Was playing Deadpool LE on route today and so many of the LED’s were dim. How do you even go about fixing that on a Spike game without lamps? Aren’t the lights supposed to last the life of the game now?

Most likely just dirt on them. Just need to get into it and clean the boards up.

How dare Stern allow these machines to become dirty!

These fine folks pay way too much money to have to open them up and clean them!

I hope you dont think of this purchase, as an investment. How do you like the gameplay!

Not a lot of new people even know what questions to ask. It's easy for you or me to say that from an experienced standpoint. I also get where your coming from because, I'm the same way with taking personal responsibility. But in reality blame is usually shared to some extent btwn. multiple parties.

If I were Stern and I wanted to sell more to home buyers how that would happen. Saying that a buyer should of known better isn't the answer. (I'm not necessarily talking about the OP, just an inexperienced buyer in general). I would think you would rely on dealers and if that breaks down then it comes back on Stern. This is knowing that most new games have some issues.

I find the game is pretty fast and flows pretty well.
Could use the odd mod.
I sure don't expect much in the way of support.

I can't see how this pin could make any money on location next to any other modern title.
Plus it seems to need adjusting pretty often during the breaking in. Way more than Aerosmith (once the plastic protectors were installed).

Time will tell if my investment is an investment.

While it has a coin door, Heavy Metal is based upon a home model of Spiderman and wasn't really designed to be operated commercially. Especially given the cost of it compared to say a Stern Pro.

In terms of your investment, that will likely depend upon the demand from the Heavy Metal community exclusively as I don't see this being a sought after machine for hobbyists at a cost higher than MSRP.

OP is lucky he got a refund, Trent charged me $500 to return a NIB MET LED that had a chipping play field. I’ve bought NIB multiple times, I’ve spoken to Gary Stern at CES, I’ve emailed with Chas and Patrick Powers on issues numerous times. FUCK Stern seriously they don’t care about any of us they make it clear over and over. You know what I did, STOP BUYING! I feel so much better because they don’t get my money anymore. I play route and buy HUO when I want to own a Stern game. Would Stern have gone to lcd Screens without competition, no, do you want to support NIB Pinball, then support Stern’s competitors and MAYBE just MAYBE Stern will wake up before they go out of business.

Haven’t bought a NIB since Jurassic Park. Savings account is stoked

Well, you are still supporting Stern by putting money in location games and buying their games used. Just saying.

The grass isn't always greener regarding the competitors. All of them have issues.

No doubt. From my perspective, it's about how you are treated (by the respective company) when problems exist. Just bought my first Spooky game (R&M) and have had lots of issues. Mostly minor, but have spent over 40 hours dialing it in (and Spooky has sent me several parts). What's the difference? Spooky is responsive (same day email/call returns) and engages with us on Pinside. When a company takes ownership of problems and does everything they can to "make it right", it makes you feel like they have your back. Stern has taken care of me over the years, but the service and quality aren't what they use to be.

Right on.

Hard to forget an ooey-gooey playfield that never should have left the factory. I would have been OK with just having to dial-in some mechs. Emailed my distributor with a heads up and never heard back from them either. Pretty sure everybody but me knew what was going on ahead of time xD

Curious, is “the Pin” more reliable than a Pro model?

Far less and not really comparable.

I'm relatively new to the pinball scene; my first machine was a 9 y.o. SM in 2016 with my 2nd being a NIB AIQ two months ago.

Luckily, I found Pinside when I was researching my first buy. Echoing many comments above: I had done my research to know what I was getting into. Soon after purchase, I needed to rebuild my pop-bumpers (thanks VID!), learned how to do basic maintenance, bought a soldering iron, leaf switch adjuster, etc... For me, this was an undiscovered pleasure: tinkering with my toy.

Fast forward to Nov 2020, and I got the green light to buy AIQ NIB. Even after 4 years of tinkering, I had WAY too high of expectations for the contents of my big Stern box. Suffice to say, I spent a good month of adjusting and 're-installing' aspects of the game to get it to work as I liked (and as it should.) I'm still waiting for a date for my replacement (unpopulated ) playfield.

Point being: I thought I knew what I was doing. I naively thought there might be a loose connector or two, but I did not expect playfield pooling, or about 8 different issues that are likely tied to poor manufacturing/QA.

I thought of suggesting some kind of 'white glove' service (or SquareTrade warranty) for folks new to the space. But if that is $300 for my kid's $1,000 laptop, I can't imagine a newbie paying an $1,800 premium for a $6,000 (pro) toy. I always wondered if LE's came with additional attention to detail. I guess not.

I enjoy both of my toys, and I enjoy my tinkering. However, I've checked the NIB 'box' off my bucket list and will be looking for lightly used machines from people who don't want to be a 'pin technician'...

great First Game to own except that games you pick afterward may not be as fun .
Only Because SM is one of my top 5 fun pinball machines to play of all time .
I may never sell mine it is that fun and timeless and never a problem mechanically .

Nice post! Actually, buying lightly used machines from 'pin technicians' is even better! The last few games I've sold were to newbies that don't want to be 'pin technicians'

100% agree After dipping my toe in years ago with a fixer-upper Xenon machine and learning the basics of flipper repair and various electronic challenges with an old pin...and a newer 2004 vintage Stern that needed VUK replacement and cliffy mods, I fell into some cash and bought a NIB JP Pre. After 3 games it bricked with...as it turned out after several video calls with Stern support...a bad CPU board. Easily replaced and has been rock solid since.
BUT....I just got an old ST Pro that has likely had 5000 games played on it. Paid a fair price. It plays like new. It looks like new. The only complaint is the high score initials aren't mine. I'll never by NIB again. My buddy bought a NIB Turtles Pre and the code was crap until lately...still not perfect. I have not heard of any game in 2020 that was rock solid out of the box.
Buy used. Like a car. But buy from someone who LOVEs their car!

Hell yes... dont be a victim of FOMO.

I have rarely bought NIB because I want someone else to spend hours getting everything working and dialed in.

Its cheaper and less headache.

I could have bought a NIB Wonka when they were available but waited a month or two to find a nice used one that plays perfect.

I do love my SM. He's not getting as much attention as he used to with his newer, shinier brother, but I have to play at least one game every time I'm in my 'mini-gameroom.'

As much vitriol as there is in this thread, I have no doubt everyone who has a machine in their house is very glad it's there (in today's world).

I am glad there are options, but really it was the competition at our local leagues that kept pinball fun for me. My gf is not competitive and has no desire to get better, so I have nobody to play against. I rarely turn my machines on any more. I am mostly holding on to them because the games I do have are almost all in super awesome HUO condition, and I am afraid I’d regret selling them down the road. Maybe someday we can safely have pin competitions again.

You're being kind....Stern's "Quality Control" is non-existent, and the crap they produce has the durability of a soap bubble.

Ouch! what do you really think?

After my last few NIB games from all three major manufacturers they are like wrapped packages. You don’t know what is inside. I buy a HOU used one usually an LE below original cost when the panic sell wave starts in 60-90 days after release. I can see how holding up and what warranty items fixed or need to be fixed. I get free pinstadium lights, cliffys and mods. I pass on the ones having issues. AIQ Le’s perfect example. They are now drying up as 5 sold this week. Mine is all dialed in by previous string pinsider with new subway mech. Latest code and more refined than launch code. I love doing it this way. No surprises!

You know this from personal experience?

I'm glad you posted that. I was literally getting ready to send an email asking for pricing on a game. I think I'll move on to the next distributor.

My problem is I'm beginning to run out of distributors I'm willing to use.

Does a newb have the know-how and skills (and desire) to spend 40 hours dialing in a new game? I doubt it. I've found Sterns to be more reliable than the other brands, and I've bought just about everything NIB in the last 15 years or so. Many games routed and the Sterns hold up better than the other brands in my experience. That being said, problems tend to fall on deaf ears and you need to figure things out on your own. Same with JJP games actually. They've been harder to keep running on route.

Bullshit. Factor in inflation and the (pro) games cost what they did in the mid-2000's. Now with LCD displays, stereo sound, all LEDs, etc.

No, Stern's street price (nor MSRP) does not match the mid-2000s with inflation.
Stern also has multiple competitors it did not have in the mid-2000s which should help with pricing pressure - but instead the competition has been at a less price sensitive product point... allowing Stern to inflate prices in their wake.

I agree that even the newer Sterns hold up ok. I just think my older SAM/Whitestar games (TRON, AC/DC, LOTR) hold up even better. With Spike 2, the simplicity I imagine helps (in both electronics and mechs). JJP's games are pretty ornate and complex. Do the moving propellers on my DILE drones really add value? (a common mech that breaks quickly on many DILE's). Sometimes "less is more"...don't need a 400lb. pinball...250lb. is sufficient

Does it matter if the drones break? They literally add nothing to the game.

$4,000 in 2005 is $5,350 today. Pretty close to actual pro street price.

Agreed. But, those games back then would have been considered at the premium tier. Look at TSPP next to Zepp pro. We are talking Zizzle, baby!

That was my point...adding cost/complexity for features that don't add value is a waste.

Agreed, but most on here don't agree. They need more TOYS! TOYS! and TOPPERS! And then more TOYS! from the Hallmark store! And magnetic light strips, and subwoofers, and sound bars, and more TOYS!

I agree. But, there are also toys that add to gameplay or the overall experience. Interactive toys. Physical innovation that adds to the excitement of the game. That's way different than the cosmetic "toys" you mention. But, yes, there are many additions to some of these games purly just to add TOYS. I'm not saying I'm right. It's all personal preference. What makes a game special to me, might not do shit for you...

Ssshhh! ..Don’t tell that to my games...

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Yeah i ordered a NIB KISS LE from JJ next, but looking back, i mean i don't think ANY Distro is going to allow returns without a huge fight as how can they with Stern's quality control they would be swapping games non stop. I would order again from Trent because he let me sell my Ghostbusters LE spot for a huge profit because i called him and said hey I'm worried about chipping, so i was going to cancel, but I'm getting non stop offers for my spot can i sell it? He didn't care and was SUPER COOL about it. He could of just said no and refunded my deposit. I have only ever ordered from Trent & JJ so cant speak about other Stern distros.

Do some distributors really sell new Stern Pros for $5350? That's way under MSRP. That seems hard to believe. I bought my 1st NIB last August for $5650.

You’ve been fortunate as have I. However, make no mistake, Stern allows plenty of crap to escape their factory.

We would all love it if buying new games was a great experience but I will make this real simple. People buying the games at these prices and continuing to buy them are the problem. The games are getting stripped down and many have issues right of the box. These are not $100 items for crying out loud. New games cost THOUSANDS! For that kind of money they should have literally zero issues or the smallest of issues that phone support can walk a new owner that knows nothing on how to fix it. Unfortunately that is not the case. There is literally NO WARRANTY network amongst the manufacturers and distributors to provide TRUE satisfactory warranty service. The few distributors that do are far and few between. It’s a difficult situation as these are not easy for most people to bring to a distributor to correct an issue. And distributors lose time/money and I doubt Manufacturers compensate them for labor/expenses but just parts. I hate the cargumemt but you buy a new car and there is an issue you take it to the dealer and guess what....THEY FIX IT. As consumers we should expect the exact same and if we don’t get it then we should not be buying these games AT THESE PRICES.....Sounds like there is A HUGE potential for a CLASS ACTION lawsuit as the fact is it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to properly follow the warranty that comes with a game. All the damn paperwork says repairs should be made by a QUALIFIED technician yet Stern will send parts to NON QUALIFIED owners to install? WTF? A small adjustment is one thing but the issues I have seen reported are all over the place. The simple answer is quit buying these overpriced POS games. Don’t let FOMO drive your decision to buy. There are PLENTY of other cool things to spend your money on.

It’s time to to realize continuing buying new games at these prices with less features and numerous quality issues IS the problem. Speak with your wallet if you are sick of the issues and drama with each new release and quit buying new. Buy used where you can check out a game and usually find a better deal if you have to buy something.

They would have to allow returns on a defective product period. Either for an exchange or a full refund.

Buying used supports the manufacturer too.

That’s pretty amazing. I’ve had my LOTR for essentially the same time and only have 1500-1600 plays. I think I’ve replaced that switch maybe 3 times.

My Iron Man (which I traded a HUO TSPP for 10 years ago) only has 4800 plays.

I am not playing enough

Hey Jeff, my LOTR was @ Neon Retro Arcade (a free play arcade that I helped open in LA). The game was only in the arcade for 4-6 weeks IIRC, but was getting ~1000 plays a week! Crazy. I think the other reason for the high plays is it was at Marcel's event in Ft. Lauderdale.

It really doesn't. The math and data show this is actually devastating to the original manufacturer. The NIB box sales that turn over into the used market is a massive loss. I often wonder if it's even on Sterns radar. Anecdotally JJP seems to be a little more focuses and it doesn't seem to be hurting them. Stern on the other hand seems to just getting their asses kicked by the used market.

Here is how it works, lets say Joe and Fred are friends. Joe buy a NIB Stern. The experience is ok but he has to tinker with it and has a couple of problems. He gets it sorted out and his buddy Fred is getting interested. A few months go buy and Joe is bored with his NIB Pin and is thinking about selling it and maybe getting something else. He sells it to Fred. Joe may buy another NIB, but he may try a different company or even worse he may realize Fred saved some money and he kinda lost on the deal. Joe decides he is going to buy used. 1 NIB pin sold and you lost double that in revenue. You have 0 customers engaged and you have to try and win them back on the next one.

Take the same scenario but Joe NIB sale is flawless, he is in love and his friend Fred is in love. The nest shiny new pin comes out and Fred tries to get Joe to sell him his old pin. Joe says I can't I love it to much and the next one is going to be awesome you should buy it too. Both Joe and Fred buy another NIB. 1 NIB grew to 3 and you doubled the revenue on the next pin. You have two customers that are engaged and willing to spend.

JJP and some of the others do seem to be focused on being that Jewel in the crown of a collection. That pin that you have to get your own because you not having mine and get on board early for what is next. Stern has a few of them as well but they don't seem focused on it. They just seem to occasionally stumble into one. The other companies are focused on making another run of jewels. Stern drops a pin and everyone knows to just wait a couple weeks and you can grab used one. I'm not saying JJP and the others don't have issues just that they seem to be more focused on a better more successful marketing strategy to combat the revenue lost in the used market.

My imaginary data says most people that sell their NIB after some play buy another one.

I think you imaginary data is very close to reality. It's also true the marketing and data analysis guys would see that and be horrified. Stern is doing ok turning over pins to that hard core group of NIB buyers. Anyone can see that group is getting harder and harder to please and it's losing members. Stern is also squeezing that base for all its worth with Toppers and LED add ons. They need to kill that used market and expand the NIB buyers. They got a little boost with covid and some new blood has come in but they are not a healthy expanding company. Even in the case above if Joe buys NIB you still end up with a chain of used buyers behind every NIB. You do not want 4 people passing along a single item of your product. You have to push that number up as much as possible. If one pin goes through several hands it just shows you are only reaching a small portion of the potential market.