I would have just said make sure you buy from a authorized distributor of JJP to have a warranty. I think calling out TNT was not needed.

Nice that you don't have to worry about this with Stern - they've never asked who my distributor was when I've needed service.

For the record, neither has JJP with mine. I bought mine used from another collector, and JJP has be very supportive despite this.

I just think he doesn't want anybody getting screwed.

Maybe.

I would argue that TNT does a lot for the pinball community. I for one appreciate the goofy videos they put out. Someone probably traded them a WOZ for something else - what are they supposed to do not sell it? If anything is questionable here it's Jack's policy. It does nothing for the customer and only exists to benefit Jack and the "authorized distributors."

Pretty sure of it. One sale doesn't make or break Joe's business when he's buying a dozen WOZ machines at a time. What he doesn't like is when customers are lied to about JJP stuff.

It's what I love about Joe - he's a no bullshit guy. And yes, he's out to make money as well. But it's not his first job, and it's not his first priority in this hobby. He loves pinball. Which is why he has like 180 machines (he doesn't even list them all on Pinside).

Love, ya', Joe! Thanks for all your help in the past!

It sucks that Jack does not simply warranty his product.

When a buy a used truck, I still get the remainder of the factory warranty.

No Ford or BMW dealer has ever refused me warranty service because I bought the car second hand.

I would think Todd would support the JJP pin he sold just as any other pin he sold.

Personally, I wasn't overtly aware that they weren't a distributor (but granted, I haven't been actively looking for a distributor to buy from anyway). They've presented various NIB WoZ games on their youtube channel, so that's likely where the confusion could be coming from.

On the other hand, TNT says they include a service plan of some sort with the games they sell.

Maybe Mercedes is different? I'm not sure if that is what Pinballstar is saying, but that's the way it reads to me.

I agree with you - I've never had a problem getting factory warranty coverage on a used car, regardless of brand.

I was curious what their exact terms were so I clicked "Top 10 Reasons to Buy From Us". Kind of funny.

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http://www.tntamusements.com/services/

Maybe I am missing something but I am guessing the problem is the fixed pricing model. If somebody (such as TNT..a non-authorized seller of WOZ games) trades for a NIB WOZ from an authorized distributor (such as Doughslingers or Pinballstar) and then turns around and sells it for $250 less than the suggested retail the authorized distributors get mad. However, it is the authorized distributors that are the ones doing the trading to increase their revenues. How else would the game get in the hands of a non-WOZ authorized seller? You can't have it both ways. It is not fair to the customers or non-authorized distributors doing the trading.
Either all games should get the equivalent warranty or distributors should not be allowed to trade their games away. Also, these are the same distributors that jumped in the line to get WOZ games before many of us pre-orderers.

This would be a good time for JJP to chime in on this thread as there is conflicting info here about machines not covered from Todd but are covered from private party sales.

If I were a potential customer, this would be confusing.

So Todd is able to buy a game from jjp/ distributor and turn around and sell it cheaper than you can being a distributor. Sounds like your bitch is with Jack.

The problem is Jack's unreasonable warranty restrictions. When you're late time after time, you should be bending over backwards with liberal policies to build customer loyalty.

And calling out a competitor on Pinside is uncool, especially one that has contributed so much to the community.

Bad form.

When I see the OP make a post about a speedtrap on the turnpike, or that he got the runs at the Springfield Chipotle, then I'll maybe believe he's just a great guy looking out for me. Till then, this is just a "Buy-it-from-me-for-more money" and "Todd Tuckey is a scoundrel" thread.

"Don't reward those with no skin in the game who are just looking to flip a game or two to make a quick buck and disappear..."

That sentence shouldn't have appeared in a post complaining about TNT.

Just for the record, for the most part he has been very supportive on warranty items (even out of warranty items when for things like the LED light boards and power driver boards).

But if JJP doesn't warranty the game TNT sold when something craps out, you'll be wrong. I only wish we would hear about it here if it happens. But we probably won't.

(And Joe did warn me about the Springfield Chipotle, but I didn't listen. I had Montezuma's revenge for a week after having a bad pork burrito.)

I've heard TNT doesn't offer financing either.

Hey man, I'm just responding to what I'm reading. Anecdotal evidence is nice, but it's not written policy.

Yeah, WTF. You're talking about a guy who was doing gameplay walkthroughs when there was nothing but VHS, calling him a flipper who's likely to vanish is pretty low.

I get it, distributors are part of the system, and Jack needs to support them.

But when I see things like this it just makes me think that the resale value on JJP games is gonna tank, since they're apparently not supported if you're not the original buyer with a receipt. That sucks for original owners, because it devalues their games.

Dumb policy.

I think you need to get JJP to stop authorized distributors from trading their NIB JJP games because it is causing you heartache. If that is not a good plan, then you could start doing what other authorized distributors are doing, wheeling and dealing to keep cash flowing.

I think that this is useful information and I do not believe that the OP had any bad intent. Sure TNT has provided allot for the pinball community and the community and other consumers have supported TNT and allowed them to stay in business for so long. I myself have had issues with Todd after many good transactions, that said, I would not patronize TNT anymore but I would not have any issues sending him customers. If I spend $9,000 on a game it would be incumbent of the buyer to know about a warranty or lack thereof. Also, it is a least partial responsibility of the seller to disclose any information regarding warranty etc. My two cents....

I think it is honorable to be dedicated and speak out on JJP's behalf but I think it should be an announcement made by JJP not a licensed distributor.

Even though I am in a different country, I agree with vid that even in Aus the warranties are transferable for parts on cars etc, maybe not service fees. If the machine hasn't been tapered with and there is a copy of the original purchase receipt with the machine it should be still be covered under a certain type of warranty for parts at least.

Sorry, the Mercedes analogy makes my point, not yours. Mercedes' warranties go with the car, regardless if I buy one from Todd Tuckey on CL, Acme Mercury/Ford, or Beverly Hills Mercedes. And I can take my Mercedes that I bought from my local dealer and have it serviced under warranty at any of the 2000 Mercedes dealers across the country or across my county...and they all are happy to do the work and have Mercedes send them the warranty check.

THAT is how world-class manufacturers handle warranties.

Yep. That's the root cause of the issue. TNT didn't get that game off Ebay or CL.

OP's single intent for this post is to bitch about losing a sale, and try and not lose more to someone else under selling him.
It is veiled as concern for the "Pinball community".

I'd rather be protected from those that can't service it.

Its hard to place the analogy from cars to pinball. If I bought a WOZ, there isn't anyone within 5 hours who could help me with it. I can't bring it anywhere, I can't get any help.

Doesn't make any sense to even have a dist for me because it'd bascially just be a middle man that shaves off part of the price of woz and sends the rest to JJP.

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Todd does a lot for this hobby. He has been around for a long time and knows what he is doing. He also treats his customers great. I am sure he offered them some type of warranty of his own. Stupid JJP warranty policies is just one of the many reasons I would never buy a JJP game. So dumb to only offer warranties on authorized distributors. Looks like a back door exit strategy if things go too wrong with so many games.

Worst cargument ever. Yes, you can only purchase a NEW (still on MSO, never titled ... NIB) Mercedes at a Mercedes dealer. The warranty is provided by the manufacturer ON THE VEHICLE (not the buyer) for the specified duration. ANYBODY can take that vehicle to a MB dealer during the warranty period and get it repaired under warranty .... guess who that includes ... a BMW dealer BTW (been there done that during my time in the car biz) if the car has an issue covered by the warranty.
If the BMW dealer wants to sell his customer a Mercedes with "0" miles (meaning new ... obviously it will have something ) he can buy it from a MB dealer and sell it as "used" and it will still have the FULL Mercedes warranty behind it (based on the date it was sold to BMW).
If you buy a USED Mercedes at a KIA dealership you are still entitled to what ever factory warranty is available (based on time/mileage etc).

I have even seen customers get reimbursed for repairs that should have been warranty even though it was not done at a dealer but just an independent repair shop.

Who cares about the warranty? All I ever hear is "they are built like a tank".

It sounds like the proper thing to do is for JJP to refer the customer to the original Distributor that was shipped that Serial Number. That way, the dealer that sold it in the first place (possibly at a deep discount to another dealer) is responsible for the added costs and headaches. Not the retailer. If TNT wants to stand behind and support their sale, than that's up to them regardless of JJP warranty policy.

You could always be the bigger guy and offer warranty parts for a fellow WOZ owner and win yourself a new future customer !

I'm sure the "official" policy from JJP and Stern is that only games sold through authorized distributors are warrantied. The "unofficial" policy from both JJP and Stern seems to be that the games have a full warranty regardless of where they are purchased. I haven't heard a single story about JJP or Stern not honoring a warranty because the game was bought from an unauthorized distributor.

If buying used, tough titties.

Problem I see here is TNT Lists as NEW IN CRATE on their page here: http://www.tntamusements.com/inventory/pinball-machines/.

This thread may be a direct call out, but also could be just a buyer beware warning.

Ive never dealt with either seller, and wont comment on the integrity of any of them

Yes I have watched the TNT vids on youtube, helps you see a lot of games you may not normally have the chance to.

Good luck to all buyers and YAY PINBALL!

Correct, and Jack said it clearly a long time ago:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-nib-wozle-7500-huo-transformers-le-autobots-4500-huo-safecracker-8k?tq&tu=JerseyJack

I'm surprised we have not heard a flood of people with "unauthorized" games that Jack built scream about the lack of support. But I have not heard a single case of it yet. I think if someone owns a game that Jack built, and it had an issue, and he didn't support it... well we would be hearing about that loudly. So I put it out to the greater Pinside... has a single person not gotten support that they should have from Jack? I know the legal standing of it, but what has he actually done?

Yeah, when was the last time any pinball machine came "New in crate".

Friggin' shame.

I thought about that too, however most people that are on these forums are enough into the hobby that they had the heads up to only buy from authorized distributors. The people that just bought the game because they liked the movie and got it from Joe Blow distributor may not have a pinside account to complain.

Aurich, way to chime in on East Coast issues! And here I was thinking you disappeared absent the Alien thread. LOL.

I agree it is the JJP policy that's faulty. I've dealt with Todd a few times buying and selling to him, and he has helped me on the fly with issues with other games without even blinking. I would fault him more for his infamous "tossing of games from his rooftop stunt" (even though most were trashy non-functioning EM's) than I would for selling a WOZ even though he's not an authorized distributor. If someone bought the game from him NIB, and didn't ask about the warranty, that would be on them. If they did and he misrepresented (which I doubt), that would be another story.

I learned everything I need to know about non-transferable warranties here-

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/selling-huo-wizard-of-oz-le-pinball-machine-7000/page/3