(Topic ID: 285650)

Buying a NIB Stern sucks (and I really want to like it)!


By e4wesley

16 days ago



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    There are 284 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
    63
    #1 16 days ago

    Good Evening,

    I am new to pins but my first NIB buying experience has left me disappointed and confused. I shopped around. The local pin shop has a monopoly and prices NIB pins about $1-3k (plus sales tax) more than national distributors. I decided to purchase a NIB pro from a distributor with a good reputation.

    STERN BUYING EXPERIENCE #1:

    Unfortunately, the NIB Stern was defective out of the box with multiple operator errors. I contacted the distributor and Stern for assistance. I expressed my concern that this was a lemon and I wanted to return/exchange the pin. My goal was to avoid an immediate significant hassle. The distributor told me I needed to give them a chance to get it fixed and I reluctantly agreed.

    WARNING - MAJOR POTHOLE AHEAD: Stern's warranty service is lacking professional administration and support.

    It appears Stern's warranty process is for the distributor to kick the service request over to Stern and Stern then kicks the service request over to a locally authorized service provider. There appears to be no additional follow-up from Stern and the service request is considered addressed. This leads to a significant process gap.

    In my city, the only authorized service provider is the previously mentioned local pin shop which is very hostile to these service requests. In my case, the local pin shop simply delayed/ignored my service request without ever scheduling a service appointment. Without follow-up from the distributor or Stern, my NIB unit remained unrepaired for almost one month in the living room of my home.

    Eventually, with many, many phone calls by me to the distributor and in coordination with Stern, my unit was inspected by a different third party repair service. This third party repair service had far less experience than a Stern authorized service provider and was not able to complete the needed repairs. However, the unit was found to be experiencing significant defects and was ultimately returned to the original distributor and I received a full refund - so there's that.

    Upon the distributor's professional inspection, multiple repairs to various functions/parts were required and it was determined this unit should never have passed Stern's quality control and was likely never play tested by Stern.

    STERN BUYING EXPERIENCE #2:

    I decided to try a different Stern pin with a different distributor. This NIB Stern pin arrived with one non-functioning coin slot and one damaged toy. When I mentioned the coin slot issue to distributor #2, they simply suggested I put the game in free play.

    CONCLUSION: I am at a loss

    As background, I work in a high margin industry where the bare minimum level of service is meeting customer expectations. Our goal is always to exceed customer expectations and when something goes wrong we take complete ownership of the issue. Ultimately, if something is not righted quickly, we issue refunds, apologies, and future goodwill credit.

    This seems to be the exact opposite of the pin buying experience. This leaves me to feel that the Stern product quality is subpar and the Stern warranty service is even worse. I am new to buying pins. I am not looking to burn a distributor's reputation or Sterns (no names have been referenced above). I just cannot believe this is the industry standard.

    P.S. I wrote a very detailed email documenting my experience and emailed it to Gary Stern and Stern customer service. It's been one month and I have not received a response nor an acknowledgment. Again, this would be completely unheard of in my industry and leaves me scratching my head.

    15
    #2 16 days ago

    This won't end well. For you OR this thread...

    EDIT: Not quite sure why all the downvotes. Threads like this usually get attacked on Pinside. It wasn't a diss on the OP at all.

    23
    #3 16 days ago

    The difference between the industry your in and pinball is possibly competition. At this point Stern is probably about 80-90% of the market, so they don't have an incentive to compete on customer service. That's a guess, I have no experience with them directly.

    #4 16 days ago
    tenor (resized).png
    #5 16 days ago

    I’m also new and since November I’ve bought 4 machines all NIB. 3 have been delivered already by a dealer and all 3 work flawless. One machine had a very minor issue in a specific area. Dealer came right over and fixed. Actually if I would have even thought that was the issue I would have fixed it myself.

    Can’t imagine a company sending 2 machines out with these kind of problems and staying in business for long. I think Stern plans to stay around fora while. I’m happy with the machines I’ve received.

    48
    #6 16 days ago

    If you’re trying to help people out, why not name the distributors or the pins/issues that you had so you could help others avoid your situation. Without that, this just reads like a sad short story in a made for TV movie.

    #7 16 days ago

    Every NIB game I have ever purchased had issues out of the box except AFM remake. Welcome to the club!

    I think this is going to be a on going issue with all these NEW folks in the hobby. Can we get past this covid crap so all these new guys can sell their games and move back to playing golf or something?

    #8 16 days ago
    Quoted from ShooterMcD:

    If you’re trying to help people out, why not name the distributors or the pins/issues that you had so you could help others avoid your situation. Without that, this just reads like a sad short story in a made for TV movie.

    I do agree with naming distributors. We got to hold these guys accountable. In all seriousness if the distro knew he was new to the hobby he should have set the games up for him and made sure everything was good to go.

    #9 16 days ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    Every NIB game I have ever purchased had issues out of the box except AFM remake. Welcome to the club!
    I think this is going to be a on going issue with all these NEW folks in the hobby. Can we get past this covid crap so all these new guys can sell their games and move back to playing golf or something?

    That’s ironic. My two NiB sterns have been trouble free but my afm remake had some issues.

    20
    #10 16 days ago

    Who you buy your NIB games from matters. There are many distributors, but only a handful actually have your back when issues arise. With that said, I stopped purchasing NIB Stern's as their quality is atrocious.

    10
    #11 16 days ago

    every nib machine we buy has issues and we buy them from all of them, not just Stern. Also, many items fail within the first 100 plays or so (coil stops, flipper springs, optos, sling shot rubber). best to buy from someone local that may deliver and setup for you for a fee and maintain it if you aren't ready to deal with these things

    #12 16 days ago

    Guess i got lucky. Got my first nib stern last week and the only issue i had was the start button was loose and had to be rotated and clicked in. Also, great experience with my distro too.

    #13 16 days ago

    Without any kind of specific details it’s impossible to conclude if you indeed bought a defective product or are being a bitchy customer.

    #14 16 days ago

    Queue Stern Army members saying "I've bought a Stern and haven't had an issue" and ignoring the OP's concerns...

    #15 16 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Queue Stern Army members saying "I've bought a Stern and haven't had an issue" and ignoring the OP's concerns...

    He should give specifics about all the issues he had with the first pin and also the distributor. Seems more fault on the distributor for delivering a pin with issues I am assuming it was not dropped ship from Stern. Also the distributor apparently doesn’t know how to service them either.

    One faulty coin mech not working is really not an issue if it’s for HUO, that’s why there is a free play setting. If everything else works 100% I don’t see a reason to bitch about the second pin he received.

    I have one NIB Stern BKSOR premium and one Stern demo unit ST pro and one CGC NIB and all work great. Pablo has been great with getting replacement front door decal and updated upper playfield plastic for BKSOR that was scratched from FedEx, and new updated ramp for ST.

    Sucks when you get one with issues, but the distributor sounds like he sucks.

    #16 16 days ago
    Quoted from e4wesley:

    This seems to be the exact opposite of the pin buying experience. This leaves me to feel that the Stern product quality is subpar and the Stern warranty service is even worse. I am new to buying pins. I am not looking to burn a distributor's reputation or Sterns (no names have been referenced above). I just cannot believe this is the industry standard.

    Stern's quality control sucks and it's imperative to purchase from a reputable distributor. Not all distributors care about their customers the same way and there are only a handful I will purchase from. You really should be letting the pinball community know who you had bad experiences with so others can avoid them in the future. It's not "outing" anyone and they will continue to do this to the next customer if they know there are no repercussions.

    Quoted from e4wesley:

    P.S. I wrote a very detailed email documenting my experience and emailed it to Gary Stern and Stern customer service. It's been one month and I have not received a response nor an acknowledgment. Again, this would be completely unheard of in my industry and leaves me scratching my head.

    Chances are slim Gary will actually get to read it. He doesn't care about the home collector and used to shit on us every opportunity he could during the expo seminars. Yes they make games for the home collectors however that is out of necessity since games are not on location like they used to be. He is laughing all the way to the bank as another title like LZ sells out of its LE's in a few days. If you can try to reach out to George Gomez because he has a larger presence on social media and in my past experiences seemed to have actually cared.

    #17 16 days ago

    Your expectations were way too high. Even so, there are a ton of bad and good distributors. Stern’s quality control has always only been as good as it needs to be to keep the doors open. Becoming a distributor is extremely easy, especially if there is no one to compete with in your area of the country. It’s not like buying a new car. It’s not like buying a new stove. It’s not like buying a new TV. It’a a lot more like buying a swimming pool. It’s never going to be maintenance free and there will always be concerns and issues no matter who you buy from or what you do.

    You should consider reaching out to Pinside members or other league/locations in your area that are extremely experienced with pinball and ask them what distributor they buy through. Unfortunately, pinball manufacturer’s profits are rarely spent on quality control, customer service and distribution. Sad fact is that they don’t really need any of those things to work perfect to sell ultra expensive toys to pinball nerds. Just pump out the next piece of $7K-$10K candy and it flies off the shelf until it’s sold out. Even if it’s a flop, they sell enough of them to at least break even. This is all carefully calculated and decided before a game license is even secured. So sad but so true.

    #18 16 days ago

    Yeah, you should definitely let us know who the Distros that let you down were. For the good of the community. And also, without know their side, it sounds like maybe you just got a couple of bad distros. I've heard of plenty of distros doing a lot for their customers. So I mean, maybe it was bad luck?

    #19 16 days ago

    That’s some serious bad luck. I’ve bought many nib games over the last several years from stern, cgc and spooky and I’ve had minimal issues. My distributor has immediately sent his tech over and/ or ordered the needed parts. I’ve never had to pay for these parts either they have all been warrantied. My distributor is nitro pinball btw.

    Maybe I’ve just been lucky but I’ve yet to have a major malfunction or playfield issue yet. I even had no ghosting on my gb premium!

    #20 16 days ago

    Stern is hit or miss with a issue, depends on which tech answers the phone.

    I like my distro a lot, I thought he is a tad slow/lazy, if there is a issue. His response is to give you Stern's phone number. That ticked me off at first, but now I know how everything is handled and I am fine with it.

    I first hand heard my distro on the phone one time while I was picking up a game on the phone with Stern trying to get someone help.

    I first hand heard that a distro can not do much more than we can when dealing with Stern.

    And since that time I have purchased a few more games from AP and JJP, and 0 from Stern.

    Your best bet if you want a Stern is to buy it used, and inspect it closely.

    I can say through the years I have bought 6 nib Sterns, and I overall give them a grade of 80%, but I stopped buying any of their games 2 years ago.

    I do wish Stern and all the pinball companies the best!

    BUT, Stern does need to step up their customer service. One time they gave me 110%, but other times 0%, or 80%, it is just all over the place depending on who is answering the phone at the time at Stern.

    #21 16 days ago

    Sorry to hear and wish your experience was a better one. I miss the days of my NIB Stern buying experience. LOTR and spidey for around $4,000 and just a minor bracket adjustment here and there.

    20
    #22 16 days ago

    1. Make some friends that can repair games.
    2. Buy them food.
    3. Never worry about this again.

    #23 16 days ago

    I called my distributor yesterday about emailed pictures of my new in box game from July. I have playfield issues that are bad. My distributor said Stern is very slow. I told him I am going to keep calling him until I get what I want. Distributors have their hands tied. It’s easy for them. Sell the game, take the money, pass the buck to Stern. I want to start selling a product I don’t have to do anything with if something goes wrong. Win Win situation.

    #24 16 days ago

    Dude buy a somewhat broken machine. Break so it don’t work. Then have your wife tell you once a week”I know what we should do light 30 one hundred dollar fire for fun.” Welcome to the hobby Wesley.

    12
    #25 16 days ago

    Yeah, I don’t know about this post. What were the issues? I buy every new stern that comes out, never had an issue out of the box outside of minor adjustments. Doesn’t mean others might not have issues, some serious, but I would not cast a broad brush against nib. When I have had issues, like with my subway in aiq, stern promptly sent parts. They have great service.

    That said, for someone without any experience, a pinball machine can be daunting so I am sympathetic to the OP. But, Rather than posting the negative side of his story, He maybe should have come on here and sought help. 99 times out of 100, if you have an issue, someone else also has had that issue and it can be fixed.

    Would be great if op could post his issues he had with his game.

    #26 16 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    stern promptly sent parts.

    I've been a NIB Stern customer since 2004. For the first 10 years, Pat Powers gave me great service. For the past 6 years, getting parts has been a PITA (and I've dealt with 3 different distributors over that time period). For example, when my Munsters CPU died after 30 games, took Stern over 1 month to get me a new one. Distributor's complain about Stern's timelines as well.

    #27 16 days ago
    Quoted from EJS:

    Sorry to hear and wish your experience was a better one. I miss the days of my NIB Stern buying experience. LOTR and spidey for around $4,000 and just a minor bracket adjustment here and there.

    They don't build 'um like they use to. My NIB LOTR has been a stunning work horse...so incredibly reliable.

    #28 16 days ago

    I had issues with my aiq subway. Needed two parts. First time I went through my distro, cointaker, had the part within a week. Second part I went to stern directly via email, Pablo responded quickly and I had the part within a week or so. Experiences vary I guess, but mine has been positive. I have not needed much from stern tech/parts support, but when I have they’ve always been responsive.

    16
    #29 16 days ago

    This illustrates the importance of buying from your local distributor. A new pinball buyer needs a local distributor if they want service as well. This allows the buyer to see an play a variety of titles and ultimately purchase a play tested and inspected game.

    Unfortunately, many new buyers are more worried about getting the cheapest price, or avoiding sales tax. Rarely do the words “cheapest” and “full service” go together. If you expect full service then a dealer within a reasonable distance is a must, buying from a dealer 100’s of miles away would not be the best option. Ultimately, you will have repairs to do on any machine, it’s inevitable. So it will be very important to locate a good technician nearby.

    Many dealers provide excellent service from a distance, but they are working with the buyer whom is doing the repairs themselves. Providing parts and support, which is more the norm.

    I saw something years ago that I really appreciated this is not mine but love it

    “The rules of business, please pick two, any two.

    Great Service
    Good quality
    Cheap price

    With great service, and good quality, the price is not cheap
    With good quality and a cheap price, there is not service
    With great service and a cheap price, quality suffers”

    #30 16 days ago

    What problems did you have with your game? Did you ask anyone on Pinside for help or tips?

    #32 16 days ago

    .

    #33 16 days ago

    I will take e4wesley ( op) side on this one . Ordered new AIQ prem. first new in box , took 3 mo. to get it . First game out of the box - shoot the portal - ball sets there untill its kicked out with a ball search . Turn the game off - on start up the walking lock coil fires 21 times before start of a game . OK so I'll give Stern tech support a call to see whats up ? Looks like calling and talking to a tech. is a thing of the past . Email them - wait a couple of day's - email is answered with the shortest answer possible . Meanwhile I find middle opto in the subway not working . Looks like I have to fix it my self - tear the subway apart and find a bad opto that if I push on the opto board - that fixes it . Game no longer fires the lock coil 21 times at start . Tell stern I need a new opto . no answer back - few days later a new opto pair show up .
    Next problem - I can never collect a gem - find the opto. on the right ramp not working - push on the opto board - and it works .
    Problem 3 - shoot the ball in the portal and it never closes - do a switch a number of times and they all work . This time I decide to go through my distributor - they don't get an answer back from Stern . So I just replace the enter opto with the new one Stern sent . Game works as it should ! So bottom line out of the box it had 3 bad opto's . I had no help from tech. support and none from the distributor . Out of all the 25 or more used games I've had it has never taken a mounth to get them going .

    #34 16 days ago

    So you avoided the local distributor but then wanted their assistance when you had problems? If you are talking about Joystix, I have bought games from them in the past when new to hobby. When I bought my ST pro nib, they opened it up and let me play/inspect it before paying. I probably could of saved money buying from another distributor out of state but not worth the risk imo for the exact reason you described.

    It sucks you had so many issues but you were not exactly clear what those issues were. It is very common for nib games to need adjustments or small fixes. If Stern had to pay for a tech to come out to every home to adjust switches, swap out bulbs, and dislodge stuck balls on new games they would go broke in weeks. Pinball is different than other industries where the expectation is games will need constant maintenance and end user will do that maintenance. If a game has serious problems like node board failures, Stern support is usually good over the phone to work things out.

    #35 16 days ago

    If you live in Detroit area there is no local Distributor !

    41
    #36 16 days ago

    If I knew nothing about pinball machines, I'd expect a $5k-10k one that's brand new to work 100% too. In any other industry that would be a given.

    When a $50 playstation game doesn't work, there's a national uproar.

    #37 16 days ago

    I've been able to avoid dealing with Stern service because the 4 NIB Sterns I've purchased over the last 4 years have all functioned flawlessly. I've never even had to take the glass off of them. I had the opposite experience with Jersey Jack where 4 out of the 5 NIB games I've purchased required significant time on the phone with (a very helpful) service tech and replacement parts. Due to overall good outcomes in every case, I plan to continue to buy NIB games from both companies.

    47
    #38 16 days ago
    Quoted from e4wesley:

    In my city, the only authorized service provider is the previously mentioned local pin shop which is very hostile to these service requests. In my case, the local pin shop simply delayed/ignored my service request without ever scheduling a service appointment. Without follow-up from the distributor or Stern, my NIB unit remained unrepaired for almost one month in the living room of my home.

    I really don't care what he bought or from whom, this is BULLSHIT. Guy pays top dollar for a Stern Pro and it doesn't work. The distributor should have had someone out within 72 hours. Don't care how little or big the issue(s) were. What does it matter what the problems are? The basic directive should be get the customer up & running. Phone support, tech support, whatever it takes. That IS customer service.

    Anyone defending STERN or the distributor, or calling the OP out, you are just as much part of the problem if you think this is OK. When the other distributor had to take the machine back, they stated this machine never should have passed QC. Newbie issues my ass!

    13
    #39 16 days ago

    A Pinball machine ins't a PlayStation, and if you think the customer experience should be similar, you will be disappointed. They break. Sometimes a lot. Even new ones. They require maintenance. Support requests should be responsive and courteous, but owning a machine isn't for everyone.

    #40 16 days ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    A Pinball machine ins't a PlayStation, and if you think the customer experience should be similar, you will be disappointed. They break. Sometimes a lot. Even new ones. They require maintenance. Support requests should be responsive and courteous, but owning a machine isn't for everyone.

    But it should work the first time you turn it on. Slight adjustments or replacing a bulb or something is a given, but it should be functional the first time you play it. Now from game one on, you should expect things to break eventually and require standard maintenance.

    I look at a pin a lot like a car. I expect a perfectly working car when I drive it off the lot, but every mile I drive is causing wear that will require upkeep and eventual failure. I'll have to adjust the seat, the mirrors, and save my favorite radio stations. Those are the equivalent of a few switch adjustments.

    #41 16 days ago
    Quoted from TenaciousT:

    If you live in Detroit area there is no local Distributor !

    I think Game Room Guys in Livonia are a Stern distributor, not sure how good their pricing is.

    #42 16 days ago
    Quoted from loneacer:

    But it should work the first time you turn it on. Slight adjustments or replacing a bulb or something is a given, but it should be functional the first time you play it. Now from game one on, you should expect things to break eventually and require standard maintenance.

    I agree, it should. But sometimes they don't. 300LB boxes being shipped by freight all across the world. Issues out of the box(while usually are simple for us to fix) are not uncommon.

    #43 16 days ago

    This is the first time I’ve ever heard of a full refund on a NOB game! Anyone else?

    11
    #44 16 days ago

    I bought my first used pinball 11 years ago and my first NIB 7 years ago. I've had more problems with NIB's than the used ones!

    The customer service is definitely not up to par with other industries, which is sad. These games are 6-12k and the QC really sucks. Read the threads and you see the same problems over and over on the same game titles. It's crazy when people make a laundry list (appreciated) of things that need to be done to set some of the NIB titles coming out currently.

    I feel for the OP's situation, because nobody should buy a toy that's this expensive and be expected to accept no or very little customer service. Nor should people expect the buyer to have to learn how to work on the thing over night.

    -5
    #45 16 days ago

    Several points for 1st time game purchasers highlighted in this post .

    Reread OVFDFIREMAN post . You kept 1-3 K in pocket . For this discount you rolled the dice all would be well . Actual result well short of optimal result .

    Being NIB selling distributor not obligated to pull , play , dial in the game , rebox without a fee for their time .

    Google search Stern NIB pinball issues or post same here pinside would have warranted caution.

    Your background as far as work high margin industry has no bearing . Agree or disagree Stern solely operates company as the boss directs . Get ready to wait software updates !

    Maybe better course would to originally offered cash to local vendor to price match . Cash does talk . If you only buy one NIB getting best deal not as important as long term relationship .

    My reply intended for the next new 1st NIB persons education .

    e4wesley I do hope you enjoy your second game ! Forwarned pinballs will break !

    Shane

    #46 16 days ago

    Without some context re: what was actually broken with the first game this is hard to assess; must have been crazy bad if a refund was given!

    A "broken coin slot" could be something jammed in the slot, a broken coin mech, a miswired or broken switch, a broken wire to the coin door etc... should it arrive from the factory that way? No. Should it be a fixable problem? Yes.

    Welcome to pinball; part of the hobby for most people is tinkering with the pins and making them play better.

    To the poster above who has not taken the glass off NIB games in years, wow. I clean and wax my games pretty often and polish/inspect the balls in them at least twice a year. Plus tweaking this or that and getting a game dialed in a little bit better. I would suggest at the very least changing out your balls at this point, and make sure you clean the balls before throwing them in the game. They usually have oil on them to prevent rusting...

    #47 15 days ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    This is the first time I’ve ever heard of a full refund on a NOB game! Anyone else?

    I know of a few, but it is rare. 100% depends on the distributor.

    #48 15 days ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    This illustrates the importance of buying from your local distributor. A new pinball buyer needs a local distributor if they want service as well. This allows the buyer to see an play a variety of titles and ultimately purchase a play tested and inspected game.
    Unfortunately, many new buyers are more worried about getting the cheapest price, or avoiding sales tax. Rarely do the words “cheapest” and “full service” go together. If you expect full service then a dealer within a reasonable distance is a must, buying from a dealer 100’s of miles away would not be the best option. Ultimately, you will have repairs to do on any machine, it’s inevitable. So it will be very important to locate a good technician nearby.
    Many dealers provide excellent service from a distance, but they are working with the buyer whom is doing the repairs themselves. Providing parts and support, which is more the norm.
    I saw something years ago that I really appreciated this is not mine but love it
    “The rules of business, please pick two, any two.
    Great Service
    Good quality
    Cheap price
    With great service, and good quality, the price is not cheap
    With good quality and a cheap price, there is not service
    With great service and a cheap price, quality suffers”

    And which two apply to stern pinball?
    *puzzled*

    17
    #49 15 days ago

    Once again, the solution is to not buy a NIB machine. Until enough people stop supporting them buy buying each machine that is put out, they have zero incentive to fix these issues. It's going to take a significant disruption to business for things to change. That probably isn't going to happen because people can't stop themselves from paying thousands of dollars for unproven products, but until it does this is what you get. You buy a NIB, you should expect issues and feel lucky if you don't have any.

    #50 15 days ago

    Imo you got your money back from game one that’s a plus. Took a while that’s a minus but overall you got out of jail free. I wouldn’t complain.

    Second machine sounds like you are looking for trouble. Give them a chance to fix the toy and the coin door don’t go screaming at the top of your lungs that Stern sucks.

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