(Topic ID: 247284)

Buying a pin is brutal


By CLEllison

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 126 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by ss-pinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    crotch grab.gif
    D628B2E4-5867-4BB2-8D19-77CE0E033B1F (resized).png

    There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 7 months ago

    I'm really discouraged. No, this actually isn't another thread bitching about prices. It's about:
    1.) Lack of providing clear pictures let alone enough pictures
    2.) People not willing to do Paypal or Escrow or COD
    3.) Asking someone a question and no response (which I believe is partially due to #1 and #4)
    4.) The amount of dishonesty is staggering. Today alone I caught 3 people lying about their machines. (and several within the last few weeks).
    5.) Asking someone to post more pictures on FB resulted in the sellers whining (happened twice) to remove my post because they didn't like that I "politely" mentioned they should ad more pictures and of what.

    Buying over the internet royally sucks on soooo many levels. Almost every time I've had to ask a ton of questions because (back to #1) the pictures suck or not enough and people aren't likely to actually send more/higher quality pictures. They'll respond with a half assed answer but no pics.
    It seems like at that point the communication dies because they I've exposed their lies. It really pisses me off. I'm as honest as the day is long and when I sell a pin it has pictures of everything, a list of what's been done and an explanation of bad shown in pics. I literally leave no room for questions nor do I get any other than can I come look at it. It's seriously bad enough that if you can't physically inspect the machine you're going to likely take a good old fashioned kiestering.

    Is this just the world we live in know? /end rant

    15
    #2 7 months ago

    The internet only helps find the games. After that you need to be prepared to go see it and have cash in hand.

    You'd think someone wanting to sell a valuable game would want to get top dollar and put in the effort but they don't

    #3 7 months ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    The internet only helps find the games. After that you need to be prepared to go see it and have cash in hand.
    You'd think someone wanting to sell a valuable game would want to get top dollar and put in the effort but they don't

    Spot on.

    They want top dollar with minimal effort. Theres a dude in my area trying to sell a zizzle for $1000.

    Weed out the bad eggs. Stick with pinsiderz who have feedback or a rep.

    CL and all the selling apps and markets are always a headache. Ive rarely found deals that work out. Usually they want way too much for junk.

    I also use other sites other than pinside as well. Local sites to certain areas. The crowds are smaller and everyone knows everyone so its a lot smoother.

    #4 7 months ago

    I am the same way. I baby all my stuff, and when I sell it it is in excellent condition, very clean, and typically boxed up in original boxes with all manuals. Many times when I sell something the buyer is so impressed by how I handle and the details of the pictures they sometimes ask if I have anything else I am selling

    I would even point out all the issues, even ones that won't matter like a small scratch on the bottom side of the cabinet, or a small issue with decal in the back of the machine. Anything I can think of, and then give the buyer a price that is more favorable to them than me. But I rarely get that experience when buying anything.

    #5 7 months ago

    Try not to be discouraged. Poor communication and annoying things happen with both sellers AND buyers. I could write a book on what all has occurred to me.

    The best policy is to grow a thick skin, buy and sell locally with people you trust, and always be prepared with cash and to work around the other person's schedule.

    56
    #6 7 months ago

    COD, are you actually serious.

    Show up with cash, inspect game, leave with it after handing over money. It's actually very easy. I just sold a game today using that time honored technique.

    #7 7 months ago

    This is why I pretty much only buy from Pinside. I may pay a bit of a premium (maybe?) but I have overwhelmingly dealt with good folks, and almost every single buyer or seller I’ve met I would do business with again. Whether or not they would do business with me again is their call! . The reputations do mean a lot, and people buying/selling with the same username for years carries a lot of weight. If you can go see a machine in person, there’s nothing better, but when you can’t... trust has to go a long way

    #8 7 months ago

    "Cash on the glass" is the pinball standard; it really does protect both buyer and seller.

    As a seller, I'll also (grudgingly) allow for them to arrange transport, if the buyer's willing to use escrow.com. I'll strongly encourage a video chat to address any possible concerns with the game before it's transported, and give them *every* possible chance to inspect. I actually WANT you to see every flaw! But once it leaves my house, deal's done.

    I'll never do paypal for anything other than a small deposit if someone wants me to hold the game for a few days.

    27
    #9 7 months ago

    Not buying a pin is worse.

    No matter how much it hurts buying. You need pins.

    LTG : )

    #10 7 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Not buying a pin is worse.
    No matter how much it hurts buying. You need pins.
    LTG : )

    LOL put this on a t-shirt

    35
    #11 7 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    Almost every time I've had to ask a ton of questions because (back to #1) the pictures suck or not enough and people aren't likely to actually send more/higher quality pictures. They'll respond with a half assed answer but no pics.
    It seems like at that point the communication dies

    Sounds like the sellers are viewing you as a high maintenance buyer or just potentially difficult to complete a deal with. Sellers like dealing with laid back buyers, usually even if it means leaving a few bucks on the table.

    #12 7 months ago

    Most of my pin purchases were from 2010-1015. Almost all of the transactions were remote and sellers were great overall. No doubt you have to learn how to weed out the bozos and appraise games from photos. If sellers aren't responsive, probably good to walk away.

    Purchasing pins remotely is definitely more stressful, but it's necessary if you are looking for specific, high quality pins (and aren't patient).

    #13 7 months ago

    It sounds like you are dealing with people on this site? I have to say, everyone I have ever worked with, whether buying or selling, has been amazing. If so, hopefully just 1 or 2 problems and IMHO it is not standard for Pinside. Sometimes communication drops off from PMs but that is to be expected (life happens), as long as it picks back up. But when buying, vendors an individuals have been great, easy to work with, accommodating and just good people. When selling, everyone I have spoken too has been great and realistic and good people if I meet them... and hopefully the same can be said for me.

    Regardless, sorry that happens to anyone but know it is the minority here (I think!).

    #14 7 months ago

    I just finished up a purchase yesterday. I bought a machine from a reputable Pinsider here local. I went over to look at the machine decided to buy (didn't even play it) I used Pay Pal with my Credit Card. I let him keep the machine til the money cleared his bank, then went over yesterday to pick up the game.
    Smooth transaction all is good. You don't have to go cash on the glass, just go with a trusted buyer/seller. If anything had gone wrong I could have just filed fraud with my CC company no problem.

    #15 7 months ago

    All my pinside transactions over the years have been good except for one fairly recently. The guy just was not upfront about condition. My trouble lately is just getting someone to ship a game. I have sent PMs taking games at asking price and get turned down because of shipping.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    I have sent PMs taking games at asking price and get turned down because of shipping.

    Man what a tragedy! I have shipped dozens of games and its so easy. Never had one get damaged either. I send all mine on the legs totally wrapped and blanketed. Most of the games I have sold have been out of state.

    #17 7 months ago

    No way in hell I'm taking anything other than cash or a wire transfer. The reach-back of PayPal or a credit card is way too favorable to the buyer--whether he has any real reason to be unhappy with the purchase or not. Anything i've bought from a fellow Pinsider with a good reputation was better than expected.

    #18 7 months ago
    Quoted from Billy16:

    No way in hell I'm taking anything other than cash or a wire transfer. The reach-back of PayPal or a credit card is way too favorable to the buyer--whether he has any real reason to be unhappy with the purchase or not. Anything i've bought from a fellow Pinsider with a good reputation was better than expected.

    Yeah this form of payment is only for trusted reputable Pinsiders or colleagues.

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Sounds like the sellers are viewing you as a high maintenance buyer or just potentially difficult to complete a deal with. Sellers like dealing with laid back buyers, usually even if it means leaving a few bucks on the table.

    Was gonna say something similar, not necessarily reflecting of the op but some buyers just come across as potentially very difficult to deal with. Plus in my personal experience, the more questions asked means the less likely they are to buy. It's really simple, come on over and play the game. Like it? Cool, come back with cash and it's yours.

    #20 7 months ago

    you should never really buy games that you can't pick up in person. only exception is for really rare games that you only see once every 10 years.

    15
    #21 7 months ago

    I've driven four hours each way for a single, small, fuzzy craigslist photo.

    Then it's just cash on the glass, loading it up, and the drive home.

    If you want a game, you have to make the effort to get it.

    #22 7 months ago

    The point of potentially being a pain is likely it because I ask questions and want decent photos. LOL. It's TRUE though, if wanting to know exactly what I'm buying is asking too much then truly I am a pain!

    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    The point of potentially being a pain is likely it because I ask questions and want decent photos. LOL. It's TRUE though, if wanting to know exactly what I'm buying is asking too much then truly I am a pain!

    What your wanting is not unreasonable. If the guy has what your looking for then he will come forward with the pics if not then don't waste your time just move on to the next seller. There is some risk in doing these transactions. You have to be willing to take some necessary risks to land the big fish.

    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    The point of potentially being a pain is likely it because I ask questions and want decent photos. LOL. It's TRUE though, if wanting to know exactly what I'm buying is asking too much then truly I am a pain!

    Some people just can't take good photos. They don't have the necessary skills for it.

    Basically, all I use the photos for is proof that the game exists and for a general idea of its condition. The rest I determine on inspection in person.

    #25 7 months ago

    At least you can find pins near you. You can drive out and see them. Anything I buy has to be purchased unseen and shipped or driven 10 hours one way just to check out.

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Not buying a pin is worse.
    No matter how much it hurts buying. You need pins.
    LTG : )

    True story!

    #27 7 months ago

    Even Pinside has its faults with sellers. There are a couple guys on here that post rare, CQ or HUO pins asking top dollar and then post only 2-3 pics. They say contact them for more pics. I send a PM and still never get a response (and I see they’ve checked onto Pinside daily). I’m willing to pay top money for the right game (see my collection), but guess these sellers aren't serious.

    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    you should never really buy games that you can't pick up in person. only exception is for really rare games that you only see once every 10 years.

    Not necessarily true. I wish I could inspect and pick up games in person. Every game in my collection was bought sight unseen and shipped. I live in a pinball desert and don’t have the luxury of driving across town (or even a couple hours) to see a pin in person. I trust photos and sellers’ reputations.

    #29 7 months ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    you should never really buy games that you can't pick up in person. only exception is for really rare games that you only see once every 10 years.

    BINGO!! And when you do be sure to make the drive with cash in hand. And NAVL? HA!! Never again!!

    John

    #30 7 months ago

    Cash on the glass is necessary as a seller. There is no protection for the seller and credit card companies or PayPal refund purchasers quickly and with very few questions.

    You want my machine? You pay cash. No cash? Forget it.

    10
    #31 7 months ago

    It is a seller's market right now and while you're asking for more pictures the guy probably has 2-3 cash offers already. Hell, you could probably only post pictures of the leg levelers and the machine would be gone in an hour if priced right.

    #32 7 months ago

    It was a drive to Brooklyn. From this CL ad with no photos. But “Franky” made me an offer I couldn’t refuse!

    D628B2E4-5867-4BB2-8D19-77CE0E033B1F (resized).png
    #33 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Some people just can't take good photos. They don't have the necessary skills for it.
    Basically, all I use the photos for is proof that the game exists and for a general idea of its condition. The rest I determine on inspection in person.

    I’ve always thought this was a lame reason for bad photos. All it takes is some light and a phone. Sure, some don’t have recent phones but I think that’s pretty few people. Everybody has lamps.

    Agree in person and cash is best but if the seller can’t make minimal effort then I move on. Tough to do when they have that special title!

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    It is a seller's market right now and while you're asking for more pictures the guy probably has 2-3 cash offers already. Hell, you could probably only post pictures of the leg levelers and the machine would be gone in an hour if priced right.

    Very True. You have to be on a hair trigger to jump on a game for sale or it will pass you buy. I had a long list of people right behind me (according to the seller after the sale) for this last game. I paid the guy what he wanted for the machine. No bargaining. I got about 2k worth of extras that he didn't even announce with the game. BONUS! The fact of the matter is right now, there lots of people wanting that same game, so you have to move it or lose it.

    #35 7 months ago

    Longest one way trip (so far) - 8 hours. Multiple trips over 4 hours. Inspect, offer and Cash on the Glass. One no-buy on trip over 4 hours one way.

    #36 7 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    4.) The amount of dishonesty is staggering. Today alone I caught 3 people lying about their machines. (and several within the last few weeks).

    What types of lies are you catching, exactly? And how?

    #37 7 months ago

    Buying a pin shouldn’t be brutal. Maybe you’re just dealing with the wrong people. Work with a reputable seller with positive feedback and you shouldn’t have any issues. I work hard to be a good buyer and seller - it’s important to me to be honest and easy to work with.

    #38 7 months ago

    I think most folks are not dishonest about their games, they just are not very familiar with them. For good or bad. That makes it hard for them to give an honest description and to point out potential flaws or issues. I have purchased dozens of machines that once their in person I point out something that was not brought to my attention previously and I can tell the person selling truly had no idea the flaw was there. Lots of folks own these machines and are not knowledgeable about them.

    And I agree with Forceflow, most people can't take a good picture to save their life.

    But if you show up in person you have every opportunity to look it over and decide regardless of shitty descriptions or crappy pictures.

    Thanks
    Blake

    #39 7 months ago

    I cannot tell you the number of times the seller of the machine didn't know that the heads come of off EM's or that even the glass slides down the machine when you take the lockdown bar off. Sometimes I feel like I just performed a magic trick! "Honey, come look at what he is doing! Can you believe we carried this up to the loft with the head and legs on?"

    #40 7 months ago

    Sometimes if a buyer runs into multiple “bad sellers” in a row. Maybe it would be time to reconsider their buying habits.

    Do your research online before you bombard the seller with a dozen questions. There’s a good chance that the next buyer in line will know the answer already or not care in the 1st place. A seller will deal with the person that is perceived to be less of a Hassle.

    If you really want the game, don’t sit on the fence humming and hawing. Don’t send a dozen questions. Get in your car and drive to look at it. You’ll know as soon as you see it if you want it.

    If you go look at a game, try it out, and decide to wait a day to think it over. Then there’s a good chance it will be gone before you go back. Cash on the glass takes the game.

    Your not dealing with a store. Don’t wait for a sale next week, someone else will come buy it before you know it.

    Don’t haggle with a local seller baised on a price from across the country. Your local game is priced for your local market. If a guy 8 hours away has one cheaper- start driving.

    #41 7 months ago

    I bought my pin on E-bay without seeing the machine in person. The photos were adequate and the seller answered my questions. I took possession without unpacking it from the last show the seller took it to. As it turns out, the seller is a reputable Pinside member and the machine was worth the price and the 6 hour round trip to pick it up. Maybe I got lucky. As a sometime seller on E-bay, I don't think it is a good place to sell a machine as their fees are too high.

    #42 7 months ago

    Pinball transaction can be like a lot of other deals / work / transactions.

    Start Here: There are 3 things you want

    Good
    Cheap
    Fast (maybe in Pinball substitute hassle free)

    Pick two at most, you can’t get all three.
    Pick one if that’s the most important goal.

    End Here:

    #43 7 months ago

    PayPal is a joke and any seller with even half a brain wouldn't use it for anything more than a small deposit. In person cash transactions are the best way to go in this hobby.

    #44 7 months ago

    I’ve never bought or sold through this site (yet), but I think most of the the problems are Craigslist related. Let’s face it, an online garage sale where people post a lot of worthless CRAP is not exactly a gentleman’s forum. Adjust expectations accordingly.

    From what I have heard from sellers, as soon as you list on CL, you get swamped with ultra-lowball offers. Then the follow up indignant phone calls or emails demanding to know why you won’t take $600 for your pin that is worth $6000. I just picked up a Star Wars pro last month. The seller said someone called and offered to trade him a used lawn string trimmer for the pin.

    One time I saw a pin for a good price right after it was listed. The guy accepted my offer over the phone. By the time I got there to pick it up he was asking for more money because other pinball enthusiasts has done the “service” of telling him that “it was worth more and he should be asking for more money”.

    There are a lot of tools out there.

    #45 7 months ago

    Selling: I typically come up with a fair value for the pin, then subtract 5-10%. Easy and quick is better than a few extra bucks IMO

    Buying: Living in a pin-remote area, I typically stick to NIB (although I'd never pass on a good local DMD deal). NIB means quick hassle free shipping (STI to me is always at least 3 weeks and $500), no payment negotiations, and reputable sellers. I know NIB only is frowned upon by some in the hobby, but if you look at my collection history, it took me fixing up/selling almost 20 older games to get to this point. Buy low, fix up, sell. Buy mid tier, fix up, sell, etc...

    #46 7 months ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    PayPal is a joke and any seller with even half a brain wouldn't use it for anything more than a small deposit. In person cash transactions are the best way to go in this hobby.

    Totally agree. When a buyer says, “I just want to use PayPal to make sure I’m protected”...that’s usually the end of my discussions with them as a seller. I am the one with the machine that I’m about to lose possession of...they don’t need protection, only I do in that situation.

    A buyer wanting to use PayPal with me just means they won’t get my machine.

    #47 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Some people just can't take good photos. They don't have the necessary skills for it.
    Basically, all I use the photos for is proof that the game exists and for a general idea of its condition. The rest I determine on inspection in person.

    This. I’m pretty sure some people are literally not capable of anything above breathing and eating. Understanding that a photo must be clear and steady AND has to show something meaningful is far beyond the average Craigslist seller’s mental capacity.

    Just show up to the house and always make sure there’s a wea- I mean tool close by in case they’re actually crackheads.

    11
    #48 7 months ago

    Cash talks, bullshit walks.

    This is a sellers market. I had a garage full of beater projects and I sold every single game in two days, no questions, no asking for more photos.

    Someone else mentioned it - the more talking and gemming and hawing, the less buying. Serious people get right to the point, no chit-chat, no photos of shooter lanes.

    The reality is, there’s a couple of other guys right behind you NOT asking questions or wanting photos. I’d rather deal with them.

    #49 7 months ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Cash talks, bullshit walks.
    This is a sellers market. I had a garage full of beater projects and I sold every single game in two days, no questions, no asking for more photos.
    Someone else mentioned it - the more talking and gemming and hawing, the less buying. Serious people get right to the point, no chit-chat, no photos of shooter lanes.
    The reality is, there’s a couple of other guys right behind you NOT asking questions or wanting photos. I’d rather deal with them.

    With "beaters" I can understand that attitude as a seller. The terms are very different though, If its situations where I'm driving several hours and shelling out several thousand dollars for a pin. I'm going to need to see pics that give me a good idea of the condition of the game before I waste my time and gas driving to look at a pin. Taking a dozen or so good quality pics isnt hard to do.

    #50 7 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    I'm really discouraged. No, this actually isn't another thread bitching about prices. It's about:
    1.) Lack of providing clear pictures let alone enough pictures
    2.) People not willing to do Paypal or Escrow or COD
    3.) Asking someone a question and no response (which I believe is partially due to #1 and #4)
    4.) The amount of dishonesty is staggering. Today alone I caught 3 people lying about their machines. (and several within the last few weeks).
    5.) Asking someone to post more pictures on FB resulted in the sellers whining (happened twice) to remove my post because they didn't like that I "politely" mentioned they should ad more pictures and of what.

    This kind of stuff is always interesting to me. Not that it matters but here are my thoughts! For free!

    1. I've sold about 10 games, all with around 8 pictures. I generally use pictures to show what shape the game is in and then have the buyer come look at the game. You can never take enough pictures to please everyone anyway, and I've sold enough games where generally the people who want more pictures are just picture collectors/tire kicking/window shopping. If you're interested in the game enough to come look at it that's how I know you're serious about buying it.

    2. PayPal will side with the buyer 110% of the time and is ripe for scams - I don't need a middle man to hold my money until they decide how much of it I can access and when. Cash on the glass.

    3. Depends on the question and how it was asked. Similar to #1, the questions people ask generally flag them as a serious buyer or a tire kicker and I'll respond accordingly. I try to list out everything I know that's good and bad so there (hopefully) wouldn't need to be any questions aside from "can I come look at the game?".

    4. Not much to say there - mentally blacklist them and move on I guess.

    5. If you're doing this without any legitimate interest in buying the game, I'd do the same. The amount of timewasters on FB that have no interest in your game and just want to be the Ebert of pinball sales ads is mind blowing. If you're interested enough where you need very specific pictures, come see the game or you're not that interested.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 39.50
    $ 132.00
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 12.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 25.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Filament Printing
    $ 29.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 12,500.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 218.00
    $ 7,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 154.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    $ 10.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 35.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Pinball Haus
    $ 60.00
    Playfield - Plastics
    Vandelay Industries
    € 8.10
    Flipper Parts
    Buthamburg
    $ 299.99
    Cabinet - Other
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 154.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    $ 84.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinBoss Mods
    $ 7,399.00
    Pinball Machine
    Pinball Pro
    $ 269.00
    Cabinet - Other
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 279.95
    Lighting - Led
    Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
    There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside