Quoted from RobertWinter:If anyone wants a backup PC for CCC, I still have a Dell Studio Hybrid that I'd be willing to part with.
This has been sold.
(Topic ID: 20104)
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Cactus Canyon
Bally, 1998
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1 week later
Moe
Quoted from epthegeek:Roger that. I orderd a rpi4 and we'll see if I can get it set up and running. Assuming I can, I'll image the SD and post that somewhere.
Did you manage to complete this work Eric? Hoping to be able to download.
Muskego, WI
Quoted from Pinballer73:Did you manage to complete this work Eric? Hoping to be able to download.
Not yet. Compy helped me get a basic image up and running, there's just a few things left to work out. Still intend to get it going though.
Quoted from epthegeek:Not yet. Compy helped me get a basic image up and running, there's just a few things left to work out. Still intend to get it going though.
Great news, looking forward to it.
Quoted from epthegeek:Not yet. Compy helped me get a basic image up and running, there's just a few things left to work out. Still intend to get it going though.
Eric, can you please list the RPi4 specs you recommend? I'd like to have one here ready to install once you release the image. Would a RPi4 model B 8GB with a 16GB card be ok?
Reading
Quoted from Pinballer73:Eric, can you please list the RPi4 specs you recommend? I'd like to have one here ready to install once you release the image. Would a RPi4 model B 8GB with a 16GB card be ok?
I have it running on a basic RPi4 with an 8GB SD card...
ccc-pi4 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mik-ReadingUK:I have it running on a basic RPi4 with an 8GB SD card...
[quoted image]
When you say a basic RPi4, is it a model A or B board and what amount of RAM, 4 or 8GB?
Quoted from Pinballer73:When you say a basic RPi4, is it a model A or B board and what amount of RAM, 4 or 8GB?
It's a model B, 2GB ram.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:It's a model B, 2GB ram.
Thanks, much appreciated. Hoping Eric epthegeek will also comment on what specs he recommends.
Quoted from Pinballer73:Thanks, much appreciated. Hoping Eric will also comment on what specs he recommends.
Any Pi from 3 onwards should be fine. It runs well on my old Pi 3 which my Cactus Canyon has been using for 2 years now.
I had some initial difficulty with the compilation on a Pi 4 because the linux libraries had undergone a few subtle changes in the recent Raspian OS builds. I can't make it work with the very latest Raspberry Pi OS because they have dropped support for Python 2.x so maybe Eric is looking at that.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:It's a model B, 2GB ram.
Thanks, much appreciated. Hoping Eric will also comment on what specs he recommends.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:Any Pi from 3 onwards should be fine. It runs well on my old Pi 3 which my Cactus Canyon has been using for 2 years now.
I had some initial difficulty with the compilation on a Pi 4 because the linux libraries had undergone a few subtle changes in the recent Raspian OS builds. I can't make it work with the very latest Raspberry Pi OS because they have dropped support for Python 2.x so maybe Eric is looking at that.
Thanks for the detailed information. Are you able to share the image to transfer onto an SD card?
1 week later
Any work been done to make the Pi run mostly with the file systems mounted read-only? I’d think the only time they’d need to write would be high scores and any audit data? Would make needing to do anything special with the power (for clean shutdowns) unnecessary, which would be nice.
Pretty cool that a Zero is enough horsepower for this, too.
—Donnie
Quoted from djb_rh:Any work been done to make the Pi run mostly with the file systems mounted read-only? I’d think the only time they’d need to write would be high scores and any audit data? Would make needing to do anything special with the power (for clean shutdowns) unnecessary, which would be nice.
Pretty cool that a Zero is enough horsepower for this, too.
—Donnie
Good point re the shutdown thing - I looked into having my Pi 3 shut down cleanly when the game is turned off but I never got round to it, and it's been running for 2 or 3 years without any problems despite the game being turned on and off several times a week. Probably more important for those running a box PC, especially if it's windows I guess.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:A comedian I admire (fellow brit Richard Ayoade) was in a movie I've never actually seen, but the trailer is quite interesting... Cowboys V Aliens ?
The trailer for that movie was the seed in my brain that grew into cowboys vs aliens in the game.
2 months later
Helsinki
I need to check my audio wiring from you all CCC-users as when I listen to the audio on the backbox's
speakers, it seems that left speaker functions ok, but the audio on the right speaker is very low if not non-existent.
In my setup the audio comes from the computer's headphone audio to a groundloop isolator and
from there to the amplifier. From the amplifier's R+ and R- output the audio goes to the left speaker
on the speaker panel at the backbox and from amplier's "Super Bass" connector the audio goes to
the subwoofer inside the cabinet. I have not connected the amplifier's L+ and L- to anywhere.
The left and right speaker on the speaker panel are connected together as they originally were.
Please tell me how to correct this so that I could get sound also from the right speaker. Maybe
the fault is that the amplifier is not directly connected to the right speaker on the speaker panel?
Please see the pics. Thank you for any help!
IMG_2392 (resized).jpgIMG_2393 (resized).jpgIMG_2396 (resized).jpgQuoted from Nepi23:I need to check my audio wiring from you all CCC-users as when I listen to the audio on the backbox's
speakers, it seems that left speaker functions ok, but the audio on the right speaker is very low if not non-existent.
In my setup the audio comes from the computer's headphone audio to a groundloop isolator and
from there to the amplifier. From the amplifier's R+ and R- output the audio goes to the left speaker
on the speaker panel at the backbox and from amplier's "Super Bass" connector the audio goes to
the subwoofer inside the cabinet. I have not connected the amplifier's L+ and L- to anywhere.
The left and right speaker on the speaker panel are connected together as they originally were.
Please tell me how to correct this so that I could get sound also from the right speaker. Maybe
the fault is that the amplifier is not directly connected to the right speaker on the speaker panel?
Please see the pics. Thank you for any help!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
It's hard to see what might be wrong, though you may have a bad connection around the right speaker. The first thing I did when I installed the CCC system was to put in better speakers as a stereo pair since that is what the amplifier provides (even if the sound samples are mono). I have since remixed some of the music into stereo tracks. It's a cheap and worthwhile upgrade in my opinion. Also upgrade your cabinet speaker with a subwoofer 
Quoted from zr11990:I haven’t updated my game in years. I have forgotten how to do it. Can someone tell me what I need to do.
Not sure where you are starting from, but if you want to go the Raspberry Pi route, drop me a PM and I'll be happy to help...
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:Not sure where you are starting from, but if you want to go the Raspberry Pi route, drop me a PM and I'll be happy to help...
I have the computer I just need to update the code.
Quoted from zr11990:I have the computer I just need to update the code.
The last update on https://soldmy.org/pin/ccc is from May 2018 - I haven't used the original Windows install procedure for several years so hopefully someone else on here can help you with that, but there is guidance on the install at the beginning of this thread. I think the old P-Roc forum stuff has disappeared since pinballcontrollers.com redirects to the Multimorphic site without the forum (and there isn't much on the wayback machine either it seems).
mike.
He will need to contact Eric for the 2019 changes to the dmd/audio assets.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:The last update on https://soldmy.org/pin/ccc is from May 2018 - I haven't used the original Windows install procedure for several years so hopefully someone else on here can help you with that, but there is guidance on the install at the beginning of this thread. I think the old P-Roc forum stuff has disappeared since pinballcontrollers.com redirects to the Multimorphic site without the forum (and there isn't much on the wayback machine either it seems).
mike.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:He will need to contact Eric for the 2019 changes to the dmd/audio assets.
What were those changes?
1 week later
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:It's hard to see what might be wrong, though you may have a bad connection around the right speaker. The first thing I did when I installed the CCC system was to put in better speakers as a stereo pair since that is what the amplifier provides (even if the sound samples are mono). I have since remixed some of the music into stereo tracks. It's a cheap and worthwhile upgrade in my opinion. Also upgrade your cabinet speaker with a subwoofer
I got a Pinsound speaker kit and replaced the old speakers, but replacing the speakers did not remove that static that I get before the game starts and which is there for a brief moment after the PC has shut down. It's non-existent when the CCC-program has started. I have a groundloop isolator that I have placed after the PC's headphone output and before the amplifier, but it does not seem to help.
How could I get rid of it? Strange issue, thanks for any help!
Quoted from Nepi23:I got a Pinsound speaker kit and replaced the old speakers, but replacing the speakers did not remove that static that I get before the game starts and which is there for a brief moment after the PC has shut down. It's non-existent when the CCC-program has started. I have a groundloop isolator that I have placed after the PC's headphone output and before the amplifier, but it does not seem to help.
How could I get rid of it? Strange issue, thanks for any help!
I would guess that your PC's audio output stage has some issues - maybe a leaky capacitor or noisy amplifier stage. PC sound can be problematic on older machines... I gave up trying to digitize my cassettes with my PC's line input but got much better results with a USB audio interface. Maybe time to get that Raspberry Pi up and running 
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:I would guess that your PC's audio output stage has some issues - maybe a leaky capacitor or noisy amplifier stage. PC sound can be problematic on older machines... I gave up trying to digitize my cassettes with my PC's line input but got much better results with a USB audio interface. Maybe time to get that Raspberry Pi up and running
Maybe this is the reason why I see the ground loop isolators on WPC-95 machines' loudspeaker cables. On the other hand, this is not a constant static, but happens only before and after the CCC-program has started. Maybe its because I have the PC on a master/slave power outlet as a master and slaves are the Lepy 838 amplifier and the LCD-monitor (?)
I will need to experiment with the Raspberry Pi for sure at some point!
3 weeks later
Quoted from MightyGrave:has someone an image or can help me to install a fresh version on a Raspberry Pi3b ?
I'll PM you...
3 weeks later
So I got a working RPi4 image from @borygard, which was Mik-ReadingUK 's image.
ANYWAY .. it was working semi decent from the start, but not 100% drop in and use. It did have the color-display correction compiled in, which is fantastic. There were just 4 issues with it.
1 - As received it wouldn't drive the actual game because it ran in "FakePinProc" mode which is used for testing without a PROC board. That's a simple tweak to a config file though.
2 - Audio from the 3.5mm jack wasn't working on first boot - but if I'd log in as the pi user and then run the game it would work. So I changed the system setup from running it without a user login to having the pi user log in and then run the game with it's own .bashrc -- this worked for my setup (RPI4b) but not on Borygard 's - but he's using the PBL LCD which lets him grab the audio out at the display via the HDMI connection, either option is fine but I'm not sure why the 3.5mm didn't work for him.
3 - The video came up in the default resolution of the LCD. Ideally it should run 1280x720 to cut down the rendering overhead and make it fit nicely in the DMD window. I set the HDMI mode to get that using the right resolution.
4 - The video display wasn't able to be positioned with the in-game settings for aligning it with the DMD window. I actually wrote some new display handling to make this work and added a "windowless = True" flag to the config file, so now the 'Y Offset' setting can move the Dot display up and down, and it's still only 'drawing' the 1280x320 needed for the DMD instead of the whole screen every frame.
I've got it running on my gear with a LCD setup I built myself with parts from Ebay, Borygard is running it via the Pinball Life "Homebrew Display" that they sell and it works on either one.
It doesn't have everything in a 'read only' partition except for the settings/data like I would prefer - but it does work, and should just be a "put this image on an SD card and go" with no extra messing around.
If anybody would like that image, just let me know.
Quoted from epthegeek:So I got a working RPi4 image from Borygard, which was Mik-ReadingUK 's image.
ANYWAY .. it was working semi decent from the start, but not 100% drop in and use. It did have the color-display correction compiled in, which is fantastic. There were just 4 issues with it.
1 - As received it wouldn't drive the actual game because it ran in "FakePinProc" mode which is used for testing without a PROC board. That's a simple tweak to a config file though.
2 - Audio from the 3.5mm jack wasn't working on first boot - but if I'd log in as the pi user and then run the game it would work. So I changed the system setup from running it without a user login to having the pi user log in and then run the game with it's own .bashrc -- this worked for my setup (RPI4b) but not on Borygard 's - but he's using the PBL LCD which lets him grab the audio out at the display via the HDMI connection, either option is fine but I'm not sure why the 3.5mm didn't work for him.
3 - The video came up in the default resolution of the LCD. Ideally it should run 1280x720 to cut down the rendering overhead and make it fit nicely in the DMD window. I set the HDMI mode to get that using the right resolution.
4 - The video display wasn't able to be positioned with the in-game settings for aligning it with the DMD window. I actually wrote some new display handling to make this work and added a "windowless = True" flag to the config file, so now the 'Y Offset' setting can move the Dot display up and down, and it's still only 'drawing' the 1280x320 needed for the DMD instead of the whole screen every frame.
I've got it running on my gear with a LCD setup I built myself with parts from Ebay, Borygard is running it via the Pinball Life "Homebrew Display" that they sell and it works on either one.
It doesn't have everything in a 'read only' partition except for the settings/data like I would prefer - but it does work, and should just be a "put this image on an SD card and go" with no extra messing around.
If anybody would like that image, just let me know.
Thank you Eric!
Quoted from epthegeek:So I got a working RPi4 image from Borygard, which was Mik-ReadingUK 's image.
ANYWAY .. it was working semi decent from the start, but not 100% drop in and use. It did have the color-display correction compiled in, which is fantastic. There were just 4 issues with it.
1 - As received it wouldn't drive the actual game because it ran in "FakePinProc" mode which is used for testing without a PROC board. That's a simple tweak to a config file though.
2 - Audio from the 3.5mm jack wasn't working on first boot - but if I'd log in as the pi user and then run the game it would work. So I changed the system setup from running it without a user login to having the pi user log in and then run the game with it's own .bashrc -- this worked for my setup (RPI4b) but not on Borygard 's - but he's using the PBL LCD which lets him grab the audio out at the display via the HDMI connection, either option is fine but I'm not sure why the 3.5mm didn't work for him.
3 - The video came up in the default resolution of the LCD. Ideally it should run 1280x720 to cut down the rendering overhead and make it fit nicely in the DMD window. I set the HDMI mode to get that using the right resolution.
4 - The video display wasn't able to be positioned with the in-game settings for aligning it with the DMD window. I actually wrote some new display handling to make this work and added a "windowless = True" flag to the config file, so now the 'Y Offset' setting can move the Dot display up and down, and it's still only 'drawing' the 1280x320 needed for the DMD instead of the whole screen every frame.
I've got it running on my gear with a LCD setup I built myself with parts from Ebay, Borygard is running it via the Pinball Life "Homebrew Display" that they sell and it works on either one.
It doesn't have everything in a 'read only' partition except for the settings/data like I would prefer - but it does work, and should just be a "put this image on an SD card and go" with no extra messing around.
If anybody would like that image, just let me know.
1. I did it that way so people with no experience with the Raspberry Pi would have a better chance of getting something going first, then I would just tell them how to comment out the fakepinproc line
2. I had similar issues with the audio on the Pi4 but it seemed ok on the Pi3. I had to fiddle about a bit with the alsa config but I thought I had it sorted for the image file... I'll take another look at it.
3. I was using an old Acer LCD which is now expiring - People may need to check the HDMI config stuff on the RPi website which gives lots of mode data for /boot/config.txt. I'm playing around with an ultrawide display at the moment which has a 5-1 aspect ratio (pics below).
4. Yes, I noticed this but the output was centered on my display so hadn't done anything about it. Glad you have it gripped Eric, and also the Read-only stuff which hasn't been a problem for the time I've been running on the Pi but seems like a sensible precaution.
I'll refer the enquiries I get to Eric from now on but if anyone wants the script I use to compile from scratch on the Pi, let me know. It pulls the github code and compiles it with the libpinproc library to end up with a working image.
By the way, if anyone knows how to upscale dmd dots, please get in touch
mike.
cactus-polly (resized).jpgJust to be clear, I certainly wasn’t trying to put down the effort thus far — rather, big (huge) thanks for getting it compiled and running as far as you did! I just wanted it to be at a point where it’s a burn the image and go. Hopefully with a Pi4, a cheap amp, and a PBL Homebrew display, this works like that and people can just buy parts and set things up themselves and I’m not stuck doing support for the rest of my life, heh.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:4. Yes, I noticed this but the output was centered on my display so hadn't done anything about it. Glad you have it gripped Eric, and also the Read-only stuff which hasn't been a problem for the time I've been running on the Pi but seems like a sensible precaution.
Centered was the problem. With a ColorDMD/PBL style mount, the LCD is lower than center so it wasn’t aligned in the window.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:By the way, if anyone knows how to upscale dmd dots, please get in touch
Upscaling won’t ever look as nice as the CGC remake, since they actually pay someone to re-draw everything from scratch. I don’t really like the ‘smoothing’ look of mashing the dots together with math personally, so I’m no help on that one.
Thanks again Mike!
Probably a dumb question... I'm using one of the shutdown controllers connected to a PC currently, would the shutdown controller still be used with the RPi?
Quoted from amxfc3s:Probably a dumb question... I'm using one of the shutdown controllers connected to a PC currently, would the shutdown controller still be used with the RPi?
If you run the RPI off the power from the driver board, no, because it would go on/off with the pin. I'm not sure if the RPI even has an "on/off" function by default.
I haven't fully switched mine over to the Pi yet (looking for friggin' mounting standoffs that fit!) but I'm going to leave the CSSC out and just use the pin power for on/off.
Quoted from epthegeek:Just to be clear, I certainly wasn’t trying to put down the effort thus far — rather, big (huge) thanks for getting it compiled and running as far as you did! I just wanted it to be at a point where it’s a burn the image and go. Hopefully with a Pi4, a cheap amp, and a PBL Homebrew display, this works like that and people can just buy parts and set things up themselves and I’m not stuck doing support for the rest of my life, heh.
Centered was the problem. With a ColorDMD/PBL style mount, the LCD is lower than center so it wasn’t aligned in the window.
Upscaling won’t ever look as nice as the CGC remake, since they actually pay someone to re-draw everything from scratch. I don’t really like the ‘smoothing’ look of mashing the dots together with math personally, so I’m no help on that one.
Thanks again Mike!
No offence taken... Glad to be a part of the great CCC project and happy to contribute my small efforts alongside the stacks of work already put in by yourself. I feel like we should be doing all we can to stand proud alongside the CGC remake (and only we have Cowboys v. Aliens!)
Quoted from amxfc3s:Probably a dumb question... I'm using one of the shutdown controllers connected to a PC currently, would the shutdown controller still be used with the RPi?
I've had a Pi3 running my Cactus for almost 2 years and never had a problem with depowering it with the rest of the game - It seems that a Pi is a very rugged little board in that respect. It should be even less likely to corrupt the SD card if the code runs in read-only mode, which Eric has suggested.
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:(and only we have Cowboys v. Aliens!)
... and Drunk Multiball ... and the super skill shot .. and marshall multiball .. and the tributes, etc.
Quoted from epthegeek:... and Drunk Multiball ... and the super skill shot .. and marshall multiball .. and the tributes, etc.
And not forgetting Betty Bart ❤️
Quoted from epthegeek:... and Drunk Multiball ... and the super skill shot .. and marshall multiball .. and the tributes, etc.
Frank and Beans too!
Quoted from bballfan:Frank and Beans too!
It's so tempting to put some Blazing Saddles quotes in to the mix... I wonder if Sheriff Bart is related to Bubba?
Quoted from Jvspin:Does anyone know how much memory I'll need with the Pi4. Also, I think my color LCD is VGA. Is an HDMI to VGA adapter all that's needed?
Not sure what the options are, but I would imagine any amount of RAM would work - the PCs I used to build I put 4gig in just because you couldn’t really get less. The Pi I’m running is 4gig also, but again, probably overkill.
The video out on the Pi4 is micro-hdmi, so you need a micro-HDMI to (something) converter. I’d stay digital if you can. If the board on your monitor has VGA and DVI I’d go : micro-hdmi to hdmi, with a HDMI to DVI cable. If you’ve only got VGA you’d be a test subject. Good luck 
Quoted from xfassa:I am thinking about giving this a go on a Pi4 (1Gig). I ordered a Pi 4 (4 Gig) a month ago for the Whirlwind kit, latest shipping estimate is June 2023!!! Oh well....I got plenty of other projects.
You might want to keep an eye on https://rpilocator.com/, though it's not looking good at the moment.
Quoted from xfassa:I am thinking about giving this a go on a Pi4 (1Gig). I ordered a Pi 4 (4 Gig) a month ago for the Whirlwind kit, latest shipping estimate is June 2023!!! Oh well....I got plenty of other projects.
Global supply issues are a Knightmare right now for lots of embedded ics, teensy 3.5 are also almost impossible to get
As for rpi 4’s 4gb always work well for me on all my python based projects, though some optimisation of graphics rendering for lcd screen use was needed (mainly video mode usage) before switching to our own led rgb boards with slave display controllers.
Worth noting that 4gb is the lowest board you’ll be able to get most likely when stock returns, the 1gb & 2gb we’re discontinued awhile back before the stock issues facing everyone started
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