(Topic ID: 62965)

Bumper sells Jacks Prototype Game Not Owned By Them


By Ballypinball

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by chad123
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-5
#1 6 years ago

If you thought it couldn't get any worse, It Has.

For the past few weeks Jack has been trying to pickup his Sample Prototype WOZ, only to find they sold it.

The matter is now in the hands of Victoria Police Fraud Squad.

How low are these people.

#2 6 years ago

Who? Bumper, Jack, or Victoria Police Fraud squad?

#3 6 years ago

I was worried there weren't enough bumper net threads.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

I was worried there weren't enough bumper net threads.

They're trying to keep pace with Star Trek...and failing.

#6 6 years ago

Where is Noodlebox???

I can hear the phone ringing from Mensa?

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Where is Noodlebox???
I can hear the phone ringing from Mensa?

They're calling to get their membership card back.

rd.

#8 6 years ago

So anyone casting and getting a film crew this sounds like daytime TV.

"as the WOZ turns" ??

-3
#9 6 years ago

This thread contains false information above. Gillard has needlessly bothered the Police.

Gillard has been used by Jack. Gillard does not seem to be aware that he is being played.

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:07:56 -0400
From: Jersey Jack Pinball <Jack@JerseyJackPinball.XXX>
To: Robert Farrell <XXXXXXXXX>

Hi Rob.....OK

One date change, we are at a show until 10/16 so we can airfreight the first game to you leaving on 10/17

If you write any update, please pass it by me so I'm on the same page. Thanks.

Best Regards,

Jack Guarnieri

(732) 433-4333

On Sep 16, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Robert Farrell <robert@XXXXXXXXXXXX> wrote:
Hi Jack-

talked with the guys this morning and we are all agreed on the plan that we outlined.
1. You get one machine ready for air ship Oct 15th-we will pay to ship it and process you 50k payment on its arrival.
2. Nov 1 you advise how many machines will be ready for 11/13 container we process payment for all those machines then.
3. 11/13 games loaded and moving we process another 50k payment to you.
4. Final date for remaining machines to be shipped. We make full payment for all remaining machines 1/2 way point from shipping. (example if its a month away we pay two weeks)
5. I will organize an update message to guests with your add on words.
6. Video of you and XXXXXXXX with machine for guests to see (XXXXXXX will love that as well as the guests).

I think this will work great and achieve all our objectives.

XXXXXX and myself will be coming to IAAPA and possible make a swing visit to Jersey prior or after (whichever works for you) I would love to see the operations as I always enjoy watching the process of new gear coming to Life.

Kind regards,

Note the airfreight of one machine, the offer of payment and Jack's acceptance next day.

#10 6 years ago

Sounds to me like an opportunity to voice disagreements with Bumper in person.......just sayin

Quoted from Noodlebox:XXXXXX and myself will be coming to IAAPA and possible make a swing visit to Jersey prior or after (whichever works for you) I would love to see the operations as I always enjoy watching the process of new gear coming to Life.

Kind regards,

-4
#11 6 years ago

Wayne, you only have Jack's word on things. That word is evidently worthless.

If Jack says you are meant to hold the prototype, why did he sell it to Bumper? Why did Jack collect $50,000 as payment for the prototype plus full payment on two dozen other machines, machines that were never delivered even now 9 months later?

For the record, the prototype machine was sold to new Bumper as part of the equipment, parts and stock of old Bumper.

New Bumper had clear title to it and new Bumper sold it.

-2
#12 6 years ago
Quoted from RWH:

Sounds to me like an opportunity to voice disagreements with Bumper in person.......just sayin

Yes, it would be, except that conversation was held in 2012...

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Wayne, you only have Jack's word on things. That word is evidently worthless.
If Jack says you are meant to hold the prototype, why did he sell it to Bumper? Why did Jack collect $50,000 as payment for the prototype plus full payment on two dozen other machines, machines that were never delivered even now 9 months later?
For the record, the prototype machine was sold to new Bumper as part of the equipment, parts and stock of old Bumper.
New Bumper had clear title to it and new Bumper sold it.

When's MM going to BR built!?

-3
#14 6 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

When's MM going to BR built!?

Apparently Wayne likes to be associated with machines that never get delivered.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Wayne, you only have Jack's word on things. That word is evidently worthless.
If Jack says you are meant to hold the prototype, why did he sell it to Bumper? Why did Jack collect $50,000 as payment for the prototype plus full payment on two dozen other machines, machines that were never delivered even now 9 months later?
For the record, the prototype machine was sold to new Bumper as part of the equipment, parts and stock of old Bumper.
New Bumper had clear title to it and new Bumper sold it.

Hang on, on the phone today you couldn't confirm if WOZ buyers money wasnt used to buy the demo game, well was it? If it was then you have just sold something that doesn't belong to Bumper 3. Looks like you just admitted that anyway by saying it was included in the 50k paid to Jack. Show me the bank statements showing payment for the demo game from any other account aside from Cheralo or Bellhill.

#16 6 years ago

You guys need to get a room.......

-2
#17 6 years ago

The liquidator has the bank account records for Old Bumper's bank transactions. You have his contact details.

#18 6 years ago

You might have paid the air freight and gave Jack 50k towards your order but you don't own the Prototype.

From: Robert Farrell <robert@bumper.com.au>
Date: September 2, 2013, 7:03:19 AM EDT

The prototype can be ready for shipping by this Thursday-just have your shipping company talk to my guys at shipping@bumper.com.au and they will put it on a pallet and secure it properly for shipping.

I have 1500 of these Jamie and i'm here all week

#19 6 years ago

Who is the liquidator ?
Has the liquidator in any way have any previous conversations with Noodlebox or anyone else at Bumper (1,2,3)..
Is, or has the liquidator, been associated or befriended ANY of the people involved in bumper 1,2,3 ?

-2
#20 6 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I have 1500 of these Jamie and i'm here all week

En garde. Did you ask Jack if he minds if the truth comes out?

-3
#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

You might have paid the air freight and gave Jack 50k towards your order but you don't own the Prototype.
From: Robert Farrell <robert@bumper.com.au>
Date: September 2, 2013, 7:03:19 AM EDT
The prototype can be ready for shipping by this Thursday-just have your shipping company talk to my guys at shipping@bumper.com.au and they will put it on a pallet and secure it properly for shipping.
I have 1500 of these Jamie and i'm here all week

Show at least a little class Wayne, don't publish other people's email addresses.

Correct, Robert DID call it a prototype.

Unfortunately for Jack, the promised machine never shipped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, the irony.

#22 6 years ago

Why is there a ton of recent emails from Rob getting the prototype ready to ship back to Jack in the last 2 weeks, for you to then sell it?

Face it Jamie you are a discrace to yourself, your Country and, did i forget Mensa?

And you sold a game that has no support and unable to be updated.

#23 6 years ago

I forgot, so what is happenning with the $9k you received for the game you claim you paid for?

Giving it to Jack or a WOZ customer you owe money to?

Or stealing it away from the customers you owe money to i guess as well.

Another Mensa Moment

-3
#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Why is there a ton of recent emails from Rob getting the prototype ready to ship back to Jack in the last 2 weeks, for you to then sell it?
And you sold a game that has no support and unable to be updated.

We had legal advice that we could sell it. So we did.

This was the only machine Jack ever shipped as promised.

Jack did well, he flogged one machine and picked up $50,000, then reneged on the promise to deliver the rest of the order.

As for the update, what can I say, you are only limited by your imagination...

#25 6 years ago

so what is happenning with the $9k you received for the game you claim you paid for?

Giving it to Jack or a WOZ customer you owe money to?

Or stealing it away from the customers you owe money to i guess as well.

#26 6 years ago

Original Bumper obatins prototype game from JJP, but doesn't own it (that email does not in any way say that any part of the 50k was going towards paying to own the prototype).

Original Bumper is sold to new owners.

Original Bumper dissolves and transfers "something" to New Bumper.

New Bumper obtains WOZ prototype game. Plans to ship it back to JJP.

New Bumper realizes JJP doesn't want to do business with them any longer, decides to sell WOZ prototype for quick cash before it can be picked up for return to manufacturer.

New Bumper says it's legally entitled to do so.

Now, the $9,000 question is, whether they actually were actually legally entitied to do this. Unless Old Bumper's records show clear proof that they paid JJP specifically for that game (which is highly unlikely as all other prototypes are owned by Jack), then they did not legally own it, which means it was not theirs to transfer to New Bumper. And, unless New Bumper shows clear proof that they paid fair market value to Old Bumper for the machine (whether or not they were entitled to do this), they did not "own" it either. I wonder if in light of this news, Old Bumper's creditors could demand repayment of fair market value (ie. the full selling price) for the machine from New Bumper.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Apparently Wayne likes to be associated with machines that never get delivered.

And Bumper has a better track record with WOZ.....give me a break.

#28 6 years ago

I really hope they didn't sell a proto. Those games won't ever be playable past base code. The equivalent of a flipping white wood with lights.

Especially ones back from 2012 with the atom processor and the tornado boards. They can't even handle 1.0 code. I suspect you will have one VERY pissed off customer when they call up asking for support with updating the game and the update fails due to unrecognized hardware.

-3
#29 6 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I forgot, so what is happenning with the $9k you received for the game you claim you paid for?

Don't tell me Jack is now saying he never received $150,000?

Or stealing it away from the customers you owe money to i guess as well.

Jack took the franchise away and along with it the supply relationships with customers and obligation to deliver a machine. After Jack's failure to supply machines, the only thing Jack should expect is a fond farewell.

#30 6 years ago

WTF is going on in the land Down Under? You guys do realize that your posts can be used in a court of law (I assume in AUS)?

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I really hope they didn't sell a proto. Those games won't ever be playable past base code. The equivalent of a flipping white wood with lights.
Especially ones back from 2012 with the atom processor and the tornado boards. They can't even handle 1.0 code. I suspect you will have one VERY pissed off customer when they call up asking for support with updating the game and the update fails due to unrecognized hardware.

The real question Alex, is can the old prototype be retrofitted with the new board sets to make it function properly and take upgrades without too much effort?

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Don't tell me Jack is now saying he never received $150,000?

Jack took the franchise away and along with it the supply relationships with customers and obligation to deliver a machine. After Jack's failure to supply machines, the only thing Jack should expect is a fond farewell.

But he didn't take our money...YOU DID

#33 6 years ago

Like I said before, noodlebox has zippo integrity of what he says. It seems that every time he says something the integrity meter takes another dip down. Call it a day noodlebox. Know when to quit. It's down right embarrassing to watch.

-2
#34 6 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

And Bumper has a better track record with WOZ.....give me a break.

Bumper weren't the manufacturer.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

The real question Alex, is can the old prototype be retrofitted with the new board sets to make it function properly and take upgrades without too much effort?

It can't easily. Harnesses and whatnot are different. Even the cage is different. The only thing usable from a swap perspective is the monitor and cabinet.

In fact the cabinet would need to be redrilled as the position of the components in the base changed as well to accommodate some of the changes.

-2
#36 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I really hope they didn't sell a proto. Those games won't ever be playable past base code. The equivalent of a flipping white wood with lights.
Especially ones back from 2012 with the atom processor and the tornado boards. They can't even handle 1.0 code. I suspect you will have one VERY pissed off customer when they call up asking for support with updating the game and the update fails due to unrecognized hardware.

Yes that pathway would fail. Obviously that is not the right way to update the machine.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Yes that pathway would fail. Obviously that is not the right way to update the machine.

You are telling me the right way to update it? LOL.

The released way is the only way to update the game. Someone clue this guy in please.

And if you are referring to swapping hard drives that won't work either. The os now does hardware identification to ensure no one messed with the game

You're welcome.

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Yes that pathway would fail. Obviously that is not the right way to update the machine.

You do realize who you're talking to there, right?

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from Sunfox:

You do realize who you're talking to there, right?

I doubt he does lol.

-5
#40 6 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

But he didn't take our money...YOU DID

Del Reiss and Old Bumper took your money Pauloz. I did not. New Bumper did not. I understand that you see Bumper as one entity, but the business had 3 separate owners (all companies) in less than 2 years. The companies are where you go for redress. The business itself is not responsible for what it's company owners did.

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Don't tell me Jack is now saying he never received $150,000

He certainly couldn't say he received the other $250k plus that Bumper received in payment from customers for WOZ pinballs. I don't think that Bumper would be concerned with $9k when there is so much more money missing. It truly is astounding Jamie that you continue to attempt to defend the theft of this money. Seeing as Bumper 2 successfully sued Bumper 1 for the release of the WOZ payments the money most likely went missing as a result of actions of Bumper 2 or Bumper 3 (or both). The GM of Bumper 2 is the owner of Bumper 3. Yet you still attempt to apportion blame to others. $400k plus received by Bumper from customers for WOZ pinballs. $150k paid to JJP for WOZ pinballs. $250k plus stolen. Pretty simple equation really.

#42 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

The liquidator has the bank account records for Old Bumper's bank transactions. You have his contact details.

The liquidator won't enter into anymore discussion with WOZ creditors. An official statement was made by them this week. Apparently he's got to be paid more to spend more time on this case.

-2
#43 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

You are telling me the right way to update it? LOL.
The released way is the only way to update the game. Someone clue this guy in please.
And if you are referring to swapping hard drives that won't work either. The os now does hardware identification to ensure no one messed with the game
You're welcome.

Pinchroma I am not offering technical advice, nor do I need it as we no longer have the machine. I thought that was clear earlier in this thread.

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Pinchroma I am not offering technical advice, nor do I need it as we no longer have the machine. I thought that was clear earlier in this thread.

So you sold an Incomplete, Incorrect game you did not own. Got it.

Whenever the happy new owner calls up for support (and they will) I know where to redirect their anger

-3
#45 6 years ago
Quoted from Andyj965:

He certainly couldn't say he received the other $250k plus that Bumper received in payment from customers for WOZ pinballs. I don't think that Bumper would be concerned with $9k when there is so much more money missing. It truly is astounding Jamie that you continue to attempt to defend the theft of this money. Seeing as Bumper 2 successfully sued Bumper 1 for the release of the WOZ payments the money most likely went missing as a result of actions of Bumper 2 or Bumper 3 (or both). The GM of Bumper 2 is the owner of Bumper 3. Yet you still attempt to apportion blame to others. $400k plus received by Bumper from customers for WOZ pinballs. $150k paid to JJP for WOZ pinballs. $250k plus stolen. Pretty simple equation really.

Your maths is not right. A portion of the 250k income is profit. Don't forget about $200k +/- to collect from part paid machines.

I agree it is not good business practice to spend profit off income that is yet to be collected.

Jack and Wayne seem not to be interested in collecting the part paid funds. Why?

Anything Jack makes for Bumper WOZ customers only carries either a part payment or no more payment. Jack then has to expend money to make machines that don't carry the same cashflow as if he sold a new game to a new buyer.

I think Jack should confess his sins and and transfer 100% of the ill-gotten profits acquired by reselling Bumper's machines to American buyers at higher prices to Bumper's customer order.

-2
#46 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

So you sold an Incomplete, Incorrect game you did not own. Got it.
Whenever the happy new owner calls up for support (and they will) I know where to redirect their anger

No we owned it alright. Jack sold it in exchange for Bumper's agreement to make $50,000 advance payment over and above what had been agreed in the terms of trade. The new owners knew what they were buying and what was ahead of them. We made sure that caveat emptor was understood.

#47 6 years ago

Noodlebox. Please answer my question that I have asked you numerous times on many threads.
I am a WOZ LE purchaser that paid for a WOZ LE MID 2012.
Where is my money now ?
Who has my money ?
Do not just pass over this question as it is obvious that you are here and reading the posts.
The courtesy of answering please. Silence just increases anger which turns into bad things.

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

Your maths is not right. A portion of the 250k income is profit. Don't forget about $200k +/- to collect from part paid machines.

Not that I know the real numbers... but just as an example:

79 * $6000 = $474,000 wholesale cost - $150,000 paid to JJP = $324,000 outstanding wholesale debt.

79 * $8500 avg = $671,500 retail - $150,000 paid to JJP - $200,000 unpaid = $321,500 of customer's money still gone missing. Until you deliver a product, you do not own the profit.

Quoted from Noodlebox:

No we owned it alright. Jack sold it in exchange for Bumper's agreement to make $50,000 advance payment over and above what had been agreed in the terms of trade.

If the email quoted above is the supposed proof of this (and it must be, because you posted it to convince us of this), then... well, good luck.

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

No we owned it alright. Jack sold it in exchange for Bumper's agreement to make $50,000 advance payment over and above what had been agreed in the terms of trade. The new owners knew what they were buying and what was ahead of them. We made sure that caveat emptor was understood.

I doubt that. No one would buy that machine. It's not usable or serviceable or supported.

#50 6 years ago

Noodlebox, Bumper 1,2,3 and all the C%^$S responsible.

Theft

Theft is intentionally taking something in someone else’s possession that does not belong to you, and that you do not intend to give back.

Theft-related offences include:

obtaining by deception
burglary (entering someone else’s land or property intending to steal something, damage property or assault someone)
robbery/armed robbery
going equipped to steal
handling stolen goods
receiving stolen goods.

Joyriding (stealing a car to drive around in) is theft, even if you intend to return the car. Stealing from a shop (shoplifting) is also theft.

You can also be charged with theft if you happen to find something that is not yours and you keep it without trying to find the owner.
What the prosecution has to prove

If you are charged with theft the prosecution will have to prove that you:

acted dishonestly when taking the property
did not own the property
were not planning to return it to the owner.

Penalties and compensation orders

Theft and property damage offences carry penalties of imprisonment, fines or both. You may receive a penalty that you serve in the community, such as community-based orders or intensive correction orders.

Charges are usually heard in the Magistrates’ Court, unless the value of goods/property is more than $100,000 or there are other, more serious charges as well.

If a court finds you guilty it can make an order for you to return stolen possessions or pay for the property that was sold, lost or damaged (this is known as ‘restitution’).
On-the-spot fines for shoplifting

Police have the option to issue an on-the-spot fine if they believe you have committed a shoplifting offence and:

the value of the stolen goods is less than $600
it is your first shoplifting offence and a ‘one-off’ offence
you have made restitution, if it is required by the shop-owner
the offence did not occur at your workplace.

The fine for these offences is two penalty units. Payment of the fine will not be seen as admission of guilt and no conviction will be recorded.

If you do not pay the fine or take other action by the due date it may end up costing you more money. See Options for dealing with fines.

Note: The option to issue a fine is under a trail which is due to end on 1 July 2014.

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