(Topic ID: 192358)

Buying multiple NIB


By Jlanderson85

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 36 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by resipsa
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 1 year ago

    Have never bought a pin NIB before and was wondering...will distributors make someone a better deal if they buy multiple pins? Let's say 3 NIB Stern Pros at once. Thanks in advance.

    #2 1 year ago

    You can only get prices down so far because Stern has set a minimum price that distributors can sell for and it is currently being enforced......but! Find a good distributor and you can get the lowest price possible, then get the distributor to give you a killer shipping deal.

    #3 1 year ago

    You can save on shipping

    #4 1 year ago

    In addition to a shipping deal, you can also ask the vendor to include or give a big discount on any accessory items you might want.

    #5 1 year ago

    perhaps, since Stern has a minimum price, you can get the dealer to allow credit card payment for no fee and you'd keep your cash back bonus.

    #6 1 year ago

    So If we are talking about Stern.. Stern has a Min sales price that Includes shipping. We are not allowed be contract to sell below that price. Or include any extras.

    CGC we are allowed to take shipping out of the deal and Charge Actual shipping.

    Sadly the days of Group buys and Multi Piece deals on Stern has left =(

    JJ

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from rai:

    perhaps, since Stern has a minimum price, you can get the dealer to allow credit card payment for no fee and you'd keep your cash back bonus.

    That we can do =)

    #8 1 year ago

    Good info. Thanks guys.

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    So If we are talking about Stern.. Stern has a Min sales price that Includes shipping. We are not allowed be contract to sell below that price. Or include any extras.
    CGC we are allowed to take shipping out of the deal and Charge Actual shipping.
    Sadly the days of Group buys and Multi Piece deals on Stern has left =(
    JJ

    I miss those days

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    I miss those days

    Yeah the days when Stern needed to sell pinball machines. Man, I hope they never need "us" again because I sure know I won't be there to help them out. I will however help Spooky buy what they need at Stern's bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar.

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    CGC we are allowed to take shipping out of the deal and Charge Actual shipping.

    What about local sales?

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    What about local sales?

    no matter what they can do, it would be hard to overcome the sales tax hit. As much as I would prefer to buy from JJ, it's really hard to justify taking that hit.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    overcome the sales tax hit.

    sales tax doesn't bother me, just wondering if they have delivery deals etc.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    What about local sales?

    Quoted from resipsa:

    no matter what they can do, it would be hard to overcome the sales tax hit. As much as I would prefer to buy from JJ, it's really hard to justify taking that hit.

    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    sales tax doesn't bother me, just wondering if they have delivery deals etc.

    We offer Free white glove deliver with setup and trash haul away. Its the best we are able to do.. Probably can twist my arm into no CC fee as well.

    JJ

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    We offer Free white glove deliver with setup and trash haul away. Its the best we are able to do.. Probably can twist my arm into no CC fee as well.

    Thanks! I'll remind you when it's AFMr time

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    Yeah the days when Stern needed to sell pinball machines. Man, I hope they never need "us" again because I sure know I won't be there to help them out.

    Stern has already been executing planning for the immediate future regarding a their current business and manufacturing models.
    This is sometimes referred to as the "short term profit methodology".
    It went into practice in 2010.
    Production changes have significantly changed since 2012.

    They will not bankrupt, they will downsize accordingly, making less than 1-2 titles a year if necessary, and not make the mistakes again they made from 2007-2009, which almost caused Stern's potential closure.
    What has not been completely considered is the further loss of operators, and overly heavy reliance of the home market.
    They continue to evaluate the market constantly.
    They must.
    Expect many more changes.
    Potential buyers would benefit from same observations of the changes, as most are negative.

    Primary distributors, dealers, and other surviving manufacturers are trying to ride the same wave as long as possible.
    If experienced, already know what can and will happen in around the next 2-5 years.
    Otherwise, they will not be in business.
    Distributors have no reason to advise potential buyers any recompense of the quality being received for the prices being charged, as it would hurt sales.
    Star Wars is almost as bad as BM66, based on what is being received, but people cannot see continued changes, as they were not involved even as little as five years ago.

    If people prefer a simpler visual model, count the number of legitimate manufacturers that are still making pinball machines today in this photo. There is a reason some companies are excluded, as they never were legitimate in the first place, and old collectors already knew.
    This is not even a full "who's who" list of everyone.
    A small bit of research will reward those greatly with an understanding pinball manufacturing history
    This same research promotes knowledge regarding decision making in consideration when buying NIB machines.

    Pinball Manufacturers.jpg

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Stern has already been executing planning for the immediate future regarding a their current business and manufacturing models. It went into practice in 2010. Production changes have significantly changed since 2012.
    They will not bankrupt, they will downsize accordingly, and not make the mistakes again made from 2007-2009, which almost caused Stern's potential closure. What has not been completely considered is the further loss of operators, and heavy reliance of the home market. They continue to evaluate the market constantly. Expect more changes. Potential buyers would benefit from same obervations of the changes.
    Primary distributors, dealers, and other surviving manufacturers are trying to ride the same wave as long as possible, and if experienced, already know what can and will happen in around the next 2-5 years. Otherwise, they will not be in business.
    If people prefer a simpler visual, count the number of legitimate manufacturers that are still making pinball machines today. This is not even a full "who's who" list.

    Private equity owning Stern is in it for the cash, not the love of pinball, hence the cost cutting and QC decline and increase of pricing. Just in STL I'm amazed at the number of bar-cades opening non stop. Yeah ride the wave Stern, until it crashes on your head.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    Probably can twist my arm into no CC fee as well.

    I wish you sold JJP products.

    #19 1 year ago

    Interesting read on FTC policies for minimum price setting (for those who are interested):

    https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

    "Reasonable price, territory, and customer restrictions on dealers are legal. Manufacturer-imposed requirements can benefit consumers by increasing competition among different brands (interbrand competition) even while reducing competition among dealers in the same brand (intrabrand competition). For instance, an agreement between a manufacturer and dealer to set maximum (or "ceiling") prices prevents dealers from charging a non-competitive price. Or an agreement to set minimum (or "floor") prices or to limit territories may encourage dealers to provide a level of service that the manufacturer wants to offer to consumers when they buy the product. These benefits must be weighed against any reduction in competition from the restrictions.

    Until recently, courts treated minimum resale price policies differently from those setting maximum resale prices. But in 2007, the Supreme Court determined that all manufacturer-imposed vertical price programs should be evaluated using a rule of reason approach. According to the Court, "Absent vertical price restraints, the retail services that enhance interbrand competition might be underprovided. This is because discounting retailers can free ride on retailers who furnish services and then capture some of the increased demand those services generate." Note that this change is in federal standards; some state antitrust laws and international authorities view minimum price rules as illegal, per se."

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    no matter what they can do, it would be hard to overcome the sales tax hit. As much as I would prefer to buy from JJ, it's really hard to justify taking that hit.

    Your Colorado use tax rate is the same as the sales tax rate so you may as well by from JJ.
    https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/tax/use-tax-file

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    We offer Free white glove deliver with setup and trash haul away. Its the best we are able to do.. Probably can twist my arm into no CC fee as well.
    JJ

    I would gladly buy a gb premium from you then. gotta get my cc rewards.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    I wish you sold JJP products.

    Ditto. I'd prefer to have the option of buying everything locally.

    But I'm guessing Stern would find a way to penalize him for doing so.

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    But I'm guessing Stern would find a way to penalize him for doing so.

    But what could Stern really do to him? Others sell both companies' products. Frankly, I have felt Sterns' price floor was designed to impact JJ in particular negatively.

    Before the floor, JJ quickly became one of Sterns top volume sellers through his great service and competitive prices combined with his Pinside and event activity. I know at least one distributor with a presence in my general area (I will not say their name) didn't like JJ's prices and complained about it to Stern (he felt he was losing sales to JJ)...the price floor came shortly after that. The floor was intended, at least in part, to help the distributors not compete with each other on price.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    no matter what they can do, it would be hard to overcome the sales tax hit. As much as I would prefer to buy from JJ, it's really hard to justify taking that hit.

    Yeah, It sucks. I have a local distributor I bought from once. I went online and found the same NIB game for apprx. 1400 cheaper. I think the game was priced for regular stern price at the time. maybe 8000 for an LE, then you add 600 for sales tax. esshhh.
    I'd have to go look at the receipt but the total came out a little past 9k somehow. I would love to buy from a local distro, but yeah, why would you throw away 5 to 6 hundred dollars?

    Think the only time I would buy from a local dealer is used, even then the prices on used machines compared to private sellers are priced like at least 1500 over what they are worth. The difference is, if you buy from private sellers you will have to wait forever to get the game you want.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    why would you throw away 5 to 6 hundred dollars?

    I think you are "supposed" to pay the use tax for games bought out of state which is usually similar to "in-state" taxes...so technically, you are breaking the law. Taxes are the price of living in a civilized society...roads, bridges, police, fire...they don't magically get paid by the money fairy. If you can afford an $8000 man-toy, you can probably afford the tax...as a bonus you may not have an overpass collapse and crush you! Win-win!

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    I think you are "supposed" to pay the use tax for games bought out of state which is usually similar to "in-state" taxes...so technically, you are breaking the law. Taxes are the price of living in a civilized society...roads, bridges, police, fire...they don't magically get paid by the money fairy. If you can afford an $8000 man-toy, you can probably afford the tax...as a bonus you may not have an overpass collapse and crush you! Win-win!

    I don't believe there are any other way I knowingly cheat the system.
    If I can skip out in a couple of "use" taxes from some machines I purchased, I'm probably going to. I honestly don't know one person that wouldn't do the same, especially since there isn't really a way to enforce it.
    I'm sure it's only a matter of time before this changes, until then...

    edit: I actually just did some checking, out of the 325 million people in the US only 1.6% actually even reported "use tax". thats 560,000 people which more then likely consist of tax layers and accountants.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    But what could Stern really do to him? Others sell both companies' products. Frankly, I have felt Sterns' price floor was designed to impact JJ in particular negatively.

    JJ has got to be a top 3 or 5 dealer for Stern - why would they want to impact JJ negatively?

    If the other dealers were complaining (essentially that they could not compete on price + service), then it seems backwards to prop up those dealers at JJs expense.

    I understand the sales tax argument, but I like that JJ is 25 miles away. I haven't needed anything special for my two Stern games but if I do I like knowing my dealer and support is local. And don't under estimate the white glove delivery experience. Many say they offer it, but JJs guys are the first to get everything perfect.

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    JJ has got to be a top 3 or 5 dealer for Stern - why would they want to impact JJ negatively?

    Due to the pressure from the distros that wanted to charge at or near MSRP to locals and thought JJ was making them look bad to their customer base. The one that I know lodged a complaint basically said they had games on display and people would come play them and then go online and buy from JJ (there was another he complained about as well, can't recall for sure who but I believe it was Trent).

    Quoted from jfh:

    If the other dealers were complaining (essentially that they could not compete on price + service), then it seems backwards to prop up those dealers at JJs expense.

    Now I'm extrapolating to take a guess at an answer, but I would suspect the complaining distro also indicated he would no longer be able to have games on display if Stern didn't stop the online price war. The big losers of that of course were us, the customer, but it is what it is.

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Due to the pressure from the distros that wanted to charge at or near MSRP to locals and thought JJ was making them look bad to their customer base. The one that I know lodged a complaint basically said they had games on display and people would come play them and then go online and buy from JJ (there was another he complained about as well, can't recall for sure who but I believe it was Trent).

    Now I'm extrapolating to take a guess at an answer, but I would suspect the complaining distro also indicated he would no longer be able to have games on display if Stern didn't stop the online price war. The big losers of that of course were us, the customer, but it is what it is.

    When did you move to Athens?

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Due to the pressure from the distros that wanted to charge at or near MSRP to locals and thought JJ was making them look bad to their customer base. The one that I know lodged a complaint basically said they had games on display and people would come play them and then go online and buy from JJ (there was another he complained about as well, can't recall for sure who but I believe it was Trent).

    Now I'm extrapolating to take a guess at an answer, but I would suspect the complaining distro also indicated he would no longer be able to have games on display if Stern didn't stop the online price war. The big losers of that of course were us, the customer, but it is what it is.

    Sad. JJ has games on display to play and still could compete. Stern could easily level that by providing dealers with enough volume floor models for play.

    But you're right - the customer loses.

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    When did you move to Athens?

    Tiger must be back over there with Pavball for vacation. I recall her family lives there?

    #32 1 year ago

    I'm pretty sure since Jack/JJP can sell games direct unlike Stern, it would be tough for a distro to take the risk of manufacturer putting a pin on sale to move it.

    Would you commit to a ton of pins for JJP while they still sell direct?

    #33 1 year ago

    I didn't even know about the use tax until I talked to a non local distributor for afmr. He was reluctant to take a sale from PPS (local to me). He mentioned that I owed the tax either way, so might as well go local. I did it, but it will suck paying the extra $661.

    I wish JJ was the local distro. I would love the white glove delivery service!

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Distributors have no reason to advise potential buyers any recompense of the quality being received for the prices being charged, as it would hurt sales.

    What does this sentence mean?

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Tiger must be back over there with Pavball for vacation. I recall her family lives there?

    Yep, we come out here every year for a week or two to stay with PavBall's family. I always update my location due to the timezone change so people don't think I'm ignoring a pm or a mod report or something while I'm sleeping.

    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    I actually just did some checking, out of the 325 million people in the US only 1.6% actually even reported "use tax". thats 560,000 people which more then likely consist of tax layers and accountants.

    I'm going to guess that the vast majority of cases of people actually paying use tax relate to automobiles purchased out of state that you have to register with your home state anyway so you can't really avoid it. As a practical matter, self reporting of use tax purchases just doesn't happen.

    It's actually a shame as it puts local retailers at a big disadvantage and I would actually support a system that works for everyone, but no one wants to feel like a sucker paying hundreds of dollars extra out of pocket when no one else in their situation would do so.

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