(Topic ID: 216367)

Cabinets still splitting WTF

By john041160

3 years ago


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There are 251 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.
#101 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I saw the same wood filler on at least 3 other games opened. It appeared the bottom MDF panels were cut incorrectly and then pounded into place. The pounding caused other issues that required the filler to "fix" the issues. I get the impression the bottom panels are also not helping the cab splitting as they are putting outward pressure on the corners if too tight from the start.

My guess is you are right here and it would explain a great deal. If they are having a hard time fitting the bottom panels (to the point where they have to use a lot of wood filler) that has to be causing strain on the cab.

I’d like to see a photo of the wood filler on the bottom if anyone has one.

#102 3 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

One day they will piss off the wrong guy.
He'll load the 9K machine in the back of his truck, drive the truck through the doors in Elk Grove Village, and shove the machine straight up the CFO's ass.
Years ago, there was a Jaguar dealer (Rallye Motors) in Paramus, NJ. They had sold an XJS to a local guy and the car would never run right or, frequently, not run at all. After getting the runaround for almost a year from the dealership, the guy drove the car right through the front doors of the dealership and into the salesperson's office. Both parties wound up suing each other with both suits eventually being dropped.

I’m surprised he didn’t go to jail for attempted murder! I mean seriously what if a small child had been walking around in the dealership when he did that, violence is never the answer!

#103 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I can't think of any examples of this other than Simpson's Pinball Party, which is Stern's finest moment.

You really can't think of any examples of Stern games that have held their value or appreciated in price over the years?

- Tron and Tron LE - Increased in value
- Iron Man - Increased in value
- Metallica LE - Increased in value
- LOTR - Increased in value
- AC/DC Prem - has held value
- AC/DC LE - Increased in value

Their are more...

#104 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I’m surprised he didn’t go to jail for attempted murder! I mean seriously what if a small child had been walking around in the dealership when he did that, violence is never the answer!

You're 100% right.

His saving grace was that he did this after the dealership was closed. I believe it was a late Saturday evening.

He left the key on the salesman's desk and took a cab home.

#105 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

My guess is you are right here and it would explain a great deal. If they are having a hard time fitting the bottom panels (to the point where they have to use a lot of wood filler) that has to be causing strain on the cab.
I’d like to see a photo of the wood filler on the bottom if anyone has one.

I can try and get one at some point.

I do wonder if the material they are using for bottom panels has a different expansion/contraction rate from the main cab walls. This could cause issues also, esp since the softer ply they are using on cabs likely moves a bunch with temp/humidity fluctuations.

#106 3 years ago

These new spike cabs are super lightweight. Obviously a way to save money since the heavy components are not in there anymore like the old SAM system. I have the two brand new Iron Maiden machines from pinfest that are cracked in the front corners. Just piss poor joints. We will get new cabinets, but you would think this would have been figured out by now.

#107 3 years ago

With all the talk about "softer wood" on newer Sterns, can we get someone to actually back it up with a hardness test?

You don't even have to test the outer faces of the cabinet. Somewhere on the inside towards the rear should do. Test a (by specific game MFG date, not title release date) post-KISS, pre-KISS, B/W, and JJP? Perhaps a few samples of each for better data results?

Would be very interesting to see if there's any truth to this.

#108 3 years ago

I don't know if it is softer wood, or just less of it. Go move a Sam game, then go pick up an Iron Maiden. Feels like there is nothing in it when moving it around.

#109 3 years ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

With all the talk about "softer wood" on newer Sterns, can we get someone to actually back it up with a hardness test?
You don't even have to test the outer faces of the cabinet. Somewhere on the inside towards the rear should do. Test a (by specific game MFG date, not title release date) post-KISS, pre-KISS, B/W, and JJP? Perhaps a few samples of each for better data results?
Would be very interesting to see if there's any truth to this.

Wouldn't a hardness test only test the outermost layer (or mostly the outermost layer). I'd think a test which evaluates the torque required to spin a screw (perhaps with a pilot hole?) would be a better test of all the layers and their relative softness overall?

#110 3 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

I don't know if it is softer wood, or just less of it. Go move a Sam game, then go pick up an Iron Maiden. Feels like there is nothing in it when moving it around.

Yes, but how much of that is the removal of the transformer and the elimination of a lot of wire. All of that has to be close to 30-40 pounds itself, right?

#111 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Yes, but how much of that is the removal of the transformer and the elimination of a lot of wire. All of that has to be close to 30-40 pounds itself, right?

Very true. Looking at the bottom of the two Iron Maiden machines, it almost looks the it is made of a cheap fiber board, but I could be completely wrong. I can take better pictures tonight when I get home.

#112 3 years ago
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:

Is Stern going to warranty these games that have split cabinets? If I received a NIB like that I would demand a replacement.

You probably need to read the Stern warranty. Read the cover page and page 51 of the IM Pro manual (link below). That's a starting point. but with most warranties, you'll do a lot better working things out instead of going nuts on the customer service rep on the phone.

http://sternpinball.com/upload/games/iron-maiden/pro/2297/IronMaiden_Pro_web.pdf

Most importantly, I suggest working with your distributor FIRST.

#113 3 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

I have the two brand new Iron Maiden machines from pinfest that are cracked in the front corners. Just piss poor joints. We will get new cabinets, but you would think this would have been figured out by now.

How long does a cabinet swap take or does Stern pay for someone to come do the swap for you? Does Stern make you ship back the split cabinet?

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#114 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

does Stern pay for someone to come do the swap for you?

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#115 3 years ago

Here is what the warranty states;

Stern Pinball Inc (‘SELLER’) warrants only to the initial purchaser of its
products that the items listed below are free from defects in material
and workmanship under normal use and service for the warranty period
specified:
• Printed circuit boards (game logic): 2 months
• Dot Matrix / LCD Display: 9 months
No other parts of seller’s product are warranted.

The last sentence says it all.

I don't see anything about wood in that statement. Best to read the fine print before shelling out $8000 or whatever they cost now.

#116 3 years ago

Does anyone know the part number for the cabinet bracket that was factory installed on the SWLE?

#117 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

violence is never the answer!

You sure about that? Sometimes it’s the only answer .... unfortunately

#118 3 years ago

BoJo , I should have asked whether the distributor sends someone to make the cabinet swap for you. Yes, the thought of Stern doing that is kind of funny but perhaps they reimburse some amount to distributors.

Either way, this situation has me concerned enough to wait and see if the IMDN premiums have the extra bracket support before I put my order in. Really bummed, I want this game...

#119 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

does Stern pay for someone to come do the swap for you?

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#120 3 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Does anyone know the part number for the cabinet bracket that was factory installed on the SWLE?

Since we're talking about it. I'm sure something like this would work
amazon.com link »

#121 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

bojo , I should have asked whether the distributor sends someone to make the cabinet swap for you.

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#122 3 years ago

Stop dropping your games !

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#123 3 years ago

My TSPP, FGY & LOTR have never split.

My AS arrived falling apart.

I can see plain as day a difference in the plywood from my older games vs new.

My issue had nothing to do with shipping.

Stern replaced my cabinet & sent a tech to do the swap. Odds are my distro was the reason because Stern has ignored my emails for their tech bulletin fix kits.

Pick a high volume distro. They have leverage w/Stern it appears where the end user does not.

I'm just one person but this is my experience.

#124 3 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

Stern replaced my cabinet & sent a tech to do the swap. Odds are my distro was the reason because Stern has ignored my emails for their tech bulletin fix kits.

Thank you. I didn't think my question was quiet as silly as people were making it out to be. A good distro does that sort of thing.

#125 3 years ago

All I know is that any customer of a new pinball machine should not have to worry about the cabinet falling apart when they are paying $6k-$9k. It's not as if the ability or proper materials to make a quality cabinet suddenly disappeared. If the cabinets are simply lower quality in order for Stern to increase their profits then that's disgusting considering the yearly price increases.

#126 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Thank you. I didn't think my question was quiet as silly as people were making it out to be. A good distro does that sort of thing.

A good distro, not Stern.

#127 3 years ago

I don't understand Stern's decision making process when it comes to cost-cutting. I get that every business is in business to make money (as much as possible) but you have to draw the line somewhere. I understand plastics and metal on the playfield being thinner, reducing wiring harness's, surface mounted electronics ... but I question the logic of under-engineering/building the cabinet of an appliance where the #1 premise is to nudge it (to the point of tilting) to increase playtime and the "heavy" appliance is on 4 legs bolted to the cabinet corners which undergoes so much stress (and is often used in a commercial establishment and takes a lot of abuse).

IF they have decided to use beefier leg plates only on the LE's and Premiums and not on the PRO's then it makes even less sense because everyone knows that the high-end collector with money spends more time looking at their machines than playing them. (I kid - ok I generalize!)

The hit they take to their reputation and resulting sales would certainly not be insignificant (sure they will sell all the IMDN pins they can) but they limit their longer term growth "potential". Why would they do that again?

I love pinball and Stern but I won't automatically give them a pass on stuff like this just because they (think) they are the #1 pinball company in the world. Come on Stern make this 100% right by making it not happen at all - cause this one is just not that hard.

#128 3 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

My TSPP, FGY & LOTR have never split.
My AS arrived falling apart.
I can see plain as day a difference in the plywood from my older games vs new.
My issue had nothing to do with shipping.

None of these issues have anything to do with shipping.

#129 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I can't think of any examples of this other than Simpson's Pinball Party, which is Stern's finest moment.

Tron LE. Back in Black LE. For Those About to Rock LE, amongst others. All sell for more still than they originally cost.

#130 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

How long does a cabinet swap take or does Stern pay for someone to come do the swap for you? Does Stern make you ship back the split cabinet?

The swap out is simple, a few bolts and remove the playfield. I don't believe they want the cabinets back.

These games were setup by the distributor who brought them to the show, they weren't dropped at all, games were split when they took the box off.

#131 3 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

The swap out is simple, a few bolts and remove the playfield. I don't believe they want the cabinets back.
These games were setup by the distributor who brought them to the show, they weren't dropped at all, games were split when they took the box off.

I'm afraid you couldn't be any more wrong about how to do a cabinet swap. New base cabinet comes completely bare with only a ground braid. No rails, no buttons, no bolts, no coin door, no lock bar receiver, no shooter rod, no power supply, no power cord, no power switch, no speaker, no grill, no cord management, and possibly no t-nuts. 8 hours to swap a SAM if you know what you're doing. Less for Spike, but still major PITA. 10 times more work than a populated playfield swap.

#132 3 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

The swap out is simple, a few bolts and remove the playfield. I don't believe they want the cabinets back.
These games were setup by the distributor who brought them to the show, they weren't dropped at all, games were split when they took the box off.

Are those the two that had pictures posted already? If not, please post pics of the splits.

#133 3 years ago

You literally have to disassemble and reassemble the entire pin. The only thing you dont have to pull is the boards from the back box.

I'm a big Stern fan and have defended them. They did me right with replacement playfields and cabinets, but I have not forgiven them for the amount of time and effort it takes to enact these fixes. I shouldn't have to do it in the first place. Plus it's costing them a lot of money.

#134 3 years ago
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:

Has anybody actually confirmed that tightening the leg bolts too tight might be the problem? There should be a torque setting.

The leg bolts apply equal force inside and outside the cabinet, via the plates and legs. Overtorqueing will strip your threads long before any cabinet damage.
It's not a factor in cabinet splitting. And the standard plates aren't new, I have machines from the 60s & 70s that use them and aren't splitting.

#135 3 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I'm afraid you couldn't be any more wrong about how to do a cabinet swap. New base cabinet comes completely bare with only a ground braid. No rails, no buttons, no coin door, no lock bar receiver, no shooter rod, no power supply, no cord management, and possibly no t-nuts. 8 hours to swap a SAM if you know what you're doing. Less for Spike, but still major PITA. 10 times more work than a populated playfield swap.

Yes, more work than swapping out a populated playfield, I agree. Thread talk always comes out the wrong way. Time consuming yes, but not as difficult as other things.

#136 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

The leg bolts apply equal force inside and outside the cabinet, via the plates and legs. Overtorqueing will strip your threads long before any cabinet damage.
It's not a factor in cabinet splitting. And the standard plates aren't new, I have machines from the 60s & 70s that use them and aren't splitting.

I think you're right. It's the wood, or joint method, or glue. What changed starting with Kiss? This is where Stern needs to look.

#137 3 years ago

Dang, I'm a bit concerned now about getting a new Stern. I'm supposed to be getting a new one at an upcoming show. It'll be unboxed and played all weekend, then I take it home. I sure ain't taking it if the show traffic causes a cab split.

#138 3 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Dang, I'm a bit concerned now about getting a new Stern. I'm supposed to be getting a new one at an upcoming show. It'll be unboxed and played all weekend, then I take it home. I sure ain't taking it if the show traffic causes a cab split.

The show traffic isn't the issue. These games were split before being setup. At least the two we bought.

#139 3 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

The show traffic isn't the issue. These games were split before being setup. At least the two we bought.

Yikes. I helped unbox and set up 12 new Sterns at my local show a few months back and no cab issues. Fingers crossed on mine.

#140 3 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I think you're right. It's the wood, or joint method, or glue. What changed starting with Kiss? This is where Stern needs to look.

Pretty sure Stern knows what changed, they like their savings and will be keeping them.

#141 3 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Dang, I'm a bit concerned now about getting a new Stern. I'm supposed to be getting a new one at an upcoming show. It'll be unboxed and played all weekend, then I take it home. I sure ain't taking it if the show traffic causes a cab split.

Big picture it's not that large of a deal, especially if you're getting just one machine. The odds are it will be fine out of the box. Then, spend $30 and upgrade the leg plates in an hour to make sure the odds of not getting a cab split stay in your favor.

#142 3 years ago

Could it be all the old games have their legs bolted directly to the cabs, so the more you tighten the leg bolts the more it presses the corner together against the legs, Stern cabinet splitting seem to have started since they have been using those decal protectors with the legs spaced away from the cab's with a smaller surface area against the leg.
The more you tighten the legs, the more you seem to be pulling the wedge piece of wood against the corner joint from behind.
Factor in nudging & the legs being spaced away from the cab can put more torque/twist on the smaller surface area.

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#143 3 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Could it be all the old games have their legs bolted directly to the cabs, so the more you tighten the leg bolts the more it presses the corner together against the legs, Stern cabinet splitting seem to have started since they have been using those decal protectors with the legs spaced away from the cab's with a smaller surface area against the leg.
The more you tighten the legs, the more you seem to be pulling the wedge piece of wood against the corner joint from behind.
Factor in nudging & the legs being spaced away from the cab can put more torque/twist on the smaller surface area.

If that were true, then JJP, CGC, and all the old B/W games that were upgraded to those standoffs would have splitting cabs too, but they don't. It's the wood Stern cheaped out on around the timeframe of KISS. Cheaper or different glue might be a secondary factor.

#144 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

If that were true, then JJP, CGC, and all the old B/W games that were upgraded to those standoffs would have splitting cabs too, but they don't. It's the wood Stern cheaped out on around the timeframe of KISS. Cheaper or different glue might be a secondary factor.

Never seen a B/W pinball with those standoffs? Do JJP,CGC use plastic or metal standoffs? It may have been when Stern went to the plastic standoffs, AC/DC had metal, never seen a spit AC/DC cab.

#145 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

(snipped for brevity) If the cabinets are simply lower quality in order for Stern to increase their profits then that's disgusting considering the yearly price increases.

It IS indeed disgusting on Stern's part. One can never use the term "quality" and "Stern" in the same sentence.
I don't mean to make that as pejorative as it sounds, but if it it looks like a duck...etc.
Stern products are NOT commercial-duty products anymore, and haven't been for a long time. They have been reduced to over-priced, *near* Chinese grade homeowner "toys" nothing more.

#146 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Big picture it's not that large of a deal, especially if you're getting just one machine. The odds are it will be fine out of the box. Then, spend $30 and upgrade the leg plates in an hour to make sure the odds of not getting a cab split stay in your favor.

As long as the game is fine at the end of the show, I shall follow that advice as I set it up in the gameroom.

#147 3 years ago

So Stern contracts out the cabinet construction to Churchill cabinets right? I mean it sounds like a vendor effed them over, they got the vendor to correct, but now the vendor is failing again?

How Stern can Q/A this for the customer is beyond me. What are they supposed to do, put 100 games on your game and nudge the crap out of it? Not saying its acceptable but it seems like a more complicated problem than "Stern is using cheaper wood/glue/atoms because COST CUTTINGZZZZ"

Rhode Island Pinball's Aerosmith had the cabinet splitting. They got a new cabinet from Stern. Hasn't been swapped in yet because its a ton of labor.

#148 3 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Never seen a B/W pinball with those standoffs? Do JJP,CGC use plastic or metal standoffs? It may have been when Stern went to the plastic standoffs, AC/DC had metal, never seen a spit AC/DC cab.

I said upgraded. I've installed those standoffs on a number of B/W games including Addams, MM, and MB - never a problem.

And AC/DC was before KISS. Around KISS forward is when the wood for the cabinets got noticeably crappier.

#149 3 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

So Stern contracts out the cabinet construction to Churchill cabinets right? I mean it sounds like a vendor effed them over, they got the vendor to correct, but now the vendor is failing again?
How Stern can Q/A this for the customer is beyond me. What are they supposed to do, put 100 games on your game and nudge the crap out of it? Not saying its acceptable but it seems like a more complicated problem than "Stern is using cheaper wood/glue/atoms because COST CUTTINGZZZZ"
Rhode Island Pinball's Aerosmith had the cabinet splitting. They got a new cabinet from Stern. Hasn't been swapped in yet because its a ton of labor.

Stern pays for the cabinet they want. They give the specs and are quoted a price. If they wanted to have better cabinets and pay for it, Churchill would make them however they want. It's just that Stern has been focused on squeezing more costs out of the machine - that's their main focus. Crappier cabinets, ghosting/chipping playfields, and a wimpy, underpowered Spike system are the result.

#150 3 years ago

My GB came split as well when i opened the box.. (i got a replacement) But I noticed the box corners weren't actually glued together properly. Whoever did the routing to join the corners really screwed up. If you looked at the top of the corners you could see a gap running down the box, wood corners aren't touching completely. Therefore there was no solid bond. Whoever is creating the boxes is shaving too much wood off. It's not the material used, someone is measuring wrong.

There are 251 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.

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