.
your FAQ has been great , but the CGC is all rainbow and lollypops is a bit much !
sure we all have games to play , sure one day the games will come , was this release handled well , absolutely not !
CGC was so proud that they had games to go more than a year before the release ?
They have dropped the pinball on this release ... best example is poor Richard waiting for a game from the factory while dealers have them n stock and CCR hitting the resale market !
Quoted from Ktmat32:Honestly, I’m confused. Since when did asking questions or having an expectation for an established company become negative? It has been a year…there has been no communication…we’re all asking questions and disappointed. The ‘we all expect delays’ messaging is wearing thin. It’s like the relative or friend who’s a jerk, but ‘that’s just the way they are’. That doesn’t make it ok. Just communicate openly, let us know what to expect, and we won’t be left to try and come to conclusions on our own and more importantly, we won’t be left wondering and disappointed. It’s not asking for much, and I definitely don’t see it as negative. We’re only anxious, because we all are excited to add the machine to our collections.
Can’t argue with any of that.
The negative is that people keep harping about it constantly. CGC reads every post. They clearly made a conscious decision not to post here (with a few exceptions). I don’t like that. But I understand it and have written about it before.
No matter what they say, they lose. Someone will twist it into a guarantee and make it negative. Give an estimate based on the best info they have at the time (as they have done a few times) and then something unexpected happens. Crap. Why bother if an impatient few are going to throw it in your face, say “we don’t believe you” and accuse you of all sorts of stuff?
CGC, like most manufacturers, used to post on Pinside all the time. Go back and read the AFMr forums and see the absolutely incredible status and support that they gave. And then go back and read those same threads and see why they don’t any more.
It would be terrific if Ryan and Doug were here more. But they have chosen to let their games speak for themselves in part because a small minority of keyboard Karens aren’t as rational not making it as simple as you suggest in your post.
Quoted from transprtr4u:your FAQ has been great
Thanks!
Quoted from transprtr4u:but the CGC is all rainbow and lollypops is a bit much !
Nah. Rainbow and lollipops is JJP/WOZ territory.
CGC bungled the launch and have had their share of missteps and face plants over the last year. That Richard doesn’t have his game yet seems to be some sort of incredibly almost unfathomable massive screw up. Ryan has made a number of commitments to me that haven’t happened yet and that I don’t have updates for (not related to my game). That’s incredibly disappointing. Glass half empty.
I still have faith that Doug and his team provides the best value in pinball today and goes out of his way to make exceptional games, often at great cost to his company (and schedules). If he had ditched his vision for the CCr topper games probably would have all been done months ago. But what an incredible addition to Cactus Canyon! I’m willing to wait for a great game that’s better than an original. I’m keeping it for years. Lloyd works with CGC. Butch works for CGC. Glass half full.
Quoted from jfh:Can’t argue with any of that.
The negative is that people keep harping about it constantly. CGC reads every post. They clearly made a conscious decision not to post here (with a few exceptions). I don’t like that. But I understand it and have written about it before.
No matter what they say, they lose. Someone will twist it into a guarantee and make it negative. Give an estimate based on the best info they have at the time (as they have done a few times) and then something unexpected happens. Crap. Why bother if an impatient few are going to throw it in your face, say “we don’t believe you” and accuse you of all sorts of stuff?
CGC, like most manufacturers, used to post on Pinside all the time. Go back and read the AFMr forums and see the absolutely incredible status and support that they gave. And then go back and read those same threads and see why they don’t any more.
It would be terrific if Ryan and Doug were here more. But they have chosen to let their games speak for themselves in part because a small minority of keyboard Karens aren’t as rational not making it as simple as you suggest in your post.
100% spot on!
Doug is 100% respectable!
Thanks for the awesome upcoming game at a fair price!!
Quoted from PPS:PPS is not worried, we are annoyed, but not worried.
LOL ! That made me chuckle.
Quoted from JohnTTwo:It’s glaring you have a ax to grind LOL
No - I just call BS when I see it and I don't accept fluff. Both CGC and PPS have a long history in all the categories being tossed around here... namely communications and 'selective' participation. Not sure how much you've followed the hobby.. but this is like Season 6 of the same show... same cast... same plot.
To the post... it's clear now that what the poster shared wasn't really accurate - and that's what I called out. The poster claimed
"And they reported that their messages to CGC go unanswered. WTF? PPS is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to be CGC's largest customer and they don't even respond to them?"
Key words... 'they don't even respond to them' -- to which I raised the BS flag. And what did Sara@PPS respond with?
"we were just waiting on tracking, so I just want to clarify as it wasn't a super accurate description of the email I sent earlier"
Pretty different versions of the statements eh?
Quoted from JohnTTwo:Is your TS still killing it on location?
Doing better than our CCr...
Quoted from ultimategameroom:I just waited 11-1/2 months to get my GZ Premium. This is now the norm so everyone better get used to it.
Stern didn't wait 12months to ship GZ after they launched it.
Getting your game because of production scheduling is a lot different from 'no one getting any games because they aren't making any after launching it'
Quoted from Sluggo39:I was on the fence and passed on an LE no regrets after seeing what you’re all going through, that said I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on an SE.
For what the SE offers it’s a steal in the market right now imo.
I am over the wait - just finally hit me. Been pretty patient up until this point. I put my deposit on the SE+ when my at the time GF and I were on a trip and doing great - I broke up with her early May and we were not all roses well before that so can't even remember how long that has been. At 1st I was like no biggie - gives me more time to save up so extra coins. Now I am whatever. I am a huge fan of the company build quality and support - had an AFMrle and loved it. Unless they do BBBr doubt I am going down this road again with this company as much as I like them. Wait + spotty/inaccurate communication has turned me off. Too many other used and new games out there to pick from to endure this cryptic wait.
Quoted from kse001:On the topic of the mirrored backglass, mine arrived on Saturday. Can anyone tell me what the rather large circular mirrored area to the left of the Youssi signature is supposed to represent? My initial reaction when I opened it was that I got a defective one but it seems all of the pics posted have it too. I’m having trouble figuring out why it’s there - it looks really out of place to me.
Reflective part of a muddy puddle. I wonder what it would look like without any mirroring in the puddles. I love the reflection off of Bart's tooth, reflection off the girl's locket, reflection off the shiny gun barrel, etc... stuff like that looks fantastic. Can't wait to see what my mirrored backglass looks like all lit-up!
Quoted from jfh:The most recent example was the implication that CGC was having liquidity issues/going out of business.
(And, I’m not sure it was “dealers” plural. It seems to have been one batch of games. It’s not like hundreds of people were asked to pay their invoices. And there were no “deadlines”. That you took them as such is exactly why CGC doesn’t want to post here).
If Rick snd Sara at PPS aren’t worried, neither am I. My game is paid in full (my choice). I don’t have it yet. I don’t know if it’s been built yet. I don’t have a ship date yet. I just checked - my house is still standing, my family is fine and I have some awesome pins I can play while I’m waiting for my LE.
The gaslighting continues, more than one person here was asked for full payment from distributor other than PPS and you also admitted to being asked for full payment. Did your game ship within two weeks of being asked for full payment? Seems to clearly violate CGC's own policy on request for full payment to me.
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:Reflective part of a muddy puddle. I wonder what it would look like without any mirroring in the puddles. I love the reflection off of Bart's tooth, reflection off the girl's locket, reflection off the shiny gun barrel, etc... stuff like that looks fantastic. Can't wait to see what my mirrored backglass looks like all lit-up!
Definitely a mud puddle.
Backglass (resized).jpgQuoted from jchristian11:Definitely a mud puddle.[quoted image]
So, I'm wondering on the backglass characters, is the guy on the left holding Polly one of the Barts? if so, and that's how I see it, then who are all the Barts? I see 4 Bart brothers and a Bart sister/wife/whatever, but in game there are only the 3 you fight plus Bionic Bart, right? Any chance the Lyman/Sharpe code update will have more Bart's?
These are the things that concern me.
I believe I've said this before, but I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's unboxing and set-up pics/videos. Not only because I would like the tread to turn to more positive but also give some hope to other people waiting for theirs. I for one am enjoying my CCr SE and can't wait to see the joy on others faces when they finally get their LE or SE+. One bit of advice I do have is to read the FAQ known issues. If you don't have any flupper return springs then order a few to have on hand when you do recieve your machine. This solved my drop target issue right away as I already had some on hand. Also be prepared to adjust those leaf switches for the sling by the pop bumpers. I didn't have any issues out of the box but after about 500 plays some adjustments were needed. Built quality is amazing and I'm absolutely 100% overjoyed with my SE and I play it daily.
Quoted from BorgDog:So, I'm wondering on the backglass characters, is the guy on the left holding Polly one of the Barts? if so, and that's how I see it, then who are all the Barts? I see 4 Bart brothers and a Bart sister/wife/whatever, but in game there are only the 3 you fight plus Bionic Bart, right? Any chance the Lyman/Sharpe code update will have more Bart's?
These are the things that concern me.
The baddie holding Polly in my opinion is not a Bart. I think he is a general purpose bad guy. Now the lady Bart interests me. I imagine her to be a Bart sister. I see her weapon is a whip...
Quoted from PM_Jeremy:The baddie holding Polly in my opinion is not a Bart. I think he is a general purpose bad guy. Now the lady Bart interests me. I imagine her to be a Bart sister. I see her weapon is a whip...
Josh mentioned looking for inspiration for the expanded rules from the artwork on the game. I’ll be a bit surprised if Lady Bart doesn’t show up in the new code.
Thank you 
Jeffster
Quoted from Sluggo39:I was on the fence and passed on an LE no regrets after seeing what you’re all going through, that said I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on an SE.
Last time I looked, SEs were readily available NIB. You can probably also find a barely used one below msrp. It's a great game, you can't go wrong with an SE. The only gameplay difference is the topper.
Quoted from Jeffster:Deleted post
Yeah thanks for that. I still think Sara is dancing a bit for her explanation vs what you've c/p'd. It's lame to think they can be so 'disappointed' and not yet exercise their own forms of escalation before telling customers "We continue to send messages to CGC, with no response and we just hope that the games will go out any day".
It's just fitting to see Rick's team not picking up the phone when being stonewalled after he lambasted people so many times for the same thing.
I have no doubt CGC will ship the games... just as always the journey is far more of a shitshow than it needed to be.
I outlined CGC's regular cycle 9 months ago... still playing out exactly as described...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ccr-cactus-canyon-remake-hype-thread/page/98#post-6714196
Just makes it fall in line with the standard cgc release model….
- Be a title everyone knows… but don’t acknowledge it
- delay the announcement… a lot
- give suprise prices
- delay shipping games… a lot
- say little to nothing
- eventually quietly ship games
- stop building games sooner than everyone expectsThe cgc circle of life
It’s sad and confusing… but its like clockwork. Great news is the output has been fantastic. But it’s always like they don’t NEED to ship pins…
It's been that way with AFM.. MB.. and now CC...
Doesn't matter if it's product issues or actually getting games out the door.. CGC thinks stonewalling everyone with silence is the right path. And now you even have their partner in all this basically saying they can't get answers. It's such a sad reality that we get this non-sense over and over.
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