And I was correct. JJ does not return deposits. JJ resells the machine and returns the dough because he just onsold it for more money.

That is NOT the same as paying out a full refund on a deposit when asked, without tying it to a machine resale.

JJ has provided competition to a stale industry, more power to him. He put his distributors in difficult positions all around the world by over-promising and under-delivering.

Your comments appear like blind defence of a countryman who has messed up forecasting his delivery times and the complexity of what he was trying to make. I don't have anything against Americans, only nongs who post without checking facts.

I'll turn 'em on, and you can turn them off.

Zinger score, Noodlebox 3, Ballypinball 0.

nongs?????

That's me for the night, see y'all.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nong

Clearly option 1 is to be used.

Do you realize how utterly stupid that comment is? It really just keeps making you look even more silly to say things like that.

You stated JJP doesn't give refunds. That is a blatant *LIE*, Untruth, Falsehood, etc.

Now you're trying to qualify your statement by saying that he doesn't give people back the exact same monies that they gave him in the first place?!?!

Geez, that has got to be one of the most inane comments I've read on Pinside in a long time and trust me, there have been plenty of posts in that category.

WHY WOULD ANYONE CARE?!?!?!?!?!? Do you think businesses take deposits from people in cash only, stick a PostIt on their pile of cash with their name on it and then set that pile in a vault somewhere?!?!? Just in case they have to give it back? Oi vey......

It's becoming very, very clear that you don't have a clue how businesses operate.

Not a refund as the law sees it, refunds are to be unencumbered, JJs are not.

GaryMartin
You have no idea about Australian laws that govern deposits, lay-bys (lay-aways) and refunds, and it appears you don't know how JJ is dealing with things. All you have seen is the spin put on it.

Why would anyone care? Because it's the difference between being seen to be doing the right thing and not. JJ is a salesman.

Call me stoopid one more time and I'll have to apply for US citizenship.

Okay, no problem. "Stupid".

Question #1, who is making the Wizard of Oz Pinball Machine?

Question #2. *WHAT COUNTRY* is that company in?

Question #3. If you *purchase* something from that Company, what countries conventions and Laws apply to that purchase? IE, if someone in Australia buys something direct from said company.

Your statements were false, untrue, lies. JJP has refunded anyone that preordered directly with them and then requested a refund from said pre-order on any machine they make, WOZ or TH.

The acts of unscrupulous businesmen in Australia are their's and their's alone, not JJPs.

You know what, I'm tired of trying to have a battle of wits with an obviously unarmed opponent. I'm dropping you on the Ignore list.

I do feel really bad for any Aussies that got screwed over by this bunch of weasles involved with Bumper Amusements in any shape or form.

EDIT: Ban vote issued for name calling/attacking each other. Ask questions but keep it civil.

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Ban vote issue for name calling/personal attack, keep it civil please.}

Hmmm, a baseball fan? Three strikes (your three empty posts) and you out yourself.

EDIT: Ban vote issued for attacking other Pinsiders to this point. Keep it civil.

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Ban vote issued}

At least they get there 100% money back, and not having to lose $1200.
Oww crap you're also getting interest on the prepaid WOZ too.
Not bad.

LOL, this thread is like a couple of drunks fighting over who's sports team is better at an Outback Steakhouse bar

Im pretty sure that scene would make more sense than this one.

Sure, buttered popcorn with salt........mmmmm

They all know that the west coast eagles are the better sports team.......

what are you smoking???? JJ refunds 100% of what was paid. where do you get that first you have to wait for him to resell it for more? that's laughable.

first there are people waiting in line for someone to drop out. 2nd do you think he should refund more then was deposited? that makes sense(not). or should he not resell it at all.

From Jack on July 27, 2013.

"Well, I have a distributor in Australia. He ordered 76 ECLEWOZ games in March of 2011. Since then he advanced us $150,000 on a $456,000 order. I sent him 4 games last week and next week probably another 7.

Why should he be rewarded for not paying us when he collected money from his customers.

I can sell those games now for....well on eBay apparently for $9400 each. Who is he to speculate and hedge on my back?"

Based on what info I can find, JJP is a US company. They sold 76 machines for $6,000 each to a distributor. That distributor has paid for 25 of those machines. JJP is shipping machines and is expecting payment that is overdue. I would not expect more than 25 pins to head that way without more money.

We do not know why the payments are not getting sent and only the owner of the distributing company can answer that. Anything else is speculation.

I am not even going to start on how 11 games are headed for a March 2011 order. That is a different thread.

It is also quite interesting that Noodle says Bumper was looking out for the interests of their customers by not sending full payment and insisting that payment of the balance was to be made upon shipment of the machine.

So..... why didn't they really look out for their customers and only collect the deposit to hold the machines? They say the money went into a 'trust' account so there was no real need to collect it. My favourite and safest trust account is my own bank account!!!

The risk customers took was assuming Bumper would have the money held in trust (and they may? - we just don't have anything more than the assurances of a phoenix company that has risen from the ashes of a liquidated company). Many believe the better risk would have been to allow Jack at JJP to hold their money.

They should of ordered direct of jjp, yep would of had to pay shipping and customs but they would be sitting back with a woz.......not there fault though that they are going to get screwed

Someone pass me the popcorn!!!

im Bill Gates

Wow, a ban vote for calling a Duck a Duck. Looks like one, smells like one, quacks like one, must *be* one.

I apologize for calling this Duck person stupid. Instead I will just continue to ignore him and his Duck comments.

Or popcorn

A little OT but I wanted to answer this for everybody that wonders.
You made your point without the name calling really well. If he had not reacted to it I may have let it go, but that is the stuff we don't want, negative crap just builds and we know how that ends up. We are going to try and be more strict on negativity while still trying to let conversations go on.

It has been pretty good so far, a little tense from a few a times, but I think a lot of good info all around.

What's that about sexual innuendo again?

Well, Jack's not exactly "anonymous". But here's a question: I assume that most Australian WOZ pre-orderers have paid Bumper in full for their machines. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if paying JJP all that money is a bad idea because it, in part, equates a "free loan", then what's the benefit to customers to give Bumper that same free loan, versus JJP, or even holding onto it themselves?

Hopefully Bumper converted their funds to USD long ago, since AUD/USD has gone from a peak of $1.10 in 2011 to $0.90 now (so at $6500 USD, WOZ has gone from $5910 AUD to $7220 AUD).

BallyPinball and Noodlebox, if all you're gonna do is throw stones at each other I think you are better of using the PM system. I'm contemplating closing this mess, so this is my final warning to keep this discussion civil and stop attacking each other.

Think they may have shat the money bed

It wouldn't surprise me if they turn out to be husband and wife.

Well said Robin, let them PM themselves stupid.

Protip: No one is going to believe a word of what you day after that statement.

no he meant day.....haha

Yeah!!!!!

(...sez the guy that had to Google "pejorative").

I want what Noodlebox is smoking! It's got to be killing brain cells...

well this thread has slowed down so I expect it to fire up again come Monday

If none of the creditor's go to the meeting on monday and put pressure on the liquidator then it's going to be businesses as usual for Bumper.

They claim it's a new company but still continue their old practices.

Does "Chopper" Read have a deposit on a WOZ?

Uncle chop chop

haha......

So Monday lets her some facts not speculation. Keep up the civil thread guys

um....Welcome to Pinside.

......snap