(Topic ID: 285650)

Buying a NIB Stern sucks (and I really want to like it)!

By e4wesley

3 years ago


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    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    stern promptly sent parts.

    I've been a NIB Stern customer since 2004. For the first 10 years, Pat Powers gave me great service. For the past 6 years, getting parts has been a PITA (and I've dealt with 3 different distributors over that time period). For example, when my Munsters CPU died after 30 games, took Stern over 1 month to get me a new one. Distributor's complain about Stern's timelines as well.

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from EJS:

    Sorry to hear and wish your experience was a better one. I miss the days of my NIB Stern buying experience. LOTR and spidey for around $4,000 and just a minor bracket adjustment here and there.

    They don't build 'um like they use to. My NIB LOTR has been a stunning work horse...so incredibly reliable.

    13
    #96 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Well, it's not that, really. It's just that by their nature, when pins are moved and knocked around...even when fully padded and strapped down, all those moving parts can be knocked slightly off kilter which can present themselves as major out of box issues. This happens when you ship a perfectly working used pin as well. There are usually adjustments that need to be made, and I think Woody's point was that people new to the hobby might not know that. It IS frustrating, though, but those of us who have been doing this for some time know to expect it.

    I don't buy this argument...I just shipped my AC/DC, KISS, STTNG and LOTR 3000 miles and they all played perfectly when they arrived.

    Most NIB problems originate at the factory...the people building these are in a hurry and they are complex. And, despite the complexity, the testing is minimal.

    #102 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    You're a lucky guy. I've had problems with new and used games. In both of our cases, the sample size is too small to say it doesn't happen. Doesn't mean either one of us is wrong.

    My only point is this...with NIB games, the builders are typically more at fault than the shippers. That's my experience over the past 16 years of being in the hobby.

    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    when was that
    my Batman TDK had dodgy cabinet decals and a switch out of alighnment
    old operators have posted that new B/W machines had to be shopped before being routed

    2004. My first 2 NIB games were LOTR & TSPP. Both were rock solid. Build quality has been on a steady decline over the years...if people don't recognize this, they aren't paying attention, weren't around, or are just putting their head in the sand. Fortunately, I've gained a ton of experience since 2004, so fixing/tweaking them isn't a big deal...kind of fun. Unfortunately, not everyone has the time or motivation to fiddle...

    #121 3 years ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Next time buy it from a reputable dealer...
    Allow them to open it and set it up and test everything even if they charge you something to do that. They can always re-box it and send it out.
    Problem solved.

    Yep, but just as important is a dealer that really close by...which might not be easy in some locations.

    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    How is a potential NiB buyer supposed to know that prior to purchase?
    I think distributors need to do a better job but as the OP pointed out if you don’t like your local options it can really be problematic when you need support.

    You talk to the dealer? Back in 2004, I had the choice of buying my LOTR at Sharper Image or Pinball Warehouse. I didn't trust Sharper Image for support, so I called Pinball Warehouse and was impressed by the owner (Evan Steiner, IIRC).

    fwiw, back then, I would barely take the glass off and depended on Evan for any repairs. Over the next 16+ years, acquired a ton of experience fixing these beasts. Takes time to become proficient, and again, for really busy people, they don't have the time!

    #149 3 years ago

    The demand for home pins keeps on climbing...Stern is the only volume producer of pins. To keep up with demand, quality suffers and code is alpha/beta upon release. "We" have become the extended QA department. Can't tell you how many times I would discover/fix a problem that Stern support was clueless about. The only thing that is shocking is how outdated the Stern support "organization" is...not even a defect tracking system that we can submit issues.

    #164 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Pinballs are commercial vending equipment. Your expectations of retail consumer experience for returns and hand holding do not apply. If you want someone who will provide that kind of end-user hand holding.... shop for that. Do not assume every seller provides a retail experience.
    Also, don’t crap on someone for charging more for a retail experience and then cry the wholesaler you chose to buy from didn’t give you a full retail experience.
    This pattern is as old as time... people buying from wholesalers or drop ship distributors and then cry about horrible treatment because they did’t get a full retail experience.
    If you want service, hand holding, and consumer services.... STOP BUYING FROM COMMERCIAL DISTRIBUTION and buy from a retailer.

    Most NIB pinball machines being sold are not commercial vending equipment. Sure, that's where the industry originated decades ago, but today, a majority of the sales are for home use. The fact that Stern (and others) are thriving when COVID shut down coin-op is proof of this.

    Even with a good distributor, the process for getting parts and repairs in a timely fashion sucks (particularly for non-hobbyists). It's a shame Stern hasn't modernized and beefed up their support staff and infrastructure. Getting parts is still hit or miss...

    #172 3 years ago
    Quoted from StoneyCreek:

    Do you have better data on this subject. I mean, is it just 2020 where home sales were the majority, or has it been happening for years?

    It's been happening for years. I don't work for Stern, so I don't have hard data. We (the home use community) saved Stern's arse...big time. You'd think they would want to reward us with a better warranty and support!

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I’m sorry... did the distribution channel change when i wasn’t looking? Or how stern builds, tests, supports, and certifies their kit? It doesn’t matter than there are more home buyers now... its still commercial vending equipment and that is how stern is structured.

    You are making my point...Stern's entire process hasn't changed much over the past 2 decades that I've been a customer. Customers have shifted dramatically over the past 2 decades, but not Stern. The only reason they get away with it is there is little competition.

    #173 3 years ago
    Quoted from ClassicHornet:

    I’m sure Stern would like to have fault free game off the shelf and are probably slowly working towards that goal.

    Actually, just the opposite. Stern cares much more about cranking them out than "fault free". I've been a NIB customer since 2004 (LOTR & TSPP). I can say from experience over 2 decades that Stern's quality has steadily declined over the years. I still have my LOTR...the quality is stunning...has had more plays than my entire collection combined x10 and still looks better than some of my newer games. One switch replaced in 16 years.

    #186 3 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    Strange, EVERY Lotr I have come across has needed the fork switches at the VUKs replaced many times. They were simply crap switches during that run. Putting Cherry brand switches in instead of the factory Orion brand has been the only way to permanently fix them being flakey.

    So? As I said, one bad switch in 16 years and your LOTR's all needed the same VUK switch replaced.

    My LOTR has between 10-20k plays and the PF looks better than new games with 500 plays. I won't bore you with photos, since it's not that important...

    If you think the newer games are higher quality, there's really nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

    #189 3 years ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    I do find it amusing that this is the usual Stern bashing thread cause my JJP pins to date have been far more of a pain in the ass

    They are all PITA's, but Stern has proven they could do better (but don't). JJP had "quality" as one of their reasons for birthing the company, but they've had their challenges...no doubt! Even though the first month of DILE ownership was a PITA, it has been good to me ever since (for ~3 years now).

    #212 3 years ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    The grass isn't always greener regarding the competitors. All of them have issues.

    No doubt. From my perspective, it's about how you are treated (by the respective company) when problems exist. Just bought my first Spooky game (R&M) and have had lots of issues. Mostly minor, but have spent over 40 hours dialing it in (and Spooky has sent me several parts). What's the difference? Spooky is responsive (same day email/call returns) and engages with us on Pinside. When a company takes ownership of problems and does everything they can to "make it right", it makes you feel like they have your back. Stern has taken care of me over the years, but the service and quality aren't what they use to be.

    #219 3 years ago
    Quoted from Broohaha:

    I'm relatively new to the pinball scene; my first machine was a 9 y.o. SM in 2016 with my 2nd being a NIB AIQ two months ago.
    Luckily, I found Pinside when I was researching my first buy. Echoing many comments above: I had done my research to know what I was getting into. Soon after purchase, I needed to rebuild my pop-bumpers (thanks VID!), learned how to do basic maintenance, bought a soldering iron, leaf switch adjuster, etc... For me, this was an undiscovered pleasure: tinkering with my toy.
    Fast forward to Nov 2020, and I got the green light to buy AIQ NIB. Even after 4 years of tinkering, I had WAY too high of expectations for the contents of my big Stern box. Suffice to say, I spent a good month of adjusting and 're-installing' aspects of the game to get it to work as I liked (and as it should.) I'm still waiting for a date for my replacement (unpopulated ) playfield.
    Point being: I thought I knew what I was doing. I naively thought there might be a loose connector or two, but I did not expect playfield pooling, or about 8 different issues that are likely tied to poor manufacturing/QA.
    I thought of suggesting some kind of 'white glove' service (or SquareTrade warranty) for folks new to the space. But if that is $300 for my kid's $1,000 laptop, I can't imagine a newbie paying an $1,800 premium for a $6,000 (pro) toy. I always wondered if LE's came with additional attention to detail. I guess not.
    I enjoy both of my toys, and I enjoy my tinkering. However, I've checked the NIB 'box' off my bucket list and will be looking for lightly used machines from people who don't want to be a 'pin technician'...

    Nice post! Actually, buying lightly used machines from 'pin technicians' is even better! The last few games I've sold were to newbies that don't want to be 'pin technicians'

    #232 3 years ago
    Quoted from DrJoe:

    Does a newb have the know-how and skills (and desire) to spend 40 hours dialing in a new game? I doubt it. I've found Sterns to be more reliable than the other brands, and I've bought just about everything NIB in the last 15 years or so. Many games routed and the Sterns hold up better than the other brands in my experience. That being said, problems tend to fall on deaf ears and you need to figure things out on your own. Same with JJP games actually. They've been harder to keep running on route.

    I agree that even the newer Sterns hold up ok. I just think my older SAM/Whitestar games (TRON, AC/DC, LOTR) hold up even better. With Spike 2, the simplicity I imagine helps (in both electronics and mechs). JJP's games are pretty ornate and complex. Do the moving propellers on my DILE drones really add value? (a common mech that breaks quickly on many DILE's). Sometimes "less is more"...don't need a 400lb. pinball...250lb. is sufficient

    #236 3 years ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    Does it matter if the drones break? They literally add nothing to the game.

    That was my point...adding cost/complexity for features that don't add value is a waste.

    #247 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    That’s pretty amazing. I’ve had my LOTR for essentially the same time and only have 1500-1600 plays. I think I’ve replaced that switch maybe 3 times.
    My Iron Man (which I traded a HUO TSPP for 10 years ago) only has 4800 plays.
    I am not playing enough

    Hey Jeff, my LOTR was @ Neon Retro Arcade (a free play arcade that I helped open in LA). The game was only in the arcade for 4-6 weeks IIRC, but was getting ~1000 plays a week! Crazy. I think the other reason for the high plays is it was at Marcel's event in Ft. Lauderdale.

    #275 3 years ago
    Quoted from dsmoke1986:

    40 hours dialing in a game?? Seriously? That sounds like a full time job

    40 hours spread over 6 weeks isn't really that big a deal if you are into pinball as a hobby. I'm retired, but even if I was working, 6 weekends would have covered it. Like it or not, pinball manufacturing is an art, and some of the people doing the work aren't artists

    #277 3 years ago
    Quoted from dsmoke1986:

    No Doubt, even spread out over 6 weeks, that's a ton of time to dial in a pin...I've owned plenty of NIB pins in my lifetime, and that just sounds infuriating.
    Hopefully you have it where you want it now and are able to enjoy the pin.

    To be honest, dialing in my IMDN Premium was more infuriating, but probably slightly less time. All the Spooky issues were fairly easy to diagnose/correct. When I get a chance, I'm going to write up what I did (since I've received several PM's from other owners that are interested). R&M is a great game, so it was worth the effort.

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