i understand both sides of the dilemma and it's certainly a double-edged sword...

On one hand: I love stern games, and buy many NIB. But have had an issue, in varying levels of significance, with most of them. I feel lucky to be capable of diagnosing and performing my own repairs, and do question what someone without my experience and know-how does to get their game playable in certain cases. They really need to get their support act together and stop hiding behind the Covid excuse for not answering the phone, and only replying by email.

On the other: I read Facebook and pinside often, and I see the sheer number of complaints and the variance of validity of them. i.e. the guy who crucified stern for their ignorance and his inability to connect with them despite his constant attempts, because the Captain America shot post was "missing" a sleeve. He was then informed by multiple other collectors, that that's how they all are and that it's like that by design. I read that and many others like it and say to myself, NO WONDER they don't want to answer the phone. And I don't blame them!

Yawn.....this thread

Oh, I miss Chaz. He and Pat were wonderfully helpful when I went through two SMVE playfield swaps because of ghosting inserts. Chaz also helped on other issues with both MET and SMVE. It took longer than I liked to solve the playfield issues, but they were taken care of.

After my experience with those two NIB Sterns, I haven't bought a new game from Stern since. I won't buy a Stern unless I or a trusted friend can inspect it first.

While I get the OP's frustration, I guess my only beef is that most problems have a relatively simple fix when it's a NIB problem. That's what's great about this site...if he would tell us what game he's talking about and be more specific with the problems, there are a lot of awesome people around here to help you out.

Take the glass off, get under the hood, and figure stuff out. It's how I learned, with help from LTG and others, and it's how I still figure things out. Sucks hard when you just paid good money for a game, but as somebody said before, it's one of the unfortunate downsides of the hobby.

54 posts and we still don’t know what the problems were.

So you think every distributor should have a fleet of techs that drive hours away to support any issue whether it's a stuck ball or broken rubber for pretty much any game regardless if they sold it or not? They would then bill Stern for hundreds of dollar and Stern would just pay it regardless? I'm not trying to defend Stern but you got to be realistic.

Why not? I know it's not quite the same, but back to the car analogy. I can take my car back to any dealer for service under warranty. It doesn't have to be the one I bought it from. The manufacturer pays the mechanic/tech for the service. Only difference I see here is the pin tech coming to you versus you taking the car to the mechanic.

Now I don't agree with any issue, such as a stuck ball. You don't get free wiper blades and oil changes (usually)

I am fortunate to have an awesome local distributor, Chris Kuntz at the Pinball Pirate. He gives free home delivery/set up and1 year in home warranty on new and used machines and has always been willing to service any machine I've had from him under warranty. He also offers to unbox and test/inspect/tune any nib machine prior to delivery to save everyone the hassles.

Pinball machines are not cars and distributors are not service centers. There is just no service industry for pinball machines and few legit pinball techs. Many people buy from out of state or far away distributors because there just isn't one close by. No tech is going to drive hours away in their own car and waste an entire day unless they are paid well. If you expect Stern to pay for all service calls around the world, expect to pay a whole lot more for a pin.

I am not biting if that is your interpretation of what I wrote.

Try again......

Yes! Pinball Pirate is a great distributor!

Maybe it was a broke coin door lock.

This trick works on me well. People bring me food and beer and get use of my house for the evening and I get a meal and help get their game running.

Still unclear of any of the problems, where is the OP?

If you (whoever started this thread) are dedicated to this hobby, you better be ready to pull off the glass every once in a while, otherwise buy a video game. I bought 2 NIB machines this year and one had a very easy to fix issue that both my distributor and Stern ...during the covid production line shut down!...quickly diagnosed and fixed. the other machine is still running perfectly w/ no issues.
Obviously ymmv. but set your expectations accordingly and wash your hands after handling the merchandise.

So, what are the issues? I read through and still don't know what the problem(s) OP had. This sounds more like someone not knowing anything about a pinball, buying a new one to avoid used issues only to discover that even NIB might need a few things after being shipped across country.

The OP has made 6 posts total. He starts this thread about 2 unnamed Stern pins from 2 different unnamed distributors. The first pin had issues but he doesn't tell us what they were. He received a full refund but still posted here to complain because that apparently required him to make several phone calls. The second pin had a non-functioning coin slot and a damaged toy but beyond that no details are given. The OP says he works in an unnamed industry where this type of thing never happens. People ask for details in hopes of giving him a hand but he never responds.

Maybe a clue to the types of issues he had are in his two previous threads that he started with with these posts:

I hear the issues. My experience in buying Stern nib games has been mostly great. Onetime a game came off the truck and the box had a hole or two in it with the box with the legs falling out. I was tempted to send it back. After opening it up I had no issues. One time I had a scratch on the lockdown bar, called distributor and received a new one. When you shift money out the door and you receive a box of problems, gas light the nation. I may have been there and done that to a smaller extent regarding a chipped shooterlane under 300 plays.

I buy other dealer sold toys like Tractors and side by sides. I could probably make 10 calls in a week to my local tractor dealer and they still wont answer the phone. At the beginning of this pandemic, I had to show up at the dealer with cash to show my intent to buy one as the sales guy couldn’t get me simple numbers over the phone. Regarding the side by sides, oh man. If you buy from a dealer thats cheaper and expect it to get resolved by the local dealer that was more expensive, HA! Your wrong.

I tried to learn most things about pinball in terms of maintenance like a sponge. In all these different dealer sold products, I feel like I need to solve my own problems sad to say. You might get replacement parts, but this forum threads the first time I heard that “local” pinball repairpeople were sent out to solve a problem.

The last few nib Sterns I recall no issues. The only issue I had was many of them didnt hold up to Tron or ACDC in terms of fun.

Pretty messed up thing to say since it seems the OP has his ducks in a row and did what was asked of him.

Id hate to be so rich(Well not really) or so apathetic that buying a new toy costing $8000 with multiple issues is considered "part of the NIB experience". Gee, sign me up?

Well, it's not that, really. It's just that by their nature, when pins are moved and knocked around...even when fully padded and strapped down, all those moving parts can be knocked slightly off kilter which can present themselves as major out of box issues. This happens when you ship a perfectly working used pin as well. There are usually adjustments that need to be made, and I think Woody's point was that people new to the hobby might not know that. It IS frustrating, though, but those of us who have been doing this for some time know to expect it.

My NIB MetLE has been stone cold reliable from playing it point of view. The F7 fuse blows once a year, my gravemarker targets need adjustments and my shooter is off center. I cant do much about #1, #2 is on me to get the replacement target springs adjusted correctly, and #3 has been something I have messed with since day one, but not a big deal.

With that said, I do have concerns with Stern QA, fortunately, they have not made my dream theme, yet. Mad Max/Road Warrior. I might be a bit more critical then!

And so the OP turns to the OEM and distributor for the help he needs and the "support" he expected and paid for, as a nib. Used pin? On your own..

Well, I DID say it's frustrating...

That's what she said!

But in all seriousness what other $6000 - $12,000 product is actually expected to show up broken? Just look at all the comments! Drop 6k and everyone just accepts it's the norm they'll have to fix it immediately. If spend 6k on a rolex that thing won't need maintenance ever.

So whats more valuable? A beefy pin that works every time with few toys or;
A complicated pin that needs adjustments?
I gotsta know

Best way to punish Stern, just stop buying, that is what i did years ago. Stern wants home level LE pricing but Operator B2B level service and support which i will not accept.

Have you ever bought a new car? lol

I hate when others put their initials in my game before me rofl

They ALL need adjustments. And I KNOW you know...

I heard that Game Room Guys have closed their Livonia store, so that would render them only in the Grand Rapids area again.

Every pin I have bought NIB has needed adjustments after shipping. Every used pin I have bought has needed adjustments after shipping. Nature of the beast when switches are involved.

Stern needs to understand. If they are going to sell games for top dollar, they need to support customers who have top dollar expectations.

This is true for all manufacturers as well.

"The wire fell out and was hanging down on playfield... Reseated cat 5 cables from cpu to node boards... I did have to adjust a few things, adjust opto, fix gate, ramp up post was set incorrectly. To be honest this game was never play tested at stern."

Sounds about normal to me after shipping. They pack these thing the best they can, but shipping companies do numbers on what they ship.

You bring up a good point on warranty. I'm fairly certain Stern would get roasted if someone took them to small claims.

The techs description of the issues are not uncommon. In fact it reads as if he/she is making sure all issues are amplified to the fullest extent. Your post reads like you are a lawyer. Curious, what is this customer first industry you speak that you are in involved with?

But they do support customers. They / his distro refunded his money!

How many Stern owners still waiting for playfields and other issues not addressed?

Not sure. I’ve received two populated playfield replacements from stern and numerous warranty parts so I’m good can’t speak for others. What are you waiting for from Stern?

If your collection is accurate you have never owned one.

This whole thread is stupid and overly negative because of a mismatch of expectations. If you know anything about pinball machines, they are freaking complicated with hundreds of moving parts, electrical switches, and connectors. To have an expectation of six sigma perfection when you fire up the machine first boot at home is just silly. It’s not a toaster. It’s not a car. It’s more like a partially finished good that requires final assembly, and most importantly- CALIBRATION. So a few things were jarred loose. Big whoop. Crucify the company and call in the dogs.

If you aren’t prepared to get your hands a little dirty and find joy in the troubleshooting process (and believe me, this is at least 25% of the ownership experience) then you should do something different.

You lost me here. If you’re going to own games, you’re going need to learn how to maintain them. Hell that’s half the fun. And if you stay in the hobby long enough, most get just as much enjoyment repairing/restoring games as they do flipping them.

Agreed. I started out so new to pin repair I used to get my junk caught under the glass.

Since then I’ve learned to get my junk stuck everywhere else. I’m a true handyman now!

Just buy a POS project to bring back to life it will make that NIB stern look pretty dam sweet

Stern and most other pin manufactures, but especially stern relies on dealers partially for this very reason. They are the first line of customer support for the end user. Any amusement distributor/dealer knows the game, it is similar to a car dealership. They don't just sell goods, its part of their job and its what sets apart bad dealers from good ones. That's if they want to sell for Sterns, Raw thrills, Namco or JJP. There are certain amusement manufactures where you HAVE TO get resolution through the distributor because they don't deal with the end user at all.

People tend to play the blame game, but in reality most NIB games have some issues and it doesn't stop with pinball.
Happy you were able to get your issue sorted.

Stern has done this to themselves. As games continue to command uncharted prices, Stern needs to pause and realize expectations for 10k games are going to be higher. People expect more, games should be void of defects and if in-service tech support is needed, sell an option at checkout for folks that don't want to get their hands dirty. Just helps set clear expectations for all involved and supports local businesses.

It´s clearly fun to fix things on games. You kind of get to know the game with time.

It´s not fun recieving something new, maybe even have a get together and then things are very far from working.

Also, with tech development it gets harder and harder to actually fix things, not to mention checking what is actually wrong, this is even further aggravated with manufacturers going the car way, with slotted parts, you cant really check, but have to replace whole components.

I don't buy this argument...I just shipped my AC/DC, KISS, STTNG and LOTR 3000 miles and they all played perfectly when they arrived.

Most NIB problems originate at the factory...the people building these are in a hurry and they are complex. And, despite the complexity, the testing is minimal.

when was that
my Batman TDK had dodgy cabinet decals and a switch out of alighnment

old operators have posted that new B/W machines had to be shopped before being routed

Funny, as right now I’m restoring a DM. While built like a tank, I can clearly see the rush when it was put together. Cabinet is a fudged disaster, and since this pin was never even shopped, can’t blame the owner.

Of course these were, what, $1500-$2500 nib back in 1994?

Stern will become reactive, not proactive on the home collector once sales suffer. But until then, hey, keep supporting the insanity folks.

You're a lucky guy. I've had problems with new and used games. In both of our cases, the sample size is too small to say it doesn't happen. Doesn't mean either one of us is wrong.

They don’t care about the customer.