(Topic ID: 132130)

Cabinet Restoration - Vid's Guide

By vid1900

8 years ago


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    Topic index (key posts)

    8 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

    Post #1 Wear a respirator when sanding old paint Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #2 Repairing large missing wood chunks with fiberglass resin Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #24 Primer and Paint commentary Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #103 Repairing separated corners Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

    Post #145 Wood selection Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

    Post #273 Steps to replace a cabinet bottom Posted by vid1900 (6 years ago)

    Post #344 Proper Router Bit for Creating Corner Joints on Cabinets. Posted by vid1900 (6 years ago)

    Post #489 Separated Corners on Cabinets and How to Repair Them. Posted by vid1900 (5 years ago)


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    #296 6 years ago

    Hey Vid, going back to where you mention sanding high edges of paint after stenciling. I'm doing a EBD with Pimp stencils. The black base color is rustoleum gloss. The colors are custom mixed Hedrix gloss lacquer rattle cans. Although it's not real bad, I can feel the edges of the stenciled area with my fingers. I'm nervous about sanding the edges. My worry is that it will dull the paint and/or cause the lighter colors to mix with the black.

    #302 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Take some of the leftover paint and do a "test panel".
    You will instantly get a feel for the find touch that makes the cabinet feel factory.

    Will the clear coat bring back the shine of the paint? I typically use Deft satin lacquer. Although, I might go semi on this one.

    #307 6 years ago

    Can I fix this without having to strip off the entire front of the cab without it looking like ass? I have a new stencil coming tomorrow if I have to. For some reason the paint didn't stick on the lower left corner, even the glossy part of the black was lifted.Weird. Had no issues with the sides.

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    #313 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Sure, tape if off with a straightedge and painter's tape (or Frisket for the curves) and touch up your spray.

    I guess I can try that.

    3 years later
    #687 3 years ago

    I'm getting ready to do my first cab decal replacement. Machine is a 1984 Spy Hunter. My worry is that the cab is not plywood, I'm guessing MDF or some cheap flake board. My main concern is not letting the wood swell or become bumpy since my new decals are glossy. Which chemicals can I get away with for removing the decal glue? Naptha, Acetone, Goof Off to avoid selling?

    #692 3 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    I would never have thought they did that back in 84.

    Bally Midway started it with the 3rd gen EBD, Spy, KOS. Heavy ass particle cab and head.

    #693 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    You have vinyl covered wood.. that they then screen printed onto. Not decals that are stuck on.
    The vinyl can separate from the wood and you get what looks like decals bunching up, etc.

    I guess that explains the way they faded so bad? What do you mean by "decals bunching up"?

    I watched a youtube vid where a guy sanded the decal completely off a Scared Stiff with an orbital sander with an elaborate vacuum setup. Can I go that route or will need heat gun to remove?

    #695 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Sanding works pretty good.
    I use this one, its good for light work and you can hook a shop vac to it.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/4-Amp-Corded-6-in-Variable-Speed-Dual-Random-Orbital-Sander-with-AIRGUARD-Technology-R26111/100523155
    I have the 5" one also.

    Nice, I have a Makita variable speed 5 inch but the exhaust port is small, maybe less than 3./4 of an inch ID. Maybe time to piece a hose together w some adapters and duct tape

    #697 3 years ago

    My Spy decals were printed on Ore-Jet. These were done by the guy in the UK, unauthorized of course. I'm totally green when it comes to this. I have only done restenciling of so far. Can anyone tell me how this stuff is as far as adhesion goes? He only left about a 1/2 inch of play on the ends of the cab sides, 1/4 inch per side. I have to be a 100% spot on before I lay these down, I know that much.

    Is there a sticky primer needed to make sure these stay put? I'm thinking of something used when hanging wall paper. Or is the clean wood sufficient?

    This cab has T molding on the front, should I fold the extra material over and cover with the T molding or cut it flush to the cab front? I don't want the edges of the decal showing any white. I'm not sure if this material is black all the way through or just printed black.

    #699 3 years ago
    Quoted from Budwin:

    I definitely did not fold over anything around the T-molding, I always left a 1/16" cut back on the head and cabinet edges all around. (I used the same decals on Ore-Jet without any white showing)
    One thing to watch out for in my experience is wrinkling wherever metal touches the decal. (side rails, legs, and hinges)
    Avoid that at all costs.
    Good Luck

    Great info, thanks! Yeah I figured the decals would wrinkle. I had them make a custom decal for the boring black front of the cab. Nothing special just red checker pattern and the Spy hunter font across the bottom.

    #706 2 years ago
    Quoted from alexmogil:

    This is good info and close to what I did. I did my decaling myself, each decal in two sections.
    [quoted image]
    Lay out your decals to flatten them, overnight at least!
    [quoted image]
    Lightly weigh down one side to avoid large shifts of the decal when moving it. Measure the sides (and do a little math) to make sure you have consistent edges and a good amount of border to remove.
    [quoted image]
    Then add a LOT more weight to that side in order to lock in that side.
    [quoted image]
    Lay the unsecured side of the decal over the weighted side, peel back half the backing and cut that half of the backing in a single stroke. TAKE YOUR TACK RAG AND CLEAN THE EXPOSED HALF OF THE CABINET THIS IS THE LAST CHANCE YOU WILL HAVE TO CLEAN ANY TRASH. Also eyeball your exposed decal for any obvious hair or dirt it may have picked up while being exposed. Then pull the sticky side of the decal *tightly* down over the exposed side and gently squeegee out the bubbles out to the sides. I got a 4 in foam covered squeegee to prevent scratches. Keep doing this until the bubbles are eliminated.
    [quoted image]
    Transfer your weighted objects to the other side and repeat the process! You won't have to cut the backing on the second pass of course, but it is worth putting the weight down to avoid pulling up the decal you laid down.
    A great tip I picked up from High_End_Pins is to SAND OFF THE EDGES instead of cutting them. You'll be terrified of that but it works. It works! Take about a 220 flat sanding block and sand your decaled edges (you DO have sharp edges on your corners, right) at about a 30 degree angle. This trims and seals the decal against the cabinet and gives a clean edge that matches factory. Fill the exposed front and back edges with oil-based pen.
    All of this is better said by Chris:
    As an aside, the most difficult decal to do was the front of the cabinet. The rest were easy(er). Lining up the start button along with measuring eight different locations to ensure uniformity was very difficult. I found you do not have to put a backer in the coin door hole if you pull your decal TIGHT.

    Thank you for posting this vid. I never knew Chris made vids.

    I'm confused about the sanding of the left over material on the corners. He started with a black painted cab but the corners look white after he sanded. Do you have to come back and touch up w paint pen?

    My game has T molding on the front of the main can and head. Should I sand as Chris did? Since there is T molding I don't want to create a bevel on those edges. But I do want to seal the edges to make the decals secure. And what grit would be best for this?

    #708 2 years ago
    Quoted from alexmogil:

    I am by no means an expert these are my experiences:
    Yes, he used an oil based pin to fill the light gaps on the sides, but not the bottom - I didn't believe him but the games in my collection with a decal are indeed sanded bare. The sides and everything else is filled with an *oil* based pen.
    Sharpie makes some pretty good oil based pens - they are *not* sharpie ink, but oil based ink. They don't lighten up on bare wood like acrylic (Molotow for example) or regular Sharpie ink.
    [quoted image]
    I used a 220 grit on a block to get those edges. As for the t-molding on the edges, yes I did edge them, but perhaps not as harshly as the front corners. T-molding is a little forgiving though in covering those bevels.

    She look sweet! I bought rapid prep by mistake. Just ordered rapid tac. Will I need the prep anyway?

    2 weeks later
    #713 2 years ago

    I'm gearing up to start my Spy Hunter decal replacement. I noticed some decal peeling from the rear edge and decided to pull it up. The grayish white area left behind seems to be the finish of the cab before the decals were applied, or am I seeing something else here? It's smooth with no sticky residue. If I can remove the entire decal cleanly, can I leave this finish or sand it off?

    On the cab front, i also peeling back some decal and found bare wood, but this cab has MDF sides and plywood on the front and back. Also no residue or glue here.

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    #719 2 years ago

    I usually just tape them off for painting but did remove them once on a FG. I ended up re-using the original nails. I don't think you would want to use screws as the upper PF trim may get caught when lifting.

    #721 2 years ago
    Quoted from play_pinball:

    Nice. The nails on my Dolly were the toughest SOBs I’ve ever encountered. The heads actually popped off 2 or 3 of them instead of the nails themselves coming out.

    I have been there. These are ring shanked nails that are not meant to be removed. It's the same nail used on the front of the cab for the coin door stop. I have yet to find a suitable replacement for it.

    1 month later
    #743 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mathazar:

    Agreed, but consider me a convert. Just stripped the paint off a Mata Hari cabinet and backbox in less than half the time and effort than sanding. And no 1970's lead-laced paint dust flying about. If you have Facebook, here's a quick 13-second demonstration from The Pinball Pimp.
    https://fb.watch/5XKQvtkdTh/
    Forget well-ventilated area...do the acetone stripping outdoors in the open. Chemical-rated reusable gloves are $9 at Home Depot, and they go up your forearms as well. Goggles and decent mask recommended, but you should be using those when sanding lead-paint from the 70's anyway so this shouldn't be considered as "extra" stuff needed to do the acetone strip.
    The only hassle for me with the acetone method as disposing of the used towels. I dry mine out in the sun till they're all hard and devoid of moisture, then ziplock bag them and drop them off at the hazardous waste disposal depot a few miles from my house.

    Good grief! It's a wonder I'm not riddled with cancer. I have sanded many Bally and stern cab with no mask. Inhale all kinds of stuff while restoring pins LOL!

    #744 2 years ago

    I'm finally getting around to the Spy Hunter cab. I don't think too many restos have been done on the god awful Bally/Midway cabs. Mostly I think because decals are not readily available?

    So I saw some lifting on some edges as I posted earlier. It seams that the decal material is different from head to base cab. I start with base cab, pulling the decals off and it only took minutes. No chemicals or sanding. Left behind is a whitish looking layer on the MDF that is free of glue or residue and very smooth except where there is damage to the wood.

    The head decals were much thicker and harder to remove but was still able to peel it away, again no chemicals, sanding nor heat gun needed. But no nice finish left behind. Just plain MDF, some glue, not too much. Some of the MDF fibers were pulled away with the decals so I will need to fill that back in. Time elapsed between last 2 pics was 6 minutes.

    Any suggestions as to what to use to fill in the rough MDF? Bondo goes on thick and I don't want to spend hours sanding it.

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    1 month later
    #750 2 years ago

    I'm getting close to D day, decals that is. For painting the cab edges, is Rustoleum okay to use for this. Or should I use something acrylic?

    The cab side are sanded to bare wood but I have a few spots of bondo, can the decal be placed directly over or do they need to be sealed as well? I'm trying to keep the surface as flat as possible. I also have rapid prep and rapid tack on hand.

    #752 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    You have to completely primer the cabinet to hide the bondo spots.
    They will show thru.
    Everything shows with decals.
    Kilz originsl oil based primer, either sprayed or rolled/brushed on.
    They also have it in rattle can.
    2 coats sanded between, works good enough.
    After primer and final sanding.
    Then paint the edges and holes and rear of the backbox and lower cabinet black or whatever color you are using.
    Sand diwn any paint to primer transitions.
    Rustoleum is a good paint just takes a while to dry hard.
    Use tack rags a lot before decals.
    Lightly sand any imperfections and break any paint lines.

    Got it thanks! I forgot all about the kilz. The good thing is that I have minimal Bondo. I just had to fix some small chipped edges. The cab was in great shape to start with. Removal of the decals from the head was more harsh. I pulled up some of the flake board when I should have used a heat gun or simply sanded them off. This was my first decal removal job, so live and learn.

    #754 2 years ago
    Quoted from KJL:

    I prime and paint the whole surface where the decals go but that is my routine. I have also done the decals dry since my first decal failure using rapitac 15 years ago on Addams Family. 2 decals just had bubbles appear. I’m sure it was my fault and many swear by the wet method but Bryan Kelly used to have a video I think that convinced me to try it and I’ve done it ever since. If you line up and go slow it is virtually like putting on stencils or a hardtop.i use a kitty litter box to hold them in place after I triple check the alignment.
    Good luck either way

    Thanks, I'll probably do the dry method. And I think you're right, like laying stencils. Once you have them set and weighted, the rest is just patients.

    #755 2 years ago

    To add to my previous post, the other night I stepped into the house literally for 2 minutes and it started to drizzle and in this very brief moment the wood started to raise where it got wet. If this were a plywood cab I would feel more comfortable using the wet method.

    #757 2 years ago

    What's the safest way to remove glue stringers from decals? The material is Orafol.

    #758 2 years ago

    I was able to remove glue from edges by rubbing with fingers. I may try some some mineral spirits to get the stubborn stuff. The decals were old, I had them lying flat for over 5 years, so I guess that's why the glue did this.

    The decals are done finally. All in all I'm happy with the results. The backbox was the hardest. Trimming w razors wasn't fun and proved to be more difficult than I expected. Guys on YouTube make it look so easy!

    On the last decal left side of backbox I was getting tired and didn't want to trim with a blade. This game has rounded corners. But since it uses T molding I wasn't too worried about the edged lifting.

    I grew a set and took the sanding block w 220 grit paper and tried the HEP way and dammit if didn't it work! It was kind of fun once I got the hang of it. I had ordered the Sharpie oil pens ahead of time and going over the white areas was easier to do than expected.

    Pics coming later. Agent GK is heading to Pinfest tomorrow!

    #760 2 years ago

    I have been working my ass off trying to get this game ready for Pinfest. Set up is today, show Fri and Sat.

    The T molding edges were very difficult to trim against. But you on the other edge I left a 16th or less reveal since decals are black. The front of the cab had a thick piece of vinyl which I had peeled off since I had a custom made piece for the front. Since it was a "one off" it was very time consuming to make sure I centered the sides as as the Spy Hunter logo under coin door trim and edge of cab bottom. The game is back together finally and seems to be working 100%.

    I had to fudge with some lamp sockets after adding LED's all working for now

    Sorry some pics are blurry but I took some w/o flash to show true color of the powder coat. Legs and lockdown are the same color. I'm really liking my choice of color. It started with the T molding and I took a sample to the powder guy to match. I think we did well.

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    1 week later
    #781 2 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    No trouble at all in my opinion, done it many times.
    [quoted image]

    I have had good results with paint chips and matching by eye. Ebd being one of the hardest to match came out well w sw and bm paints. Some stores will even sell or let you borrow their fan book with hundreds of colors.

    #782 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    I’m in the ‘good enough’ camp, and far from a professional restorer. While a paint match and spray gun system would likely yield better results, the trade-off in time and money isn’t a good fit for me.
    Here’s the head awaiting new paint. I wet sanded from 150 to 800, and I’m hopeful the deeper red will look closer to the original. Some trial and error on my part, but the convenience of rattle cans works for my situation. [quoted image]

    Aside from doing pf touchups I think the cab repaint is the hardest part of a pin restore. My best advice is to stay clear from lacquer paints. Jeff from pinball pimp told be to stay away from Krylon when using his stencils. I'm not sure why.

    My issue w Rustoleum is that I get uneven coverage because of the narrow spraying tips. Even though Rustoleum says it's for wood, I see that it covers much nicer when spraying metal as opposed to wood. The base primer is also important. Using a primer plus sealer will yield the best result, especially when laying dark colors. Another good thing to do is practice on some scrap plywood. Sanded birch would be the best.

    #785 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    Thanks for the tips. BTW, this is the head I bought from you!

    I figured. Hope it turns out well.

    #792 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinballPimp:

    I don't remember saying stay away from Krylon. It works fine, you just need to peel as soon as you are done spraying because the paint tends to dry quicker and you don't want the paint drying along the edge of the stencil or it can tear. Same with the Rusto 2X. The original white can Rusto stays tacky longer and gives you a superior peel because it's more of an oil-based enamel over the Krylon and 2X. DO NOT USE LACQUER based paints as it can seep into the stencil and turn it soft and gummy.

    I do remember you saying something maybe not Krylon. My mistake.

    I learned the hard way about the lacquer and stencils.

    I think I speak for all of us when I say thanks for your stencils and your contribution to the hobby!

    1 week later
    #804 2 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Has anyone tried using a thin laminate to remove all grain from a project?

    As I mentioned before I'm still learning wms games. I wasn't aware of the coil difference so I ordered what ever coils the manual called for. Is there a benefit to using parallel coils?

    #809 2 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Has anyone tried using a thin laminate to remove all grain from a project?

    I saw this and though I would try it.

    Ya I know some people trash this guy but I like what he did on this cab. I have several cabs that need to be restored. My Seawitch has the worst planking I have seen so far. Yes I know there will still be work that needs to be done to get the cab ready for veneer. The veneer is from Rockler, birch and is only 1/42 inch thick. It's fairly cheap, $60 for a 96 x 24 inch roll. So 2 of these will be more than enough to do an entire cab I think, depending on if the rear of the backbox needs it.

    I hate sanding, also hate the fast setting of epoxy and the smell. I already have the tools and the cement, so I thought why not?!

    #810 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

    The reason to switch is so your EOS (End Of Stroke) switches last longer. Here is a link to a thread that talks about doing it. There are lots of discussions on the subject.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/2#post-453694

    Ah ya threw me off, different thread but I got ya. If I hadn't of bought the flipper coils already, I would go for it. I was reading through the HS manual on the flipper page about how to correctly gap the EOS and lane change switches. I think if I follow this, the EOS should last a while. Well I hope anyway. Is there a specific parallel coil for HS in case I ever do upgrade?

    Another thing I noticed, is the EOS mounting brackets on my game are short and there's no space to zip tie the caps in place.

    3 weeks later
    #816 2 years ago

    You could try using a straight edge by dragging it from end to end and mark the low spots with a pencil. Use an 8 inch taping blade for drywall to fill in low spots with resin. Remember plywood is a natural material and your working with a 43 year old cab that has seen better days. There will most likely be some warpage of the wood that you may have to live with.

    1 month later
    #828 2 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    How did it turn out?

    I haven't gotten to it yet. I got side tracked with a Cyclone pf swap and doing a hardtop on an HS.

    7 months later
    #871 1 year ago

    You guys mentioned oil based Kilz earlier in this thread. I'm only seeing it in cans, no spray. Is a spray available?

    Also what is the cure time before applying final color to cab?

    I have re-stenciled a few cabs in the past. The first few were oil based paints and then I went to Rustoleum rattle cans. I had success and failures with both. Now I'm looking into an airless sprayer and going to acrylic latex paints. I just ordered the Grace ultra corded style gun. This is all new to me. I will be doing early Stern and bally ss cabs, EBD, Xenon, meteor and Seawitch. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    1 month later
    #878 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mathazar:

    I've had similar concerns (sanding 1970's lead paint, even with a shop-vac attached to the sander). For the last three cabinets I've done, I've chemically removed the paint using paper towels soaked in acetone. As long as you're wearing chemically rated gloves, protective eyewear, and a mask it couldn't be easier and takes about a quarter of the time vs sanding. You do have to properly dispose the used towels, however, which usually means a trip to your local county's hazardous waste recycling center.

    Yes acetone is highly combustible and the rags cannot be left indoors in case they ignite. I have a friend in which it happened to. His wife was refinishing a piece of furniture. She placed the rags in a cabinet drawer and they caught fire in the middle of the night. Luckily the smoke detectors were working.

    2 months later
    #881 1 year ago

    Can someone confirm please, the placement of the fender washer behind the coin door trim. I just noticed impressions in the wood from the washers, but not on the hinge side. I have always put the trim against the wood inside the cab and then added the washers.

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    #882 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lovef2k:

    Can someone confirm please, the placement of the fender washer behind the coin door trim. I just noticed impressions in the wood from the washers, but not on the hinge side. I have always put the trim against the wood inside the cab and then added the washers.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    It's a Bally Xenon.

    #883 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lovef2k:

    Can someone confirm please, the placement of the fender washer behind the coin door trim. I just noticed impressions in the wood from the washers, but not on the hinge side. I have always put the trim against the wood inside the cab and then added the washers.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Disregard this post, not enough sleep I guess

    3 weeks later
    #884 1 year ago

    So this old op got bored one day and chopped up a few heads for decorating his arcade. This is one of 3 heads that I got from him. It's a shame because the heads were in great shape otherwise. The 3 are EBD, Meteor and Supersonic. I'm starting with the EBD since I have 3 to restore and one of them had a head that was too far gone to repair. I used a donor Xe had that has bad water damage to use as a template for the vent slots. Since I had to drill the pilot holes from the inside, I had to remove the panel where the tech cards are stapled to. I clamped a new piece of plywood to the back of the Xe head. Using a 3/8 trim router bit with a pilot bearing, I created the new vents. The router kicked once when powering on and made a small gouge that I can fix with filler later. The vents in the Xe were not exactly perfect but I'm happy with the result. I cut it to fit snug so that I can glue and clamp it. I can add new wedge cleats inside for a strong hold but since there's no stress on this piece, it should be fine. Some Bondo will finish it and look like it never happened.

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    3 weeks later
    #889 1 year ago

    I decaled a Spy Hunter cab after the decals were about 5 years old. I did keep them flat once received. Pics posted earlier in this thread. I did notice the adhesive was stringy on the edges of the decals but I had no issues. IIRC, they were printed on Oramask.

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