Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Pro)
Stern, 2018So I’m more confident now that Stern shipped 10k pins in 2017 and on pace to do more in 2018
Sucks that it happens but def not a widespread issue by any stretch
Maybe a 1/2 of 1% chance that a cab splits on its own due to not enough glue? If that
The rest due to shipping and abuse?
You’d be hard pressed to find a dozen examples, much less 50 out 10,000
Considering Stern makes the PRO model with the intent of them being out on route, where they get the most abuse, these things should be built like tanks.
I wonder if this is exactly what happens when a boxed pin isn't secured in a shipping truck and falls over?
Depends what direction it falls, but would seem it would "like" to fall on the "truck here" side due to weight.
I'm sure many games have tipped over on trucks, and the driver just stands it back up.
Not saying there's never been a "bad cabinet", but how many have been shipping, and how many actually bad?
Its not a shipping issue in most cases..... they are usually fine when unboxed and it happens over time when played. Still it is rarely a issue but can happen bc of the stern cab design and crap leg plates. Definitely am not worried and will b getting a maidien premium at some point
Quoted from John_I:My Star Wars has braces inside on top and bottom of the cabinet. Solid as a rock. I would assume IMDN has the same? If not, this is very easy to fix...
Our Star wars has the braces, GOTGLE does not. The GOTGLE cabinet is very similar to AS and BM66. The front corners definitely need gluing to help with the splitting. We have been doing this on all our machines since 2014. From what I can work out, the cabinets split from the top down because they are not completely glued together or the ply of the wood comes apart.
Actually the cabinets split from both directions, especially from torsion around leg bolts.
Install added plates and top corner brackets, or be willing to accept the consequences. It is part of our preventative bulletproofing games before placing titles out for operation. The issue has been present with Stern games since around 2016, but I don't track every release and compare every cabinet since we add protection anyway. The whole decal overlapping simply make damage easier to spot. I discussed in detail in an earlier post several years ago, and why BLY/WMS added these brackets in the first place in 1993 along with better mitered joints.
Glues such as Titebond will not provide the added protective shear strength after damage has started at the joint. It simply fills the crack or miter void.
Quoted from Whysnow:yes, first one I opened was a complete mess. Distributor saw it, shook his head in disbelief, and thankfully told me to grab another.
4 or 5 of the ones I saw opened at MGC had gobs of wood filler on the bottom of cabs and sometimes running the entire length of the base seam.
What kind of quality control is this? Unreal...
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Actually the cabinets split from both directions, especially from torsion around leg bolts.
Install added plates and top corner brackets, or be willing to accept the consequences. It is part of our preventative bulletproofing games before placing titles out for operation. The issue has been present with Stern games since around 2016, but I don't track every release and compare every cabinet since we add protection anyway. The whole decal overlapping simply make damage easier to spot. I discussed in detail in an earlier post several years ago, and why BLY/WMS added these brackets in the first place in 1993 along with better mitered joints.
Glues such as Titebond will not provide the added protective shear strength after damage has started at the joint. It simply fills the crack or miter void.
I wonder what the difference is between the cabinets Stern is using today and then those from the LOTR / Pirates era? Lower quality materials, different cabinet corner brackets? Issues like this were not being reported 10 years ago. Something changed.
Wow! It doesn't matter how big an issue this is - it should not be happening at all. 0%. Every single cabinet Stern makes is susceptible to this issue - they need stronger support brackets in the corners. This is an easy issue to resolve and ensure that it never happens. It would cost them a maximum of $10 per pin. Problem solved.
As for people saying it could be caused by pins being moved - sure - it might be expected if they were moved 100 times from location to location. On a 2 week old pin. No way, should never happen - ever.
IMDN is a great game - but this is silly.
Quoted from PBFan:Every single cabinet Stern makes is susceptible to this issue - they need stronger support brackets in the corners.
Star Wars cabinets have braces in the corners and are solid as a rock. Might just be the Premiums and LEs that have that? Either way your statement is incorrect.
Quoted from PBFan:It doesn't matter how big an issue this is - it should not be happening at all. 0%.
This part I agree with completely.
Maybe Stern should have Steve Richie explain to us all how all cabinets split apart just like all playfields dimple as he did
in his video to all of us pions with those stupid dark glasses covering his lying eyes
Quoted from PBFan:John_I it is good to hear that Star Wars has the braces. So I wonder why they didn't keep doing this for all their cabinets going forward?
I'm thinking maybe the Pros don't have it? And the Premiums and LEs do?
Quoted from John_I:I'm thinking maybe the Pros don't have it? And the Premiums and LEs do?
Correct
Quoted from John_I:I'm thinking maybe the Pros don't have it? And the Premiums and LEs do?
Wow you think that would be a standard thing with all cabinets, won't really stop Stern from selling a boatload of pros though.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I wonder what the difference is between the cabinets Stern is using today and then those from the LOTR / Pirates era? Lower quality materials, different cabinet corner brackets? Issues like this were not being reported 10 years ago. Something changed.
Wood is just cheaper/crappier/softer. It seems to have happened (or taken another drop) around KISS. You can FEEL the difference of the screws biting into a current Stern vs a KISS machine or before.
Ok so if I buy a new Stern I now have to install additional cabinet braces now.... NIIIIIICCCCEEE. Has anybody actually confirmed that tightening the leg bolts too tight might be the problem? There should be a torque setting. Next thing you know we will need torque wrenches to assemble these machines.
Quoted from gjm:lying eyes
C'mon man its been a rough fucking night and I hate the fucking Eagles man.
Quoted from Gryszzz:C'mon man its been a rough fucking night and I hate the fucking Eagles man.
This post is on point.
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Ok so if I buy a new Stern I now have to install additional cabinet braces now.... NIIIIIICCCCEEE. Has anybody actually confirmed that tightening the leg bolts too tight might be the problem? There should be a torque setting. Next thing you know we will need torque wrenches to assemble these machines.
Exactly what I think is happening. I’m guessing this is likely more of a result of over tightening than poorly glued cabinets. Vid1900 explains in detail here. I tend to believe he knows a little more than the average collector about cabinet design and strength.
Quoted from vid1900:You don't have to put aftermarket braces on the cabs.
James installs them before routing and the joints still telegraph through the decals, so he says they don't make any difference in commercial use.
I've repaired so many hundreds of Williams cab joints back in the day, that I could never count them. Bracket or no bracket, joints split if they want to.If there is one thing Pinside has proven again and again, it's that Pinsiders have no idea what quality plywood is. Absolutely none.
The more layers in a sheet of plywood, the more expensive it is (generally speaking, I know some Pindick® will find a 200 layer sheet for 3 Rupees and start wildly beating his meat ).
Here is a cheap piece of plywood.
Very few layers (5 layers), voids between the plys, and no MDO faces to make it smooth and hide the grain:Williams used this type of plywood until the 90s.
-
Just for the Pindicks®, here is a cheap piece of plywood with many layers, but you can see that the layers are not straight, tons of voids, just anything they could smash together, and no MDO face:You don't see this stuff too often in the States, but I know someone would say "LOOK!!!! Here is 13 layer plywood from India, solid, mega lumber core, supreme! "
-
Finally, let's look a piece of quality plywood.
Many layers.
All the layers are straight.
No voids.
MDO face.The MDO face is a super smooth layer of MDF that comes pre-primed and sealed from the factory. This layer prevents the grain of the wood from telegraphing through the paint or decals.
If you need to paint a plywood product, MDO Ply is the ultimate. Williams started using this in 1992.
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Ok so if I buy a new Stern I now have to install additional cabinet braces now.... NIIIIIICCCCEEE. Has anybody actually confirmed that tightening the leg bolts too tight might be the problem? There should be a torque setting. Next thing you know we will need torque wrenches to assemble these machines.
Unless you're using massive force, tightening bolts real snug is not the problem. That design has been the same for a long time (even with the underpowered inside leg plates), people torqued their bolts plenty tight, and never this many reported Stern cabinet splitting issues. What's changed? Stern doing a hidden cost cut to use crappier cabinet wood. <---the answer
If you buy a lot of pins to get a decent sample size, it's pretty clear that around KISS timeframe the wood in the cabinets changed for the worse.
Quoted from PinMonk:Wood is just cheaper/crappier/softer. It seems to have happened (or taken another drop) around KISS. You can FEEL the difference of the screws biting into a current Stern vs a KISS machine or before.
This is my observation as well. Never saw a Stern split b4 Kiss. We buy most new Sterns. Our Kiss split, plus our Met manufactured last year. Our AS may be starting to split as well.
Quoted from john041160:Sorry haven’t updated list on here for a while also GB pro and a Aerosmith.
Was considering buying an IM but think I will wait.
Just put the HD leg braces on when you get your new game and forget about the splitting.
Quoted from Stones:Yuup, after seeing this post, I'm ordering the brackets today.....
Good but DON"T glue the screws in, if you cross thread, spin or otherwise screw up the pressed in threads on one of the 2 you'll never get the plate off to put a new one on. The 8 screws are more then enough to keep the plate solid as a rock.
Like Stern cares they already have all your money! lol Node board issues, recalling mpu's, horribly dimpling clear coats, inserts cracking, poor engineering, shotty playfield layouts and now the last thing to break the cabinets. I would never own a Stern past Whitestar sys, never ever pay for one NIB, they depreciate worse than a new car off the lot. lol
Quoted from gmkalos:Like Stern cares they already have all your money! lol Node board issues, recalling mpu's, horribly dimpling clear coats, inserts cracking, poor engineering, shotty playfield layouts and now the last thing to break the cabinets. I would never own a Stern past Whitestar sys, never ever pay for one NIB, they depreciate worse than a new car off the lot. lol
Well, let's not get carried away. Stern has their hits and their duds. Many hold their price and some appreciate. The car analogy doesn't work.
MARCO has the fix for your flaky cabinets...they made shi@t better back in the day at Williams lol
Quoted from MustangPaul:Deleted post
I don't understand why you say this. I've taken a leg plate off on an Addams I had to re-do. The glue toughens the wood around the screw, but it doesn't work like loc-tite on a machine screw into a threaded nut or something. It's trivial to remove the screws back out, make the change, then put the screw back in with some more glue if need be.
Look first company to make a metal lithographed and cleared playfield gets my undying eternal love! Nobody makes quality products anymore no matter how much they cost.
Quoted from Whysnow:yes, first one I opened was a complete mess. Distributor saw it, shook his head in disbelief, and thankfully told me to grab another.
4 or 5 of the ones I saw opened at MGC had gobs of wood filler on the bottom of cabs and sometimes running the entire length of the base seam.
Wood filler on the bottom of an NIB game? Yikes! Any photos?
We have a Metallica premium 2017 in our pinball club, it split and Stern sent a new lower cabinet, which was nIce but still had to swap everything over.
Cabinet splitting is unacceptable imo. I have 4 Williams games from the early 90’s not a problem on any... they just don’t make (some) things the way they use to
Is Stern going to warranty these games that have split cabinets? If I received a NIB like that I would demand a replacement.
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Is Stern going to warranty these games that have split cabinets? If I received a NIB like that I would demand a replacement.
Depends on how badly it's split, but even if they do, it's still a MUCH bigger hassle doing a cabinet swap then taking an hour or less to upgrade the leg plates for less than $30.
why the hell should you have to reinforce your new pinball cabinet? or wait a few months to see it split then have to fix it. i dont get it. after an issue with my metle that i could never get an answer to, i haven't bought a new stern. gonna stick with older b/w and gottlieb em's.
Quoted from PinMonk:I don't understand why you say this. I've taken a leg plate off on an Addams I had to re-do. The glue toughens the wood around the screw, but it doesn't work like loc-tite on a machine screw into a threaded nut or something. It's trivial to remove the screws back out, make the change, then put the screw back in with some more glue if need be.
Well ok if it works then.
Quoted from cooked71:FFS Stern. You know the solution. Its cheap. Is it really cheaper to replace cabs and get a shi*t load of negative publicity than adding simple reinforcement to your cabs?
I guess they must have bean counters that say yes. Crap...anyone know if the IMDN LE and Premium will have the extra support brackets like people are saying SW did?
I’m a bit concerned about installing those extra support brackets myself and damaging the cabinet or decals or voiding my warranty.
Quoted from Zavadoza:I prefer people to comment on games they actually care about and would realistically purchase.
Whoa, so your clairvoyant now and know what games people will buy or care about in the future.
What my next purchase? I’m interested in you telling what is ok.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Wood filler on the bottom of an NIB game? Yikes! Any photos?
sorry, did not grab photos since too busy setting up show games and did not want to piss off the distributor possibly as he is a nice guy.
I can grab a photo of the one we did end up with which has some minor wood filler compared to the first one I opened. I saw the same wood filler on at least 3 other games opened. It appeared the bottom MDF panels were cut incorrectly and then pounded into place. The pounding caused other issues that required the filler to "fix" the issues. I get the impression the bottom panels are also not helping the cab splitting as they are putting outward pressure on the corners if too tight from the start.
Quoted from TigerLaw:voiding my warranty.
I didn't realize Stern actually honored those claims...JK 
Quoted from NPO:Doesn't matter. People are paying nearly 9000 for a machine without seeing one single picture. Stern sees that, and they DGAF; they see that money rolling in like crazy and this community's willingness to take it on the chin and do the repairs/upgrades themselves to "get their grail pin" citing "it's not really THAT big a deal".
Doesn't matter to Stern. The community keeps paying without question, orders come in at an impetuous rate, and they're more making money putting out less quality games.
Until we stop buying their games, nothing will change.
Simple as that.
I agree.
If you have splitting issues file a claim. Vote with your voice / email to them.
If enough claims are filled they will pay attention. Until then business as usual for them.
Quoted from PinMonk:Many hold their price and some appreciate.
I can't think of any examples of this other than Simpson's Pinball Party, which is Stern's finest moment.
Quoted from cpr9999:If you have splitting issues file a claim. Vote with your voice / email to them.
If enough claims are filled they will pay attention. Until then business as usual for them.
Until Stern see’s enough people demand new cabinets and then not do the swap, repair the cabinet themselves and turn around and sell their replacement cabinet for $$$ 
My worry is that this hurts us all as it will make Stern less likely to send replacement cabinets or other warranty replacement items 
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbusters-new-cabinet-for-sale#post-4386108
The above add appears to be an LE cabinet and as you know Stern is already extremely tight on sending out LE replacement items as they don’t want people building LE’s from parts. I have found that Stern is very good about warranty issues and I don’t want to see that change!
One day they will piss off the wrong guy.
He'll load the 9K machine in the back of his truck, drive the truck through the doors in Elk Grove Village, and shove the machine straight up the CFO's ass.
Years ago, there was a Jaguar dealer (Rallye Motors) in Paramus, NJ. They had sold an XJS to a local guy and the car would never run right or, frequently, not run at all. After getting the runaround for almost a year from the dealership, the guy drove the car right through the front doors of the dealership and into the salesperson's office. Both parties wound up suing each other with both suits eventually being dropped.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinets-still-splitting-wtf/page/2?hl=ltrain and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Boerne, TX
Okotoks, AB
Sydney