(Topic ID: 20104)

... Continued - A P-ROC project for Bally's Cactus Canyon

By epthegeek

9 years ago


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There are 1500 posts in this topic. You are on page 30 of 30.
#1451 4 months ago

was playing this at a friend's house when suddenly bangarang came on. such a great game. shame cc is so expensive and rare. would love to add this game to my collection one day.

#1452 4 months ago

I don't see how you can run CCC with a DMD, since you would need to put the original WPC95 MPU back in to drive the A/V board, or am I misunderstanding something?

#1453 4 months ago
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

I don't see how you can run CCC with a DMD, since you would need to put the original WPC95 MPU back in to drive the A/V board, or am I misunderstanding something?

Thats my question... The original AV-Board is installed and the "ripped" CCC Deluxe Station from Banderas is installed with a DMD. And it worked with the version from Banderas. But now the PC is broken and i want to replace the whole thing with the orignal CCC with a new PC.... and drive it with the original DMD.... So in my mind I don't have to change the DMD or any boards - and it should work by setting the right things in the software.

#1454 4 months ago
Quoted from MightyGrave:

Thats my question... The original AV-Board is installed and the "ripped" CCC Deluxe Station from Banderas is installed with a DMD. And it worked with the version from Banderas. But now the PC is broken and i want to replace the whole thing with the orignal CCC with a new PC.... and drive it with the original DMD.... So in my mind I don't have to change the DMD or any boards - and it should work by setting the right things in the software.

Ah, ok. I had forgotten about the CCEE system, it certainly has a lot of interesting mods available since I last looked. I didn't know it could drive a DMD either. My CCC runs a on a cheap Pi3 and scavenged LCD screen

#1455 4 months ago

15 inch LCD monitors are cheap, curious why you want to revert back to the DMD and lose all those colorful animations?
You have to install a new PC anyway, install CCC and just connect the LCD to the PC and you're in business.

Quoted from MightyGrave:

Thats my question... The original AV-Board is installed and the "ripped" CCC Deluxe Station from Banderas is installed with a DMD. And it worked with the version from Banderas. But now the PC is broken and i want to replace the whole thing with the orignal CCC with a new PC.... and drive it with the original DMD.... So in my mind I don't have to change the DMD or any boards - and it should work by setting the right things in the software.

#1456 4 months ago
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

I don't see how you can run CCC with a DMD, since you would need to put the original WPC95 MPU back in to drive the A/V board, or am I misunderstanding something?

The PROC drives the DMD, not the WPC MPU board - CCC generates both signals (DMD and Computer video output) all of the time.

#1457 4 months ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

The PROC drives the DMD, not the WPC MPU board - CCC generates both signals (DMD and Computer video output) all of the time.

I probably knew that once but time has addled my memory of what the P-Roc can do... thanks Eric.

#1458 4 months ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

The PROC drives the DMD, not the WPC MPU board - CCC generates both signals (DMD and Computer video output) all of the time.

But where do the two ribbon cables from the A/V board connect on the P-roc board?

#1459 4 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

But where do the two ribbon cables from the A/V board connect on the P-roc board?

It's been forever, so I barely remember, but I think the AV board had 3 ribbon cables, two of which you don't use with the PROC, the other one was the DMD. Maybe?

#1460 4 months ago

Check out the classified archives. There are a couple CCC's with plasma DMDs installed.

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#1461 4 months ago

Right - the A/V board is needed only to power the DMD. The 14-pin ribbon cable from the DMD should plug onto the P-ROC as shown in the picture above. The P-ROC drives data to the DMD directly.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

#1462 4 months ago

When I had my CCC, it ran with the original DMD because the color lcds weren’t even a pinball thing yet. Converting to the color display was quite challenging, but Eric helped me through it. Thanks again, Eric!!! When I sold my game, it ended up going to an arcade in South Bend, Indiana. They had to take out the CCC and p-roc in order to convert it back to coin-op. I don’t even know what happened to the whole CCC system.
Howie

3 weeks later
#1463 3 months ago

Can this take quarters or is it free play only

#1464 3 months ago

free play only

Quoted from The_Pump_House:

Can this take quarters or is it free play only

2 weeks later
#1465 3 months ago

Step 2 of the install says "Installation failed". No other information is given. Any ideas what the problem is? I'm on Windows 10. I tried running it as administrator also.

3 weeks later
#1466 72 days ago

Have been wanting a CC for many years and finally got the opportunity to pick one up yesterday at a price I could justify.

The seller did not mention the game came with CCC. Of course I discovered this when I powered it up to take a look at it and was pleasantly surprised. The only bummer about it - in a way - is that the game did not come with the original CPU or AV board so if I ever wanted to put it back to stock I can't unless I locate those parts.

Anyway, since I am completely new with CC and CCC, I have several questions and I took a few pictures to show you guys what I have. Any guidance/info is greatly appreciated.

I am wondering of this is a kit from Eric himself or from somewhere else. I am not 100% sure but I believe the Shuttle mini-PC in the game is running ubuntu. I am also having an issue with the HDMI connector on the mini-PC. The cable has to have pressure on it "just-so" in order for the display to work. I have not tried another cable, but based on my previous experience with HDMI stuff I believe the issue is with the port in the PC, not the cable. Which is probably bad news for me. Is there a fix for this, or are these older Shuttle miniPCs still available somewhere?

Looks like my game is running 2016 code. I see from Eric's site there is an update, but that update seems to include code to run Eric's modified drop target set up. Should I update my game? I haven't seen a change log anywhere so I am wondering what the differences are.

While I am throwing out questions I figure I might as well as about ball traps in and around Bart's head. I am having trouble with the ball getting stuck on both sides of his head. Is my game missing something, or will this require some tweaking to correct?

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#1467 71 days ago

So some of your questions I can’t answer, but the ones I can…

First, returning the game to stock wouldn’t be hard at all. WPC95 CPUs and the AV board you need can be found fairly easily, then you’d just need to pick up a CC ROM, also no real problem. Seriously, I wouldn’t sweat that, but I also wouldn’t personally bother as CCC is so much better. I mean I kept my boards when I converted my game, but I’ve never had thoughts of returning them.

As for replacing the Shuttle, it may be possible to find an exact replacement used on eBay, but I think pretty much any small form factor PC will work. I wouldn’t sweat this part. But as for bothering, first I’d try pulling the Shuttle, popping it open, and looking at the PCB solder joints for the HDMI connector. If it works with pressure just right, then it’s probably just a bad solder joint or two, and re-flowing with a soldering iron and a tad bit of fresh solder should fix it fine.

—Donnie

#1468 71 days ago

Regarding your flaky HDMI port, if it turns out you can't fix it, you could probably use a vga to DVI cable to that display board. it looks like you have both HDMI and VGA ports on the shuttle pc. We use these sometimes when one of the other display ports is busted on our workstations.

#1469 70 days ago

Ball hangups are a drag so I just took a quick pic of my machine for comparison. Looking at it, I can't see much difference and yet I can't recall a ball getting trapped like that in the 11 years I've owned my machine. Hope this helps anyways. Maybe it's just something not bent quite right that is stopping the ball from rolling off that ledge?

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#1470 70 days ago

Here's a close up. I do see that the vertical piece of metal on the left there might not be in the same position as it in in your pic. Either that or the angle is deceiving. Also, look closely at how the curved ball guide that goes behind his head is installed, on your machine it looks like it was relocated for some reason. Good luck!
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#1471 70 days ago

I've recently been suffering with ball hangups on the Cowboy and spent some time trying to reassemble the mech to make it work better. In the end I just bent the wings up slightly so they didn't foul the metal walls below the head and the problem went away - The occasional stuck ball was cleared pretty quickly by the ball search.

I junked the PC a few years ago and my CCC is now powered by a Raspberry Pi 3.

#1472 69 days ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

Here's a close up. I do see that the vertical piece of metal on the left there might not be in the same position as it in in your pic. Either that or the angle is deceiving. Also, look closely at how the curved ball guide that goes behind his head is installed, on your machine it looks like it was relocated for some reason. Good luck!
[quoted image]

I see that now. I suppose I will have to do some disassembly and investigation to see what is going on. According to your pics it looks like the game was reassembled incorrectly.

#1473 69 days ago
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

I've recently been suffering with ball hangups on the Cowboy and spent some time trying to reassemble the mech to make it work better. In the end I just bent the wings up slightly so they didn't foul the metal walls below the head and the problem went away - The occasional stuck ball was cleared pretty quickly by the ball search.

Ok. Something is definitely wrong there. Will have to do some disassembly and take a look. Thanks for the info.

Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

I junked the PC a few years ago and my CCC is now powered by a Raspberry Pi 3.

I like that idea. Is there an easy-peasy how-to on how to accomplish this?

#1474 69 days ago
Quoted from Radius118:

I like that idea. Is there an easy-peasy how-to on how to accomplish this?

In an ideal world, someone could upload a complete SD card image that could be used. With that, it would be pretty plug and play otherwise, I think. The only local config you might want to do that I can think of would be to put your Pi on the network if you wanted to for future updates, but even that wouldn’t be *necessary* if you were just going to do updates via SD images. *shrug*

—Donnie

#1475 69 days ago

Back when I originally built the thing, I tried several single board options and none of them were up to the task. But this is years ago now. If it can run well enough to drive the LCD on an RPI4, I’d be happy to get one and set up an SD card image.

#1476 69 days ago

I have it running on a r pi3b and that's powerful enough.
Used in configuration with original dmd and external screen with colored dots.
A friend made the image, can't help with that.
But an rpi3b can handle it.

10
#1477 69 days ago

Roger that. I orderd a rpi4 and we'll see if I can get it set up and running. Assuming I can, I'll image the SD and post that somewhere.

#1478 69 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Roger that. I orderd a rpi4 and we'll see if I can get it set up and running. Assuming I can, I'll image the SD and post that somewhere.

Oh wow, that's excellent news!

#1479 69 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Roger that. I orderd a rpi4 and we'll see if I can get it set up and running. Assuming I can, I'll image the SD and post that somewhere.

Awesome! I think that will be much better than a mini-PC!

#1480 69 days ago

I will change my CCC infrastructure when this comes available! I wonder if the Danesi board would work with a RPi4 too?

#1481 68 days ago
Quoted from Nepi23:

I will change my CCC infrastructure when this comes available! I wonder if the Danesi board would work with a RPi4 too?

RPi’s aren’t really made for a power on/of switch are they? They just come on when power is applied? I’m just going to have to see what adjustments I can make to make it more robust against cutting the power. Then it can just be powered from the 5v off the power driver board.

#1482 68 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

RPi’s aren’t really made for a power on/of switch are they? They just come on when power is applied? I’m just going to have to see what adjustments I can make to make it more robust against cutting the power. Then it can just be powered from the 5v off the power driver board.

They're not made to be suddenly shutdown and the memory disk can become corrupted if you do it..

There are a few ways to gracefully let it shut down before powering off.
I've added a shutdown button to my CC and configured it.
Here it's all explained: https://www.flippers.be/rpi_shutdown.html

Online there are some scripts that do a loop/wait and see if a button is pressed and then do a shutdown, but that's not an optimal way to do it, as it's already built in the OS to listen on certain pins to trigger a shutdown.

I don't know the details but it should be possible to hook up a danesi shutdown board to it, instead of using the button like I did.

#1483 68 days ago

Scotts startup/shutdown controller doesn't work with single board computers that are less than 12v (manual says it can go down to 7v) so it won't work with any rpi (5v).

Quoted from aeneas:

They're not made to be suddenly shutdown and the memory disk can become corrupted if you do it..
There are a few ways to gracefully let it shut down before powering off.
I've added a shutdown button to my CC and configured it.
Here it's all explained: https://www.flippers.be/rpi_shutdown.html
Online there are some scripts that do a loop/wait and see if a button is pressed and then do a shutdown, but that's not an optimal way to do it, as it's already built in the OS to listen on certain pins to trigger a shutdown.
I don't know the details but it should be possible to hook up a danesi shutdown board to it, instead of using the button like I did.

#1484 68 days ago

It certainly can't be a separate button for general use - most people won't adapt to that alternate behavior to shut down safely. That's where Scott's CSSC is nice. If you power your computer solution via the always on power in the cabinet, then his board can tell the computer to shut down safely.

But it seems like with a proper setup of 'read only' partitions and proper backups of the saved game data, it seems like you should be able to make it reasonably resilient to a straight power cut. We'll see how it goes I guess.

#1485 68 days ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Scotts startup/shutdown controller doesn't work with single board computers that are less than 12v (manual says it can go down to 7v) so it won't work with any rpi (5v).

The CSSC doesn't take power from the computer. In CCC setups I power it with the 12v unregulated from the power driver board. That voltage is what tells the CSSC to do it's thing. The PC connection is just a power switch and a USB to detect if it's on/off.

#1486 68 days ago

Thanks for the correction.

Quoted from epthegeek:

The CSSC doesn't take power from the computer. In CCC setups I power it with the 12v unregulated from the power driver board. That voltage is what tells the CSSC to do it's thing. The PC connection is just a power switch and a USB to detect if it's on/off.

#1487 68 days ago

FYI, RPi’s can suck a LOT of juice. Like 3A by themselves. So be careful where you power it from. You are correct, though, that they have no integrated power switch.

But there is another way to *avoid* corruption….but it will require a little hacking. You could just keep everything mounted read-only. Maybe move the high scores and the game settings to a small partition and remount that rw when you need to update something and then back to ro when done. You can do that so fast that it’s *unlikely* someone would hit the power switch while it’s happening, anyway, and even if they did it’s a reasonably small thing to fix.

Pretty sure my machine has the CSSC, which is probably the best way to handle it. An RPi can be made to shutdown cleanly very quickly.

—Donnie

#1488 68 days ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

FYI, RPi’s can suck a LOT of juice. Like 3A by themselves. So be careful where you power it from. You are correct, though, that they have no integrated power switch.
But there is another way to *avoid* corruption….but it will require a little hacking. You could just keep everything mounted read-only. Maybe move the high scores and the game settings to a small partition and remount that rw when you need to update something and then back to ro when done. You can do that so fast that it’s *unlikely* someone would hit the power switch while it’s happening, anyway, and even if they did it’s a reasonably small thing to fix.
Pretty sure my machine has the CSSC, which is probably the best way to handle it. An RPi can be made to shutdown cleanly very quickly.
—Donnie

Correct in general. The hard part tends to be getting the OS to run normally under read-only mode. Seeing as this is sort of "what we do" in the industry, Eric reached out to me this morning and I'm spinning an OS image that should run on a Pi4 and testing it now.

You should have updates soon!

#1489 68 days ago

I asked from Scott Danesi whether his Computer Startup and Shutdown Controller would work with Raspberry Pi and he answered:

"If the RPi has a shutdown and startup button header, it should work"

#1490 68 days ago
Quoted from Nepi23:

I asked from Scott Danesi whether his Computer Startup and Shutdown Controller would work with Raspberry Pi and he answered:
"If the RPi has a shutdown and startup button header, it should work"

You can definitely make GPIO control startup/shutdown.

And yeah, Compy, you are correct. That’s why I said “with some hacking.” I’ve done it, but it’s been a few years ago to setup a UPS monitor to network bridge. And, well, in a former life I did a little bit of Linux hacking. Cool that you’re able to help out on this, and much appreciated!

—Donnie

#1491 68 days ago

If it's inadvisable to hang the Pi4 off the 5v from the power driver board due to the amps it'll pull, then hooking it up via the CSSC is fine anyway, since it'll have to be on the service outlet for power most likely. Just a matter of making some wiring for connecting the CSSC switch pins to the right pins on the GPIO. Whatever. We'll work out the details.

#1492 67 days ago
Quoted from Radius118:

Ok. Something is definitely wrong there. Will have to do some disassembly and take a look. Thanks for the info.

I like that idea. Is there an easy-peasy how-to on how to accomplish this?

I basically just compiled the libpinproc and pygame libraries, along with Eric's code and managed to get it working on a Pi3 but that was a couple of years ago now. I tried to do it again on a Pi4 but it would only compile in monochrome DMD - I got errors when I tried to do it in colour. I'm sure Eric will manage it though

I was concerned about the powering/depowering problem with the Pi but my CCC has survived a year or more at my club and hasn't corrupted itself as yet.

#1493 67 days ago
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

I was concerned about the powering/depowering problem with the Pi but my CCC has survived a year or more at my club and hasn't corrupted itself as yet.

Do you pull the power for it from the power driver board? or somewhere else?

#1494 67 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Do you pull the power for it from the power driver board? or somewhere else?

The Pi takes 5V from the old A/V board connector...keeping it simple.
I do have an external 2.1ch amplifier running off an added 12V PSU, driving some uprated speakers which really belts out the CvA music

#1495 67 days ago

I found some notes I kept from my install on a Pi 3 - copied below (use at your own risk!)

1. Put Raspian light on an 8GB micro SD card and boot the Pi

2. Do the usual updates with "sudo raspi-config", "sudo apt update" and "sudo apt upgrade"

3. Install libraries with "sudo apt install"
libftdi-dev cmake python-dev python-yaml libyaml-cpp-dev python-ftdi1 python-pil python-pygame

4. Set up the CCC directories:
mkdir cactuscanyon, cd cactuscanyon, mkdir dmd, mkdir sounds

5. Unzip code, dmd and sound files to their directories.

At this point I had to make an adjustment for my Acer X163W monitor:
edit ep/ep_desktop_pygame.py, line 355 - Change 32 to 40 to realign window properly)
edit /boot/config.txt to set 1280x768 resolution
hdmi_group=2
hdmi_mode=23

6. Check out pyprocgame from github, then...
wget http://soldmy.org/pin/ccc/files/dmd.c.zip , unzip dmd.c and put in build directory before compiling.
edit setup.py and add include path to /usr/local/include/p-roc, change "ftdi1" to "ftdi" then sudo python setup.py install

7. Check out libpinproc-dev from github
in src directory, edit PRHardware.cpp - remove "libftdi/"
mkdir bin, cd bin, cmake .., sudo make install

To make CCC run from boot: Add to /etc/rc.local
cd /home/pi/cactuscanyon
sudo python cc.py

You may need to set permissions for the P-Roc USB:
Add the file "50-myusb.rules" to /etc/udev/rules.d and type in the following line:
KERNEL=="ttyUSB[0-9]*",MODE="0666"

Check your config.yaml has the font paths in it…
font=path:
.
./dmd/
./shared/dmd

You may or may not need some of the adjustments above, try without and if you get compile errors, try the adjustment.
Obviously it would be a boon to have a pre-compiled SD image to plug and play but I don't suppose it could include the dmd and sounds for obvious reasons.
Hope this is useful to someone

#1496 65 days ago

Just out of curiosity.

My CCC still has incandescent bulbs in it. They seem a little dim - like the GI power saving mode is on.

What default brightness is PPP set up to run the GI's at? Is there an adjustment for this? I did not see one but perhaps I missed it.

#1497 65 days ago

If anyone wants a backup PC for CCC, I still have a Dell Studio Hybrid that I'd be willing to part with. When I had my CC/CCC, I made three of these boxes so I had backups. When I sold the game I included one of the spares.

It's running Windows 7 and I believe has an SSD installed for quick bootup. I even wired it with an external connector for use with the startup/shutdown board.

Anyone interested can PM me and we can talk further about it.

1 month later
#1498 10 days ago

I have not seen myself this happen, but my friends playing my CCC have reported that the computer had rebooted on some occasions.

What would be the best way to diagnose what is going on there? Should I start the CCC from a terminal window and would I that way be able to see what's up with the code or would rebooting the computer mean that its something to do with the computer system instead? In the latter case I guess I will need to wait for the code release for a RaspberryPi4.

So my question is, what is the best way to diagnose the problem when the computer reboots in the middle of the game?

#1499 10 days ago

With CCC, if the code crashes during gameplay; it’s just dead and you have to restart it. It’s got no recovery that would make it reboot.

#1500 10 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

With CCC, if the code crashes during gameplay; it’s just dead and you have to restart it. It’s got no recovery that would make it reboot.

Thanks! Its the computer then I guess. Well, I will put the RaspberryPi4 version then in, when its available.

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