(Topic ID: 166367)

B/W vs newer machines

By Luppin

7 years ago


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    #125 7 years ago
    Quoted from Luppin:

    Ok, I understand that, after a couple years revisions, newer Stern have usually good code and deep rules. Personally, I quite like deep rules, but what is for me way more important, way above anything else, is GAMEPLAY and FUN. This is why I also love System 11 machines: simple rules but often great fun. So, if the deep rules help improving the overall experience, thats great. But I am skeptical about deep rules if the gameplay is not fun. For example, I do not like at all long ball time: for me playing pinball means being on my toes all the time, regarding the skills of controlling the ball. If the ball never drains and the rules are very deep, well, then that become something like a strategic board game really, not a proper pinball machine!
    So, under this viewpoint, how do newer Stern machines compare with '90 B/W? Basically, how the balls flow and is gameplay creating adrenaline?

    Have you played Ironman?

    7 months later
    #177 7 years ago
    Quoted from Luppin:

    Space Station my other favourite System 11, amazing too!
    About new Stern really dont like the art and the feel. Surely good and deep code, but after playing pinball for long enough I think the essence is in the shots and in the feel. Complicated rules may be fun for some times, but once you learned some deep machines, you realize that the essence of pinball is instead feel, art, shots, music, no matter if rules are deep or not. And in this regards 1980/1994 games are way better. Reagrding music, even an early SS can be more inspired than a new machine with stereo hi-fi soundtrack from a shallow tasteless movie. In the end even in a small colletion you want some variety, but I greatly favour feel over rules.
    In this regard I do not favour much also WPC95 machines (especially at those prices): B/W not only started dropping certain quality of materials, but also started using uninspired simplistic art, and giving the end product a more commercial, teenagerish, tasteless feel. Stern then greatly worsened this trend, and now we have those plastic looking, deeply coded, tasteless machines with no soul and no art.

    I think Met, GB and now AS have a better art package than most B/W pins. Met and GB feel better to me than say NGG ever did. I've been playing pins since the 80s and most don't hold a candle to what is out now.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "feel" and "soul". Your top rated pin is The Shadow. Are you saying it has better art, soul and feel for example than LOTR, TSPP or Met?

    #179 7 years ago

    Ok. I would add that the pins of the 80s and 90s were designed mainly to do one thing...Extract money from people on route quickly and efficiently. I would argue today's pins are much more geared to the home collector. The deeper rule set is a reflection of the designers belief in the customers overall increased complexity. To me that is more soulful and less commercial than days of yore.

    #186 7 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Don;t worry Gary figured that out to and dumped GB on us...that'll burn through them dollar bills.
    EDIT: Also, play any 90s W/B and compare the extra ball count to now.

    That's true. GB has its flaws but it's pretty cool. Lots of people bought it so now Stern can fund more games. It's still not as many dollars as say AFM/CV/TOTAN.

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