(Topic ID: 109186)

WCS94 - ball STILL not spinning

By nicoga3000

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Coyote
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#1 9 years ago

E: So rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd just ask here.

Everything was working great yesterday. Today, I turned on my game, started playing, and noticed that the ball wasn't spinning anymore. Goalie works fine, flippers work fine, etc etc. I went into the solenoid test, and the ball doesn't spin there, either.

So I checked the wires and everything was good on the ball. Reseated the connection on the Motor board. Checked the connections on the Power Driver Board...Everything is good.

Any idea what else I can check to see what's up?

==============

So I recently reassembled my WCS94 that I've been working on. Prior to taking everything apart, the game was playable, albeit with some issues. Now that everything is back together, I am running into some weird issues. I sort of expected this, but I don't really know where to begin.

As some of the issues are super hard to explain, I decided to shoot a quick video before work this morning. If you have 8 minutes and a desire to help a newbie out, please check the video out and see if you can't weigh in on what's going on!

For the sake of completeness, I'll do my best to at least list the basic issues I'm running into. The video obviously shows everything much better than I could type.

1) The coin door does a bunch of weird things. Two of the buttons register twice per push. Also, the way a Stern game works is that when you open the door, the game "knows". In the case of my WCS, it doesn't really know unless I press the bottom door switch (which I think is the memory protect switch) and hit Enter. You can see what I mean in the video - this one is hard to explain. Also, the locking mech is funky.

2) Some of inserts are out. The only connector not hooked up is the GI connector (J121 I think?). The only reason that's the case is because I am still waiting for my tool to arrive to put the pins on the wires. I can't imagine this would be related to the random inserts not working. The ones I remember not working (that I'm pretty sure are NOT tied to GI) are: 2 of the cities, the kickout holes, the start button, and the pops (these MAY be GI).

3) None of the solenoids work. I'm sure they're OK as all of them worked prior to taking things apart. Nothing has been re-wired wrong (I took EXTRA care to label everything very carefully). Could be a fuse? Or a short? Or...I have no idea.

4) A few switches appear to be out. The kickback switch doesn't work, which would explain why that feature wasn't working before. and the ball lock switch near the post is out, which would explain why the ball wouldn't lock. The left kickout hole switch doesn't work, which explains why the ball never kicked out BUT popped during ball search. Could be a few more, but none that I was able to find in my cursory review.

5) The trough opto is a special kind of frustrating. If I turn the game on with 5 balls (and get the boot right), the game tells me there's an error and I have to remove a ball and reboot. If I do this and get to the game start portion, the game won't recognize the start button unless the 5th ball is placed back into the trough. I am a bit lost on this one.

Again, if you have time to watch the video, it would be MUCH more explanatory as some of the issues are hard to put into words. If you have ANY thoughts on where I could begin, I'd appreciate it!

The video is here:

#2 9 years ago

Okay, here's my take on it -
(0) - The comment about 'this is all it does until enter is pressed' upon bootup without any batteries - that is completely normal.

Okay, numbering my answers is pointless, since you didn't follow the order of the points in your video.

Lights - First, the ramp sign lights and striker are not GI, those are controlled. So, I recommend putting in lamps there to make sure they work, and aren't out like the two City lights. On the two City lights - if you take an LED from a working insert and put it in one of the non-working ones (Chicago, DC), does it work? (i.e. Does the problem follow the LED or stay with the socket?) If the problem stays with the insert/socket, find a common denominator - same row or column? Likely they're on the same row or column. (I don't have a manual in front of me to verify.) Edit: Because again, you jumped around - the Start button (and Extra Ball button, if WCS has one? I think it does?) are controlled lamps as well.

Coin Door - Put the machine into switch test, and see what you get when you press the down button. You may just have a bad switch, OR, it may be shorted/crossed with another switch. Edit: Since you later specify there's no lever for the coin door, that's your problem. Clocing the coin door won't help you in this case. If the white cherry switch is a manual locking type, you can pull the plunger out to make it activate, which should give your coils power. If it's only a momentary type, you'll need to manually connect the wires together, or get one of the yellow locking levers for the switch.

Solenoid Test - Close the coin door. WCS had a 50v interlock that disabled high voltage when the door was open.

Switches - Like the lamps, find a common demoninator - same switch row/column?

Existing Test Mode - What you saw is normal, because the NVRAM was reset, because you have no batteries. Without batteries, you're forced to go into Test mode. When exiting, the game resets and reboot. Normally, (with good NVRAM settings - ie Batteries) it would not reboot like that.

Game Startup - The game's reporting back 12V for some reason, so it's not seeing balls in the trough. THis is probably your biggest issue - go into Switch Levels, and note all the switches it THINKS are 'activated'. Likely, you either have a bad opto driver board (possibly, though unlikely since I saw some active switches in your switch table), or the trough optos aren't connected up right. MANY GAMES will eventually start after it tries to 'locate balls', so just because after several Start presses it starts doesn't mean it was because you added the 5th ball. (Also note - the game must have ALL balls accounted for. I can't remember if WCS is 5 or 4 balls off-hand.) Edit: Since your goalie opto didn't register either, your opto board may not be connected up right.

Game Play - Your game's playing normally, save for your coils.

Coin Door Lock - Get a new one. You're missing a small specially-shaped (square) washer to stop motion.

Hope this helps, or at least gives you something to mess with.

-M.

#3 9 years ago

Your missing the yellow bracket to engage the high voltage when you close the coin door. The machine thinks the coin door is open so no high voltage will work / flippers, ball eject, etc. many of your issues will be resolved once you can engage the high voltage.

#4 9 years ago

Sorry my video was all out of order. I actually had a more structured one before my phone started ringing (which cut off my recording and forced me to restart, ha).

Lights: I have some new LEDs coming - I ordered the wrong ones from Cointaker and am in the process of doing an exchange. I could pop some frosted whites for the sake of testing, though. I'll check LEDs later to see where that gets me with the inserts. I have a hard time believing I got 2 bad fresh Cointaker bulbs, but anything is possible.

Coin door: Not sure what you mean regarding the manual vs momentary switch. Blurry picture I found online, but this is what mine looks like:

interlock2.jpginterlock2.jpg

Mine is wired up, though. Is it possible to wire it wrong (the colors are in the right spot, but there are two WHT-RED and two BLK-YEL for this...I don't know how to distinguish between them so I just put them on their respective prong per the manual).

Solenoid test: My game doesn't have the bracket that presses against the interlock and memory switch with the door closed. May be why the two were not wired up when I got it. Can I buy one/make one? Not sure what to put together here. I will hold the switch in and run the test over lunch, though.

Switches: I would venture to say they are just bad. Is there a way to test switches outside of the game? Like, is there any sort of tool to determine if they are good before I go ahead and buy new ones?

Existing test mode: I'll put batteries in. No reason not to at this point.

Opto stuff: The goalie was working pre-breakdown, but the trough was not. I will delve into this a bit more after I look at the switch levels. As you said, this is what I think is my biggest issue. I'm not 100% how to go about fixing this one. I'll start with the others first.

Coin door lock: I'll order one now, ha.

Thanks for your really detailed feedback! This definitely gives me a starting point. I'll report back later and see what steps I should take next.

Quoted from BillP:

Your missing the yellow bracket to engage the high voltage when you close the coin door. The machine thinks the coin door is open so no high voltage will work / flippers, ball eject, etc. many of your issues will be resolved once you can engage the high voltage.

Yeah, I actually have that yellow bracket. I wasn't sure how it went on. I know Stern's have a bracket hooked up to the door that presses the switches in when the door is closed. Is that a thing on these 90's Bally games?

#5 9 years ago

J120 and j121 are for most the lights on the playfield and backbox. 6.3 v so wait to get j121 plugged in to work on the lights. Did you in your other thread mention something about battery acid damage. Can't remember if that was your post or someone else's?

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from legotech1:

J120 and j121 are for most the lights on the playfield and backbox. 6.3 v so wait to get j121 plugged in to work on the lights. Did you in your other thread mention something about battery acid damage. Can't remember if that was your post or someone else's?

Nope, no acid damage. Thankfully my boards (minus the GI connector) were in good shape. I cleaned the battery holder up and made sure everything was good on it.

#7 9 years ago

Ok watched video the leds that are out in the same string prob do not dave the leeds touching there connector in the slot. Straiten the legs out to make sure they touch. Put batteries in to fix the startup problem. Do the solenoid's fire in test mode when you press in the two kill switches.

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

Sorry my video was all out of order. I actually had a more structured one before my phone started ringing (which cut off my recording and forced me to restart, ha).
Lights: I have some new LEDs coming - I ordered the wrong ones from Cointaker and am in the process of doing an exchange. I could pop some frosted whites for the sake of testing, though. I'll check LEDs later to see where that gets me with the inserts. I have a hard time believing I got 2 bad fresh Cointaker bulbs, but anything is possible.

It's possible, I had three bad ones in an order of 10 before. (However, they're great people, and replaced them almost immediately.) However - no need to put new bulbs in - simply pop out two known working ones, and put them in the non-working PDB holes. When you go back into All Lamps test, see if the previously non-working ones now work.

And no problem about the being out of order, just thought it was amusing, I'd start typing something up, and then you'd jump back to it and give another bit of info, which then I'd have to go up and edit what I typed before.

Quoted from nicoga3000:

Coin door: Not sure what you mean regarding the manual vs momentary switch. Blurry picture I found online, but this is what mine looks like:

Mine is wired up, though. Is it possible to wire it wrong (the colors are in the right spot, but there are two WHT-RED and two BLK-YEL for this...I don't know how to distinguish between them so I just put them on their respective prong per the manual).

Solenoid test: My game doesn't have the bracket that presses against the interlock and memory switch with the door closed. May be why the two were not wired up when I got it. Can I buy one/make one? Not sure what to put together here. I will hold the switch in and run the test over lunch, though.

Yeah, I actually have that yellow bracket. I wasn't sure how it went on. I know Stern's have a bracket hooked up to the door that presses the switches in when the door is closed. Is that a thing on these 90's Bally games?

Okay, yes. First, and VERY IMPORTANT -
Double and triple check your wiring.
One switch (the bottom switch) goes to the MPU board, to tell the CPU that your door's open or closed.
The top switch is a cut-out for your +50V to the coils.

If you have them wired wrong, you could send +50V to your MPU, frying it!

The coin door should have a lever that presses BOTH of those in when closed. The bottom one is a simple momentary switch. The top one (the coil cut-out) has an 'on' position - grab the end of the white plunger and pull it out. You'll feel it snap and catch. Once like this, then, your coils and flashers will work!

The yellow tool / bracket isn't NORMALLY needed - it's for the earlier coil cutout switches that didn't have a manual 'on' position. (You'd push in the monentary switch, and slide this down over it, to hold the switch in.) In your case, however, since your coin door dosen't have the lever to push these in when it's closed, you COULD use the yellow bracket to hold it in while the door's closed. Unsure, the door may get in the way. The yellow bracket and manual pull-on switches are like that so that a tech could work on and test the game with coils/flashers active. Before closing the door, the tech would take the yellow bracket off. (As the lever on the door would then close the switch.)

If you find a welder, he may be able to weld on a lever for you - if not, you could just get a new coin door.

Quoted from nicoga3000:

Switches: I would venture to say they are just bad. Is there a way to test switches outside of the game? Like, is there any sort of tool to determine if they are good before I go ahead and buy new ones?

There may be, but.. I couldn't tell you to be sure. Usually I'll just grab a wire and manually connect the row/column wires together at the switch. If you get a register, then the wiring's good, switch is bad. If you don't get anything, then one of the wires is cut, and the row/col signal is not getting down there. (This is where your Switch Row / Column chart comes in handy. Take one end of your testing wire and attach it to the COL lead at the switch. Then find ANOTHER switch on the same ROW and connect the lead. If your switch activates, then the ROW wire is bad. If not, do the opposite for the COL wire on the switch.) Switches take a lot of abuse - I think in my years of maintaing 90's games in arcades, I only had maybr 3 or 4 switches themselves die. 99% of the time it was a broken wire/solder connection.

Quoted from nicoga3000:

Opto stuff: The goalie was working pre-breakdown, but the trough was not. I will delve into this a bit more after I look at the switch levels. As you said, this is what I think is my biggest issue. I'm not 100% how to go about fixing this one. I'll start with the others first.

This one is most puzzling to me. I haven't had a game with trough optos in a while, but I know the 7- and 10- opto boards run off of +12V. On my TZ, the Clock and Gumball motor ALSO run off of +12V. (So if WCS is like TZ, then the Goalie and Soccerball run off of +12V.. And they're working.)

So, check your manual / schematics. If I'm correct and they are off of +12V, then likely somewhere along the route the 12v line got cut.

Quoted from nicoga3000:

Thanks for your really detailed feedback! This definitely gives me a starting point. I'll report back later and see what steps I should take next.

Good luck! WCS is a favorite game of mine, and I'll be adding one to my collection in the next year or so.

#9 9 years ago

Test switches with a multimeter. One setting should be open (infinite resistance, no continuity) and the other setting should be closed (no resistance, continuity)

#10 9 years ago

Currently out, but does anyone am have dimensions for that coin door lever that holds the switches closed? I work in an office with a fab shop. Want to get them to weld me a bracket, haha.

#11 9 years ago

If the solenoids still don't work after fixing the coin door so it pushes in the white switches which is unlikely, check whether your F112 Solenoid Secondary fuse is blown.

#12 9 years ago

Lot of really great information here, thank you guys. Hoping I can get most of the issues sorted out in the next few days. The trough one is going to puzzle me, but I'll focus on that last.

Quoted from Coyote:

There may be, but.. I couldn't tell you to be sure. Usually I'll just grab a wire and manually connect the row/column wires together at the switch. If you get a register, then the wiring's good, switch is bad. If you don't get anything, then one of the wires is cut, and the row/col signal is not getting down there. (This is where your Switch Row / Column chart comes in handy. Take one end of your testing wire and attach it to the COL lead at the switch. Then find ANOTHER switch on the same ROW and connect the lead. If your switch activates, then the ROW wire is bad. If not, do the opposite for the COL wire on the switch.) Switches take a lot of abuse - I think in my years of maintaing 90's games in arcades, I only had maybr 3 or 4 switches themselves die. 99% of the time it was a broken wire/solder connection.

You did an awesome job describing this, but as a complete newbie to this, I have to ask...

When you say to grab a wire, do you literally mean any wire I have lying around? I might not really understand what you're getting at. It SOUNDS like it's a super quick and simple way to verify a switch is working or not, but I want to ask the basic questions now before I ruin something, ha.

Quoted from Pacer:

Test switches with a multimeter. One setting should be open (infinite resistance, no continuity) and the other setting should be closed (no resistance, continuity)

I particularly like this idea. Game can be turned off, yes?

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

When you say to grab a wire, do you literally mean any wire I have lying around?

I particularly like this idea. Game can be turned off, yes?

Re: grab a wire.. yes, preferably insulated... hold the insulation ... I'd prefer to do it with a wire that has aligator clips... perhaps use one of the leads to your multimeter. If you aligator clip both lugs of the switch to connect them, and the switch then registers as on, that would tell you that your wiring is good. If you do it without aligator clips, you'll likely need to do it with the game on to hold the wire in place. Enter switch levels, make the connection, and listen for the "bing" indicating the game sees a switch changing states.

Re: using a multimeter, yes the game can be turned off.

#14 9 years ago

What Pacer said. He summed it up better than I did.

I'll get a pic of the part on the coin door in a little

Edit: Here you go. As you can see, it was simply screwed onto my coin door..
IMG_20141111_164117.jpgIMG_20141111_164117.jpg
IMG_20141111_164234.jpgIMG_20141111_164234.jpg

#15 9 years ago

OK update!

For the LEDs, the contacts just weren't tight enough. I fixed the inserts. The kickout holes and start button still don't light, but I think the kickout holes are tied to J121 (which isn't working yet). Start button should be, so I'm going to try and new bulb.

The opto problem may have been solved...From pictures alone, I think I have found the problem:

Here's the page for the LED board from the manual.

20141111_175348.jpg20141111_175348.jpg

Verifying that the top board here is the LED board (notice the word LED printed on it).

20141111_175405.jpg20141111_175405.jpg

This is how the board was wired.

IMG_20141003_202020.jpgIMG_20141003_202020.jpg

It looks like the LED and IR boards are wired backwards. I THINK that's the problem. The bigger issue is that I don't think I can just plug one into the other. I may have to rewire these. Can someone point me in the right direction as to what I would need to order? Unless I'm crazy and that's not the problem (or if there's a way to test it before I go through the work).

I am trying to test switches. Here's the kickback switch in question (not pictured are the kickout and lock switch).

20141111_180619.jpg20141111_180619.jpg

Turn this guy to 200 ohms and put the posts on...?

20141111_181311.jpg20141111_181311.jpg

I know these are dumb questions, but I am having trouble figuring this one out. Same can be said for the other switches that are acting up. I want to figure out where these issues are before I have to place an order for parts.

Solenoids worked when I put the yellow bracket over the interlock to keep the high voltage on. My flippers kept adjusting until they were more and more vertical. I tightened the nut on the side to clamp the shaft down more. Hopefully that helps.

Now for an issue I'm just discovering!

Goals don't register. Instead, shots made into the goal award striker stuff. When I hit the striker hole, the ball just kicks up. Any thoughts?

#16 9 years ago

For the multimeter, you can set it to any ohm setting.
Connect the leads up to the two lugs of the switch that has the wires attached to it. When the switch is closed (not actuated) you should get infinite ohms. When the switch is closed (pressed in, ball on it, etc), you should get 0 ohms. (Or extremely close to 0.)

This tests the diode (the black w/ white banded piece) and the switch.

If you do not get 0 ohms, keep the lead on the green wire, and move the lead from the white wire to the other switch lug, where the other end of the diode is connected.

#17 9 years ago

OK, here's the results of that individual switch. From the picture above, 1 will be the lug with only the diode, 2 will be the lug with the green wire (which I removed for the test), and 3 will be the lug with the white/green wire on it. I'm assuming infinite means 1 on my multimeter.

Switch open:
1-2: infinite
1-3: varied from ~10ohm - 25ohm
2-3: infinite

Switch closed:
1-2: 0
1-3: 0
2-3: infinite

The 1-3 open was a bit confusing. Could have been me having a bad reading, or maybe that's how it works? I ran another switch test to verify my thoughts, and it does indeed not register.

#18 9 years ago

That's all fine.

For the record -
The terminal with the Diode and White isn't technically used. It's simply a tie-point to connect the white wire to the diode.

In your case, #1 is Common, #2 is NO, and #3 is NC. With the switch open, you should have gotten 0ohm between 1-3, and infinite when the switch is closed. (Without getting into electronic engineering, you would have gotten some other readings depending on which lead (red or black) was on which switch terminal, since the diode lets current through in one direction, not in the other.)

However, since we don't care about the NC terminal, all we care about is 1 to 2, the Normally Open connections. So, this means that your switch is working fine.

#19 9 years ago

Thanks for your help. So that means that something else is wrong to cause that switch not to register during game play or switch test? How do you go about finding and diagnosing that? Also, I can test all the bad switches in the same process as above to determine if the switch is good, yes?

#20 9 years ago

Tried to test the ball lock switch and was only getting readings when testing the diodes only. It looks like the lugs are dirty or even rusty? So unless I'm testing that switch wrong, I think it's bad. The kickback switch sounds like it's good based off of my other post, but I tried and tried and tried to figure it out last night but couldn't.

Also, I tried plugging the rough cables into the opposite boards and had no response. I imagine it could have been because it wasn't making full contact, though.

#21 9 years ago

I had a wcs94 and I had a problem with the switches after doing a playfield tear down. It turned out to be a switch matrix problem which is associated with the cpu. I apparently shorted something. Perhaps you did the same thing. I can't recall which switches it affected but it was about 5 of them

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

Tried to test the ball lock switch and was only getting readings when testing the diodes only. It looks like the lugs are dirty or even rusty? So unless I'm testing that switch wrong, I think it's bad. The kickback switch sounds like it's good based off of my other post, but I tried and tried and tried to figure it out last night but couldn't.
Also, I tried plugging the rough cables into the opposite boards and had no response. I imagine it could have been because it wasn't making full contact, though.

The trough looks good, and correct from your pic - for this, go into 'Switch Levels' with all balls out of the trough, and see which Optos in the trough give you active (A) flags.

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from Don44:

I had a wcs94 and I had a problem with the switches after doing a playfield tear down. It turned out to be a switch matrix problem which is associated with the cpu. I apparently shorted something. Perhaps you did the same thing. I can't recall which switches it affected but it was about 5 of them

The only issue that popped up after reassembly has been the goals not registering. Everything else was there when I started. That said, I'll keep an eye on it.

Quoted from Coyote:

The trough looks good, and correct from your pic - for this, go into 'Switch Levels' with all balls out of the trough, and see which Optos in the trough give you active (A) flags.

Wait, so it IS wired right? The manual shows all the orange wires leading into the LED board. The way it's hooked up, the gray wires are leading into it.

#24 9 years ago

There are two LED boards... a sender board and a receiver board.

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from Pacer:

There are two LED boards... a sender board and a receiver board.

My understanding of the manual is that the one (part A-18617 with the words LED printed onto the board) is the sender and is listed as having the orange leads. The other board (A-18618) has the receivers and is listed as having the gray leads.

Page 2-19 shows this:

Assembly.JPGAssembly.JPG

Item 15 is the board with LED printed on it per the picture above. And that part, according to this picture, is wired incorrectly on my game?

Manual leads.JPGManual leads.JPG

This is what mine looks like from above:

Wired wrong.jpgWired wrong.jpg

So if I'm wrong, please tell me why. Mind you, I'm new to this and just trying to make sure I am not missing something. Really, it could be as simple as, "It doesn't matter which is plugged into which". If that's the case, awesome! But help me not go crazy!

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from Pacer:

There are two LED boards... a sender board and a receiver board.

Quoted from nicoga3000:

Wait, so it IS wired right? The manual shows all the orange wires leading into the LED board. The way it's hooked up, the gray wires are leading into it.

They're *technically* not all LEDs, but they may be all LABELED as LEDs on the board. (I'm not sure..) However, the manual may be wrong, too - the PDF copy I have (I think, from IPDB? Not sure?) is horriffically wrong on the both board's schematic, at least with the labels. Oy.

Edit: Both board pinouts are wrong in my copy of the manual. Wow.

Likely they're wired up fine - since the game was recognizing the 5th ball added to it, that means that LED6 / Q6 were working. Which means the wiring was correct.

#27 9 years ago

And without a trough to check against, I can't help more than that. (However, considering the error in my manual, I wouldn't be surprised if other points - like wire colors / plug connections are wrong in the manual as well.)

Edit 2: Yeah, I'm betting the manual is wrong. Since your receiver board has a key in #2 pin, and the manual says the sender board has the key in #2 pin.

#28 9 years ago

I see what you are saying.. Reading that first spec page, your green board is the A-18617. The second page you provided says that the A-18617 gets the orange wire set. They may be wrong in your game.

Pull the connectors... see which boards are missing which pins (to key it). The way the wires are laying, it looks correct (wire memory)... but I see what you mean about the spec.

#29 9 years ago

This is the way the game was wired, so that's why I'm not sure if it's actually wrong or what, haha.

The green board is keyed at position 2 (on a 9-pin setup). The other board (blue I think) is keyed at position 8 (on a 9-pin setup). So of course, they are pinned in the "same spot" relative to the ends. If it were wired wrong, I would think that it wouldn't work at all though, no?

Also, what I learned over lunch today!

The five balls each open a switch. I will probably have to take a video of this specific issue to see if anyone can help me make sense of it. It's the one issue that I am absolutely blown away by. The switches are annoying but manageable I think. The trough opto is

#30 9 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

The trough opto is

Do all the leds light up when viewed through a camera? If not, there is a broken led or resistor associated with that led. If that is the case, you need to fix that board or order a new one. One led out on a trough can really mess up game play. Great lakes modular is a great source for trough boards.

#31 9 years ago

Yeah, the LEDs appear to be good when viewed through a digital camera. I'm going to try cleaning them this weekend.

Also discovered that my goalie opto had a wire come off. So that's easy to fix.

GI all works now (J121 is back in service).

Only issues to fix are the trough opto (which MAY be just a dirty opto, or may be something else), and the few switches that aren't working.

#32 9 years ago

Here's an update if anyone can help:

Got the goalie fixed!

So here's my latest update on the issues.

Booting the game with 5 balls in the trough gives me the following error:

Opto trough bad. Check connectors, wires, and 12V supply.

Manually pulling the 5th ball out (by rolling it back and picking it up out of the drain) causes the game to eject the remaining 4 balls (and you can hear it pop for the 5th one, even though it's not there).

Now I'm in switch test. The switches that are out:

26, 36, 56, 76, 86

So all of those are in the same row. However, 16 works.

Back to the trough opto!

With the balls in, 31-35 all register. As I said, 36 never registers. There looks to be an opto right above switch 31 (if I look into the trough from the right side where the ball kicks out), but it doesn't register. I'm not sure if it's used for anything? I would think it's for a ball jam, but I can't find it on the switch matrix and I can't get it to register. So I'm not sure what's up there.

Now, with 5 balls in the trough, I exit switch test. Cannot hit the start button. Removing the 5th ball from the back end causes the balls to eject one at a time again. Putting 4 balls back in and hitting start initiates a ball search (and the game WILL NOT start). I have to put the 5th ball back in, at which point I can hit start and begin play.

So I'm still lost. The issues are finally narrowed down, but I can't figure them out.

#33 9 years ago

Now comes the fun part. Find the White/Blue wire, where it reaches the playfield. This is your Switch Row #6 wire

Looking at the switches, it should reach #16 - Striker #3 High first. Check the connections. Somewhere between switch #16 and the next switch in the line (NOT necessarily #26), the wire's cut or broke off a solder joint / switch terminal.

Since #36 is Trough Stack, I wouldn't worry about any trough issues until you get those switches fixed, first.

#34 9 years ago

Alright, found a disconnected wire! Resoldered and now the game plays as it should (well, 99%).

It looks like I have two small issues left:

1) The spinner switch works, however when I hit the spinner, it doesn't always award me points. I'm assuming it should do something? The switch behind the spinner works great (and often gives me my reward), but I would think that hitting the spinner should give me something. Could just be that I need to adjust something?

2) When I boot the game, I still have a credit dot. I'm assuming it's because of a test report message that says, "Check switch F8 U.L. Flipper But." According to the manual, it looks like F8 isn't used? Any idea what this is about?

Functioning as intended questions:

1) Do you ever stack 2 balls behind the lock post? Everytime I get the first ball locked, I just need to hit final draw to start. I assumed there was a reason to the second switch (as in, a second ball). Just curious.

2) When I use the right flipper to change the BUY and TICKET lanes up top, it doesn't always switch. If I tap the flipper, it flips but doesn't change the lane. I have to do a full press. Is that just a leaf adjustment?

Thanks!

#35 9 years ago

Off the top of my head, I can only answer your third question. Two locks only happen during multi-player games. Even the, the second lock is very short lived and you get a kickout from there rather than from the trough.

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from Pacer:

Off the top of my head, I can only answer your third question. Two locks only happen during multi-player games. Even the, the second lock is very short lived and you get a kickout from there rather than from the trough.

Thanks - I almost thought that it was multiplayer specific. Good to know that it's working as intended!

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

1) The spinner switch works, however when I hit the spinner, it doesn't always award me points. I'm assuming it should do something? The switch behind the spinner works great (and often gives me my reward), but I would think that hitting the spinner should give me something. Could just be that I need to adjust something?

The spinner should always give you points. ...It may not award you anything else (like a skill, city, etc.), but as it spins, it should raise your score. Likely your leaf switch just needs to be adjusted.

Quoted from nicoga3000:

2) When I boot the game, I still have a credit dot. I'm assuming it's because of a test report message that says, "Check switch F8 U.L. Flipper But." According to the manual, it looks like F8 isn't used? Any idea what this is about?

That's really odd. It COULD just be a bug in your software version - what game rev are you running? Past that, I wouldn't worry about it.

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

The spinner should always give you points. ...It may not award you anything else (like a skill, city, etc.), but as it spins, it should raise your score. Likely your leaf switch just needs to be adjusted.

That's really odd. It COULD just be a bug in your software version - what game rev are you running? Past that, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks - that's sort of what I thought. The switch appears to be OK, but I think the lead from the spinner almost seems too long. I'm going to toy with it tonight.

As for the F8 issue, I received some info that it could just be dirty. I'm running REV LA-2. Is there a more recent version I can update to?

#39 9 years ago

According to John Wart's site, Ver. LX-2 is the latest.

http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/wpc.html

For the Upper Left flipper button error, you may have a bad or dirty flipper opto. You can get this message even if there is no upper flipper in the game, as the opto is used for lane change at the top. I had this same problem on a BSD and replacing the small flipper opto board fixed it.

#40 9 years ago

LX-2 is the same as LA-2... just specific to the US.

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

According to John Wart's site, Ver. LX-2 is the latest.
http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/wpc.html
For the Upper Left flipper button error, you may have a bad or dirty flipper opto. You can get this message even if there is no upper flipper in the game, as the opto is used for lane change at the top. I had this same problem on a BSD and replacing the small flipper opto board fixed it.

Huh, that's good to know - I hadn't realized that.

Does the switch still show status (active/inactive) in switch tests, then?

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

According to John Wart's site, Ver. LX-2 is the latest.
http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/wpc.html
For the Upper Left flipper button error, you may have a bad or dirty flipper opto. You can get this message even if there is no upper flipper in the game, as the opto is used for lane change at the top. I had this same problem on a BSD and replacing the small flipper opto board fixed it.

Hmm...Going to have to test out the lane change situation.

Thanks for this information! Very informative!

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Huh, that's good to know - I hadn't realized that.
Does the switch still show status (active/inactive) in switch tests, then?

Yes, I believe it does.

#44 9 years ago

Hmm...Cleaned the optos on both flippers. Both change the lane up top fine. Still getting the error. At this point, I'm not sure if I should even worry about it.

Fixed my issue with the spinner by simply bending the leaf out a bit as per someone's suggestion. Works as intended!

#45 9 years ago

So rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd just ask here.

Everything was working great yesterday. Today, I turned on my game, started playing, and noticed that the ball wasn't spinning anymore. Goalie works fine, flippers work fine, etc etc. I went into the solenoid test, and the ball doesn't spin there, either.

So I checked the wires and everything was good on the ball. Reseated the connection on the Motor board. Checked the connections on the Power Driver Board...Everything is good.

Any idea what else I can check to see what's up?

#46 9 years ago

Well, first thing to do would be to check the voltage AT the motor while it's supposed to be spinning.

You can GENTLY try turning the ball - but don't force it. Don't want to damage the transmission gears in case something's locked up!

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Well, first thing to do would be to check the voltage AT the motor while it's supposed to be spinning.
You can GENTLY try turning the ball - but don't force it. Don't want to damage the transmission gears in case something's locked up!

So how would I check that without damaging anything? Turn the solenoid test on, set the meter to DCV (20 since it's supposed to get 20V), and touch the tips to the wires?

#48 9 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

So how would I check that without damaging anything? Turn the solenoid test on, set the meter to DCV (20 since it's supposed to get 20V), and touch the tips to the wires?

Yup!

Also, I just saw your posts about a new soccer ball - did it stop working once you put the new ball on? Or is this separate from that?

#49 9 years ago

Is this game fixed yet?

#50 9 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Yup!
Also, I just saw your posts about a new soccer ball - did it stop working once you put the new ball on? Or is this separate from that?

Nah, it's been working since putting the game back together WITH the new ball. I'll test it here shortly.

Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Is this game fixed yet?

It was! Until this issue popped up...

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