(Topic ID: 132130)

Cabinet Restoration - Vid's Guide

By vid1900

8 years ago


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    Topic index (key posts)

    8 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

    Post #1 Wear a respirator when sanding old paint Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #2 Repairing large missing wood chunks with fiberglass resin Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #24 Primer and Paint commentary Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #103 Repairing separated corners Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

    Post #145 Wood selection Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

    Post #273 Steps to replace a cabinet bottom Posted by vid1900 (6 years ago)

    Post #344 Proper Router Bit for Creating Corner Joints on Cabinets. Posted by vid1900 (6 years ago)

    Post #489 Separated Corners on Cabinets and How to Repair Them. Posted by vid1900 (5 years ago)


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    32
    #1 8 years ago

    This post will start a guide about restoring wood cabinets.

    I will preface this guide by saying it is often cheaper to just buy a brand new CNCed cabinet from one of many sources. I'll post an assembly guide latter in the thread.

    Commercial equipment continued to be painted with paint containing Lead well into the 2000s, so assume all cabinet paint is highly toxic. The 1978 ban on household Lead Paint did not apply to commercial equipment. Sanding should only be done OUTSIDE OF THE GARAGE and WITH A LEAD RATED RESPIRATOR, downwind from your garden. A "dust mask" is absolutely worthless. You will never be able to clean all the Lead out of a Garage or Basement if you sand there.

    You are going to need one of these:

    698382_AltrntImage-1-2_P.jpg698382_AltrntImage-1-2_P.jpg

    #2 8 years ago

    REPAIRING LARGE SECTIONS OF MISSING WOOD

    ===================================================

    Usually the first job is to fix any large sections of missing wood.

    Most amateurs are going to reach for Wood Putty or Bondo.

    Wood Putty is too brittle for a missing corner like this. Bondo is too lightweight and fragile.

    If you bump a corner repaired with a big chunk of Bondo, a whole chunk is likely to pop off.

    If you are going to take the time to sand and repaint the cab, you don't want all of your worked ruined instantly.

    So for a serious repair, we are going to use Fiberglass Resin.

    -

    Sand off any flaky paint that could keep our repair from adhering.

    We want our repair to have some "tooth" so we start by deeply scoring the wood with a razor knife.

    1.jpg1.jpg

    #3 8 years ago

    Even the deep scoring with the knife might not be enough to insure a permanent repair.

    So next we put a couple of small screws into the missing wood.

    Leave the heads proud of the wood, so the Resin will be able to flow all the way around them.

    Make sure you drill pilot holes, we don't want to split the wood from screwing so close to the edge.

    2.jpg2.jpg

    #4 8 years ago

    Resin is thick like syrup.

    So we need to build a Dam to hold the Resin in place until it cures.

    Here, I have scored and bent a scrap of aluminum to use as our Dam.

    Scoring the aluminum before bending ensures a crisp corner bend.

    Wax the inside surface with auto wax to ensure the Dam will not stick to our Resin once cured.

    Don't get any wax on the wood!

    3.jpg3.jpg

    #5 8 years ago

    Staple the Dam in place.

    The Resin gets hot when it cures, so tape will not hold it. If you insist on trying tape, get ready to clean up a giant mess.

    Large Bar Clamps could also be used if you run out of staples.

    4.jpg4.jpg

    #6 8 years ago

    From the front side, this should be all starting to make sense about now....

    5.jpg5.jpg

    #7 8 years ago

    Here is some Resin made by the Bondo company.

    You need a clean cup, the Resin, and the Hardener.

    Make sure the cup you use is not going to melt from the Resin. A foam cup will melt into an awful mess.

    The reaction of the Resin and the Hardener is temperature based. The warmer the Resin is, the faster the cure time. If it's hot outside, put a little less hardener in - and work quickly! If it's over 85*F, save this repair for another day.

    6.jpg6.jpg

    #8 8 years ago

    Level the cabinet, and pour the Resin into the repair.

    Just **slightly** overfill the hole.

    Because it's so much stronger, Resin is much harder to sand than Bondo filler, so don't make a bunch of hard work for yourself.

    If this repair was over an inch in size, we would add some Chopped Glass Fibers to reinforce the Resin. Don't take shortcuts here, if anything is going to get banged around in a game, it's going to be the corners.

    Clean up any spilled Resin with Acetone before it cures.

    7.jpg7.jpg

    Chopped_Glass.jpgChopped_Glass.jpg

    #9 8 years ago

    Left over Resin can be used to fill other holes, like these from coin door lock bar.

    These holes will get scratched up for tooth, and feathered out with Bondo filler.

    8.jpg8.jpg

    #10 8 years ago

    Pry out the staples and remove the Dam when the Resin is almost dry.

    The wax will allow it to pop right off.

    Once the Resin is completely dry, sand flush with the wood.

    You now have a durable, permanent repair.

    9.jpg9.jpg

    You can see the screw heads imbedded in the Resin:

    10.jpg10.jpg

    #16 8 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I always thought bond or JW Weld were the go-approaches

    Don't get me wrong, Bondo Filler is great for flat or small areas.

    But it's not tough enough to take a blow on a corner without losing a chunk of material.

    We will be using Bondo Filler in the next section of the guide.

    2 months later
    #24 8 years ago
    Quoted from Sheprd:

    What type of primer is best suited for a pinball cabinet application?

    You want a sealing primer so that rusty staples or Knots in the wood don't bleed through light colored paints.

    KILZ Original would be an example.

    2 part auto primer is good, if you have the correct safety equipment.

    Quoted from Sheprd:

    What type of paint is best suited for a pinball cabinet application?

    2 part auto paints are good, if you have the correct safety equipment and can find the right color.

    Createx paints, although pricey for large scale painting, are another excellent choice - and are already thin enough to spray.

    Custom tinted hardware store paints can be good - but make sure you buy top of the line. You will need to thin the paint to spray it, and cheap, thinned paint does not cover worth a crap. If you have to put down a bunch of layers to get satisfactory coverage, you will feel the paint edge with your fingers and it won't look factory.

    #25 8 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    So, what's the best way to fix a cabinet that's wobbly? I've got a Paragon that has angle brackets holding it together.

    Prop the game up on some milk crates and pull the front legs off.

    Open up the corner joints with a flat screwdriver and and fill the gap with Titebond III glue.

    tightbond.jpgtightbond.jpg

    Put ratchet straps around the game and close up the gaps tight.

    Wipe up the glue squeezeout with a damp rag, so it does not glue the straps to the game.

    Allow to dry overnight.

    Using a 3/8" drill, drill out the glue from the leg bolt holes.

    Replace old, crappy leg brackets, with newer style:

    pbl_01-11400-1.jpgpbl_01-11400-1.jpg

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=144

    Put some leg bolts through the cab and into the leg brackets - before you put the bracket wood screws in - you don't want the bracket misaligned, believe me.

    I'll post some pictures of the process soon.

    #28 8 years ago
    Quoted from Sheprd:

    Most of the paints listed by users on the old Pinball Pal web site seem to be oil based enamels.

    Oil Based Enamels turn yellow (even if they say Non-Yellowing Formula).

    Quoted from Sheprd:

    If one use those, could there be an issue clear coating with 2PAC over the top?

    Too many different oil formulas to possibly know, but Testors bleeds like a SOB into the clear.

    I'd use anything but Oil Based.

    Createx or Latex paint takes 2PAC just fine.

    #30 8 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    Vid- Prior to painting or stickering, how would you prep a pinball cabinet surface to be plank free, and stay plank free ?

    Never store a game in a garage - that's the best way to keep the wood from planking.

    -

    You can fill all the dent's and dings, then spray 2 Part Auto Primer or 2PAC and sand it flat.

    The 2PAC works good when you need to see the old stenciling to cut frisket for restoration.

    The 2PAP works good when you are using new stencils.

    #32 8 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    will the 2PAC sag immediately if sprayed to a vertical surface (ie the sides of the box)?

    If you lay down too much it will sag - just like shooting a car.

    It cures so fast, that if you think you will apply too much (or need to "flood" some planked or dented areas) just do one side at a time; spraying flat surfaces.

    The pot life is about 2 hours in the gun, so you could shoot one side of the cab, one side of the head; then rotate and hit the other side.

    10
    #34 8 years ago
    Quoted from CNKay:

    I don't know Vid. As far as guides go this one aint looking so good yet. Where's all the step by step and pictures and graphics on top of pictures saying what not to do.

    LOL, I only have so many hours in the day.

    There will be sections on decal repair, building an entire cab from scratch, commercially produced stencils, Frisket repairs, clearcoating, water damage....but it will take a while.

    I started this guide with replacing large chunks of missing wood, because I had someone ask about it, and I had photos of just such a repair on my phone.

    The playfield repair guide is up to 2400 posts, this one is an infant at only 35 posts.....relax.

    2 weeks later
    #39 8 years ago
    Quoted from songofsixpence:

    Do I understand correctly, that once you mix the 2pac and load the gun, you have about 2 hours to use it? I was thinking that it has to get sprayed within 5 minutes...

    Depending on the brand/hardener, you have about 1.5 to 2 hours to use it.

    #40 8 years ago
    Quoted from iwantansi:

    Vid, we just finished repainting this Genie. Was contemplating a flat clearcoat to finish it off, what do you recommend?
    We sprayed the aqua/orange using Montana WHITE
    http://www.montana-cans.com/products/Cans/Montana_WHITE/Montana_WHITE_400ml_High_Gloss/158
    We did the base with BEHR MARQUEE Enamel and Kilz oil based primer.

    The original game did not have a clearcoat on the cab.

    So it depends on how original you want it to look.

    Lightly sand the paint when fully dry (could be weeks if the paint came from a rattle can) for tooth, and spray the topcoat of your choice.

    The original finish was probably semi-gloss.

    #43 8 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    Hi Vid-
    I'd like to hear your method of removing the sharp edges of the color layers after stenciling a cab.

    I knock the edges down with 800 or 1000 grit wet sandpaper

    #44 8 years ago
    Quoted from feveredpinhead:

    Vid,
    I have a United shuffle-targette machine I am going to repaint. I know it's not a pinball machine but I figure the steps would be about the same. I am planning on sanding to bare wood, fixing any imperfections in the wood, and priming with Kilz primer. I was planning on using latex for the main color coat and spray it using a harbor frieght HVLP gun. I know the paint will need thinned but what do you recommend for a thinner? Most I've read online so far say to use water. I worry that the additional water will cause issues with the wood. I did see one guy that used windshield washer fluid. Not sure on that one but seemed to work ok for him.

    You've got to seal the bare wood first, before using any water based paints/primers on it - or else you will "raise the grain" of the wood.

    This is where you would use 2 part auto primer, or Original Kilz (never ever buy the latex Kilz - total garbage).

    I thin latex paints with water all the time - just don't try to thin cheap latex paint, because you can't. Always buy the most expensive latex if you need to thin it.

    #48 8 years ago
    Quoted from T2play:

    What is the best way to prep a cab for new graphics, sand first? Spray a primer on?

    Depends on the cab.

    If there are scratches and holes, you have to fill them.

    New paint will make every flaw jump out at you.

    You should sand to give the new primer and paint some tooth.

    #49 8 years ago
    Quoted from T2play:

    What kind of black paint should be used for touch up? Should I brush it on?

    Semi gloss black is what was usually original.

    Spray is better than brush.

    #51 8 years ago

    http://www.xtremepinball.com

    You have to call because he took the website down for a while.

    #54 8 years ago
    Quoted from hisokajp:

    What is the pro/con between and electric or an air sander?

    Pro: Air sander won't electrocute you when you wet sand.

    Con: Air sander needs a big air tank or the compressor will run constantly.

    #56 8 years ago

    You have to look at the tool's CFM requirement (it's in the spec sheet), and then look at what your compressor can deliver.

    Home Center compressors will slightly underdeliver and most air tools need a little more than they claim - so give yourself some room both ways.

    Required reading about compressors:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/5#post-725962

    #60 8 years ago
    Quoted from xeneize:

    Sadly, I have ONE spot where too much paint accumulated on the side and thus created a "run". Is it possible to just sand the run down using 320/400 grit and then apply the clear?

    As long as the paint is fully cured.

    A run is thick, so it could take quite a while to cure.

    Once it does, sand away. If cured, it will sand cleanly. If not, it will ball up and clog the sandpaper.

    Quoted from xeneize:

    Would you lightly sand the entire cabinet before clearing?

    Yes, that will give the clear some tooth, and knock down the hard edges from any stenciling.

    #62 8 years ago
    Quoted from xeneize:

    What grain of sandpaper do you recommend for giving the clear enough tooth to hold?

    800 is usually great.

    Quoted from xeneize:

    I am also assuming that we want to stick with the block at this stage and stay away from a powered sander. Correct?

    Correct.

    You just want to knock the edges off and degloss.

    #64 8 years ago

    Semi gloss is usually factory.

    Even the color black can fade, so test a little semi gloss black acrylic where it will be hidden by the lockbar and see how close it matches.

    #66 8 years ago

    Try mixing Satin and Gloss of the same brand until you get a sheen that matches.

    #68 8 years ago

    Remember, you won't get any gloss painting over raw wood.

    You've got to seal it (like with primer) first.

    1 week later
    #71 8 years ago
    Quoted from lb1:

    I did some touch up on a Monopoly around the flipper buttons. I used some black Createx and clearcoated it with water based Verathane. As showed in the pick, it is not deep as the surrounding black from the factory. Is there a trick to getting the same depth?

    Varathane is milky when dry, so you will never get "deep black" when using it as a clearcoat.

    That's why you can't use to to clearcoat a playfield, it dulls down all the colors.

    #74 8 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    I have used Varathane before and had it fully cured. I then sanded and polished the hell out of it and it looks like a thin sheet of glass. Colors are brilliant. Just my observations.

    You are the only person I've ever heard say that.

    I see Varathan coated playfields at the shows, and you can totally see the color knock down.

    But I guess it's possible that you had a different formula back before Rustoleum made the ultracrappy recent version.

    #77 8 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    When you say color knock down you mean (for example), the reds are darker, details (ie bally line art) are fuzzier ?

    The Varathane is slightly milky, so it mutes the colors. If you put it over black, it makes the black look like very dark grey.

    Because it does not get as hard as 2PAC, it wont polish out to be as shiny.

    Because it does not get super hard, it won't last as long before you have to polish out the ball trails again.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1667109

    3 months later
    #88 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pinterest:

    My question is -- the MP170 epoxy primer does not specifically state it will bond well to wood.

    No auto paint stuff ever says it's for wood.

    The guys at the counter of the auto paint store always panic when you tell them what you are doing with the stuff; "Uhhhhhh....that is definitely NOT an approved use of this product! "

    1 week later
    #91 8 years ago

    Here is how the pros do it with instructions by Devilbiss

    fly-speck_(resized).jpgfly-speck_(resized).jpg

    1 month later
    #93 7 years ago
    Quoted from Syco54645:

    What would you do for a cabinet head where the ply is separating on the one side?

    Let's see a pic

    #95 7 years ago
    Quoted from Syco54645:

    Hard to tell in the picture but the wood is swollen around the bolts a little bit.

    If you have a router, you can knock out that panel and use it as a template to make another.

    It sure does not look like it's worth saving, lol.

    #97 7 years ago

    Dead blow mallet will probably get that thing apart in seconds.

    #99 7 years ago

    If you've got to put some serious pressure on something big, "pony" pipe clamps can't be beat.

    They just use a piece of "black pipe", so they can be any size you need them to be.

    You can also put them on the pipe backwards and use them as a spreader.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-3-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-cast-iron-pipe-clamp-31255.html

    image_17635_(resized).jpgimage_17635_(resized).jpg

    #102 7 years ago
    Quoted from Syco54645:

    would I want 2 of these? one for the length and one for the width?

    Squeeze the joint together by hand to get an idea of how much pressure you are going to need. 2 clamps at least, maybe 4 if the the joint is fighting you.

    13
    #103 7 years ago

    REPAIRING SEPARATED CORNER ON LOWER CAB

    =====================================

    1. Prop up milk crates or bar stool to take weight off of the leg.

    2. Remove leg on affected side.

    3. Using a chisel, knock out wood Gusset from inside corner. Be careful not to nick your blade on the staples.

    3a. Save Leg Bolt Plate from Gusset.

    4. Wedge the joint open and scrape out any wood chips or other garbage that would prevent the joint from closing evenly.

    5. Vacuum the joint clean.

    6. Apply a liberal amount of Titebond3 or Carpenters Glue to BOTH sides of the joint.

    7. Clamp joint together. Use some scrap wood strips to keep the clamps from scratching/denting the cab.

    8. Remove staples from Gusset. Glue in Gusset in corner. Pneumatically staple it in place, or flex a thin scrap of wood from the bottom brace to hold it.

    8a. If Gusset is cracked, make a new one. Set your table saw blade to 45 degrees and run a few feet of 2x4 lumber through the saw. Cutting off a corner makes a perfect replacement Gusset. Save the excess Gusset for next time.

    9. With a damp cloth, wipe glue squeeze-out from along the outside of the joint.

    10. Allow to dry over night.

    11. Run a 3/8" drill through the cab holes and through the Gusset to clean out any glue. Ream the drill bit around a few times because you want the hole **slightly** bigger than 3/8".

    12. Reinstall the Leg Bolt Plate.

    3 weeks later
    #113 7 years ago
    Quoted from mamawaldee:

    Vid, did this thread die?
    I have a faded Scared Stiff that is otherwise in good shape, it needs the reds and greens. I'd hate to sand off the original artwork and put on crappy decals, (or use sharpies).
    What's the best way to recolor faded but otherwise good cabs?

    Use Frisket, just like you would do on a playfield.

    Cut out the green first, then do the red.

    #116 7 years ago
    Quoted from Platypus:

    And how are we best to determine the proper colors other than a side by side comparison?

    Usually, I just roll the cab or head into the local paint store on a dolly.

    As long as they have a dime size spot of unfaded paint (under the armor, under the coin door frame, under/inside head), they will match it no problem.

    Get a quart of their highest quality paints, because you will probably have to thin them to spray them. Cheap paints are already too thin.

    Remember to use compatible primer. If you don't, the new paint may lift when you pull the stencils.

    #122 7 years ago
    Quoted from Platypus:

    My problem is which paint store? I have an account at the local Sherwin Williams (for house paints) or do I go to the auto paints store? If I order Createx, I can't do that and have to mix my own.

    Most auto stores only sell factory colors, and don't do matching.

    Sherwin Williams would be your store.

    -

    A few colors (like hot orange) will have to be Createx, because no one locally can match/mix those.

    Quoted from Platypus:

    How will I know if it is compatible?

    Test on a scrap panel.

    2pack auto primers seem to be good with just about anything.

    Oil-based KILZ primer goes good with latex paints.

    #123 7 years ago
    Quoted from Syco54645:

    The mount for the head has broken free. In the back it was screwed together with 6 or so metal plates. How to fix it right?

    A bare wood to bare wood joint is the perfect candidate to be repaired with Titebond3.

    The wood will break before the glue will.

    2 weeks later
    #129 7 years ago

    You can spray it with a primer tip for your gun.

    Roll it and sand it is fine too.

    #131 7 years ago
    Quoted from jibmums:

    I have a Space Invaders backbox frame (the part that swings out) that needs repainting. It seems to be of a slightly "softer" wood than the rest of the plywood cabinet

    Yes, it's made of real pine lumber.

    Quoted from jibmums:

    and has taken a few scratches and dinks, especially along the edges. Overall these are small and/or shallow, and not knowing anything about wood repair, I thought I'd fill them in with some epoxy, the 2-part glue stuff in the syringe.

    Glues like epoxy, needs a rough surface (tooth) to adhere to. The smooth painted surface of a cab is not rough enough.

    The edge is the hardest thing to get a small section of brittle glue to stick to, and it usually chips off upon first impact.

    You will need to rough up the section you are gluing, and maybe even drill some small holes in it to allow the resin to flow into it.

    #133 7 years ago

    Kwickwood is good.

    But the edge has very little surface area to grip to, yet it's the most exposed to damage.

    Sometimes if it's too dinged up on the edges, I'll just cut new wood - faster, and the repairs won't chip off on the first bump.

    #138 7 years ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Vid-
    If you covered this and I missed it, I apologize. What is the best way to repair lock-bar holes? I was going to put cardboard on the inside of the cabinet, then fill with resin, but wondered if that would hold (can't score the inside of a hole, and can't put screws into a hole the way you did with a damaged corner) if I remove the cardboard. Alternatively, I could screw or woodglue a thin piece of wood inside the cabinet and just leave it there, but it wouldn't look good or original.

    A wood dowel is good to glue in (like Dasvis said), tap it in about 1/8" below the front surface, then Bondo and feather out.

    Or you can fill with resin. No need to score the inside of the hole, because the plywood will be naturally rough.

    #141 7 years ago
    Quoted from jsa:

    Vid, what's your thought on putting a clear coat over decals? Overkill?

    Some decals melt from the clear.

    You can get decals laminated for about $1-2 a square foot at any sign shop.

    Then they look like those Rad-cals from JJP

    #143 7 years ago
    Quoted from jsa:

    Also, presuming I get some good coats of Kilz Original primer per your recommendation, for the parts of my cabinet that aren't vinyl decals, (either black or purple on a BoP), but have a rather large surface area, just a high-end semi-gloss urethane-based paint from a good paint store, correct?

    Ideally, you want a primer that matches your paint.

    If you are shooting 2 part Urethane paint, you should shoot the matching 2 part primer.

    Way less chance of lifting or wrinkling if everything is the same process and brand.

    1 week later
    #145 7 years ago

    BEST PLYWOOD FOR CABINET REPAIR OR BUILDING FROM SCRATCH

    ==================================================

    If you've ever gone to Home Depot and tried to find an actual flat piece of plywood, you know how difficult it can be.

    Big box store's plywood is terrible, full of voids and patches (known as "boatmen").

    boatman_(resized).jpgboatman_(resized).jpg

    These boatmen often telegraph through the paint over the years as the wood expands and contracts.

    -

    cheap plywood (resized).jpgcheap plywood (resized).jpg

    Voids in cheap plywood can come back and bite you in the ass.

    -

    Big Box stores also sell "Oak" or "Birch" plywood. Don't be fooled, that plywood is the same soft Pine plywood as the other junk, just with a paper thin veneer of Oak on the two faces.

    This veneer is so thin, that you can sand through it in a blink of an eye.

    This veneer is so thin, that often underlying boatmen telegraph through the veneer over time.

    quarter-sawn-oak-veneer-plywood-jq8fsnsf1kv2vnzz_(resized).JPGquarter-sawn-oak-veneer-plywood-jq8fsnsf1kv2vnzz_(resized).JPG

    Even the veneer of Oak plywood is very "open grain" so the grain will require much filling and sanding to give a smooth paint surface.

    -

    Baltic Birch is a great plywood with about 3x the number of plys for the same thickness sheet.

    The 1/4" Baltic Birch is great stuff for the bottom panel of a cabinet.

    But 3/4" Baltic Birch is 2.25 pounds per square foot, compared to regular plywood at 1.4 pounds - so it makes for a VERY heavy cabinet. Do not underestimate how heavy a Baltic cabinet will end up being!

    baltic_birch_(resized).jpgbaltic_birch_(resized).jpg

    All those plys in Baltic Birch make it very stable, because they are all the same wood species; Birch.

    -

    The best plywood for building cabs from scratch is MDO Plywood. Medium Density Overlay Plywood.

    It's real plywood, so it glues and holds screws perfectly.

    But it has a thin venier of MDF on both faces, that is usually pre-primed.

    Because the MDF is 50x thicker than a "birch" veneer, the defects in the underlying wood do not telegraph through.

    The MDF is perfectly flat. No filling, no sanding, no graining, no telegraphing and usually no priming is needed.

    This saves you about 8 hours of prep time, and gives you a flatter cab than you could sand by hand.

    Williams used this stuff on it's latter games that had super detailed silkscreened graphics.

    http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/industrial-panels/mdf-mdo-panels/roseburg-3-4-x-4-x-8-mdo-plywood/p-1444452506069-c-13338.htm?tid=8840372650345142831

    MDO-A_(resized).jpgMDO-A_(resized).jpg

    #147 7 years ago
    Quoted from jsa:

    Let's presume that I was using a 1 part oil-based primer like Kilz Original. I then used a semi-gloss oil-based paint for the top coat (i.e., the back of the back box, the top of the back box). The silk screen warning label then goes over that. Do you then clear over that?

    The original cab did not have any clear coat.

    So, it's up to you if you want to take it to "the next level".

    #149 7 years ago
    Quoted from jsa:

    I've been researching using Sherwin Williams paint but I'm not sure if they have a product that would work. For example, they have this:

    http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/all-surface-enamel-oil-base/?referringCategory=interior-paint-coatings/paint/&N=106978319

    Oil based paint in lighter colors tend to discolor (oil paints turn yellow).

    Maybe find a Latex paint that has a semi-gloss sheen?

    Quoted from jsa:

    I'm not sure I have the tools to do a 2 PACK style automotive paint so I'm trying to see how I could pull it off with a high quality home paint.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1668988

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1670975

    #151 7 years ago

    The black could be oil, but the purple will probably get ugly.

    Latex paint works great over Kilz Original

    #153 7 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    will a rustoleum-brand oil-based white paint turn yellow over time ?

    Yes, it will.

    1 week later
    #155 7 years ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    you mentioned earlier that Createx makes a good choice for paint (if you can't do the 2-part automotive stuff) but that it was relatively expensive. I am getting close to painting my first head, how much paint is usually required for a head? 8 ounces, quart, etc.
    Mark

    Createx paint is $80 a gallon, so I would not use it for basic colors like black or white.

    A quart of most colors would probably be plenty, with leftovers for touch ups.

    #158 7 years ago
    Quoted from Plumonium:

    Are you saying we should seal the wood before applying primer before painting the cabinet?

    Oil based primer won't raise the grain of the wood.

    2PAC primer won't either.

    Quoted from Plumonium:

    I see people applying decal right over top bare wood all the time.

    I sure hope people are not doing that.

    #161 7 years ago
    Quoted from Plumonium:

    If I'm going to give a coat of gloss or semi-gloss clear over my restored painted Pinbot, should I used low gross paint to give more teeth for the clear to bite?

    Yeah, use the lowest sheen paint they have.

    Like always, lightly sand the paint before clearing for tooth.

    2 weeks later
    #165 7 years ago
    Quoted from Plumonium:

    After priming with oil based primer, the veneer has splitted and raised at 2 places, about a inch and a half long. I can feel it lifted if I push on it. How to fix it?

    You can squirt glue under it and then clamp tightly overnight, or cut out the loose layer with a razor and bondo.

    #166 7 years ago
    Quoted from Mxzmark:

    there is a big ridge in a few spots at the edge where I put on too much paint.

    Normally, you lightly sand the ridges (that's called "easing the edge"), so they don't stand out in the finished cab.

    Quoted from Mxzmark:

    and some overspray

    Overspray is good.

    That is how most original cabs were.

    Pro restorers will strategically place some overspray to make the cab look stock.

    Quoted from Mxzmark:

    I even thought about wet sanding the whole cab and then clearcoating the whole thing but that might make it to glossy.

    You don't have to make clearcoat glossy.

    You can make it anything from matte to semi-gloss to full mirror.

    #169 7 years ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    EXCEPT - for this one gnarly scratch and some fading by the flippers. I have read the decal swap threads and it sounds like a monsterous undertaking. Any ideas on a good way to fix this? I was thinking:

    1. Isolate area
    2. Bondo the scratch and sand so area is level and even
    3. airbrush the blue with best paint match that i can

    Is this a good course of action? Any other recommendations are appreciated.

    Probably the best course is to just leave it alone.

    Just like a classic car, once you repaint it, it's boogered and no serious collector will ever buy it.

    But if you are hellbent on **fixing** it:

    Mask off the art with Frisket and lightly sand the entire blue field with 800grit (just like a car, you can't retouch a small area without it looking touched up).

    Bondo and feather the scratch.

    Respray the entire blue field.

    CAREFULLY knock the Frisket ridge off with 1200 grit.

    Play your game.

    #171 7 years ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    If i were to go with your proposed fix, should i just consider a full decal swap and cab resto?

    Decals are crap - and again, no serious collector will ever buy your game with decals on it.

    You game, as it sits, is 100x better than a game with decals.

    #173 7 years ago

    Even cabinets that had factory decals, like The Shadow, are total pieces of crap.

    The ops hated how quickly they got chewed up and looked like trash.

    #175 7 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Do I have any easy options for squaring up this cab?

    No easy fix for out of square.

    You could get a 24" framing square and find out where exactly it's out.

    Remove the inside gusset and tap that corner(s) open.

    Re-glue the corner and clamp.

    Then using a 5 foot Pony pipe clamp, diagonally pull the cab back into square.

    Use the framing square to check your work BEFORE the glue sets.

    framing-square_(resized).jpgframing-square_(resized).jpg

    #177 7 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    As far as tapping out the corner(s) would that be easier to if I got my industrial heat gun out and put some heat to it? These look like locking mitered corners. I don't want to make splinters.

    They ARE locking miters, so look at the top of the joint to see what direction you have to pound for release.

    Heat might not help, but it can't hurt to try.

    The glue is crummy on pin cabs, so a few blows against a 2x4 with a dead blow hammer is all it takes.

    (the only thing that could screw you is if a past owner re-glued the cab and that's why it's out of square in the first place. Real wood glue is tough stuff.....)

    #180 7 years ago
    Quoted from MarcelG:

    when you say 'easing the edges' (knocking off the ridges with 1200 grit), do you have a detailed procedure on how its done ?

    Just put some fine sandpaper on your finger or sanding block and knock down the edges that formed where the paint was masked off.

    Quoted from MarcelG:

    Do you attempt to polish out the scuff marks you just created with this process ?

    Often I clear the whole side, so the gloss is consistent.

    #182 7 years ago

    Yes, wet or fine sandpaper will clog

    1 week later
    #186 7 years ago
    Quoted from Plumonium:

    Should I clear the cabinet one side at the time facing up or it's OK to clear with the pin standing normal with the sides up?

    If you have ever painted a car, you can do the whole pin at once.

    If you have not, then do one side at a time facing up - you can't get a run that way.

    (even if you got a run somehow, just block sand it out and buff)

    If you have a Rotisserie, you can do 2 sides at a time, both face up

    #188 7 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    How do you give clear a matte finish? I can't get a good even polish so maybe thinking about going the other route. It might hide some of the imperfections on the one side which has issues.

    You would add a Flattening Agent to the clear.

    The same stuff you add when you want a matte finish for a section of an auto.

    -

    You can also buff out a gloss finish with Rottenstone or a higher number cutting compound. This will knock the gloss back to any amount you desire.

    5 months later
    #195 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cserold:

    Would you use the MC-161 2-PAC for this type of clear coating?

    Sure, it would be a very glossy topcoat.

    #196 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cserold:

    I just built a play field rotisserie using instructions from a thread on this site. Is there a thread that shows how to build a rotisserie for a cabinet? Thanks!

    This rotisserie would work for cabs too, as it easily expands to any length:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-quick-and-dirty-rotisserie-guide

    The only difference is you would leave off the L brackets so that you could attach the rotisserie to the center of gravity on the cab (otherwise it won't spin freely).

    4 weeks later
    #200 7 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Hey Vid!
    Can this be fixed or improved? These holes are to secure the backbox. It's a local FT I was considering picking up. Can the backbox be moved or adjusted so the holes line up? Thanks!

    From here, it looks like the bolt will thread in no problem.

    If not, then take the 3/8" bolt, thread it 1/2 way in and tap it with a hammer.

    The T-nut will pop off the back and can be reinstalled.

    #213 7 years ago

    I'd just chuck a 1/2" bit in a drill and ream out the backbox hole

    If you want to pull out the T-nut, thread it in from the bottom and wiggle it free.

    #215 7 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    do you think just the backbox bracket is enough to secure the backbox?

    Nope.

    Always get a bolt in there, or you will be sorry when it falls.

    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    So do you also think bad hinges are causing this issue?

    No.

    Just sloppy **craftsmanship** .

    These things were built like crap, because you would throw them away after 2-3 years.

    Over the years all this kind of stuff usually gets fixed along the way, but when they were NIB, they were crap.

    3 weeks later
    #223 6 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Vid,
    I know there are a lot better methods to painting the inside of the cabinet, but, Would it be OK to paint the inside of a cabinet with a paint brush or roller? I would like to freshen up the look inside but would rather not remove the playfield and I don't have tools needed to do it the most efficient way possible (spray gun)
    I just need to know if going the roller or pain brush route is something not totally crazy and would like to know if good results can be achieved? If so, What brand of paint do you use? Gloss or Semi? I already sanded the bottom and would like to paint the sides. Thanks Vid!

    It would be better to just leave it alone than painting the insides with a brush or roller.

    The value of your game will take a BIG hit when you try and sell it.

    #226 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Hey Vid -
    I am interpreting your comment to mean that painting specifically with a brush or roller has a negative impact - but painting in and of itself isn't necessarily bad. If it's a good spray job, the pin doesn't get a negative price impact. Yes?

    A serious collector can tell even if it's spray painted.

    There is a look to 40 year old painted wood, and new paint tends to look way too new.

    Every collector wants a real, silkscreened AFM cabinet. No one wants a cab covered with crappy stickers that you have to worry about them peeling, wrinkling or the ink wearing off.

    So the less it looks like you did to the cab, the more valuable it is.

    #229 6 years ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    I've never really understood that. I understand the "crappy" part, nobody wants that, but I sure don't see why a 40-year old peeling paintjob is considered "better" or more valuable than a new one, just because they painted it 40 years ago.

    Think of an old car.

    Every collector wants the original paint job.

    Even a car with a few scrapes and dings is worth more with the original paint than a repaint job.

    -

    If the cab is trashed, then you have to do what you have to do; but trying to make everything **perfect** only to make it look like a repaint is not good.

    Think of when you go to an expo, and walk down the rows. The repainted games never look like HEP, they just look like repaints.

    1 week later
    #238 6 years ago
    Quoted from aobrien5:

    The game isn't worth a lot. The playfield is factory mylared, so it's great, but everything else is pretty shot. The neck has already been repaired once and I don't really trust that either. It's scary moving a game where you can't lift from the neck or the bottom edge!

    Then it's time to knock out that back panel and replace it with a plywood piece.

    The scrap will probably be plenty to make a neck.

    #240 6 years ago

    I'd make a new neck - probably 10 minutes on the Tablesaw.

    The corner gussets are just pine - rip a 2x4 at 45 degrees on the saw.

    Paint it semi-gloss black and no one will ever know.

    #241 6 years ago

    Here, I have a cabinet corner that has separated.

    Pretty normal on any pinball cab, except that no amount of clamping will bring the two sides back together.

    I've cleaned out all the debris, but still, she resists all attempts at closing the gap.

    Because the corner is a structural joint, Bondo will chip out.

    Instead I'll fill it with Fiberglass Resin.

    image000000 (resized).jpgimage000000 (resized).jpg

    #243 6 years ago

    A lot of those games had particle board back panels, you know, it probably save them .50 cents.

    If you can't replace it, then all you can do is build an aluminum dam along the bottom and do a fiberglass repair.

    #245 6 years ago

    You can soda blast it

    #249 6 years ago

    Of course you can sand it, but you loose the burlap pattern from the MDF.

    #251 6 years ago
    Quoted from tiesmasc:

    So I just purchased a Shadow... I'm curious about what you think the best method is of repair the damage where the legs pressed up against the cabinet as shown in the below pictures (or whether to leave it alone and not worry about it).
    And after repair... the new metal style cabinet protectors or plastic (since this is screen print)?
    Thanks!

    The Shadow always looks terrible, lol. Yours looks pretty good.

    Airbrush in some fixes, but don't go too crazy trying to fix everything.

    New decals are available every now and then.

    #253 6 years ago

    I'd just paint where the decal wore through.

    The decals won't cleanly peel like new ones do.

    Look at this HEP section:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-restores-an-original-mm-the-original-way/page/5#post-3727936

    1 month later
    #261 6 years ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    How can I make this black look better? The whole front is all planked like this.
    Guessing acrylic black would look too flat.
    Testor's gloss black enamel paint? Semi gloss?
    Figured try smear technique, if not, paint?

    For a quick fix, just rub Createx black paint into the cracks with a lint-free rag. Allow to 1/2 dry, and then wipe the excess paint off the surface.

    You will keep your semi-gloss sheen, but get rid of the unsightly wood checking.

    3 weeks later
    #264 6 years ago
    Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

    I'm sure this has been covered but I couldn't find anything concrete. Suggestions from sharpie on up. I have flipper wear and some scratches all in the black. I don't want to just paint it and make it worse. What is the proper procedure and type of paint to use in this case. Thank you.

    Your cabinets are NOT the place to learn how much pressure your gun needs with any particular paint.

    Take the side panels off some old dead computers you have, and practice spraying the exact same paint, masking, sanding off the masking edge, and clearing over the whole thing.

    Just like on a car, spot painting is the hardest thing to do.

    A pro would:

    Sand and feather scratches, prime bare wood, mask off other colors, paint all large black areas a single shade of black, remove masking, sand any masked edge lines with 800, then clear the whole thing in semi-gloss so it all has the same sheen.

    1 week later
    #267 6 years ago

    Oil based Killz will stop any stains in the bottom from leaching back through to the paint.

    #269 6 years ago

    Oil Killz is bad assed stuff.

    The only thing better is 2-part high fill primer.

    #273 6 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Vid any tips on fixing or replacing the bottom panel on games from cracks or issues?

    I've been waiting for a warped bottom to come in so I could take some pics.

    Rout off 2 of the bottom lips from the cab, then just stand on the bottom, so it drops out.

    Use the old bottom for a template, and cut a new one from 1/4" Baltic Birch plywood (Menards).

    Use 2 pieces of wood "Window Screen Molding" to replace the lost lips.

    #274 6 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Vid,
    When priming and painting the inside of the cabinet, Do you sand between each application of primer and paint? How long do you wait? What sand paper (grit) should be used? Thanks Vid!

    Most primers you don't have to sand, check the label.

    400grit is good, use 200 if you need to feather out deep gouges (or fill them with Bondo).

    #276 6 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    How about for the paint? Is it better to sand between each coat or apply all coats (plan on doing 3 coats) withing a few minutes from each other?

    Depends on the paint.

    Some 2K paints, you can recoat 20 minutes apart without sanding.

    See what the label says about recoat times before you shoot that 2nd coat.

    3 weeks later
    #280 6 years ago

    Yes, I'd reglue it with Tightbond3.

    Scrape off any loose Lead Paint outdoors into a trash bag. You don't want that in your house.

    #282 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    What would you scrape it off with, a wire brush? I can dispose of the brush after doing this.
    Thanks,
    Bruce

    You don't have to get too crazy, just remove the loose stuff so it does not flake off inside the house.

    Wire brush, flexible drywall scraper, sandpaper.....just don't breath the dust, or let it blow into your garden.

    Spray some Kilz to lock down the remainder and you are miles ahead of where you were a few minutes before.

    #284 6 years ago

    Mask off anything that you don't want covered in tough Kilz overspray.

    You can put burned out bulbs in the sockets and just spray away, I do that in playfields all the time.

    1 week later
    #286 6 years ago
    Quoted from tezting:

    Hi,
    Is important to remove all the old black paint from the inside of the cabinet before priming?

    No, if the paint is solid, then it can be sanded for tooth and painted over.

    2 weeks later
    #291 6 years ago
    Quoted from lordloss:

    Hey Vid, how do we know which birch MDF would be best for a new cabinet?

    4x8 has a better yield than 5x5 for a pinball cab.

    And you don't even need Birch since we want MDF on both faces.

    If you are in the States, Menards stocks MDO plywood of great quality.

    https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/industrial-panels/mdf-mdo-panels/roseburg-3-4-x-4-x-8-mdo-plywood/p-1444452506069-c-13338.htm?tid=-1100778860012755699&ipos=7

    #301 6 years ago
    Quoted from Lovef2k:

    Hey Vid, going back to where you mention sanding high edges of paint after stenciling. I'm doing a EBD with Pimp stencils. The black base color is rustoleum gloss. The colors are custom mixed Hedrix gloss lacquer rattle cans. Although it's not real bad, I can feel the edges of the stenciled area with my fingers. I'm nervous about sanding the edges. My worry is that it will dull the paint and/or cause the lighter colors to mix with the black.

    Take some of the leftover paint and do a "test panel".

    You will instantly get a feel for the find touch that makes the cabinet feel factory.

    #303 6 years ago
    Quoted from Lovef2k:

    Will the clear coat bring back the shine of the paint? I typically use Deft satin lacquer. Although, I might go semi on this one.

    Doing a top coat gives all the paint layers the same sheen.

    Gives it a great look.

    #306 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    I've already vacuumed the inside of the backbox. Is there a clear spray I can use to spray and lock down the inside walls of the backbox?

    I'd just leave it original.

    That looks how a game that age should look.

    If you spray clear, it will look 2x as dirty, believe me.

    #310 6 years ago
    Quoted from Lovef2k:

    Can I fix this without having to strip off the entire front of the cab without it looking like ass? I have a new stencil coming tomorrow if I have to. For some reason the paint didn't stick on the lower left corner, even the glossy part of the black was lifted.Weird. Had no issues with the sides.

    Sure, tape if off with a straightedge and painter's tape (or Frisket for the curves) and touch up your spray.

    #314 6 years ago
    Quoted from tezting:

    I am doing the cabinet for my T2.
    The wood under the backbox that are attached to the cabinet. Should that be bondoet flat with the cabinet or should it still be visible that it's two pices of wood? (Still black on image)

    If you want to keep it stock looking, then keep it 2 piece.

    If you want it to look "worked on" then Bondo the gap.

    #317 6 years ago

    Large cracks you can fill with Wood Epoxy log:

    516lFNyQMWL (resized).jpg516lFNyQMWL (resized).jpg

    Cracks under 3mm you can just fill with Bondo.

    #319 6 years ago

    Yeah, fiberglass is your best option.

    All the wood log putty stuff is nice to fill gaps, but it does not bond all that well with the wood, and does not have any real strength. The fact it sands so easily tells you that it's weak.

    The fiberglass resin flows into nooks and is tough; very hard to sand.

    3 weeks later
    #338 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    There seem to be many different "Bondo" wood fillers. Will any of them work or do I need a specific one? How about this one at Home Depot?
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bondo-12-fl-oz-Wood-Filler-30081/206680651
    Thanks,
    Bruce

    They all do different things.

    The FIBERGLASS RESIN by Bondo is what you use to fill large areas that need strength - like missing corners and gaps between panels.

    The BODY FILLER by Bondo is weak, easy to sand stuff you use to patch small holes and deep scratches in the cab.

    #339 6 years ago
    Quoted from xeneize:

    So, I haul everything back to the booth and respray the cab sides (horizontally again). As a matter of process, all four sides were wiped with Naptha to remove slurry/debris after wet sanding with 800 grit. Now, the sides feel smooth, but the front feels gritty - maddening because it felt fine before I shot clear on the sides again.
    Will you please help me understand this phenomenon? Is wiping down with Naptha doing something to make the surface feel rough to the touch? Do I need to simply cut and polish with compounds, then wax?
    It's bizarre because the stencils are completely buried in the clear, but the surface of the front panel, is now no longer slick to the touch.
    As always, thanks for sharing both your humor and expertise!

    It's probably just overspray.

    Or it could be dieback where the clear shrinks a few days after spraying.

    Either way, block-sand it flat, and then polish to the amount of sheen you desire.

    #340 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Does the Kilz spray take longer to dry in your experience if the weather is cold or rainy? I read the instructions and googled it. Seems it's not a good idea or you need to heat the space first.
    I need to spray the backbox light panel in an unheated shed and the weather in my area is getting a low of 38 degrees with about 57 to 73 high.
    Thanks,
    Bruce

    Everything takes longer to cure in cooler temperatures.

    #342 6 years ago

    I use old bulbs.

    Every game has tons of dead ones.

    #344 6 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Vid, Im going to build a WPC cabinet for my FT using 3/4" MDO...what is the proper bit/blade to cut the corner joints for maximum strength.

    http://www.rockler.com/rockler-45-deg-lock-miter-router-bits-1-2-in-shank

    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    also any tips on drilling the leg holes so everything lines up with the leg and plate?

    You can use a leg clamped to the machine as your hole guide.

    22627-01-1000 (resized).jpg22627-01-1000 (resized).jpg

    #346 6 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    I used 1/4" plywood to replace the bottom of an older 80s bally....is that what I should use on a WPC Fish Tales cab as well?

    Yes.

    Menards has 1/4" Baltic Birch in stock if you want some amazing plywood.

    #348 6 years ago
    Quoted from Silverstreak02:

    Vid I'm restoring a 1965 Crosstown and have run into a problem with the cabinet. I sanded off the old paint, bonded all the dents, then did primer and white paint. I was happy with the results and decided to let it sit in the house for a few months before I painted the stripes. I should mention this game was on someone's carport when I bought it and then spent a couple of months in my garage during the paint process. It is hot and humid here. After a few weeks in the house I noticed a crack that went all the way through the wood. I attributed it to the wood drying out and decided to let it sit. It's been a couple of months now and the original crack has gotten bigger and another crack has developed. What can I do to fix the cracks and prevent them from getting bigger?

    Probably after 50 years of being sealed up, it got sanded and humidity expanded the wood. Now in the dry house the wood shrank.

    Is it cracked all the way to the next layer of wood?

    #355 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hardsuit:

    If you were going to build a new cab from scratch, what would be the best type of plywood to use? Domestic baltic birch, MDO plywood, bamboo ply, etc?

    MDO plywood is the best.

    Ready to paint, no sanding or priming or filling grain - yet still lightweight because it's plywood.

    #361 6 years ago

    Yeah, if a layer of wood is loose and can be lifted, glue it down and clamp.

    Then just Bondo the crack.

    #363 6 years ago
    Quoted from mojonitro:

    Vid, great blog!
    I have a simple (I hope) question. What's the best way to remove the top metal trim from the long side of the cab? What are they fastened down with? Can you reuse the fasteners(nails?), or must they be replaced? If replaced, who has them?
    Any tricks in reattaching them?
    Jim

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/removing-side-rails-vids-guide

    #365 6 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Thanks vid....I almost got it, just need a tad bit of adjustment and it should be perfect...
    some scrap testing...you can see where it comes together on the inside is still a bit off, another slight fence adjustment and I should be good.

    Looking good!

    Once you get it perfect, save 2 perfect scraps from each side, and those become your set up gauges in the future.

    Saves about 15 minutes of BS every time.

    1 week later
    #369 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    You can see the corner brace is missing on the left. I'm making a replacement to match the one on the right. Would you just nail the replacement brace in or titebond3 or both? The backbox is still pretty sturdy for it's age.

    In cabinetry, nails are just to pin a piece in place until the glue dries. Tightbond3 for sure, followed by an airnail/airstaple or two.

    If you don't have an air stapler or nailer, clamp until the glue is dry.

    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Also, would you do anything with the top of the backbox in second photo? The rest of the backbox/cabinet paint is still good. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to improve the top part but keep it as original as possible?

    Is this a finish question or structure question?

    #371 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Should I leave it as is or is there something I can do to improve it? I'd like to keep the original patina as much as I can to match the rest of the game and eventually put some kind of thin light lacquer finish over the cabinet paint to seal/protect it.

    I'd leave it alone.

    If you keep it in a climate controlled environment from now on, it won't get any worse.

    1 week later
    #375 6 years ago

    Take the Kilz up to the hardware store and have them put it on the shaker for 10 minutes.

    It should spray out of a HVLP no problem at all, no thinning required.

    #381 6 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Vid,
    What's the best way to remove the glue left behind by the cabinet decals? Sand or scrape? Thanks!

    Each brand of decal has it's own glue formula, so try a few common solvents and see what kills it.

    Acetone, Mineral Spirits, Lacquer Thinner, MEK

    If it's still sticky, believe it or not WD40 actually makes many decal adhesives roll up into balls.

    #385 6 years ago

    Car bondo is easy to sand.

    #387 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Structure question to be sure before I glue in the new wood braces for good.
    The backbox seems strong enough for it's age when I wiggle and test it even if it's a little warped on the bottom from drinks being spilled over the years.
    Anything else I should do other than gluing the wood braces in and calling it a day?

    Sand slightly under the braces so you can open up the wood fibers for gluing.

    Make sure you keep the box square as the glue dries - very important.

    #389 6 years ago

    If you use your table saw as a gluing base, you will be certain that you have a SQUARE set up.

    #391 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    I don't have a table saw or equipment like that. I can use angles to be sure it's square when I glue the bottom braces in unless you suggest a different solution.

    That will work, just make sure it's square before the glue sets.

    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Would you recommend 400 or 600 grit wood sandpaper for sanding where the braces will be glued?

    120 or 220 grit, you need to open those ancient wood pores to let the glue in.

    Just sand under the joint, so it does not look like you worked on it when dry.

    You can use a brace as a sanding block and get both sides at once.

    1 week later
    #396 6 years ago
    Quoted from xeneize:

    vid1900 Is there a secret to spraying a "perfect" coat of PPG 2PAC?

    Every time I do a cabinet, I end up with a few runs on a panel or two which result in more sanding and reclearing. It's time consuming and expensive.

    Any time you get a run, it tells you that you have sprayed on too much clear, too fast.

    2PAC dries so fast, spray two thin coats 20 minutes apart, rather than flood coating and running.

    Or if you really want to lay down heavy coats, do only one panel at a time, face up. 20 minutes latter, turn the rotisserie 180* and do the other side.

    #398 6 years ago

    Regular playfield rotisserie is easily adapted to cab use, or guitar finishing, or.....

    If you think about it, the "black pipe rotisserie" plans came from a cabinet refinishing book in the 1990s.

    1 week later
    #410 6 years ago
    Quoted from spinal:

    What is the best way to clean inside glass guides on each side of cabinet? (Pic of Gottlieb C37)

    A straight sided, standard screwdriver (sometimes called a "gunsmith" screwdriver), scrapes all that dried beer and blood right out.

    Follow with a damp rag on the screwdriver, and you have a nice, non gritty slide.

    xl_354008001_2 (resized).jpgxl_354008001_2 (resized).jpg

    #412 6 years ago
    Quoted from tflick:

    Second, should I use a high grit wet sand before applying the clear?

    Of course.

    You need to knock off the edges from the stencil and give the clear some tooth to stick to.

    1 month later
    #417 6 years ago

    You don't need the clear between each layer.

    Fresh paints of the same brand usually stick to each other pretty good for a week or so.

    If you use 800-1000 to ease your edges, you will not sand through. Just take it easy.

    #419 6 years ago

    It will say on the data sheet now many days you have to add more coats without sanding.

    1 month later
    #438 6 years ago
    Quoted from RoyGBev:

    Can I cut a new piece of plywood and replace it? I realize I will need to cut vent holes in the new panel. The lower cabinet rear panel, which I know is definitely particle board, appears not to be damaged at all.

    You can use the old particle board back as a router template to cut the vents in the new plywood back.

    You want a Pattern Bit for your router.

    405377.0 (resized).jpg405377.0 (resized).jpg

    #439 6 years ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    Anyone have ideas on the rot? Do I need to get all of it out of there? my fear is that as I sand I keep finding more below a harder top layer of wood.

    Like Dasvis said, some Wood Hardener will soak into the soft wood and toughen him up.

    It may take a few coats, don't worry.

    401443 (resized).jpg401443 (resized).jpg

    1 week later
    #444 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballFever:

    Long topic to look through but will this respirator also protect you against chemicals, spray paint etc or just lead paint? What would you use for chemicals/spraying paint?

    This one will do both.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Large-Paint-Project-Respirator-Mask-6311PA1-A/100195886

    #450 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    This thread (and the other guides!) never fail to disappoint -
    I've got a WPC cabinet with scratches/gouges in the side art; what is the best way to level these down and fill prior to repainting? The scratching does not extend to the wood, it is just the art and vinyl underlayment.

    You can fill them any number of ways. Bondo, drip in 2PAC, or whatever can you have open.

    If you have nothing, they buying the Bondo is probably the cheapest.

    #451 6 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Vid,
    I got my IJ cabinet primed and sanded and ready to install the decals. My plan is to paint all corners and edges black where the decals will be trimmed off. My question is: Will the primed, unpainted surface on the rest of the cabinet show through the decals? Do I really have to paint the whole cabinet? I used Kilz primer (White color) and I got good quality decals from Mr. Pinball. Thanks!

    The rough primed surface will not stick as well as the semi-gloss painted surface.

    #456 6 years ago

    Most 2PAC has UV blocker added to it.

    Window film is easier, and removable if needed.

    #458 6 years ago

    You can get DIY window film at the home center.

    I did my bedroom windows with Limo Black to keep the daylight from waking me.

    1 week later
    #463 5 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    vid1900 - any suggestions on thinning the Kilz Oil primer for use in the HF HVLP gun?
    I prime my cabinet with a roller+brush.. but just could not get it perfectly flat sanding (too many pits/pockets) without taking most of the primer out too. So I now I need to spray it, but Kilz's says not to thin it... yet it seems all the craftsman do... Any suggestions on ratios?

    Thin it with Mineral Spirits.

    You can take one of those $10 purple HVLP guns and make it shoot primer without thinning if you want:

    #469 5 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    yeah but starting with what kind of ratio? Can't see mixing, loading, unloading, mixing more load, unload, etc
    Not sure what's the way to dial that in..

    I see what you mean.

    You use those little plastic Viscosity Cups that are like $2 at any paint store.

    Usually a #4 cup (sometimes called "4 Ford") is what you use. If paint runs through the bottom hole, it will fire fine from a HVLP with a 1.2 or 2mm tip.

    Vid's bad advice: Guys doing auto work will measure the length of time required for the whole cup to run with a stopwatch, but for pinwork, you can just eyeball it (if it flows, it blows....).

    viscositycuppour201-225x300 (resized).jpgviscositycuppour201-225x300 (resized).jpg
    ViscosityCup-200x300 (resized).jpgViscosityCup-200x300 (resized).jpg

    #471 5 years ago

    Those cabs were trash, even when they were new.

    Let's see some pics

    #473 5 years ago

    ^ There is quite a bit of swelling on that cab.

    I'd probably replace the 3/4" T-molding with 1" and trim it back.

    #475 5 years ago
    Quoted from codered9394:

    Have any idea on the front corner of the lower cab.

    Fiberglass Resin will hold to that rough surface.

    #478 5 years ago

    Any glossy finish is going to look out of place on an EM.

    Try to match the very low gloss look of the original.

    See all those tiny divots in the finish? Those will be amplified by a high gloss finish.

    That game is looking great!

    4 months later
    #482 5 years ago

    Now that's a repair that won't chip off the moment you bump a corner!

    1 week later
    #487 5 years ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    From another post I learned I can't spray primer through the HVLP gun, is it worth buying another purple HVLP gun for primer? Or just go rattle can?

    Those guns are $9 so grab another and open up the orifice for primer.

    You can buy 2.0 tips, but since they are $18, I gotta say just drill one out to 2.0 .

    Rattle Can primer can tragically react with everything under the sun, 2part primer rocks.

    #489 5 years ago

    REPAIRING A SPLIT CABINET

    ======================

    You guys are still flooding my inbox with cab corner questions.

    Let's do one with some crummy cell phone pictures (because I did not expect to be fixing a cab).

    -

    EVERY single pinball cabinet from back-in-the-day has been repaired.

    Yep, every single one.

    When nubies say "New cabs are junk! I have a Whitewater that's 30 years old and all 4 corners are solid!" that's because a previous operator has already repaired it - possibly several times. Brand new games, right out of the box, would often already have a split corner from shipping. Us OPs would not cry and call Williams about it, we would just glue it back together and deploy it the next day.

    The open top box, is probably the weakest structure you can design out of wood. Think of a shoebox; without the lid, it flexes easily in every direction.

    Take the weakest design, fill it with 300 lbs of stuff, and then bounce it across the country in a cardboard box.....

    -

    1. Prop the game up on a Pin-lift or on 2 milk crates you've stolen from behind 7/11.

    2. Remove the leg(s)
    1 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg

    Here you can see the typical separated corner, and the typical milk crates.

    #490 5 years ago

    3. Open up the joint.

    You can use 2 flat bladed screwdrivers, or wood shims or just reverse one jaw on your bar clamp and turn it into a spreader

    You have to open up the joint to vac it out, and to get glue to the center of the wood.

    The cab will creak as the joint opens, but you won't hurt anything.

    Use a paint scraper and make sure there is no wood fragments or other crud stuck in the joint - there is always something.

    4. Once the joint is vacuumed out, do a dry run and clamp the joint shut.

    The dry run will do 2 things:

    a. Make sure your joint is totally cleaned out (if the joint does not close 100%, you've got more cleaning to do).

    b. Make sure the joint clamps back squarely.

    Use a Framing Square to test the corner for **squareness**.

    johnson-carpenter-squares-cs5-64_1000 (resized).jpgjohnson-carpenter-squares-cs5-64_1000 (resized).jpg

    If small 36" clamps can't push the cab square or close the gap on the front, you will need 5 foot Pony clamps to pull towards the back.

    Every joint breaks in a different way, so that's why we do a dry run.

    #491 5 years ago

    Here you can see that the other front corner had been repaired some time in the past:
    2 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpg

    Whoever did it, did it correctly, and the joint is almost perfectly square.

    Had they glued it out of square, it would add to our problems of squaring up the other corner...sometimes you have to break the badly glued joint to square it up.

    #493 5 years ago

    4. Pick the CORRECT glue!

    Epoxy is the weakest glue on wood. It does not absorb into the wood, it just sits on the surface.

    Anybody recommending you use Epoxy to glue wood, especially a cabinet joint (OMFG), is a 100% nubie.

    The moment you put an Epoxy joint back on route, it cracks.

    Then the crack is full of Epoxy, so real wood glue will no longer hold either.

    You have to take the whole panel off and remove all the Epoxy. A simple repair turned into a 3 hour project because some idiot decided to use Epoxy...

    We need real glue, made for wood.

    The best wood glue that everyone can buy, anywhere, is Titebond 3. It's cheap, they have it at ACE, Menards, HD or Lowes.

    Get a fresh bottle, if it's covered in dust, get another.

    jjjjcx (resized).jpgjjjjcx (resized).jpg

    Don't bother with Gorilla Glue, it foams up into a big mess, and sometimes simply fails on a wood joint.

    And if it does fail (as if often does when people build subwoofers with it), the joint is contaminated, just like if you used Epoxy.

    It's messy, it's unpredictable, it's expensive and makes it tough to repair in the future - I'd simply avoid it.

    -

    Hide Glue (the stuff they originally used at the factory) is applied hot and as soon as it cools, it's cured. This glue is flexible and pretty strong, but the time saved by it's quick cure is kinda lost when you have to wait for the stuff to heat up. If you want to be authentic you can use it, but Titebond is stronger and less of a headache to use.

    #494 5 years ago

    Always check the inside Gusset.

    If the Gusset came off from the sides, it did not get enough glue at the factory, and you can just glue it back on.

    But if it's cracked down the middle, it's best to chisel it off (don't use your $$$$ chisels, because there is always a staple somewhere in it), and cut a new one.

    Put your table saw on 45 degrees and cut a bunch of replacements for this and future game repair .
    IMG_20180922_230054558 (resized).jpgIMG_20180922_230054558 (resized).jpg

    In this pic, you can see the staple from the factory just barely hit the Gusset. That's Williams quality for ya.

    #495 5 years ago

    5. Glue up

    Here is the big moment.

    Once you apply the glue, the clock starts ticking.

    Don't look at your phone, don't let your boyfriend talk to you, keep your head on straight.

    You already did your dry run, so you KNOW the joint will clamp up squarely and you know how many clamps you will need.

    Use an Acid Brush, to apply glue to 100% of the joint on both sides.

    ind;l;l;ex (resized).jpgind;l;l;ex (resized).jpg

    Apply more glue than necessary, it's cheap, and any extra will simply squeeze out and get wiped away.

    Make sure your clamping leaves room to wipe the extra glue away.

    Use a damp (not wet) cloth to wipe away the extra.

    How do you know if you used enough glue?

    You are looking for a 100% Squeezeout once clamping pressure is applied:

    4 (resized).jpg4 (resized).jpg

    Even on the inside, we want a 100% Squeeze out, the sign of a quality glue joint:

    6 (resized).jpg6 (resized).jpg

    Wipe up any excess and check for squareness one last time before you let the joint sit overnight.

    6. Once the joint is dry the next day, put the leg back on the game.

    If you installed a new Gusset, drill it out with an 3/8" drill bit, using the outside cab holes as your guide.

    #496 5 years ago

    7. Clamps you may need:

    Pony Pipe Clamps fit on either 3/4" or 1/2" common "black pipe"

    Since Black Pipe is a common hardware store item, you can have 24", 36" 50" or 72" pipe ready in the shop for any size job.

    Or if you suddenly find you need a larger clamp, you can run out and grab any length of pipe you need.

    50" black pipe is a good size if you need to clamp the front to back.

    You can reverse them and make them into a spreader, too.

    You can get real USA Pony, or Chinese knock offs at HF

    https://www.amazon.com/PONY-50-Clamp-Fixture-Black/dp/B0000224C9/ref=sr_1_1

    https://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-3-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-cast-iron-pipe-clamp-31255.html

    52-2 (resized).jpg52-2 (resized).jpg

    "F" clamps are common bar clamps. A 36" is a good size for the front of a cab.

    Most units have a thumb screw on the fixed end, allowing it to be reversed into a spreader

    s-l225 (resized).jpgs-l225 (resized).jpg

    #498 5 years ago
    Quoted from 29REO:

    Kwik Poly
    kwikpolyllc.com/
    It will NEVER come apart. It's a two part mix with a small cure window but the advantage is that it can be poured into any small opening and it will fill every void in there. It can even be poured over rotted wood and it will fill and encase it creating a sort of plastic replacement of what was there.

    When you Google Kwik Poly, this is the first image that comes up:

    quick poly (resized).jpgquick poly (resized).jpg
    2 weeks later
    #508 5 years ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    Just an FYI from one of the pics in this post. You should always clamp using a block.
    The block does two things:
    1. Protects work piece from indentations from the clamp face. You don't have to over-tighten to get indentations. Softer woods and plywoods often are not hard enough to accept suitable clamping pressure.
    2. Distributes the clamping pressure more uniformly over a larger area. In this case, I would have a simple 2x4 cut to the length of the cab joint and apply multiple clamps.
    One of the most common errors, if not the most common error, in woodworking is not appropriately applying clamps. Hint: there is no such thing as too many clamps.

    Yep blocks (called Cauls by us woodworkers) help bring even pressure across a panel.

    When I did the test run (before applying glue), the parts locked perfectly together with no gaps at all with the clamps as shown.

    So I did not want to "fake it" when that is exactly all the repair needed.

    I've had other games that needed 5 total clamps & 2 Cauls to resquare the cab, so it's not one size fits all.

    I once fixed a cab with 2 ratchet straps and some waxed paper around the corner to keep the glue from forever sticking the the straps.

    It was in a restaurant and I did not have any tools with me except the straps, lol. The owner had some Elmers glue. Still holding to this day.

    I've got a SBM in the shop right now with the whole front panel off, I'll see what it takes to fix it, and post pics (of course).

    2 weeks later
    #510 5 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    Two questions:

    How do you properly remove the metal security plate from a classic Bally?

    How do you quickly remove the panel? (since there isn't a need for these in home use)

    It depends on if you are going to reuse it.

    If you are just making a new ghetto plate (usually out of a door kicker plate), then just pry it up with a screwdriver, then pull the staples out with a pair of Vise-Grips

    If you need to reuse it, put a heavy scraper under the plate and slowly lift it up, puling staples as you go.

    #512 5 years ago

    A router with an edge guide can remove 1/8" of the plywood lip on one side. Easily replaced latter.

    Or just sandblast it in place and reprime and repaint

    #514 5 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    Thanks for confirming. I was hoping there was a super secret way of removing this. I'll have to weigh my options for doing this.

    Just like if I'm replacing the entire bottom, I rout off 1/8" lip from two adjoining side of the bottom of the cab.

    Easily replaced by wooden "windown screen molding" from the home center

    1 month later
    #518 5 years ago

    ^ that's going to be a big job!

    If it's your first pin, I'd play and enjoy it for a while, as is.

    Then after a year, you could get a stencil kit if you totally love the game.

    #521 5 years ago
    Quoted from McSquid:

    The non pinball internet says popcicle sticks and wood putty. Would this be a better job for fiberglass resin?

    Wood putty will shrink way too much.

    I'd clean up the edges and scarf in a piece of plywood.

    Fill gaps with fiberglass resin, skim with easy to sand Bondo.

    Quoted from lordloss:

    Vid, the local birch plywood(wanted to try this route before MDO, is the standard plywood sizing. So the 3/4" is not the full 3/4".

    The old williams cabinets had the full 3/4" wood. Is this something I can somewhat easily find or should I try and just use the 23/32”?

    Some real plywood wholesalers have 3/4" Baltic Birch, but you don't need anything fancy for this patch.

    Find some MDF that's 3/4" and patch it in.

    3 weeks later
    #523 5 years ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    I just got a Flash project, and I noticed some wierd splinter on the side of the cabinet. The inside doesn't show anything so it wasn't bent/broken. Any ideas on what would be a good way to go on this?

    That's some nice checking you got in that top layer.

    Poke under with an awl and see if there is a void.

    If not, then lift, glue and clamp. Bondo any remaining hole.

    If a void, fill with fiberglass resin (lay cab on it's side and fill void).

    #526 5 years ago
    Quoted from hisokajp:

    well slight separated corner... i'll to see what the inside looks like next *_*
    [quoted image]

    Snip off the nail brads and it should be an easy re-glue.

    At least most the damage is under the leg!

    2 years later
    #654 3 years ago

    drill press with a V-block will let you make the new inside brace.

    Make a v-block if you don't have one, on the table saw

    3 weeks later
    #658 3 years ago

    The king of all cabinet sprayers.

    I have done thousands of playfields, cabs and autos with it.

    Buy 2 and slightly enlarge the nozzle hole on one of them, so you can spray heavy 2-part primers
    4084_ITEM_20_OZ__HVLP_GRAVITY_FEED_SPRAY_GUN_1612732111.4318 (resized).jpg4084_ITEM_20_OZ__HVLP_GRAVITY_FEED_SPRAY_GUN_1612732111.4318 (resized).jpg

    If you get distracted, and some 2-part hardens in the gun; you just throw it in the trash. It would not be worth $10 of your time to try and clean it, lol

    1 week later
    #662 3 years ago
    Quoted from alexmogil:

    Based upon recommendations in this thread I have been using and I am planning on continuing to use Kilz oil based primer (and I have found a formula for spraying in a smaller nozzle HVLP gun with 30% naphtha that I will be testing).

    Can I use a somewhat cheaper LACQUER based HVLP auto paint on top of oil based primer? Will there be adhesion issues? If lacquer auto paint isn't good for this, what is the best laying sprayable paint to put on top of Kilz, specifically for eventual decaling?

    You can spray Lacquer or Latex over the KILZ.

    If you have never shot Lacquer before, just shoot Latex, no need to get fancy.

    #663 3 years ago
    Quoted from JRC6000:

    Any thoughts on removing paint that has been applied over the original? Is sanding the only way to go or is there another way to remove the paint that would allow you to see the original design first? Seems to me I remember something about a chemical that could be used to remove the top paint, but can't seem to find that in any of the threads. Thanks!

    Of course it depends on what kind of paint, right?

    latex sometimes you can warm with a heat gun and just peel away

    Epoxy paint is going to need Aircraft stripper, lacquer can be stripped with Acetone or Bix,

    You need to do a test area, and see what you are working with, keeping the original can be tricky unless the topcoat is something dissimilar

    The worse the painter's prep work, the better for you!

    1 month later
    #712 2 years ago

    It looks like too much ply has lifted to just glue back down.

    You could peel off the delamination, then Bondo.

    But if it was mine, I would just replace the back with a new piece of plywood.

    Copy the vents to the new piece with a router pattern bit.

    #715 2 years ago

    Yep, and some cabs were plywood, but with a thin MDF overlay (like Whitewater). That gave a pre-primed, no sanding needed, surface that was ready to screen.

    You never know what you'll get....

    1 week later
    #726 2 years ago
    Quoted from Dono:

    Question... working on a GTB Fast Draw... one of the cabinet sides has a warp that has pulled away from the bottom supports about a half inch... any tips on reducing or reversing the warp? Was thinking a hot wet towel on the inside of the cab wall and pull in with a half dozen pipe clamps overnight or a few days? The warp runs about 2 feet and really shows at the bottom of cab, and less at the top.
    Any problems with this idea, or other tips?
    Thanks!

    You'll probably need to bolt a 1/4" angle iron down the length

    #729 2 years ago
    Quoted from Dono:

    Vid, would you suggest bolting onto both the struts and side?

    Probably just the side.

    But if you can bolt it to the struts without splitting them, that certainly couldn't hurt to do that too

    #736 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    Question for the smart people:
    Typical Bally water damage here. I’m going to replace the back of the head, but can the back of the cabinet body be saved? It’s that gross particle board and it seems like it’s separating.
    Worth saving, or replace?[quoted image][quoted image]

    If you have a table saw, way quicker to replace it with more durable plywood

    #738 2 years ago

    I usually cut straight down the center, with my circ saw set for 3/4" depth.

    Then use the leverage and hammer to wiggle the rotten particle board out.

    Clean out any broken cleats with Sharp chisel, but not your expensive ones, as sometimes there are hidden nails

    1 month later
    #740 2 years ago
    Quoted from minifrizzle:

    Second, one side of the neck tore a nasty gash out of the (unfortunately MDF based) cabinet side, is this fixable and if so how?

    Fiberglass and Resin would fix it, but if it were mine, I'd cut a new back from plywood.

    Quoted from minifrizzle:

    The part I'm struggling with today is the neck with two main issues. First, it appears damaged right around where the hinges/bolts attach, is this something that needs to be/can be fixed, if so how?

    All the material seems to be there.

    Inject some wood glue, and clamp overnight

    1 week later
    #746 2 years ago
    Quoted from nerdygrrl:

    I am going to start this guy next week. Given the damage it seems fiberglass resin is the way to go. I do have a question about filling the lock down bar holes with resin. Should I toss a dowel in there first? Do I just pour the resin in? If so how should I seal the bottom? Thanks in advance.[quoted image]

    Nice!

    Yes, you can put a dowel slice in the RH hole and a chunk of wood or fiberglass cloth in the other.

    Seal the back with a sheet of wax paper and plywood clamped firmly in place

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