I buy games to do major restorations on and after they are done they are like artwork Sitting around the house as if they came with it. I love to do a lot of plating and make them like new after that don't play them much on to the next restoration

My favorite is finding a very dirty, non-working machine. It needs to have a decent condition playfield as I have not tackled that aspect of restoration yet and not sure that part is for me...

When it is all cleaned up, hacks removed and working properly, I'm a little disappointed that its over.... is that wrong???

I am the same as you all-love to get a trashed game and bring it back to life. I never feel as guilty about "learning" or perfecting a new skill, such as PF touchups/repaints or clear coating on a trashed game that would probably have been parted.

So far it has been a blast and I have not "lost" a game yet!

I like fixing games too and have bought the great majority of my collection as projects. But those are getting harder to come by around here so anymore if I want it I may be paying for a fully restored machine.

I have, but don't typically do any restoration work on machines I don't plan on keeping. Repair, shop and tune a nice player for the next owner....that's the treatment the non-keepers get.

I like to take good games and make them pretty good. And then I play them a lot.

Every game I buy needs work. Even if I buy one that's been restored, there's always some jobs they need to make them look and play as they should. I can't stand dimming or dead lamps, and I always have to go through at least the lamp holders & lamps. Nobody ever seems to fix them properly. I figured I might as well buy old dogs and go through them properly as buy a so called restored game for more money and still have to go through it. Anyway, I prefer to do my own restorations, that way , I know it's been done properly. Nowadays, most of the games I buy look like they have sat in a scrap yard for years. None work, most haven't for years, but I haven't found one yet that can't be bought back to its former glory with some effort. Doing them up is as much fun as playing them, especially when I buy a game that looks rough and, as I restore it, I realize there's a little gem hidden under all the crap. I like to get them looking real nice, but playing like they were new. And yes, it is very satisfying looking at pictures of a real piece of tat and then seeing how nice it turned out.

I'm with Nick. I have yet to buy a game that I just shoved into the line and flipped the switch.

My latest batch of 3 Joker Pokers is making me wonder if I am insane. Or partly.

I love to restore EM's more than play them, but not by a whole lot.

If a Playfield is trashed on a potential game I will pass on buying it and let someone else deal with it. Anything else I can deal with to different degrees, even some Playfield touch ups.

Even the so called Shopped out pins I buy need to be truly Shopped out by me again as one persons idea of a pin working is usually different then mine. When I am done with mine it is 100% mechanically working and every light bulb works with no dim ones.

My price points so far go from free to $1000.00 to acquire a pin I want, and I am very choosy about the titles these days. I typically like games with Kickout Holes and currently only own one without any out of 6 machines. Of course the machines have to have a fun Ruleset and Gameplay which I like to vary quite a bit from game to game I own.

When I buy a game, I may Play a game or 2 at the sellers home, but I never play it when I get it home as it has to be completely torn apart and refurbished before it ever gets played again. I have had 1 machine waiting 6 months for its turn, but it may have to wait another 6 before it is done as sometimes other machines will jump ahead of it in the restore Que depending on my interest of what I wish to play first in the near future.

Ken

i think i fall into all those, i like to restore non working machines, but will buy working ones also, would even buy someones elses restored machine if it was done well and it was a title i really wanted
here is a abra ca dabra i am saving, it was in a house fire and the guts to the head were MIA so i was able to find a replacement. i repaired and repainted the cabinet now i will put it together and shake the bugs out

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if i could, i'd buy nothing but fully shopped/refurbished, cosmetically nice games...

but i can't, so i try to convince myself that i like/enjoy working on them... and pretty much just live with whatever pf/cabinet cosmetics are there (i have zero painting skills)...

i do get great satisfaction out of "making it work"... the debugging/fixing part i like a lot, and i have always liked taking things apart and putting them back together...

but the rest of the shopping/refurb process is something i could live without... i do it, but that doesn't mean i like it... spending hours on end cleaning/polishing/etc. isn't my idea of fun... "finish work" has never been my strong suit...

I happen to like being in both camps. I love love love taking nasty games and bringing them back to life. But after I do, I usually wind up selling them. I don't like to see things I've poured a lot of time and effort into making pretty get dirty

But, that said, I have a bunch of games that I own that either I've bought NIB or close to it. There is something to be said for being able to just walk up to a game and play the heck out of it.

In terms of your last question....you can only determine the value based on the market. There is almost no accounting for getting out what you put in. I've had games that I got stupidly cheaply and sold for a lot. I've also had games I picked up for a fair price and done a lot to them, and I'd never see my investment back out. It's been said before, but you will NOT last long if you look at this as an investment!

There is definitely a disparity with the terms you mentioned. And everyone defines them differently.

Aah, that makes sense. The best thing you can do is to ask the group. Post a "price check" thread. Look up the history of a machine. The prices are all over the place, so you need to just ask around. You can even PM a few people to get their opinions.

nah, there's nothing wrong with you... everyone likes doing different things... i just have never liked doing the "make it look good" part of anything, that isn't limited to pins... i'm a tinkerer, i like the "take it apart/put it together" process (again, not limited to pins)...

for me, and only me, my defintions of the terms would be roughly the following:

"shopped" - pf has been cleaned and waxed, rubbers replaced, etc.... steppers/reels/flippers have been rebuilt... game is 100% functional... someone could take a "shopped" game home with them, plug it in, and (hopefully) play it for a long time... pf/cabinet/exterior metal cosmetics aren't addressed...

"refurbished"... the step beyond "shopped"... machine has been taken apart, the cabinet fully cleaned... mech board dissassembled and cleaned... any pf parts that show wear (flipper bats, posts bumpers/caps, plastics, drop targets whatever) have been replaced... all assemblies (dt banks, relays, etc.) have been disassembled and cleaned... exterior metal has been de-rusted and cleaned... and so on... imo, many confuse "refurbished" with "restored"...

"restored"... very few machines fall into this category... take "refurbished" and amp it up... every piece of the machine is taken apart, cleaned and polished... all wear parts replaced... any and all pf wear fixed so that the fix is not noticeable without careful inspection... cabinet imperfections either fixed (again, without being noticeable) or completely (and properly) repainted... bg must be perfect... all parts on the pf replaced... all exterior metal parts (door, legs) replaced... essentially, you bring a restored machine home, and it should be just like taking it out of a box brand new...

"restored original with imperfections" - even fewer in this category... take "restored", but find enough nos (or nice looking) parts to do it with... cabinet should not be repainted... this class of games may have some cosmetic imperfections on the cab/pf that have been left to ensure originality...

"restored original, perfect" - the rarest breed of all...

one man's opinion, anyway...

Heck, Ill throw my opinions in...

Shopped is normally defined as cleaned to some degree, but more importantly all functions working. So a shopped game has all bulbs, switches, etc checked and working. Some rubbers replaced. Normally some cleanup of the playfield, but it can vary widely.
Shop jobs can take anywhere from 2 hours to 20 hours depending on the degree of effort put into it.
Refurbished...that's honestly a term that I don't hear used much. I guess you could call it a deep shop job, going into some cosmetics?

Restored. Well that's when, generally, everything is gone through and the game is brought back to the way it came from at the factory, or even a few steps above. Every fastener is cleaned, cosmetic issues addressed up to and including playfield wear, cabinet issues, etc. Sometimes it's above and beyond to include chroming parts or clearcoating.

But...all of these terms are entirely subjective. There are guys that will shop a game, as I said, in 2 hours. There are guys that will call a machine "restored" after a dozen hours are put into it. There is Chris Hutchins who puts "restored" to a new gold standard though.

The short of it is that these terms are not all uniform. Everyone defines it differently.

I am a rare bird. I want a machine that has been repainted if it needed it. I want a machine with a repro backglass or a nice non faded very little flaking original. I want a machine I can plug and play and it would have to be as close to collector quality as possible.

I pay out the nose because of this and I don't care because in the end I have a machine that is not going to leave my collection. Like someone else said....I hate getting a machine full of crusty lamp sockets and crusty 40-50 year old #44 bulbs.

Most of the time I end up with a machine that is 90% done in my eyes. They will never be 100% when you first get them because what I like is different to the person that restored them. I always buy a new coin door, coin chute and any other PBR parts I find need replacing. I always end up replacing a few sockets and about 120 crusty, nasty #44 bulbs. I keep a few of them around because there are a few bulbs with those "wafer type" transistors that like old 44's the best.

Simple answer is I want a restored / refurbished game that is plug and play because I absolutely hate getting under the hood and messing things up worse than what they were. To me time spent fixing them could have been time playing them but I am in a small majority when it comes to these kind of views.

We should talk.....Ann Arbor is close and I just might make your day....

BTW, that Surf Champ restore looks great.

I usually just shop my games. Tear down the top side and clean the bottom, coil sleeves, rebuild mechs. I then restored a FH with new playfield and decals and it looks good but I don't play it. After all the work I don't want to see something get broken or dirty. So from now on I'm sticking to shopping. No more restoring.

This is what I'm trying to say. And you picked right up on it.

But in all seriousness, I do have a couple of games that I bought with good intentions but something else got in the way. For instance, I have a Dipsey Doodle that I bought because I couldn't find my true love, a Doodle Bug. So I bought the Dipsey Doodle and sure enough, 5 months later a nice Doodle Bug pops up.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118003252068396696045/albums/5348125781821314289

So my choices are:
1. Sell the Dipsey as is
2. Part out the Dipsey
3. Hoard the Dipsey
4. Restore the Dipsey - and then sell it, since I already have the Doodle Bug.

So, 4 probably won't happen, since I have about 45 machines in front of Dipsey.
3. is ongoing
2. would make me the most money but destroy my pinball Karma and I would spend my afterlife playing Chicago Coin multiplayer EMs.
1. Seems like the best option

Most of the games I have bought are completely dead. A few have had battery corrosion. All were in need of some sort of attention. I go through them well in the beginning, but not what I would call "restoration". They get most of the attention in the electronics, making everything work right, re-pin connectors etc. is the focus. Getting the game running and running correctly is priority one. Then comes the cosmetics, rubber, cleaning, touch up, etc...

I'd call it "buy to return to service, to play"

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Slow down there. Batteries? Re-Pin connectors - Jones plugs? You are speaking a language I don't understand!!!

Oops didn't see this was an em thread. O well this still holds true.

I would like to try and give restoration a shot. But I am in the prime of professional and family life. This gives me little time. I buy nib or collector quality games because when I do have time I want the games to work and look nice for my friends and family.
In the future when I have more time I am sure thinks will change.

That's a nice Doodle Bug. That game is a lot of fun. You have good taste.

Argh! I missed the EM thread too. But I do have an EM shuffle bowler, and still holds true. Getting the thing playing well is always #1.

A decent gateway drug to be sure.

@boilerman;
Those restorations are the best!! Cleaning/shopping a game is one thing, bringing back a total pile is another.

The nice thing about such a POS is that all the "rules" are off. If the cabinet is already hosed, a re-paint enhances it. Nice work.

I like cleaning dirty games and discovering a gem under all the dirt.
I like fixing games when I'm successful, and I hate it when I'm not.
I like playing games until I don't like playing them anymore - usually at least a few years.

Welcome to the hobby!

Actually it would be worse, you will just get stuck playing only CC Single Players in pinball hell. Only by repenting could you find yourself playing the Chicago Coin Multiplayers such as Casino and Gun Smoke, makes it more like pinball purgatory.

Ken

Forgive me, Father Neyens, for I have had evil thoughts.

I'm the guy who buys to play... and then plays, and plays and plays until they need restoration, you're welcome.

I enjoy both. I like to turn dumpster junk into something nice. If I bought one that needed no work at all then I'd be fixing stuff that isn't broke.

Thank you. Doodle Bug was a nostalgia game for me. I played this game at McLelends 5 and 10 when it was brand new. Prior to that, they had some sort of sub/periscope game and a dime/play Wedgehead that for the life of me I can't remember the name of. Then, when I was about 9 years old, I hopped off my Schwinn Typhoon and saw this!! But the problem was, it was 2 plays for a quarter and the other game was only 10 cents/game, so I only played Doodle Bug if I was feeling a little flush, having just mowed a lawn or something. Looking back, I was in the middle of AAB land in Wisconsin, so I wonder why we didn't have a "Love Bug" instead? I know the Doodle Bug is "convertible" to AAB, which makes we wonder why have a Love Bug at all? I am quite positive it was a Doodle Bug though and I think I even remember winning a free game or two on it. Perhaps the law in NE Wisconsin had better things to do, like chasing down kids lighting off fireworks? or people tearing mattress tags off?

Anyway, my particular machine had been brought to a house a bit NW of Lansing MI, for a New Years Eve party about 30 years ago and left there in the basement by the Uncle of the family. The mom of the house was going to throw it out but the daughter (now all grown up since she had carved her name and a heart on the side of the backbox), thought it would be worth some money, so she put it on Mr. Pinball. I was thrilled to get it. I left her carving in since it was small and IMO a part of the history of this fun game.

I am a Doodle Bug fan also,
and bought 2 Dipsy Doodles before i found a Doodle Bug.
Have never been able to get the bug to "doodle" when the points were worth
10,000 per "doodle".
How about you?

I consider myself lucky living in NJ where bumping into beater/end of life pins for fair prices seems to be somewhat easy to come by. I'm on my 4th restore job right now, this time I'm doing my first real playfield restoration.

I love to fix em and play em. Ill let one go every now and then to make room for something new to fix

--Jeff

one guess... back in the day, there were boatloads of arcades on boardwalks, piers, etc....

Why is that your perception? I agree with ccotenj on the pins all over the boardwalks & arcades back in the day, but right now there are huge collections in places out west like the Pacific pinball museum, HoF in vegas, and isn't Clay's new museum in your neck of the woods?

Probably 4 times, dating back to 1972. Once "back in the day" and 2-3 times on my machine. I think it has a lot to do with how often you play it. Play enough balls and you will get a six sigma outlier. Every time but once, the 10K doodle resulted in an immediate drain. Once I kept it up for a bit and of course the machine promptly rolled over, then lit the "over the top" light. After that, it was sort of like - "anybody keeping track of how many times this thing is rolling over?"

Collectors in the midwest and east coast have basement and inclimate weather. Basements = more room for games. When I lived in Ohio growing up I saw more arcades and neighbors with 70's EMs in their house (early 80's) Like ccontj said...There were tons or arcades, boardwalk arcades. There are more populated cities east of the Mississippi. When I lived in California I was outdoors everyday and there is more to do outdoors. It seems that most of the EMs and EM collectors live in Ohio,Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York. 80% of the time I see an EM I want, it is in one of those states.